... and maybe I can jump on this one too and ask, what about stretch characteristic?? I would imagine the cheap brands would stretch a bit compared to the name brands! Just guessing!

Hey Dean, how much did you pay?

cheers,

Robbie

the truth said...

dyneema and spectra are the same thing so SSDB

... umm the local boat shop say they are different but maybe they mean the bigger stuff, dunno?

By the way, what does SSDB stand for?

cheers,


Robbie

Looks the same as north lines, still manage to get the odd tangle but nothing major. How much?

sorry - Same Sh1t Different Bucket

Spectra and Dyneema are not the same.

Dyneema and spectra are different beasts! Ill try and list some details about the two

- Spectra generally has half the break strength of that of dyneema.
- Dyneema has proven to wear quicker
- whilst spectra has a coating which doesn't like extreme amounts of heat.
- You have to Splice dyneema and can't tie knots in it (well its not recommended anyways)
- can tie knots in spectra


All in all YOU CANT WIN!

I have found that there are many different types of spectra and I recently bought some 3mm Spectra with an 890kg rating where as dyneema is only like 30KG more...

Puetz said...

... and maybe I can jump on this one too and ask, what about stretch characteristic?? I would imagine the cheap brands would stretch a bit compared to the name brands! Just guessing!

Hey Dean, how much did you pay?

cheers,

Robbie

Didn't buy it yet...Waiting for some answers from you guys, thanks.
Of e b a y :

Features
-270 kg.
-Sleeved with loops on all ends
-Pre-Stretched
-High Visibility

They are $100. I have no idea what "pre-stretched" means. Do they stretch?

PS
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/KITEBOARDING-CABRINHA-Powerdrive-IDS-Kite-Line-NEW-/290721544061

the truth said...

dyneema/spectra doesn't stretch as a fibre- it has ten times the tensile strength of steel. The act of braiding creates a hollow tube that has some stretch - by pre stretching this takes out some of the initial stretch that can occur in the first month of flying.
once again dyneema /spectra is the same stuff just brand names, it is the quality of the braid that counts, some are even set with wax to minimise the stretch.

... ok, that sounds reasonable. The samples I got are definetly different but I now understand that they are different models or type of lines in that how they have been put togeather and then treated to do different jobs. The 5mm spectra was harder to bend and sort of had a hard wearing layer where as the dyneema is very soft and grips in the cleat easily but wears out a bit too.

So what is the Q-line made of, do you know?

cheers,

Robbie

This may explain why your lines are pretty costly,dyneema is a high mod poly fibre invented by dsm dyneema,its the worlds strongest fibre, the fibre is manufactured by means of gel spinning, would you believe its 15 times stronger than steel and 40% stronger than aramids on a weight for weight basis, dyneema is chemical inert which means it virtually unafected by uv, as well as being used in your kite lines its used in fishing cut restant materials and bullet proof vests, its generally spun from 8, 12, or 16 fibres, with a range of 50 to 650 kg strains, the tighter the weave the weaker the lines an open weave is by far the strongest, a tightly spun line loses 50% of its natural strength, braid more openly and you only lose 20%, proper dyneema has a stretch rate of 2% where tight braid had 8%, braidtech are the worlds best lines found on ozone products, check out www.braidtech.eu

cauncy said...

braidtech are the worlds best lines

Bold statement.
Proof???

yo bris kites not my words spoken by lab technicians in a test,after testing they had the least stretch at just 2% and highest breaking resistance, of all major brands cheers

Just wondering, if the dyneema/spectra doesn't stretch, how does the trim of the kite get so affected when say a line is longer than the rest, is it because the 'hollow or tubular' parts are squashed out so effectively the line has stretched? I've had to re trim my bar/lines many times, infact once the front lines were longer than the steering by 20 cm (mind you I didn't check them for a long while).

Any ideas how they get out of trim so much? About every 10 sessions or so I have to check that the fronts match the steering lengths. I can imagine that many parts of the line set has a chance to stretch, I always thought it was the line itself and not the added parts (ie pig tails etc)?

cheers again for info,

Robbie

cheers,

Robbie

should have said doesn't stretch much but being general just as spectra has between 8 and 15 times the tensile strength of steel-depending on the steel- 10 times is a good average.
Just as I have been using many flavours of these lines for many years(35) I didn't say my favourite kites lines are the best because of some thing I read( a wise man once told me believe half of what you read and nothing of what you hear - but then he writes a lot too).
By the time stretch comes into play normally at about 85% of B/s things start to happen. The nature of the braid means that the line elongates and then contracts once unloaded -but not as much giving it some elasticity in the extreme which helps keeping things together -.e.g. spectra will break at lower loads than rated if it is a sudden loading than other styles of line e.g. nylon that will stretch maybe 50 % before breaking -spectra 2-5%. that is why they don't use it for climbing even though it is a lot lighter- the shock load from a fall will cause a break.
Your line elongation is the fibres becoming more linear from creep and therefore less elastic and more susceptible to breaking, tighter weave is more rigid therefore more tangle resistant- it wants to remain straight.
Your front lines ( I would guess you are heavier too) have the major load all the time so they can get longer and effect performance they need to be put back to even then kite parameters will be back to normal minus canopy wear (as this happens gradually you don't notice this till the kite really flies like said bucket).
best way to counteract this if you are heaver is to upgrade the Breaking Strength so you are loading the kite lines less- there will be a performance loss due to line drag so the thinner the lines are the better.
All these facts and figures have come from my head not a clipboard so to be taken with a grain of salt bucket of beer
luv
istt

Gorgo said...

dbabicwa said...
.... The fact is, my current lines tangle as hell on 2009 kite. Might be that the lines are actually older, duno.

Almost new 2010 kite, spectra lines are great, tho. So if this new ones are the same I'll buy it.

If your lines are tangling then you have a technique problem to deal with. Stiffer lines will help a little but they will still tangle if you do the wrong thing. If I were you I would work on my line management technique rather than buying new lines and hoping the problem will go away.

If you buy random kite lines off ebay you may or may not get a good product. $100 for a full set is about 1/3 what it would cost buying the name brand from a shop. Good luck. They might be good. They might not. There's no way to tell until you try them.

No probs with other, never lines.

Hovewer, the front lines tend to twist a lot, I think the swivel is to blame on that bar. When they twist it's a hell to untangle 4 lines for the last few meters!

Must be a swivel than?

Yeh a little birdy told me they are moving away from this, this year. North that is. This birdy also said some significant changes to the evo and minor but important changes to the Vegas and rebel. The bar is also very different, very different indeed.

yo puetzy ive just sent you an email hope it helps