Well, every1 talking about how good (or less good) are newer kites and equipment so i was wondering are there any "bad" newer kites (year 2013 and up) which we should avoid?

Only thing i can demo in my country is RRD so not much of a choice. Maybe borrow some North's from near local spot.

Are there newer kites with major (or any relevant) manufacturing flaws or faulty designed for their "job"... etc... ?

For an example, 2013 Switchblades (10m+) had a bit better turning but lost bottom end which they fixed with 2014 version. I read about it a lot online too.

A dude i know can't selflaunch his 12m (2013) under 12-13 kts (he is kiting for years) and me who struggles with waterstart can manage to launch 12m (2010) at 10-11 kts and keep it in the air with not much problems. He sold/swapped his kite pretty fast if i recall well.

This doesn't seem like much but when u live in the place where winds are often marginal, equipment more expensive because lack of sale competition, only thing separating u from kiting and teabaging is spending tone of cash for LW board and bigger kite for like 2-3 kts.

What's your opinions?

no bad kites just bad kiters

Hi
don't know of much that will work under 8-10kts.
And of course the bigger u go in size often makes it harder to relaunch but that said many are easier to launch than others.
It all relative to how much u kite and what u have kited on sometime to what u notice from one kite to another.
The 2013 switch blades had a few difference to other years which most say are positive so stay away
from those ,more for resale pointy of view if u can't feel the difference from one kite to another when learning.
Just read,read ,read and don't get into personal preferences for one person to another.
Stick to more trusted brands (popular) bandits,cabrinha,north,core etc etc

just depends on what you want to do in the condition you have??

Most major brands will tell you what there kites are designed to do in certain conditions.

Dont go and get a kite that wont suit your conditions because then you will have a bad kite!!!!on that apparently new cabrinha 2016 are using a cheap Chinese cloth while ozone and north still use European higher quality all construction is very good with them all.

At the end of the day its personal preference on kite brand

One kite has killed more kiter's than any other than I know. That's an F one bandit. It gets wing tip bridle wraps and death loops people to death. But I have never seen or ridden a F one bandit. I have just noticed a trend when reading about kitesurfing deaths. I don't know what years are affected or if they have shortened the bridle for newer models.

That aside. One mans glory is another mans rubbish...... Its real hard to say which is best and worst it depends on what you want in a kite.

As an example I had a 2011 Ozone C4. Loved it for general freeriding and boosting in the waves. Bought a 2013 C4. Absolutely hated it. It was horrible for what I wanted to do. But Ozone had made it more dedicated wake style. The Wake stylers loved it. I hated it.....

So you need to get specific as to what you want out of a kite. Then we can drill down to good/bad options.

I can't speak for any other brands but for a newbie starting out you can't go wrong with an Airush Lithium. Good all-round general purpose kite that won't try and kill you :-)

There still are bad kites for sure, and they get worse with bad operators!

I remember 2013 north rebel was gutless. And the bar fell apart.

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Percvil said...
just depends on what you want to do in the condition you have??

Most major brands will tell you what there kites are designed to do in certain conditions.

Dont go and get a kite that wont suit your conditions because then you will have a bad kite!!!!on that apparently new cabrinha 2016 are using a cheap Chinese cloth while ozone and north still use European higher quality all construction is very good with them all.

At the end of the day its personal preference on kite brand

Pretty sure teijin that most brands use is Japanese, the t9600 canopy is widely used, the d2 ripstop was exclusive to north for a year or so but now the chosen fabric for leading brands, if what you say is correct with cabrinah then it's a daft move as they were using the premium d2 before , , IMHO all brands do a decent kite, however certain things may not be to our liking or what were used too, the rebel, the switchblade, the vx, c4, to name a few, these all stepped down in performance but are back in to how they used to be, don't forget the r&d on these kite are with very skilled riders not weekend warriors

Do you mean bad like Michael Jacksons song or his chin?

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Plummet said..
One kite has killed more kiter's than any other than I know. That's an F one bandit. It gets wing tip bridle wraps and death loops people to death. But I have never seen or ridden a F one bandit. I have just noticed a trend when reading about kitesurfing deaths. I don't know what years are affected or if they have shortened the bridle for newer models.

