hi, had a l5 s1 prolapse disc last year. had discetomy, been told not to run and any lifting . so anyone guys and girls out there who got back to doing what they love? i want to start kiting obviuosly slowly at first, just want any advice basically , like is there any device that can protect back etcetc and what exercises i can do to make back stronger , thanks loads if anyone has any helpful hints,

Hi There,

I ruptured the stuff between my discs over 16 yrs ago. When it happened I thought I would never do a rotation again. The first years after op. were all about being very careful but doing some given excersises like laying face first on floor putting up left hand and right foot...real easy to start, also laying on your back knees bent and moving up you pelvis on the exhale, holding and breathing normally, then coming down on exhale...feeling gravity work on you, it must be natural...no plomping.

Over time you will find that you can do more and more...it is all about not forcing anything.., stretching is very good....try pilates, but at 1/3 of the speed they teach....focus on how gravity works, can be meditative also.

Since 10 years I have been playing softball once a week, golf once a month at least, and kite almost every day. When it hurts you must stop and reflect on what you did wrong.....stay away from spinal compressions, esp. with wieght. Always focus on posture!

Hope this helps,

Nick

Disclaimer, this works for me and I am not qualified.

rehab rehab rehab.

Everyone is different and so get some good advice from both a physio and a chiro - they do different things!!!

Physio is about strengthening and rehab

Chiro is about good nerve function - both are extremely important.

Alot of people think that once the surgery is done they are fixed - WRONG. Ganzogirl had the right advice!

It takes alot of investment to get yourself strong again - both in the body and also in the mind - it takes time for you to trust your body again.

So as I said, make sure you get some good specific advice from people you know are good.

Cheers,

jans

I have L5-S1 problems as well. There are many things I avoid doing but kitesurfing does not present a problem.

As others have already pointed out, everyone is different, however for what it's worth, in my journey with my lower back I've found a combination of pilates and yoga has increased my core strength and flexibility to no end. I now swear by them and practice daily.

pilates - best thing I ever did for my back.

I too have ruptured the disc, between the L4 and L5 vertabrae. On workcover now, getting physio everyday and doing one hour of work a day. The best treatment is traction, I actually fell asleep under traction this afternoon and felt very good afterwards.

My right foot is partially paralysed. It happened about a month ago and I'm seeing a neurosurgeon tomorrow. I was so depressed a few weeks ago, all out of shape and looked terrible (well more terrible than usual) when looking at myself in the mirror. Since then I've straightened out but the right foot has little strength and movement.

I'm windsurfing, not kiting but imagine once you are hooked you are using similar muscles and movements. I hope I can be back on the water before the end of the year but we will see. This will mean a career change for me but that will work out for the better anyway, more holidays and less work.

I have to work on my posture but again windsurfing and kiting seem to encourage good posture as you are counterbalancing the force of the wind with your harness.

Hi all

I ruptured and tore my L5S1 disc last July. Scans revealed the disc protruded 7mm into my sciatic nerve. My sciatica was pretty severe and I had numbness on my foot and didn't have any reflexes in my leg. I could hardly move my leg and it took me five minutes to even contemplate getting in and out of the car. My doctor told me I wouldn't be able to think about kiting for two years at least. There were some pretty dark days upon hearing this. Believe it or not I didn't feel any pain when I injured myself and just went to the doctors thinking I had a strained muscle (tight hamstring). The pain intensified in the next couple of days after my injury.

After a pretty intensive rehab (physio, extension exercises, walking in the pool, swimming, hydrotherapy, light gym work, cycling) consultations with the neurosurgeon and sticking to all of the exercises and advice from the doctors and physiotherapist the herniation just shows up as a small bulge on the scans now and there is no irratation of the nerve anymore. My back is pain free and my flexability is just about back to normal. It took a long time and I didn't think the pain in my leg would ever go away. It took about six months to start feeling really good. I will have to exercise for the rest of my life and keep my core muscles strong but this isn't a bad thing.

The neuro has given me the all clear and said kitesurfing is no problem, just let my body be a guide. Being through all of this I was pretty hesitant in pushing myself but now I have got confidence back in my back I couldn't be happier. I have been for a couple of kites and I have pulled up no problems. No massive boosts just yet, just some cruises along the coast. A couple of people I know have had similar injuries, one needing an operation and they have both said kiting is no problems. They said it actually helps. Spewing I have sold half of my gear. (Hows the hammer going Marno? Doh!)

So keep positive and stick to your rehab 100% and you'll be back out there sooner than you know it.

Dpe said...

Hello tigerlilly, I feel your pain....

...The orthopedic surgeon that I was referred to said that with age the problem would lessen because the discs would toughen and give more support. This seems to be opposit to what you would normally think to be the case, but I am forty years of age and my injury is better now than it ever has been, so maybe he is right. He also stated that chiropractors and the like are a waste of time and money and it is the work you do yourself that will really make a difference...

Your orthopod was right in saying that the work that you do on your own is paramount, and that the discs dehydrate or dessicate with age but unfortunately your orthopod was misinformed about chiropractic.

