Hi guys

Just wondering about the max wind speed that my kite can be ridden in. It's a 10m2 Cabrinha Crossbow. In the manual the wind range goes up to 23 knots more or less. But it's my only kite so wondering if one could ride it in stronger winds. Like on lightest setting on the backlines and I suppose you could also trim the depower to full if needed. I am not planning on pushing the limit soon since I am still new but just pondering about it a bit.

If it helps I am 170 pounds and my board is 128cm x 36 cm. Thanks guys

Cheers
Mozzie

Depends on many factors. Namely how skilled and mad you are. I can hold my 10 edge to 30 knots gusts. I'm 78kg.

I am really mad. I have windsurfed with a 6m2 20 yo sail in 30knots with a slippery windsurfer board. Ok but that is totally different from kiting. But mad I am. Skilled...Not so much yet. I am working on it. That is why I am saying that I will use this information in the future when I am more experienced. But never hurts to know. And I won't risk my only kite unnecessarily.

Hi Mozkiter,

Seeing as you are asking the question, it would lead me to believe you are fairly inexperienced. I would stick to the 15-25 knots most likely recommended by the manufacturer.

Just because you can hold more wind on a kite, doesn't mean YOU should. At the end of the day it is a 10 square meter kite which starts to become a handful over about 25 knots at your weight. Don't believe the 100% depower hype. Trimming in the depower fully makes your rear steering lines go slack robbing you of control and also making the kite more unstable in gusty winds.

If you depower so much that you start losing control of your steering or the steering becomes unresponsive and squishy, then you have reached beyond the limits of the kite.

Be careful, especially in winter gusty winds.

DM

Hi DM

That is exactly the comment I was looking for. You are correct in saying I am inexperienced. That is why I asked before putting myself in a dangerous situation. Ok so 25 knots max. Excellent comment. Duly noted and will take care to stay inside the 25 knots. Does 25 knots mean the average speed or should the gusts also be under 25 to be safe?

Thanks guys

Hi Mozzie,

The kite will be fine in short gusts and should be OK, once you have the experience to ride more powered . Please note, alot of this depends on the year model and also the percentage of increase a gust is on top of the average wind speed. On a gusty day the average may be 25 knots, but the peak gusts could go as high as 35 which is not difficult in winter especially.

I don't recommend year one kiters kite over winter in the more frontal squally conditions. Sometimes, all you may learn is that you shouldn't have gone out . If considering kiting winter winds, I would advise you get a hold of a 7m kite which will be much more comfortable in 20-30 knots at your weight.

DM

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ActionSportsWA said..
Hi Mozzie,

The kite will be fine in short gusts and should be OK, once you have the experience to ride more powered . Please note, alot of this depends on the year model and also the percentage of increase a gust is on top of the average wind speed. On a gusty day the average may be 25 knots, but the peak gusts could go as high as 35 which is not difficult in winter especially.

I don't recommend year one kiters kite over winter in the more frontal squally conditions. Sometimes, all you may learn is that you shouldn't have gone out . If considering kiting winter winds, I would advise you get a hold of a 7m kite which will be much more comfortable in 20-30 knots at your weight.

DM

Yep, spot on. A 7m is soo much fun in a winter squall.

Mozkiter you need an aproximately 135cm board. That 128 is just holding you back in so many ways

Hi Mozzie,

From experience with older Cabrinha kites (I think they stopped doing the crossbow 10m in 2012), my biggest worry would be your line tuning..all students I've taught who bought older second hand Carbrinha kites had serious line tuning issues...

What happens over time is your back lines will become shorter than the front lines, which means your kite will always be overpowered. In most cases when I worked on tuning older Cabrinha bars (2008-2012), front lines were around 20-25 cm too long!

So yeah wind range up to 25 knots is fine, but that's assuming all your lines are the same length...

Google: Cabrinha Bar Tuning Tech Tip and follow their advice on the video.

