Hi Guys,

What is it with people talking about volume in kitesurf boards? Volume makes absolutely NO difference in a kite surfboard. On a normal paddle surfboard, volume is quite critical as it floats you and determined how far out of the water you sit when paddling for a wave. If you sit higher in the water you paddle faster because less of you is under water, the wave needs less energy to get you onto the plane on take-off.

On a kite surfboard, where you are always planing, the volume is irellevent as the volume is all above the planing surface (bottom) of the board. If anything, excessive volume only makes water starting more difficult as you can't sink the rail to get the board on edge if you use foot straps.

The critical thing on a kite surfboard is planing area, rail shape and rocker. Width in the tail gives early or low speed planing, so makes for holding more speed and not sinking the tail in mushy waves. This will translate to easier linking of turns. Wider boards are better for Perth conditions. Narrow tails only work well when you are more powered up or have big enough waves to use the wave and not rely solely on the wave shape.

A perfect example is the Spleene surfboards that have virtually NO volume due to their snowboard style construction, and they surf brilliantly.

Surfboards made of Polyester resin will develop heel dents, these are not good to have, they are a sign of the core being crushed which weakens the board. There is no doubt that a poly board feels and surfs a tad better than an epoxy board due to the flex, but they are not going to last if you ride hard. An good epoxy board is tough, especially the new North boards as they use cork under foot so the deck can depress and spring back into original shape, this maintains the structural integrity of the core which is the foundation of the strength of the board.

Rant over!





Flame Away!

DM

Volume does make a difference but just not as much as it would surfing, having more volume makes it easier to get up and planing and stay up wind, you can also use less of the kite.

Saying volume makes no difference in a kite specific surfboard is like saying changing fins make no difference to the board.

It all matters,and what blows ur hair back matters most

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ActionSportsWA said..
Hi Guys,

What is it with people talking about volume in kitesurf boards? Volume makes absolutely NO difference in a kite surfboard. On a normal paddle surfboard, volume is quite critical as it floats you and determined how far out of the water you sit when paddling for a wave. If you sit higher in the water you paddle faster because less of you is under water, the wave needs less energy to get you onto the plane on take-off.

On a kite surfboard, where you are always planing, the volume is irellevent as the volume is all above the planing surface (bottom) of the board. If anything, excessive volume only makes water starting more difficult as you can't sink the rail to get the board on edge if you use foot straps.

The critical thing on a kite surfboard is planing area, rail shape and rocker. Width in the tail gives early or low speed planing, so makes for holding more speed and not sinking the tail in mushy waves. This will translate to easier linking of turns. Wider boards are better for Perth conditions. Narrow tails only work well when you are more powered up or have big enough waves to use the wave and not rely solely on the wave shape.

A perfect example is the Spleene surfboards that have virtually NO volume due to their snowboard style construction, and they surf brilliantly.

Surfboards made of Polyester resin will develop heel dents, these are not good to have, they are a sign of the core being crushed which weakens the board. There is no doubt that a poly board feels and surfs a tad better than an epoxy board due to the flex, but they are not going to last if you ride hard. An good epoxy board is tough, especially the new North boards as they use cork under foot so the deck can depress and spring back into original shape, this maintains the structural integrity of the core which is the foundation of the strength of the board.

Rant over!





Flame Away!

DM

Does this mean i can take my sup out?
and your telling me it will perform the same as my surfboard, great news!

I'm going to say that you are mostly correct. But not 100%. Volume makes sweet FA difference when powered but the kite. That you are correct with. Once you are planning with sufficient speed volume is not required

But when you are not powered by the kite then there Is a slight advantage with volume in some instances.

Here's some examples.

* Trying to get out the back in gusty wholy wind. in the lulls the board with volume will float a little longer before sinking.
* When you rip down the line to a point when your kite lines are completely slack on a shallow lazy wave. The board with volume will take you longer on that lazy wave with out the need of powering the kite back up.
* Floaters on white wash. You sink in sooner with a board with less volume.

In saying that. I don't use a board with volume.... I don't care about it because I love the powered feel in the wave.

Haha.
Either troll post or you have been in the sun all day and had a few too many bacardi breezers.