There have been numerous studies not only looking at the effectiveness of chiropractic but also the time and cost effectiveness when it comes to aiding the body in the healing process - much of the research looks at low back pain.

Two landmark investigations were the Manga report, which was carried out on request of the Canadian government by an independent panel of experts and the other was the New Zealand government inquiry into Chiropractic - both found that Chiropractic was in fact the most cost effective, time effective and efficacious (ie that it works) approach to low back pain out there.

Unfortunately most people who go down the route of spinal surgery only get moderate relief for up to 2 years at which time they are often worse off than before the surgery... there are still huge debates going on in the medical profession about the effectiveness of spinal surgery and whether in fact it should be done at all!

Just google these two independent studies and see for yourself. :)

Ultimately it comes down to aiding the body heal and stregthen - so whatever it takes!!!

Honestly, I would want someone who knew a great deal about the body and my body in particular to advise me on what I should be doing at differing times in my healing process - you have to remember that personal trainers and pilates instructors (unless they are clinical pilates instructors that are also physios) don't have much training!!!

So get some good advice first!

Hope that helps.

pharro said...

Hey Tigerlilly
I feel for you and the others who have made comment on this topic.
I had a prolapsed C5/6 (at base of neck) about 6 years ago from a snowboarding injury.
I had no idea what Id done and actually thought Id broke my arm coz they were the nerves that were subsequently ruptured by the disc. (Also caused some freaky involuntary moving of my fingers.)
I opted not to have surgery at the last minute and since then it has more or less gone into remission, but it still niggles me from time to time.
Since doing it Ive been back snowboarding, surfing, wakeboarding and now kiting and so far its been without incident. However Ive hurt it several times by simply looking up which has required several days off work and a dose of bloody strong anti inflammatorys.
The spines a pretty complex thing and you need to look after it, but that doesn't mean you can't still do the back breaking sports you love. You just need to be aware of it all the time and listen to your body. If it doesn't feel right on a particular day, bite the bullet and rest it for another day.
As for things to protect it, I have a 'shell' that I wear when I snowboard which is basically like a protective plastic housing that runs the length of your spine. (Worn like a backpack under clothes. Dunno if it would help to wear when kiting coz it mainly protects against impact and your landing on water, not snow(ice) but check out snowboard/ski shops if your interested.
Hope your up riding soon!

Hey pharro,

Had a very similar injury, ruptured the C5/C6 disk in my neck, it went just after I started kiting back in 2004. The injury was initially caused from playing rugby. I felt it starting to go for about 2 months before it ruptured, had the same most intense pains down my arm, was in hospital for a week on pain relief. Was told by the doctor I could do one of three things, get it fused, nothing or get an artificial disk inserted. I wasn’t keen on the fusion and the artificial disk procedure was only just starting to be performed in Australia and was classed as experimental, so I elected to do nothing.

The injury settled down for a while, but started to flare up again in 2007. I went back to the same doctor to see what my options were, he said I could get in fused but the C4/C5 disk was on its way out as well and likely go soon after fusion because of the extra stress put on it. He said that artificial disk replacements were now a common procedure and he had performed several already. So I elected to have the artificial disks put in C4/C5 and C5/C6.

I had the procedure perform in Jan 07 and was back kiting in just over one month later. Nearly all the pain has gone from my arm. I have even played a game of rugby and been for a ride in a jet aircraft pulling 7g (don’t tell my doctor), with no side effects.
The only thing I still feel is slight muscle cramping in my left arm, but that is most likely from nerve damage from the initial injury that may go away with time.

I have read that they now can replace just about most disks in your spine (maybe not the top C’s). But all procedures are via the front of your body and some can be very complicated just to get too.

Hope this gives hope to those who suffer from similar injuries.

Hammerhead
Cheers for the info. I nearly had the fusion type surgery you mentioned and Im so glad now that I didn't. I too was worried about it causing strain on the other discs and was told they wouldn't be too far away from needing the same because of some arthritis in my spine.
For now its managable but I know one day it will go badly again and thats when I'll need a more permenant fix. Good to hear about the artificial discs and that may be a path I will take in the future. It seems to be working well for you.
A month recovery till back out kiting is great to hear!
Hopefully by the time I need it the price won't be as extortionate as the fusion was when I first enquired.
$10,000 - Insurance won't cover it!
(Do you remember what it cost you?)
Good kiting to ya!

Hey Doc Jan, cheers for the reply

Just before my op I read alot of stories on the net that scared the hell out of me re discectomy's, unfortunatley my surgery was an emergency for the very reasons you mentioned, pretty much all my disc in L4/L5 had slipped, my leg was numb, foot dropped the pain was unbarable and I ran a very high risk of losing bladder control It all happened very suddenly in the space of a week.

Prior to the more serious symptoms, I had back problems since a heavy fall on a sheet of ice, the treatment I sought wasn't helping but unfortunately I never questioned the treatment and the professional kept playing down my symptoms, stupidly on my behalf I only sought a second opinion months later when my foot became numb and dropped in my first session with the pyhsio, that was 1 week before I was taken to hospital.

