eppo said..

Lessons I'd predict nay be their main form of cash flow...??

Hey Eppo,

You must be kidding right? 50% of our lesson fee goes to the instructor. The costs of running the school; upgrading and upkeep of radio's, boat and motor, maintenance on the trailer, rego, insurance, council permits, wear and tear on kites and gear throughout the year, etc. By the time we cover costs, there is nothing left. We then subsidize lessons with discounts on kite packages. There isn't much money in that either.

The only way to make a school profitable, is to cut corners and pay peanuts (Pay peanuts, get monkeys). Many do this and make reasonable income, unfortunately, we aren't one of them. It's not all about money. I also spend 6 hours per week teaching free SUP lessons up at 4:30am three days a week. This service runs a loss but is there for the good of the sport and I like to train and am happy to impart my knowledge for free. This is open to all persons, not just my customers. Most shops give a lot back to the community that the community either expect, or aren't aware of.

I've recently had my business professionally valued and it was described as an "under performing business when compared to stock levels against return". Much of what we do is fueled by passion and love of the sports. If you think we're getting rich, or even well paid, you are sorely mistaken.

DM

Emanjay said..

$100 per hour and half goes to instructor. Sign me up

You only get paid when you work, still interested? Takes a special person to teach kitesurfing in my experience, and a good head instructor for a school is hard to find and a bad one can ruin things quickly.

also honesty, look at lets say a shops website, then you put a bit of pressure on him and hey presto he massively reduces it, call me old fashioned but I don't trust anyone who tries to shaft me 1st up, and that's why I buy from who I buy from,as the saying goes do you get a receipt from the friends that you buy,

ActionSportsWA said..

eppo said..

Lessons I'd predict nay be their main form of cash flow...??

Hey Eppo,

You must be kidding right? 50% of our lesson fee goes to the instructor. The costs of running the school; upgrading and upkeep of radio's, boat and motor, maintenance on the trailer, rego, insurance, council permits, wear and tear on kites and gear throughout the year, etc. By the time we cover costs, there is nothing left. We then subsidize lessons with discounts on kite packages. There isn't much money in that either.

The only way to make a school profitable, is to cut corners and pay peanuts (Pay peanuts, get monkeys). Many do this and make reasonable income, unfortunately, we aren't one of them. It's not all about money. I also spend 6 hours per week teaching free SUP lessons up at 4:30am three days a week. This service runs a loss but is there for the good of the sport and I like to train and am happy to impart my knowledge for free. This is open to all persons, not just my customers. Most shops give a lot back to the community that the community either expect, or aren't aware of.

I've recently had my business professionally valued and it was described as an "under performing business when compared to stock levels against return". Much of what we do is fueled by passion and love of the sports. If you think we're getting rich, or even well paid, you are sorely mistaken.

DM

Well said Darren.
I think the other thing to take into account is that the sport is seasonal, come winter time and lessons are few and far between if possible at all and sales are exactly the same.
It is definitely for the love of the sport.
I definitely couldn't keep running without a second job.

I'm in business for myself and i sympathise with the shops, on average businesses make about 10% when it all washes out at the end of the year. Some more, a lot are less than that (i dont know about kite shops but i imagine the smaller shops make less than glorified wages) and when all is said and done sometimes i think it would be easier and a less stressful to just be on wages (not that i could ever do that)

The amount of stress and pressure on a shop owner is huge and with these guys giving their time away for free to help the sport i defiantly commend them, i understand that they have to do this to help drive sales but the energy outlayed vs reward is just not there (personally i wouldn't do it and not many people would) To me a kite shop is all about the passion and the sport, i have three in my local area and i am buggered as to how there is enough business to support them all.

So to all you shop owners out there getting of your backsides and doing something i say thank you.

You heard the man...see ya.......

Ah the wonders of the internet forums and the ease of misinterpretation. I think perhaps I could have worded that better...

Let me rephrase. We don't make much money. The time we spend with one customer to sell them a product at a discount, there's a chance that time could be spent with a customer who may have paid a higher price. I personally know plenty of tradies who say no if customers want a job done too cheap, because they could spend their time and effort with another customer who is willing to pay a little more for the same job.

I'm not too fussed how this is perceived on an online forum, it was simply an attempt to help those who don't know understand that kite shop owners (as a generalisation) aren't setting out to rip anyone off by charging retail. We're just trying to make a bit of a living out of a sport we love :)

Drew

Drewm said..

Ah the wonders of the internet forums and the ease of misinterpretation. I think perhaps I could have worded that better...

Let me rephrase. We don't make much money. The time we spend with one customer to sell them a product at a discount, there's a chance that time could be spent with a customer who may have paid a higher price. I personally know plenty of tradies who say no if customers want a job done too cheap, because they could spend their time and effort with another customer who is willing to pay a little more for the same job.

I'm not too fussed how this is perceived on an online forum, it was simply an attempt to help those who don't know understand that kite shop owners (as a generalisation) aren't setting out to rip anyone off by charging retail. We're just trying to make a bit of a living out of a sport we love :)

Drew

Fair play. I certainly don't think kite shop owners are out their to rip people off.... They are out there to make a crust and do what they love doing. Full credit to those people that do that. I would love too.... but I have done that maths and I cannot see how I would make enough $$ to support my family.

Maybe when the kids have left home? ....