- If you don't have enough volume you bog the rail through turns.
- Too little volume requires more wind to avoid sinking; too much volume and it becomes a skatey cork.
- Heal dents, I love them!
- PU and EPS boards last if you know their limitations and how to ride them (not putting straps on and going boosting).
- Why doesn't a pro surfer use an epoxy pop-out?
- I can break one PU and get another for the same price as a Chinese 'kite surf' pop out.

When Kelly/Jon Jon/Mick are riding composite construction epoxies...
Well maybe thats when I'll take more notice of them (they only surf what works best!).

It's a real shame the retailers and manufactures are pushing this construction.
IMO, currently there is a massive gap when it comes to performance.

Glad you are happy with them though.
lol.

Maybe now is the time to post a 'tophat' video????

Anyone??

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surfingboye said...
Haha.
Either troll post or you have been in the sun all day and had a few too many bacardi breezers.

- If you don't have enough volume you bog the rail through turns.
- Too little volume requires more wind to avoid sinking; too much volume and it becomes a skatey cork.
- Heal dents, I love them!
- PU and EPS boards last if you know their limitations and how to ride them (not putting straps on and going boosting).
- Why doesn't a pro surfer use an epoxy pop-out?
- I can break one PU and get another for the same price as a Chinese 'kite surf' pop out.

When Kelly/Jon Jon/Mick are riding composite construction epoxies...
Well maybe thats when I'll take more notice of them (they only surf what works best!).

It's a real shame the retailers and manufactures are pushing this construction.
IMO, currently there is a massive gap when it comes to performance.

Glad you are happy with them though.
lol.

Errrrm a bit off topic but I'm pretty sure kelly used a few epoxy composite boards in a few ct comps in the past two years and has also just bought into FireWire in a big way.

100% agree Surfingboye. In fact, I would go as far as to say that Kite Surf boards are an after thought for Kite Surf companies and they do not get kite surfing in its most literal sense at all.

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theWaterBoy said..
100% agree Surfingboye. In fact, I would go as far as to say that Kite Surf boards are an after thought for Kite Surf companies and they do not get kite surfing in its most literal sense at all.

In saying that, most surf board manufacturers are yet to get kite surf boards as well and there is a long way to go in kite surf board development.

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surfingboye said..

When Kelly/Jon Jon/Mick are riding composite construction epoxies...
Well maybe thats when I'll take more notice of them (they only surf what works best!).

It's a real shame the retailers and manufactures are pushing this construction.
IMO, currently there is a massive gap when it comes to performance.

Competing pros ride PU boards because that's what they know, have always ridden, and why experiment with stronger compsand shapes when you have a never ending supply of free light weight poly boards at your disposal.

What about free surfers like Craig Ando? And others riding for Firewire etc? You can't write off composite EPS just because the stock kiteboards surf like crap.

Back on topic - I have enjoyed kiting my 5'7 which has enough volume that I can paddle it as a back-up board for surfing, and it surfs great!

Hate to break it to you princess but Kelly/Jon Jon/Mick all ride epoxys. None of you would be able to tell the difference between the same core glassed in PE or Epoxy.

Anyone who RT the OP is a FW. There are those that dont need volume to surf without the kite, you know like real surfing. But don't let that fg statement settle in, you might learn to surf.

Rant ? More like a pimping troll
I'd rather support my local
Shaper any day over Chinese rubbish.
Rant over

BTW Northboards are floaty PiecesofS. Though atleast they last 2 weeks longer than an Airush.

Only bit I didn't get was RT?

Volume has a place in the overall for sure in combo with rocker/outline/rail shape/tail shape/weight of glassing/flex/starpped or unstrapped. I ride about 28LT 2LT under what I surf which is about 30.5LT. Style of riding and which waves will also dictate board preference.. I find if you ride to much volume your board feels boaty at speed and can't bury the rail to wash off speed aswell…To little volume and it becomes power hungrier having to use more kite. So volume is a great additional measurement.

Something tells me perhaps a few Spleene surfboards have gone unsold because they have "virtually no volume".
Having said that I've never ridden or seen a Spleene so can't comment on how they ride. Maybe they do rip.

