See mystic's new spreader bar good idea if you can't hit your release....!

there was a quick release spreader bar made a few years ago - slingshot ??

saved me one day, hit the trigger and bang - kite flagged out

but they would fatigue and snapped 2 of them - one when giving a mates kite a try - he wasnt happy with the birds nest


i agree for need to engineer in more redundant safety systems that allow for back up QR

Ul

Chris6791 said..

Puetz said...
... I thought of this ages ago but had no idea how it could be implemented but a sort of fuse device that lets go when reached a predetermined pressure. You see fuses in all electrical equipment, so how can we put one in a bar/chickenloop/kite or even harness??

I've got no idea how you could 'fuse' a kite but wouldn't that be a good idea??? Making it independant of rider input is most important. When triggered, goes to one line sort of deal.

I assume it would have to be rider weight specific too so that complicates things too and not trigger prematurely when your pushing your riding (eg say kite loops).

Any one think this is an idea to pursue?? Any ideas???

cheers,

Robbie

ps man the old core chicken loop has some bad numbers,,,, yikes,,, I used to own one of them, not many people can lift 49kg with one hand!!!

The forces in a lofting are identical to booooooooosting. No QR, device or fuse will ever be able to tell the difference.

What is required is a mechanical(excuse the term) deadman release. So a safety that releases when an individual is no longer in control. Like on a lawnmower having to hold a lever up. let the lever go and the mower stops. or with a jet ski when the ride falls off the key pulls out at the ski stops...

I'm racking my brain to figure out how to do it effectively. But its pretty damn hard. I guess the reason we don't have mechanical deadman releases now is because no one has figured out how to do it.

With hooked, unhooked riding one handed, no hands, hands in the middle hands at the side, handle passes etc there are so many configurations used that make a deadman handle not really an option.

Slingshot did have the "Sure Fire" harness hook available from about 2006 onwards.
This was an amazingly simple and super safe system I used for all of that time.

Probably the greatest safety innovation in our industry has been the almost universal adoption of the 'push away QR at the head of the CL'. This has made the SS SureFire somewhat redundant.
This one move by most manufacturers to fall into step with the most effective QR action means that we can all now swap around our kites - or grab a test ride of a mates kite - and know that the one same single action will trigger the QR.
If there are any brands out there not following suit?? its time they did.

The problem now comes down to how often you practice & check the QR technique. As we have seen from this latest incident you dont always get time to think it through.
IT MUST BE A TOTALLY AVAILABLE WELL PRACTICED ACTION.
In the KSS school we teach (hammer home) the practice of using your QR every time you land your kite.
Its simple.
As long as you have faith in your landing assistant - as soon as the kite is under your landers control instead of walking towards them to give them the slack to lay it down just hit your QR.
This means you are thinking about it, practicing the action and checking that it functioning EVERY time you go out.
Its a no brainer. Should be standard practice of every kiter.
It also means that you have to re-build your chicken loop once every session. No biggy but you may just be very happy one day that your rebuild is also 2nd nature - not requiring any lengthy thinking about how its done.
AND
Since last Sunday the KSS school student manual features a new slogan.
One Im planning to paste in front of everyone face as often as possible.
Quick Release - A first response NOT a last resort.
From our latest sad experience here we have seen that its when you are already in a messy situation that the serious; however unexpected; next consequence hits that there may be NO time left for saving yourself.
Quick Release - A first response NOT a last resort.
Test it & practice it EVERY session.

Reckon I might get some 'T's printed up :-)

Chris6791 said..

Puetz said...

... I thought of this ages ago but had no idea how it could be implemented but a sort of fuse device that lets go when reached a predetermined pressure. You see fuses in all electrical equipment, so how can we put one in a bar/chickenloop/kite or even harness??



I've got no idea how you could 'fuse' a kite but wouldn't that be a good idea??? Making it independant of rider input is most important. When triggered, goes to one line sort of deal.



I assume it would have to be rider weight specific too so that complicates things too and not trigger prematurely when your pushing your riding (eg say kite loops).



Any one think this is an idea to pursue?? Any ideas???



cheers,



Robbie



ps man the old core chicken loop has some bad numbers,,,, yikes,,, I used to own one of them, not many people can lift 49kg with one hand!!!

The forces in a lofting are identical to booooooooosting. No QR, device or fuse will ever be able to tell the difference.

... yeah, I know that,,,, and exactly why I say I have no idea how to implement!!! Some how we need to make it happen and I fully know the kite doesn't know the difference but some how we gotta mak it know!!!!

Well, sort of the same idea, but a what about a switch or what ever you could call it, that, if not always engaged, will let the kite go, sorta like a 'deadman' switch that so many bits of equipment have now a days. If it's not pressed, then it lets go. For kiting, if you don't have the "thing" pressed then its ejected, and gone.

Like I said, it needs to be totally rider independant so you don't need to think of it.

I mate used to joke that we need a butt plug, if you clinch, the kite is ejected, its all hands free!! .

cheers,

Robbie

And I honestly can't see a dean man switch working either, I challenge any rider to go an entire session without taking both hands off the bar several times.

I'm not knocking the ideas, but I don't have any suggestions that aren't already out there either.

Hook knife. If you're face-down on the ground and the kite is pulling or the wind is gusting, I'm cutting your lines...

sir ROWDY said...
Some harnesses have a quick release type setup on the harness itself, one that you pull and your entire harness will come off and fly away with the kite. I think this is the best option as it's a sure way to ditch it all without stuff catching up if it doesn't work out. More brands should adopt this approach I think as it would be easy to get to and the most effective.