Anyway Qudos to the dudes that put all on the line and do what they love.

ActionSportsWA said..

eppo said..

Lessons I'd predict nay be their main form of cash flow...??

Hey Eppo,

You must be kidding right? 50% of our lesson fee goes to the instructor. The costs of running the school; upgrading and upkeep of radio's, boat and motor, maintenance on the trailer, rego, insurance, council permits, wear and tear on kites and gear throughout the year, etc. By the time we cover costs, there is nothing left. We then subsidize lessons with discounts on kite packages. There isn't much money in that either.

The only way to make a school profitable, is to cut corners and pay peanuts (Pay peanuts, get monkeys). Many do this and make reasonable income, unfortunately, we aren't one of them. It's not all about money. I also spend 6 hours per week teaching free SUP lessons up at 4:30am three days a week. This service runs a loss but is there for the good of the sport and I like to train and am happy to impart my knowledge for free. This is open to all persons, not just my customers. Most shops give a lot back to the community that the community either expect, or aren't aware of.

I've recently had my business professionally valued and it was described as an "under performing business when compared to stock levels against return". Much of what we do is fueled by passion and love of the sports. If you think we're getting rich, or even well paid, you are sorely mistaken.

DM

well Said

Plummet said..

cauncy said..

also honesty, look at lets say a shops website, then you put a bit of pressure on him and hey presto he massively reduces it, call me old fashioned but I don't trust anyone who tries to shaft me 1st up, and that's why I buy from who I buy from,as the saying goes do you get a receipt from the friends that you buy,

That occurs for 2 reasons.
1) The manufacturer does not allow any price other than RRP to be advertised on line. If the shop advertises huge discounts then they can stand to loose their dealership.
2) Some people are prepaired to pay RRP. So if you advertise constantly discounted price then you are giving away margin you could potentially get. The problem advertising at full retail is you will loose sales to the bargin hunters.

A good salesman will be able to assess the customer and offer the appropriate solution for that customer. That could in the form of a discount or selling them the benifits of different product/service to get the deal done.

also i don't trust salesmen plumms, as for retailers losing their dealership heres a good one for you, a local surfer who I work with bought the top of the range aussie branded wetsuit just before winter, he got it direct from nsw for $560 ish, the guy I deal with in the uk for my mystic suits could do the exact same suit delivered for $290, but isn't allowed to sell back to Australia, WTF, so you support your home brand whos quite happy to sell it to foreigners cheaper than its own country of origin, to say he was pissed was an understatement

I worked in a bicycle shop for 10 years and the mark up was around 100%, it obviously got smaller when the retail price increased. Our best customers and most loyal were over 40 years old with disposable incomes. I assume most people here are in that age group category.

With overhead such as wages, rent, and utilities there was some room to make a profit but at some stages struggled. One post here said MTB parts are cheaper online so I buy them but I support my local kite shop. Another said snow gear is cheaper online but I support my local kite shop. Sorry but I dont see any difference. (its the same with electronic goods, clothes, ect)

I understand why people buy online, everyone wants to feel like they got a bargain, whether its a cheap case of beer or a a cheap kite. Also the younger generation dont have disposable income like the 40+ year olds and 200, 300, 400, 500 discount online is too irresistible to say no to. Thats fair enough, I understand why they wouldnt pay that much. They also look at the older generation and say they are stupid to pay those prices!

Retail is going online, like it or not. To be competitive you must consider a retail side (BWS kites, no one has said a bad word about them here, yet companies like this are half, if not more of the problem to retailers??)

Other options is to target a certain audience, such as 40+ year olds who dont mind paying for service and can afford it. By this, stock certain types of products (SUPs being one of them).

What surprises me a little is most people here would ride North/BWS/Naish/Cab kite surfboards. Why not sugarcube, Colin Earl Katanna (Too many to list) and support their livelihoods also.

IM NOT KNOCKING ANYONE WHO BUYS ONLINE, I do it, im not ashamed on doing of doing it, its the way of the future, in fact that futures here. Retail shops cant blame the consumers, they have to adjust with the times and see opportunity in the changing times. Or simply find another way to make money.

Oh I hope you all drive holdens or fords!

One for the shop owners,

The Australian Taxation Office suspected a kite shop owner wasn't paying proper wages to his instructors and sent an agent to investigate him.

ATO AUDITOR:
"I need a list of your employees and how much you pay them".

KITE SHOP OWNER:
"Well, there's Steve, my instructor, he's been with me for 3 years. I pay him $50 a hour, plus free room and board.
Then there's the mentally challenged guy. He works about 18 hours every day and does about 90% of the work around here.
He makes about $10 per week, pays his own room and board, and I buy him a bottle of Bundaberg rum and a dozen Crown Lagers every Saturday night so he can cope with life.
He also gets to sleep with my wife occasionally".

ATO AUDITOR:
"That's the guy I want to talk to - the mentally challenged one".

KITE SHOP OWNER:
"That'll be me. What'd you want to know"?

Why the red thumb (which is gone now)? it is a humorous way to show how tough it is in retail...or is someone too mentally challenged to get his point?

time for the 3rd change - started as windsurfing stores, changed to kitesurfing stores, now turn em into sup stores...

At least you are working for yourself in this case an industry you dig. You should see the tosses I deal with on a daily basis!!