But yes volume is important in wave kiting and a small variation can make a big difference in feel on the wave depending on how good the rider is. Obviously not as noticeable as when surfing because we have the kite to help us too. Volume is not just about paddling. Similarly to fins, a good rider will notice the difference on a wave, a below-average rider not so much. How a board performs depends on a myriad of other factors, but to discard volume as a factor is not right.

Now when it comes to the difference between PU and Epoxy, I'm solidly in the camp of PU however thats because I kite with the same board I surf with and my shaper Gunther Rohn only makes PU. I know that Epoxy technology has improved immensely and combined with the right shape I'm sure they can rip now. But I've never found one that has the right feel.

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bene313 said..
Competing pros ride PU boards because that's what they know, have always ridden, and why experiment with stronger compsand shapes when you have a never ending supply of free light weight poly boards at your disposal.

The question we all need to ask is "what do I want in a board?".
For me the answer is performance. ie. PU and EPS core boards.
For many others, the answer is longevity.

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kluein said..
Hate to break it to you princess but Kelly/Jon Jon/Mick all ride epoxys. None of you would be able to tell the difference between the same core glassed in PE or Epoxy.

Anyone who RT the OP is a FW. There are those that dont need volume to surf without the kite, you know like real surfing. But don't let that fg statement settle in, you might learn to surf.

Haha, EPS is good.
What I don't like are those heavy, skatey 'kite surf' boards with no flex.
And boards with not enough volume!

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surfingboye said..

bene313 said..
Competing pros ride PU boards because that's what they know, have always ridden, and why experiment with stronger compsand shapes when you have a never ending supply of free light weight poly boards at your disposal.

The question we all need to ask is "what do I want in a board?".
For me the answer is performance. ie. PU and EPS core boards.
For many others, the answer is longevity.

kluein said..
Hate to break it to you princess but Kelly/Jon Jon/Mick all ride epoxys. None of you would be able to tell the difference between the same core glassed in PE or Epoxy.

Anyone who RT the OP is a FW. There are those that dont need volume to surf without the kite, you know like real surfing. But don't let that fg statement settle in, you might learn to surf.

Haha, EPS is good.
What I don't like are those heavy, skatey 'kite surf' boards with no flex.
And boards with not enough volume!

SB do you know if the pro kiters ride stock boards? Or are they light weight custom lookalikes.

I am not sure, how many of the posters have ridden a spleene. I had both the short and (still have the long). I am surprised by the post of OP. I assume it was not Darren. They never sold the Spleene. OP, obviously, never tried to jybe a Spleene. I think Ian Young is still riding spleene, (I got mine from him)... but he never switch / jybe.... it's not easy...
I say if you want to dial a jybe, practice it on the small spleene (short and no volume). I learned on that beast, and when I moved onto a surf board (with volume), I thought I can jybe it even when I watch hotties on the beach. It was just so much easier. Spleene's are great for super powered up wave riding with insane loops and jumps... but they are not for the average wave rider (i.e. me) when it comes down to gusty conditions.
Where Spleene is still attractive to me is that it cuts through chops like knife in butter. It's such an enjoyable ride in Perth chops. Yet when powered up, it rides waves like a surboard... of course, never the choice of disillusioned surfers

Most surfers are going shorter, wider, fatter and flatter. Not to mention a decent amount of volume in the tail.
This is primarily for fatter waves (secondary for paddling) and to help keep speed (or gain speed) in fat waves. Hate to shock you original poster but the fact is onshore waves are often fat (most often unless your on a decent reef). If your not riding with volume in beachies your missing out. (I wont even mention upwind ability and riding a smaller kite). If you dont want your turns to looked forced I think volume is the key.
I think this call is as big as claiming north kiteboards are any good!



Sugarcube 'hybrid fish' on a fat section

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bene313 said..
SB do you know if the pro kiters ride stock boards? Or are they light weight custom lookalikes.

nah bene, no idea.

Looks like the knee is on the mend Jono! Nice form!

I can feel another "tri fin" bing moment coming soon into the SUP and kite board industry. Whom will be it?

