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eppo said..

bigtone667 said..

eppo said...
Had my second foil session today. I feel like a complete retard out there. Fckn carnage.

First few weeks are the hardest part..... just remember, front foot pressure, more front foot pressure, and think of your centre of gravity being 1m below the water.

Thanks Big T. But honestly the only thinking I'm doing right now is 'why won't this god damn foilboard do what it's told!!!'

Anyhow funny story, got in a bit of a raging rant at one stage, just laying there in a boat channel swearing and shouting at the top of my lungs at nothing in particular...like for a good half a minute. Some lads cruised by in a boat and just pissed themselves laughing. Must have been a funny sight to hear and see.

Even I laughed at myself in the end. Got back on the board for yet another stupendous wipeout.

want something even funnier or at least bizarre. Even with all the crashes I still found myself so far upwind I was seriously wondering how the fck I could get back to the launch beach. Then I discovered going toeside and horrendously crashing are really good at getting back....bahahababababB

Yes its a frustrating and humbling experience. So much muscle memory that needs to be retrained!

Another tip is to try and keep your c of g in line with the mast. IE don't lean way from the board either side of the mast like you would when powered on a TT. That also leads to instant smack down.

An easy way to go down wind is to stay on the surface. Don't even try to foil. Just lean forward and splash your way back to launch. Then if you get little flights cool, but focus on getting the board back on the water. Fly the kite like you would riding down the line on a wave. Works a treat.

The best thing that worked for me is to relax and only do very small changes in body position. Its that fast changes that lead to instant smack down.

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Kamikuza said..
If you're REALLY in a hurry to get downwind . . . flip the board upside down, tuck it under your arm, then loop the kite through the power zone ;)

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eppo said..

bigtone667 said..

eppo said...
Had my second foil session today. I feel like a complete retard out there. Fckn carnage.

First few weeks are the hardest part..... just remember, front foot pressure, more front foot pressure, and think of your centre of gravity being 1m below the water.

Thanks Big T. But honestly the only thinking I'm doing right now is 'why won't this god damn foilboard do what it's told!!!'

Anyhow funny story, got in a bit of a raging rant at one stage, just laying there in a boat channel swearing and shouting at the top of my lungs at nothing in particular...like for a good half a minute. Some lads cruised by in a boat and just pissed themselves laughing. Must have been a funny sight to hear and see.

Even I laughed at myself in the end. Got back on the board for yet another stupendous wipeout.

want something even funnier or at least bizarre. Even with all the crashes I still found myself so far upwind I was seriously wondering how the fck I could get back to the launch beach. Then I discovered going toeside and horrendously crashing are really good at getting back....bahahababababB

One of my colleagues is also learning and has a bad case of tourettes ..... It is so funny to listen too. Half the lake can hear this guy going off.

We might as well hijack this thread and turn it to good instead of evil.

Foils always do what you tell them, it's just that you might not have meant what you said. The smallest inappropriate input to the board is transferred to the foil and amplified and the foil reacts accordingly. The trick is to work out what inputs to make, and how to make them.

As a starter, move your back foot out of the strap and well forward of the mast. You can practice moving it back and forth as you get comfortable riding.

If you get too far upwind (which is quite common), and can't get yourself back downwind (also quite common), just lie on your board and drag slowly back to where you want to go. You get to rest. You get to go where you want, rather than where the board is taking you. And with a bit of practice you can get some speed up and pop up and down on the foil on your guts. It's kind of fun.

yeh gorgo I found an old post of yours talking about while you use the back and front strap to position board in the water to start (which I also found very helpful yesterday) you said take the back foot out and put it in front of the back strap. It's the one thing I'm going to try next.

Must admit I know all you guys have got this 'muscle memory' happening now but at this stage, I'm losing sleep on why I keep breaching the damn foil, cause the movements i'm making are very small indeed. Couldn't make them any smaller..but once she starts to rise and the speed increases, it's a losing game for me to get the foil back to at least half mast, I either breach or do the nose dive dance to oblivion.

Hence the tourettes episodes Big T talks about.

I don't feel all that bad when some person told me last night he got so mad once he punched his board so hard he broke it and had to have surgery...

bahahahahahaah

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eppo said..
yeh gorgo I found an old post of yours talking about while you use the back and front strap to position board in the water to start (which I also found very helpful yesterday) you said take the back foot out and put it in front of the back strap. It's the one thing I'm going to try next.