Christian

Thanks DM. Your reply is spot-on. Unfortunately the budget of a university student is a bit tight for that 7m2 kite or 135cm board. But they are definitely in the plans for the future. I was wondering about it because I'm going on a kiting weekend on Friday. Friday winds gona be a nice sunny 18 knots average gusts 23 knots North. Saturday frontal systems with 23-32 knots South. Like you said DM there is a big difference between average and gusts in a frontal system. So I'm guessing I am going to stay on the beach n Saturday. Or perhaps go surfing..

With regards to a bigger board. I am busy making a 150cm one for light winds. I am almost done with that one. And after that one is done I am making a 140cm one for moderate winds. I can ride nicely in 16 knots with the 128 but could be easier with a 140.

Thank you for the excellent advice. Now it is less likely that you will see me posting my kitemare experience or me trashing my gear and myself. Now this noob is a bit wiser now. Thanks guys. Hopefully one day I will be able to help other beginners as well.

Wishing you strong winds in these windless times.
Cheers
Mozzie

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kookaburrahz said..
Mozkiter you need an aproximately 135cm board. That 128 is just holding you back in so many ways

Not necessarily true. I ride a 128 Nobile NHP. I'm 83kg and it gets me upwind in 14knots on a 9m Edge. Smooth through the chop and fast. Much better than my old 132 Triple 5 and not hard on the knees like the old 152.

Always look at the max gust of the day and make sure your kite can handle that gust.

don't look at max gusts, you don't know what they'll be, rarely in winter conditions are forcasts correct, looking at say a max gust will influence your kite size choice,
theres every chance itll exceed that chosen kite, winter fronts I find are always between 17mtr and 7 mtr in a session, and this is why you need to be on the ball

Thanks Christian. Will do that for sure. Plummet. I will also do so. Thanks guys

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kkiter said...

kookaburrahz said..
Mozkiter you need an aproximately 135cm board. That 128 is just holding you back in so many ways

Not necessarily true. I ride a 128 Nobile NHP. I'm 83kg and it gets me upwind in 14knots on a 9m Edge. Smooth through the chop and fast. Much better than my old 132 Triple 5 and not hard on the knees like the old 152.

I'm also 83kg and ride a 128 Noble NHP.... Hasn't held me back.

something to think about
nearly all seriouse and fatal accidents have arose from wrong sized kite and generally in winter fronts or squalls, and to experienced kiters, if in doubt sit it out, some locations will be less forgiving in the event, so a good check of surrounds and potential hazards

Very true cauncy. I definitely agree. Had a blaster 28 knot last Saturday but decided against going out. I am a very safety conscious person and that is why I asked you guys that already have a lot of experience. I will definitely not take any risks. The spot I had in mind is a nice bay with some good waves on the outside. It's Ponta do Ouro in Mozambique. If you wanna take a look on Google Earth the coordinates are: 26°50'36.10"S 32°53'30.05"E

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cauncy said..
don't look at max gusts, you don't know what they'll be, rarely in winter conditions are forcasts correct, looking at say a max gust will influence your kite size choice,
theres every chance itll exceed that chosen kite, winter fronts I find are always between 17mtr and 7 mtr in a session, and this is why you need to be on the ball

That is the most terrible unsafe advice I have seen on this forum.

ALWAYS look at what could be the maximum gust for your session and choose a kite that can handle that max gust.

It helps if you have live weather readings locally then you can check the actual wind off against the forecasted win and predict what that max gust could be.

If your kite can't handle it. DONT RIDE.

People die when they use a kite that's too big for the max gust of the session. In your example above. 17 to 7m session. You should be on the 7m. Switch out boards through the lulls if need be. But if you are riding a 17m when 40 knots comes through....... death is a good possibility.

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Plummet said...

cauncy said..
don't look at max gusts, you don't know what they'll be l

That is the most terrible unsafe advice I have seen

It helps if you have live weather readings

As a bit of an aviator. Allways trim for the gusts not just for the bleedingly obvious reasons plummet brought up.

