Kamikuza said..

sir ROWDY said..
My tips for anyone with problems is to 1; make sure your CL is tuned to a length just shorter than your arms extended, and, 2; When you ride make sure you keep your shoulders back, your back straight and your arms almost straight. Use your waist and shoulders to pivot and pull your arms in and out whilst only pulling in with your elbows if absolutely necessary.

If you follow these tips I doubt you will ever have Tennis elbow from flying your kite.

That's not it. It's the tendons in the forearm involved in gripping the bar that make the tennis elbow.

Maybe so, but I don't grip the bar any lighter than I used to and with these small adjustments mentioned above I never get sore elbows anymore. Whether it's really "Tennis Elbow" or not is another debate entirely I guess. For the sake of the pedantics out there lets just call it "sore elbow" .

sir ROWDY said..

Kamikuza said..

sir ROWDY said..
My tips for anyone with problems is to 1; make sure your CL is tuned to a length just shorter than your arms extended, and, 2; When you ride make sure you keep your shoulders back, your back straight and your arms almost straight. Use your waist and shoulders to pivot and pull your arms in and out whilst only pulling in with your elbows if absolutely necessary.

If you follow these tips I doubt you will ever have Tennis elbow from flying your kite.

That's not it. It's the tendons in the forearm involved in gripping the bar that make the tennis elbow.

Maybe so, but I don't grip the bar any lighter than I used to and with these small adjustments mentioned above I never get sore elbows anymore. Whether it's really "Tennis Elbow" or not is another debate entirely I guess. For the sake of the pedantics out there lets just call it "sore elbow" .

It's not how you grip it, it's how much you have to hold. There may be a correlation with your changes, but other factors likely improved your sore elbow(s?).

For me, it was not sleeping with my arm hanging over the side of the bed and hyperextending my elbow all night. So now, high bar pressure is just bloody tiresome rather than painful.

Actually, having thought about it a bit more I think I understand why bar pressure is even more important for unhooked.

Is this right:?

When unhooked a low bar pressure kite has the same total force on the bar as a high bar pressure kite. But the low bar pressure kite has most of the force going to the middle of the bar via the centre lines. Hence the pull of the steering lines is "drowned out" by the pull of the centre lines on the bar.

When hooked in however, the force from the centre lines is on the harness not on the bar. The only forces on the bar are from the steering lines. Hence one can still notice the steering forces ok even though they are light on a low bar pressure kite.

I think the high bar pressure depends on how deep the kite sits in the window. If the kite is close to your direction of travel, one does not have to edge too hard to stay upwind and not much bar pressure is felt going upwind.

if the angle between the kite lines and your direction of travel (in plan view, i.e. looking from top) is larger (kite sitting deep in the wind window) the bar pressure is high.

Therefore the kite bar pressure depends on the kite, but for each kite with number of wing tip connection points you can achieve a bit lighter or heavier bar pressure depending where you connect the tip lines (less pressure when lines are connected closer to the wing tips).

I don't like heavy bar pressure as it limits my time on the water (arms get sore quicker). I can imagine person doing wakeboarding type tricks might like heavy bar pressure (load and pop will produce more agressive pop as the kite sitting deep in the window 'catches more wind'). Such kites might also drift better.

don' know for sure, but this is my logic

Kamikuza said..

It's not how you grip it, it's how much you have to hold. There may be a correlation with your changes, but other factors likely improved your sore elbow(s?).

Nope, all variables remained the same. I've been riding similar gear for years. Working a kite all day with bent arms will most certainly give you sore elbows (it did in my case).

Whatever you think the cause of it is really isn't important anyway. If someone's got sore elbows they can try what I said and if it doesn't fix the problem they haven't lost a thing by doing it.

Another tip I might add is to ride the right sized kite, under-powered riding requires a lot more swooping which is bad for your elbows and your trick technique.

@Holgs, you're kinda onto it.

More bar pressure = more rear line tension.

More rear line tension = more feel of where the kite is pulling from as the bar will naturally try to stay parallel to the kite in any position.

Unhooked Vs Hooked makes zero difference on bar pressure that people are talking about in this thread. You will naturally have more pull on your arms unhooked but this isn't "bar pressure" per se. Bar pressure is the force required to turn the kite by pulling in one side of the bar.

The reason it matters more for un-hooked riding is usually because you're doing more advanced tricks where your kite will move to the wrong spot easier whilst you're unable to keep an eye on it, in this case BP (feedback) helps a lot.

Personally I prefer kites with a bit more bar pressure even when riding hooked-in, as it still gives you more feedback whilst you're not looking at the kite.

Kamikuza said..

sir ROWDY said..
Bar pressure is the force required to turn the kite by pulling in one side of the bar.

Personally I prefer kites with a bit more bar pressure even when riding hooked-in, as it still gives you more feedback whilst you're not looking at the kite.

No, bar pressure is the force you feel holding onto the bar, not just when you turn it.

It's the same thing, you can't have one without the other.

Two kinds of pressure. One is to sheet in the kite, pulling parallel. The other is turning force, pulling on one side. They tend to correlate, but not always.
I prefer light on both.

Gfly said..
I agree with Pearl in bar pressure isnt an indication of how easy it is to judge where the kite is.

Not sure that's what Pearl meant. What I got from what he was saying is that he doesn't need heavy bar pressure as he's fine with the feel he gets from a kite with lighter bar pressure.

Bar pressure is most certainly an indication of how easy it is to judge where the kite is. Take it to the extreme, imagine a kite with the lightest bar pressure imaginable (or none), you wouldn't be able to fly it without looking, it would be like using a playstation controller to control a character in a video game.

sir ROWDY said..

Kamikuza said..

sir ROWDY said..
Bar pressure is the force required to turn the kite by pulling in one side of the bar.

Personally I prefer kites with a bit more bar pressure even when riding hooked-in, as it still gives you more feedback whilst you're not looking at the kite.

No, bar pressure is the force you feel holding onto the bar, not just when you turn it.

It's the same thing, you can't have one without the other.

Dunno, eh. Some kites have massive pressure holding the bar in on a tack but once you pull on one side they're light . . . and vice versa.

IIRC the Draft was like the former and the old SB the latter. Either way, I hate it