Must admit I know all you guys have got this 'muscle memory' happening now but at this stage, I'm losing sleep on why I keep breaching the damn foil, cause the movements i'm making are very small indeed. Couldn't make them any smaller..but once she starts to rise and the speed increases, it's a losing game for me to get the foil back to at least half mast, I either breach or do the nose dive dance to oblivion.

Hence the tourettes episodes Big T talks about.

I don't feel all that bad when some person told me last night he got so mad once he punched his board so hard he broke it and had to have surgery...

bahahahahahaah

If you have spent your life riding a TT, you naturally move your weight to your back leg..... and on a foil, that is code for "Launch".
Move your rear foot out of the strap and push it forward. Just concentrate on getting your board up and flat on the water with weight on your front foot.
Then slowly lift the weight off your front foot (don't load your rear leg, just unload your front leg)..... you will start to come SLOWLY, push down on the front foot when you get to high and repeat.

For a bit I thought there was a electronic device pre installed so it could be remotely turned into a mechanical bull with an ejection seat

Go as far forward as you can on the front strap. Ditch the rear strap all together to begin with move your back foot forward untill the rocket ship stops.

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bigtone667 said..

eppo said..
yeh gorgo I found an old post of yours talking about while you use the back and front strap to position board in the water to start (which I also found very helpful yesterday) you said take the back foot out and put it in front of the back strap. It's the one thing I'm going to try next.

Must admit I know all you guys have got this 'muscle memory' happening now but at this stage, I'm losing sleep on why I keep breaching the damn foil, cause the movements i'm making are very small indeed. Couldn't make them any smaller..but once she starts to rise and the speed increases, it's a losing game for me to get the foil back to at least half mast, I either breach or do the nose dive dance to oblivion.

Hence the tourettes episodes Big T talks about.

I don't feel all that bad when some person told me last night he got so mad once he punched his board so hard he broke it and had to have surgery...

bahahahahahaah

If you have spent your life riding a TT, you naturally move your weight to your back leg..... and on a foil, that is code for "Launch".
Move your rear foot out of the strap and push it forward. Just concentrate on getting your board up and flat on the water with weight on your front foot.
Then slowly lift the weight off your front foot (don't load your rear leg, just unload your front leg)..... you will start to come SLOWLY, push down on the front foot when you get to high and repeat.

ah...."Then slowly lift the weight off your front foot (don't load your rear leg, just unload your front leg)"...I have a feeling that is a very important distinction. In my mind I'm thinking right some pressure now on my back leg, rather than just "offload the front foot pressure". The lads who have been helping me (they have been downright awesome) have been telling me this from day dot but it just clicked then.

Hence I also was riding the bronco bucking bull ejection seat or on a submarine trying to nose dive to depths at speed.

...I'm was thinking though, damn this is gonna be good for jumping...

The back strap is really helping me in the actual water before starting...Im gonna keep it I think like Gorgo said then take the back foot out and in front. After all my aim is to cruise the endless ocean we have down here and jump my ass off.

Another way to think (as opposed to add gradual back foot pressure or lift slowly front foot) is to just move your weight slightly from front to back by leaning less forward. Same thing just different way to put it. The trick with foiling is gradual, fine motoric movements. And patience. And don't ride overpowered as this will make the bunny hops worse. And crashes harder. And technique will be crap.

Just loose both straps to start with mate. You can move your feet around freely. You are forced to find that sweet balanced spot ie foot position. And you crash away from your foil and without breaking your ankles. Once up and running and you want to jump or race you can just put them back on.

I find riding strapless more stylish anyway hahaha. That should probably be another thread. Like the useless but entertaining sb straps vs strapless threats every now and then.

If we are into giving advice. Then the best I got was from Nicolas at Zeeko when he said to think more about moving your body centre of gravity rather than focusing on foot pressure.

All good advice. The cool thing is....it will just click and you'll have it.

Not sure how fast you're going, but I recommend super slow to start. As plummet says, just enough to be up and moving with board on the water. Then subtle unweighting of front foot to get up on foil for a moment then back down to flat. Kind of like hopping / pumping on a surfboard.