And who ever said otherwise you are an iditodiotoidioto (of course cauncy typical)

The way all our wind meters work. BOM's airports amd farmers/hobbiests etc is this.

Wind flows thru the meter the meter measures the wind as it is doing so. Then it does 2 things. Itll output the highest windspeed (the gust) and it will average the windspeeds recorded over a period of time and output the average.

The GUST reading is REAL it is a 100% correct reading that occured.

The average on the other hand never actually happened its just a blend of all the readings compiled together and averaged.

You ALLLLLLWAAAAAYYYYSSSS go by the gust.
For everything.



Just remember mozkiter a developing cloud upwind of you sucks wind up. So it will seem quite safe to go kiting where in fact once it gets to you it can be very different wind then it was before. So look to the horizon upwind of you when deciding on your session. Seems like you know a little about weather. There is plenty of books from sailors and pilots about localised micro meteorology and how to read it all.

Good luck. Sounds like you have a nice little place away from mauritius/zanzi etc

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Plummet said...

cauncy said..
don't look at max gusts, you don't know what they'll be, rarely in winter conditions are forcasts correct, looking at say a max gust will influence your kite size choice,
theres every chance itll exceed that chosen kite, winter fronts I find are always between 17mtr and 7 mtr in a session, and this is why you need to be on the ball

That is the most terrible unsafe advice I have seen on this forum.

ALWAYS look at what could be the maximum gust for your session and choose a kite that can handle that max gust.

It helps if you have live weather readings locally then you can check the actual wind off against the forecasted win and predict what that max gust could be.

If your kite can't handle it. DONT RIDE.

People die when they use a kite that's too big for the max gust of the session. In your example above. 17 to 7m session. You should be on the 7m. Switch out boards through the lulls if need be. But if you are riding a 17m when 40 knots comes through....... death is a good possibility.

As your reading it wrong,and I didn't exsplain it correctly
A winter frontal here can go from 17 mtr to 7 mtr even when the forecasts are stating otherwise
So scenario is joes on the beach and it's blowing 13/15 but sb says it should be 25
What does he do, he won't rig his 7 as that's what sb is predicting the max wind gust might be
And this is where most injuries occur,
Most don't have the scence to sit it out
Very rarely do you have kiters rigging to maximum possibilities.
They usually rig to current conditions
Passing point Moore 2 days ago
Every kiter had adopted this scenario

I firstly look at a chart that gives me some indication (probability) of when the rain (that is the front crossing) will most likely be around. Vague but a start. Also look at the synoptics to get some indication of the nature of the front.

If it's coming in 'waves', which it invariably does, I check the rain radar and look at the wind range as one or two 'waves' come through...gives some indication.

if you can try and check a few times a couple of hours before to get a 'feel' for what is

Before kiting I check the rain radar again and try and gauge the speed of the front and when it might hit.

Then I look at the sky down the beach and confirm the chart readings match what I'm seeing.

Generally rig the smaller kite based on the wind range. If the lulls are too low for this and the wind is just too variable, I sit it out. Then again sometimes I do push the limits a bit if i feel up to it.

And more often than not I sit in my car, watch someone rig up and get my rain jacket ready, as I know, soon enough I will be helping some poor sucker getting hammered from assehole to breakfast.

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kookaburrahz said...

Plummet said...

cauncy said..
don't look at max gusts, you don't know what they'll be l

That is the most terrible unsafe advice I have seen

It helps if you have live weather readings

As a bit of an aviator. Allways trim for the gusts not just for the bleedingly obvious reasons plummet brought up.

And who ever said otherwise you are an iditodiotoidioto (of course cauncy typical)

The way all our wind meters work. BOM's airports amd farmers/hobbiests etc is this.

Wind flows thru the meter the meter measures the wind as it is doing so. Then it does 2 things. Itll output the highest windspeed (the gust) and it will average the windspeeds recorded over a period of time and output the average.