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Jonopark said..
Most surfers are going shorter, wider, fatter and flatter. Not to mention a decent amount of volume in the tail.
This is primarily for fatter waves (secondary for paddling) and to help keep speed (or gain speed) in fat waves.

Interesting discussion this . Comment from experienced riders about the design in Sbs which are suited to the sport .

As you know we kite in often sub optimal skinny wind conditions in Darwin . So the problems of enough flotation against performance tend to be exaggerated and the general movement here by the crew is towards the shorter , fatter , flatter boards . Nugget etc - smaller boards here need a lot of wind and dont get much use but great when they do .

These boards allow the kite to perform to its best in our conditions . Any less flotation and width and you are sinking the board on the wave and then killing the kite .
But the stiffness of the the production boards has always felt wrong to me as I progress

The evolution of design for the sport - wave kiting that is - is pretty similar to windsurfing ( where I came from) - their boards started to go from low volume high rocker to shorter , fatter, wider about 10 years ago .

Cheers

Hi Darren

"Surfboards made of Polyester resin will develop heel dents, these are not good to have, they are a sign of the core being crushed which weakens the board. There is no doubt that a poly board feels and surfs a tad better than an epoxy board due to the flex, but they are not going to last if you ride hard. An good epoxy board is tough, especially the new North boards as they use cork under foot so the deck can depress and spring back into original shape, this maintains the structural integrity of the core which is the foundation of the strength of the board."

^^^have to disagree with that statement.

Dents in PU boards dont make them weaker,

Epoxy Sandwich boards can last if you are a "soft " rider, there is almost no strength in the polystyrene core, its all in the Epoxy sandwich skin, and when thats compromised, the boards Fkd.

So its still best to get a PU core board with polyester or even epoxy resin laminate on it even if it dings up and has dents.

Best thing about the snowboard construction wave boards like the Spleen, is that they are very tough, as there is no foam core you will never have the same problems as with regular construction, be it PU or polystyrene, just get used to having very fine rails and no volume

Damn I get angry over threads like this !! What works for one person doesn't always work for another.. I rode pu surfboards for 17 years and have now switched to firewire. To me they feel more responsive a lot more flex which creates more drive . I prefer thruster over quad, futures over fcs and I ride a north whip .. Who cares Im having fun and laying turns
Does that make me wrong ? Keep ripping yeew

Oh yeah and I love my boards like my women , with a bit of volume

Even a PU custom surfboard can be built to not ding.
I have proof of this , my Stone 5'1" kite board was built here in Geraldton in 2007.
Just recently I strapped it to my Best Ts10mtr kite bag and with the fins removed, I put it on a Jetstar flight to Adelaide without even a board bag.
It arrived in Adelaide with me in the oversize pickup area with only a black scuff mark on the bottom.
All good and ready to go. After a week in Adelaide we returned to Geraldton same way and still no damage.
Thanks to Mark at StoneSurf this board has been made almost bulletproof.

Agree there mate I got a 5'10 fish shape by del Rosso at clearwater in 2002 glasses in fins. Still going strong with bugger all wrong just a few pressures. But on the other hand same shaper different board , brand new 6'0 snapped first surf in head high beachies.. Luck of the draw

Dafish the knee is almost perfect! Cold mornings suck though!! Just came back from South and got some decent sized waves (i was riding low volume performance surfboard to hold rail). the west oz down winder is waiting for you mate! Did the 40km session a few weeks ago with upwinder transport and it was sweet! You got to check it out.

Nathe dont get angry mate. I love firewires and currently have the 6.2 taj kite model (its heavy) for my big wave board. Unfortunately i have snapped to many regular firewires to dare try another one kiting (price tag is ridiculous). Love the board when waves have punch but go smaller wider fatter flatter with more tail 90 percent of time due to the slop i kite.

Epoxy can be great (firewires for example) but many feel a little too corky. Especially when they are light weight they tend to bounce a little too much on chop. Which sucks when bottom turning. Thats why weight of a kite board does not bother me too much as it seems to cut though chop better.

Finally i hear the biggest problem people get with the north wam and whip is the sand getting in the bearings of the rollerblades they use to get to the beach. How do you keep the sand out nathe?
jokes