As for weighting and unweighting. ...think of balancing middle of a seesaw....the slight leg flexes to raise one side or the other.

It also may be way easier on your dominant forward leg to start. (Regular or goofy) Even if means body dragging back to position.

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RAL INN said...
If we are into giving advice. Then the best I got was from Nicolas at Zeeko when he said to think more about moving your body centre of gravity rather than focusing on foot pressure.

That's what I intended to suggest by referring to "leaning" more or slightly less forward.

Also, bend your knees more than you would on a TT.

OK, OK, I'll offer my bit LOLOL...

The advice given about removing the foot off the back strap is valid, very valid... so take notice and practice that.

Here's my bit, this is how I help/teach my mates.. and they are all foiling - the secret to controlling a foilboard is to NOT FOIL !!!

Full beginners..

1 - get up on top the board - no leaning, FLAT
2 - keep it flat ON THE WATER..
3 - take all the power off your kite keeping just enough to stay afloat and move forward, any direction will do.
4 - revisit point number 2 - keep your board on the water. If it starts to lift, immediately de-power/sheet out your kite and smack the nose down back to the surface.
5 - get to the end of your run, stop. Turn the board in the opposite direction and ride back.
6 - do this for an afternoon, 10-15 runs at least.

This is multi purpose design:

a) it will teach you to control the porpoising/bucking bronco manner of your foil by putting the weight forward so your nose drops
b) it will teach you to de-power your ride - keep your kite 11-1.

Do a few runs like this "I must not let it lift".. then, you will notice your (foiling) kite control will get to a stage that if the board starts to lift you will know how to combine front foot pressure with de-power in a manner that you'll find yourself having a few little runs off the water. You know that as soon as it get out of control you can kick it down again.

By the day's end you should be able to ride a few meters. If not, persevere. You will find what works for you..

Does it always work? Well Yes, as long as you have patience to put in the time and learn the NEW methods of control of a NEW sport. The biggest mistake we make, and I was guilty of it too, it to go into it applying what we already know and then get frustrated because it doesn't work. Think of it like a new language: Screaming won't make you better understood to a foreigner, you must learn the new (language) rules I have new foil mates in my area - they listened, they are riders now. It's your choice to 'listen' to a new sport or shout at it.

Happy ridding guys.

Peace up and sweet Seabreezes to us all

Sir V, 'I've got all that' and did that, so good advice. I can ride with the board flat either way for as long as I want...did that first session and yesterday as well.

It's the next step...starting to get up on the foil is where I'm struggling.

I'm either on the water or coming up on the foil way too fast. Can't seem to control a mid mast position...

And for all the 'negative influences'... If I had listened to your kind of comments I'd still be watching from the couch thinking of crap to say to justify my shortcomings.

Grow up guys, accept! Just like the Bodyboarders, Surfers and SUP riders learned to share with Kitesurfers so now you must evolve and learn to share with Foilboarders. Be positive, no one likes an ass. If you can add something good to a discussion please do, if not SHUT THE HELL UP !!! My mother used to say: if you can't say something nice don't say anything.

Can you see how redundant you've become? We have to accept the same way you've been doing the same moves for decades.. and we do, I watch surf and all other water sports with admiration.. but you are allowed to dish crap to someone else? Really? Really really? Don't you realize how you are discrediting your own one-sided position and reflecting badly upon yourselves?

Bitch, please By now you will know I really don't give a toss about what people say, but I always have time to contribute positively and help anyone that needs something from me. My friends know it, you should too.. take a leaf from it, be positive.

Peace up (really) and sweet Seabrezes to us all

(quietly he goes into the garage and gets out the stainless steel umbrella he will need to fend off the knives and forks rain that is surely coming)

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eppo said..
Sir V, 'I've got all that' and did that, so good advice. I can ride with the board flat either way for as long as I want...did that first session and yesterday as well.

It's the next step...starting to get up on the foil is where I'm struggling.

I'm either on the water or coming up on the foil way too fast. Can't seem to control a mid mast position...

Weight Bro.. weight on the front foot. Benz zee knees a bit, ride as slow as possible, sheet the kite out to keep the speed down.