The GUST reading is REAL it is a 100% correct reading that occured.

The average on the other hand never actually happened its just a blend of all the readings compiled together and averaged.

You ALLLLLLWAAAAAYYYYSSSS go by the gust.
For everything.



Just remember mozkiter a developing cloud upwind of you sucks wind up. So it will seem quite safe to go kiting where in fact once it gets to you it can be very different wind then it was before. So look to the horizon upwind of you when deciding on your session. Seems like you know a little about weather. There is plenty of books from sailors and pilots about localised micro meteorology and how to read it all.

Good luck. Sounds like you have a nice little place away from mauritius/zanzi etc

A real gust as explained is useless to someone that's on the water
It's predicted gusts that kiters usually look at ,
Most times they never happen, especially in sb forecasts,
In winter frontals you'll not know what the wind gusts might be,
We've recently had 2 apparent strong wind days
But in real time on the beach we've had nothing like it,
There's a big difference to what is predicted and what is going to happen
The proof of this has been the fatalities on our coast and to highly exsperienced kiters

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kkiter said..

kookaburrahz said..
Mozkiter you need an aproximately 135cm board. That 128 is just holding you back in so many ways

Not necessarily true. I ride a 128 Nobile NHP. I'm 83kg and it gets me upwind in 14knots on a 9m Edge. Smooth through the chop and fast. Much better than my old 132 Triple 5 and not hard on the knees like the old 152.

I'll bet you your NHP is not 36cm Wide.

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harry potter said..

kkiter said...

kookaburrahz said..
Mozkiter you need an aproximately 135cm board. That 128 is just holding you back in so many ways

Not necessarily true. I ride a 128 Nobile NHP. I'm 83kg and it gets me upwind in 14knots on a 9m Edge. Smooth through the chop and fast. Much better than my old 132 Triple 5 and not hard on the knees like the old 152.

I'm also 83kg and ride a 128 Noble NHP.... Hasn't held me back.

Once again I'll bet you your NHP is not 36cm Wide.

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eppo said..
I firstly look at a chart that gives me some indication (probability) of when the rain (that is the front crossing) will most likely be around. Vague but a start. Also look at the synoptics to get some indication of the nature of the front.

If it's coming in 'waves', which it invariably does, I check the rain radar and look at the wind range as one or two 'waves' come through...gives some indication.

if you can try and check a few times a couple of hours before to get a 'feel' for what is

Before kiting I check the rain radar again and try and gauge the speed of the front and when it might hit.

Then I look at the sky down the beach and confirm the chart readings match what I'm seeing.

Generally rig the smaller kite based on the wind range. If the lulls are too low for this and the wind is just too variable, I sit it out. Then again sometimes I do push the limits a bit if i feel up to it.

And more often than not I sit in my car, watch someone rig up and get my rain jacket ready, as I know, soon enough I will be helping some poor sucker getting hammered from assehole to breakfast.

Yep thats exactly what I do.

These days I am hardly ever suprised with the wind given my knowledge of local conditions and looking at forcasts, live weather readings and rain radars.

Sometimes I rig a kite thats one size wrong. But I am never ever caught out with un-suspecting insane weather. It is either forecast and or visible for hours on the rain radar and trackable with live readings and finally facethometer once at the beach. If i'm on a kite thats way to big that's because i'm pushing the limits of riding before the squall hits. Its not because i didn't expect the wind to spike like it did.

Oh yeah. Final check is what the other experienced guys on the beach are flying.

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cauncy said..

Plummet said...

cauncy said..
don't look at max gusts, you don't know what they'll be, rarely in winter conditions are forcasts correct, looking at say a max gust will influence your kite size choice,
theres every chance itll exceed that chosen kite, winter fronts I find are always between 17mtr and 7 mtr in a session, and this is why you need to be on the ball

That is the most terrible unsafe advice I have seen on this forum.