Had this fail on a prolimit hadlow, the little pin sheared on its second run giving me approx 600mtr swim to shore minus a kite,as the sun was going down, great system if you want it to work but a pisser if you dont

WeirdEd said..

Yesterday's tragic accident got me thinking and I realized that I have no idea how the safety releases from other kite brands work. I would like to set up an overview of safety releases with a short description and a picture for the benefit of all of us. I would be great if others could contribute to cover as many brands as possible.

Here's how mine works:

Slingshot CSS (2010-2014)
Grab the red, black or red/black handle labelled "release" and push away from harness.

It's an interesting issue that Ive been trying to rationalize since the sport started. I've been kiting since the beginning when there was no safety release systems and being hooked up to the "power loop" was frightening.....if you got in trouble it was very hard to unhook as you where on full power.

Power loops quickly lost favor for a good reason. The way around dumping a kite was to use quick release system at the harness hook then put chicken loop onto this. I always use a swivelling Wichard quick release snap shackle designed for quick release fully loaded (designed for firing off spinakers on yachts). They are very reliable and work with no effort under load.
Most modern systems work but not as well as a Wichard Quick release snap shackle. Most brands have different releases, many are crap and don't work well under duress, others are ok but all the differences cause many issues with users due to familiarity particularly switching between kites.
That's why with a Witchard system permanently on my harness I know i pull DOWN on the release cord and it will release under any conditions, whether it be fully loaded or filled with sand. PULLING DOWN is the key, pushing up on a safety release is more difficult if you are being dragged at speed through the water, trees. It is much easier to run a hand down the line to the hook then pow your off. Your hand swill naturally be going in this direction being dragged through what ever. Pushing requires "thinking" finding running hand up to release grabbing, pushing, sliding upwards etc. So much more difficult much less effective. Sometimes you may have a second to unhook, if you have to think about it then it's too late. If you you use one system of release for all kites it becomes second nature. Not oh I'm in trouble what kite have I got? which release system? oh push? pull? slide?...... oh **** I'm in trouble.

If you want to know more on this release system go to

marine.wichard.com/rubrique-Quick_release_snap_shackles-0202040300000000-IM.html

DONT buy other types other than Wichard as most don't work under full load (you will find this type in many yacht shops).
Unfortunately Wichard are approx $100, but you will have it for many more years than many Kite supplied releases that last a few seasons before they corrode, degrade or jamb needing replacement.

Chris6791 said..
And I honestly can't see a dean man switch working either, I challenge any rider to go an entire session without taking both hands off the bar several times.

I'm not knocking the ideas, but I don't have any suggestions that aren't already out there either.

... I agree but you slightly missed my point. Excuse the term but a 'deadman' switch or thingy or what ever we can call it means that your hands are free to do as normal, and the "thing" or "switch" can activate when needed. I know, "how the hell do we make one of those" so maybe some of the much smarter cookies out there can work out a way. Maybe we're still 'flat earth' thinking but I'm sure we can all agree, something along these lines would be a good thing.

My son was learning to kite and for 6 months, every morning I'd be driving my son to school and I would test him to "punch out" an imaginary chickenloop, even before I actually let him even fly a real kite. I'd be talking about a completely different subject and would suprize him with a "punch out". I wanted to 'burn' into his sub-conscious the first thing you think of is "if in doubt, punching out". A few years later he got dumped in waves with wierd gusts around and without thinking, he punched out his kite, safety leash and all were gone. I had to chase it down and when I got to talk to him about it later, he told me his lines nearly wrapped around his neck as a wave pushed him into the lines so he ejected the lot. He got a pat on the head for that. Anyway, the point of that is I didn't want him thinking about it, just do it. I figured, if its done in the first 2 seconds you can minimize alot of problems. You know, I've seen so many people who try to save a kite when things go wrong, including my self, try to when we shouldn't have, so those first split seconds can make all difference.

I'm gunna do some reminder safety lessons with the family this arvo!!!

cheers,

Robbie

One huge factor is the accidents seem to happen when not on the board so perhaps that could be part of the safety, an additional feature that releases easier when not in the footstraps.

... I think this is a great discussion,,, out of 1000 ideas we may just come up with a practical idea that might work, who knows!

I suspect Sir Rowdy will hate this idea, but whatever Ill put it out there!
It strikes me that the big problem for an auto-release function is the wide range of variables, hence hard to set it up to release when it goes to sh**t, but not release during normal operations.

I wonder if a PLC (Programmable logic controller) controlled release mechanism of last resort would improve things. You could plug in data such as rider weight, kite size, rider style, wind conditions etc which it would use to calculate an auto-release strain. You could even include sensors for data such as being over land or water. If over land, it could cut release strain by 50% for example. Directional data could be factored in, eg if you are going straight down wind, release strain is reduced. An accellerometer could detect a big impact maybe, and factor into release strain.

It would need a proper research project to pull the elements of data, sensors, ruggedizing etc together. The concept would be similar to a car airbag in that the rider should do everything possible to avoid an accident but as a last resort it could be a level of protection.

I think cost and complexity are probably the biggest negatives for this idea!

No Flexifoil in that list... ? I quite like the flexi release system. Push away.

I remember trying to cut out of an older velcro pin type system that just would not budge under load. It 'helpfully' released after I'd 'landed'


Pretty much everytime I've had close calls with gear was due to rushing the setup to get out there... 5 minutes more to double check your gear aint gonna kill you, 5 minutes less just might.

yeh I remember rigging those up in the early days, sometimes i found it hard thought o find that dam ball to pull when getting slammed downwind with a kitelooping out of control on a C kite with f'all depower.