I did rehab ok after but I guess my biggest error is not questioning my treatment prior to the prolapse and really listening to my body, when clearly weight training and excerise was making the pain worse. I could have potential avoided surgery if I had seeked a second opinion sooner

I have heard a lot of people mention they have had discs fused? My never was, my surgeon said that scare tissue will fill the space where my disc was and there was no need to fuse?? Not sure if this had an impact on my recovery?

Unbelievable!
My neck hasn't been too bad for ages and all of a sudden, not long after posting on the subject its playing up again.
Spewin coz its awesome conditions in Perth this arvo and I was meant to demo a new directional today.
My symptoms aren't too bad at the moment, my neck itself doesn't actually hurt, but Im getting that familiar tingling feeling down my arms and legs and that 'not quite right' feeling. Was a bloody hard decision not to go but decided to give it a miss today, rather than make it worse and be out for longer. (I re-read my own advice and though I didn't want to be a hippocrit I didn't really wanna hear it either!)

Foosh you mentioned that Chiro helped you.
Ive always been sceptical about seeing a Chiro for fear of them making it worse through manipulation. Can u describe (basically) what it is they did/do to help you with your injury. Id really like to put surgery off for as long as possible and figure its not gonna go away on its own and I better start lookin at some form of treatment. (don't wanna miss too many more days kiting)
Also have you (or anyone) got any tips on which drugs, creams, exercises, remedies etc they find most beneficial when things start acting up.

Doc Jans your info in last post was great! Will be trying the EPA/DHA for the inflammation. (Though I don't know what it is yet. Is it a drug/supplement or is it in the fish oil you mentioned? If in fish oil is it best to eat fish or take a fish oil supplement?)

All advice is appreciated. Wind lookin good for Wed and gotta be right by then or I will start to develop some serious withdrawl symptoms that will make my neck look like nothing!

Some seriously good & well meaning advice here. Good on you all.
My 20 year old war wound is at L2 so much higher than yours. I had chiro for a couple of years before I could rely on it for anything with load or strain. But all good for a long time now with only a few very specific no go activities - like shovelling & splitting wood but everything else no problem at all. I do have a set of physio exercises I do religiously (and I dont mean every Sunday ) for core & back strength but imo (& have heard the same from a lot of others) that you do need to let your body tell you whats what. Or more particularly in my case whats not.
For kiting Ive found the waist harness is total no go for me. Cant even go for one tack without seriously painful aggravation @ L2. Almost as bad with some high support styled seats. But with the low cut & low load styles - like the girls North & Dakine Tempest I have no back soreness at all, ever from kiting (praise the lord for that one)

My 2cs is dont give up on kiting till you have tried every harness out there. If your injury proves to be a problem there may just be a harness that avoids it.
And surrounding muscle strength - thats essential.

After getting treatment from this excellent Osteopath and doing the exercises he suggested had major improvement in flexibility and pain relief from old motorcycle crash injury to my L1/L2/L3 vertebra (T7/T8 too) crush fractures, narrowed/deformed disc spaces.

http://www.osteopath.com.au/exercises.htm

Then at his suggestion and after talking to uncle rick, decided to invest in some specific back strengthening machinery. I purchased these 2 things, and now I can use a waist harness and am almost pain free for most activities.
Amazing results.

www.backtrainer.com/Roman-Chair-Hyperextension-45-degree-Cap-Barbell.html

And

workoutworld.com.au/store/benches-&-strength-equipment/avanti-4-way-towerstand.html

During summer have not had to use the machines much, used them daily throughout winter last year, started with just 10 reps per day, approx 8 different exercises aimed at core strengthening, combined with daily stretching focused on core and legs.

Also have been taking Glucosamine Hydrochloride and Chondroitin Sulphate/MSM ( Methylsulfonylmethane) powder, true strength formula.
www.glucosamine.com.au/
Pretorious band is what I use and swear by
www.pretoriusvitamins.com.au/vitamin.asp?productID=141

Getting rid of any excess weight is also important, keeping fit, walking and cycle riding are easy for anyone to do for 30 mins a day.

Surgery should be a last resort, and based only on expert advice from an experienced spinal specialist surgeon.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

doc jans said...

Foosh - great advice!

That is exactly what I would do - you may have had the suspicion that I am a chiropractor

Trust a chiropractor to refer to himself as a doctor! Next we'll have some natureopath or nutrimetics salespeople on her calling themselves doctor sally and teling you to shove some eye of newt up your arse.


good luck with the back.. If exercise / activity is the key then most people would likely be more active doing something they enjoy like kiting than doing laps of a pool.

Well Im convinced.
Thanks to everyone for the advice. I'm making a Chiro appointment first thing Mon morning. Will try and see 'Simon' at Karrinyup who you recommended Fooosh. (Only round the corner from me and he seems to have helped you with the same problem.)
CJ12 I didn't mean any disrespect to Chiro's and appreciate they know what they are doing. My comment about them 'making it worse' is simply from my lack of knowledge on the subject.
Tigerlilly thanks for posting such a great topic. Sorry for taking things a little off track from your original post, but this has all certainly helped me out. Hope you got what you needed from it too.
Off now to buy some fish!