ALWAYS look at what could be the maximum gust for your session and choose a kite that can handle that max gust.

It helps if you have live weather readings locally then you can check the actual wind off against the forecasted win and predict what that max gust could be.

If your kite can't handle it. DONT RIDE.

People die when they use a kite that's too big for the max gust of the session. In your example above. 17 to 7m session. You should be on the 7m. Switch out boards through the lulls if need be. But if you are riding a 17m when 40 knots comes through....... death is a good possibility.

As your reading it wrong,and I didn't exsplain it correctly
A winter frontal here can go from 17 mtr to 7 mtr even when the forecasts are stating otherwise
So scenario is joes on the beach and it's blowing 13/15 but sb says it should be 25
What does he do, he won't rig his 7 as that's what sb is predicting the max wind gust might be
And this is where most injuries occur,
Most don't have the scence to sit it out
Very rarely do you have kiters rigging to maximum possibilities.
They usually rig to current conditions
Passing point Moore 2 days ago
Every kiter had adopted this scenario

See my above post. With experience predicting max gust and selecting the appropriate kite size is very achievable. I cannot remember the last time i was suprised by any weather system that came through.

BUT I have 10 years of interpreting forecasts, rain radar and live weather readings at my local. I know approximately how far out the forecast can be given the weather system approaching, wind angle ect.... Eg. Sw forecast can be 5-10 knots higher than predicted. NW 5-10 lower. Squall lines on a 25 knot day can push to 35-40 knots give some types of fronts. Others can kill the wind, change its direction.....

So experience on predicting the weather is primary for winter riding and kite selecting.

Side note. I love storm kiting and am usually the mad bastard chasing the big wind in silly variable conditions. So I have spent a reasonable amount of time to learn about the weather and how it affects my local.

Kookaburahz. Yes I am knowledgeable in weather systems, forecasts, synoptic charts , reading the sky and clouds. I was the top student in Geography in my school so I have a pretty good idea of what's going on. I usually look at the synoptic charts then look at the three different wind forecasting sites to get a good idea of what is going to come. I tend to believe the forecast site that predicted the most wind for safety.

The forecast sites tend to get my spot a bit wrong when the wind is NE but they spot on when it comes to S or SE winds. For example on Monday the predicted wind was 13-16 knots. And even with my small board and relatively small kite I was flying and riding upwind. Definitely around 18 knots I would say. But this specific wind direction never gets stronger than 22 knots. And it's cross onshore so it is an excellent riding wind.

Some pretty interesting comments. Good advice and comments from experienced people.

I've been called the weatherman by my friends and family because I am always predicting the weather conditions and wind direction from looking at the clouds and my general knowledge of the area. Quite fun doing so. Especially when you get it right

Yes I have rarely been caught out, if at all. But I always err on the side of caution, sometimes I'm wrong and it turns out fine, but most the time I was glad I gave it a miss.

The only time Ive been caught out is those days, when you haven't been out for ages, gagging for a session, you see the black clouds arising, but you tell yourself..just a few more tacks, just a few more ...then wham, ya done like a dinner. Keep kite low, stay away from shore and ride it out with one hand on the quick release at all times. Even just stay put in the water with ya board in front of you and take it like the stupid dog you are for not listening to your own common sense.

If you lose all steering punch out!

www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.flsc.org/portals/12/PDF/UnderstandingTheSky.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiVurG31LDMAhXHn4MKHSHACoEQFggZMAA&usg=AFQjCNHRoswOOAnkFx12XS0SXZ4iRBJj8A

If you enjoy it send us some photos of your kitesurfing spot. When its nice and sunny ofcourse

I will definitely. Maybe a video as well if I can. Tomorrow leaving early for there. Only 3 hours from here to there. Wind gona blow all day around 18 knots. Should get in a good session. Thanks for the link

i have used 8 metre rally in 42 plus knot squalls , fun but not safe, 10 metre under 30 for sure . remember it is supposed to be fun..