And another thing, stay close to the water.. you don't need to be further up than 6 inches off the surface. I stay close to the surface as I feel it gives more 'contact' with the ocean beneath me, therefore I can judge what I need to do. But I wouldn't worry too much about this bit, it is a bit more advanced.

Just keep plugging at it, you're on the right track. When in doubt NOSE DOWN ..

Peace up


- - I reviewed what you said:

Ok, next step - take pressure off the front foot, ever so softly (knowing you can put it back on at any moment). Your board nose should start to lift.. enjoy the game: up nose 6", down nose. Rinse and repeat.

Also ditch that heavy grunty Rebel monster and at least borrow something smaller lighter ideally more wave oriented 3 stut-ish. Will help keeping is easy and sheet out quickly while still able to steer one handed

Oh, good point RK...

Get this: - 95% of ALL my rides are on my Drifter 5.5m. I'm 73kgs and currently I own 2 kites an 8 and a 5.5.. and I just ordered a 4.5m :)

V

Keep the board flat and simply go a little faster.

Have you seen the balance board video from LF? Another thing to try is standing on the middle of a see saw...

And rather than loading a foot, stands upright and do yoga side lunges, keeping your torso upright. The weight shift is more gradual and stable...

I've sworn bloody murder at the kite, but never tempted fate by abusing the foil...

Use the kite you're most comfortable with and can control without thinking about...

Eppo, speaking from recent experience. And I have the back strap on but only use it to hold and manoeuvre board in water, plus it acts as a guide for placing my foot. Which is in front of it.
Start with the back foot maybe 100mm forward get to a stable speed then relax to let foil lift. Then start to gradually move back foot back 20mm at a time each run or when you feel like it's right.
This will calm down the early foil lifts

Any of you guys seen the new 100 foot Frankenstein yacht entered in the Sydney Hobart, cqs? It has twin hydrofoils!

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RussKraut said..
Also ditch that heavy grunty Rebel monster and at least borrow something smaller lighter ideally more wave oriented 3 stut-ish. Will help keeping is easy and sheet out quickly while still able to steer one handed

yeh just got an 8m 2012 cat, whihc is for my son as well to go with his 6m same kite and vintage.

Thanks for all the advice people, appreciate it.

Ive found my 8m cat incredibly easy to learn on the foil. Can work the **** out of it from 10 knots. I've held it down on the foil in 30 knots..... though that was stupid. 10 to 20 is the good range for learning on the 8m with 13-18 being near perfect. Now i'm foiling constantly and added the back strap I can easily take on up to 25 knots.

When i hook into the chrono for a session i'm like woowa. the aparent wind, lift and board speed make it harder to control the foil. I know the rebel wont be as silly as the chrono. But still a lifty kite that builds aparent fast is going to be a lot harder to control the speed on that the old 3 strut med aspect huge depower lei.

I recon yourl progress heaps faster on the old 8m cat. All you need is enough power to get up on the plane. Once foiling a crap fart of power is all thats required. So if you are underdone that makes it easier.

We also need a foil category in buy & sell. Race Boards just doesn't cut it.

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kiteboy dave said..
We also need a foil category in buy & sell. Race Boards just doesn't cut it.

Well with so many race boards for sale ... WOW you can buy a 2014 model one for $270

We just need to wait for this fad to end and then there will be 100's of foils for sale for less than materials cost.

Then we need to invent a new light wind gimmick maybe a hover board.

Just sold an average condition TT 2010 model for $300 should have asked for more.

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HighzaKite said..

kiteboy dave said..
We also need a foil category in buy & sell. Race Boards just doesn't cut it.

Well with so many race boards for sale ... WOW you can buy a 2014 model one for $270

We just need to wait for this fad to end and then there will be 100's of foils for sale for less than materials cost.

Then we need to invent a new light wind gimmick maybe a hover board.

Just sold an average condition TT 2010 model for $300 should have asked for more.

Good luck with that, it's been growing every year over the last 6 years in Europe and still is. Australia is only getting it now...

Race boards are for racing, foils are for racing, cruising, boosting, wave riding, carving and more. It opens a whole new world of kiting. I reckon it is just the start.

You are probably right about the crappy Liquid Force, Cabrinha and Naish with their outdated Carafino designs from 2005. Those will probably go for cheap in no time when people realise that there is so much better coming from the small brands.