That aside. One mans glory is another mans rubbish...... Its real hard to say which is best and worst it depends on what you want in a kite.

As an example I had a 2011 Ozone C4. Loved it for general freeriding and boosting in the waves. Bought a 2013 C4. Absolutely hated it. It was horrible for what I wanted to do. But Ozone had made it more dedicated wake style. The Wake stylers loved it. I hated it.....

So you need to get specific as to what you want out of a kite. Then we can drill down to good/bad options.

Bandits seem to attract older users at my local, maybe that has something to do with it?
I used to ride a bandit 4 (first of the square tips) and never really had an issue with the bridle, I did have an issue with the velcro safety being a bit flimsy, so I modified it so it held better.
Maybe some old timers modified theirs too sturdy so it doesn't work?

Back to the thread, have you actually demoed the RRD's? They are a good kite and you might like them, which is better than what other people think on a forum

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cauncy said..

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Percvil said...
just depends on what you want to do in the condition you have??

Most major brands will tell you what there kites are designed to do in certain conditions.

Dont go and get a kite that wont suit your conditions because then you will have a bad kite!!!!on that apparently new cabrinha 2016 are using a cheap Chinese cloth while ozone and north still use European higher quality all construction is very good with them all.

At the end of the day its personal preference on kite brand

Pretty sure teijin that most brands use is Japanese, the t9600 canopy is widely used, the d2 ripstop was exclusive to north for a year or so but now the chosen fabric for leading brands, if what you say is correct with cabrinah then it's a daft move as they were using the premium d2 before , , IMHO all brands do a decent kite, however certain things may not be to our liking or what were used too, the rebel, the switchblade, the vx, c4, to name a few, these all stepped down in performance but are back in to how they used to be, don't forget the r&d on these kite are with very skilled riders not weekend warriors

it was merely a something i heard on the grape vine from an ozone dealer out side of aus and who is pretty honest weather its true or not im yet to work out

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flyingcab said..

Plummet said..
One kite has killed more kiter's than any other than I know. That's an F one bandit. It gets wing tip bridle wraps and death loops people to death. But I have never seen or ridden a F one bandit. I have just noticed a trend when reading about kitesurfing deaths. I don't know what years are affected or if they have shortened the bridle for newer models.

That aside. One mans glory is another mans rubbish...... Its real hard to say which is best and worst it depends on what you want in a kite.

As an example I had a 2011 Ozone C4. Loved it for general freeriding and boosting in the waves. Bought a 2013 C4. Absolutely hated it. It was horrible for what I wanted to do. But Ozone had made it more dedicated wake style. The Wake stylers loved it. I hated it.....

So you need to get specific as to what you want out of a kite. Then we can drill down to good/bad options.

Bandits seem to attract older users at my local, maybe that has something to do with it?
I used to ride a bandit 4 (first of the square tips) and never really had an issue with the bridle, I did have an issue with the velcro safety being a bit flimsy, so I modified it so it held better.
Maybe some old timers modified theirs too sturdy so it doesn't work?

Back to the thread, have you actually demoed the RRD's? They are a good kite and you might like them, which is better than what other people think on a forum

I have only used my Bandit III for a season then have hidden it away in storage in the deepest depths of my toy shed. That kite was a brutal piece of work. I was so pumped when I first got it, but so let down by its ridiculous grunt, poor flying characteristics, and yes, even a wingtip bridle tangle or 2 thrown in there. Survived, but not planning on geting it back out anytime soon, in fact, think its off to the glue factory sometime soon - gonna make it into bags, thats the only good use for that kite haha

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Chris_M said..

flyingcab said..

Plummet said..
One kite has killed more kiter's than any other than I know. That's an F one bandit. It gets wing tip bridle wraps and death loops people to death. But I have never seen or ridden a F one bandit. I have just noticed a trend when reading about kitesurfing deaths. I don't know what years are affected or if they have shortened the bridle for newer models.

That aside. One mans glory is another mans rubbish...... Its real hard to say which is best and worst it depends on what you want in a kite.

As an example I had a 2011 Ozone C4. Loved it for general freeriding and boosting in the waves. Bought a 2013 C4. Absolutely hated it. It was horrible for what I wanted to do. But Ozone had made it more dedicated wake style. The Wake stylers loved it. I hated it.....

So you need to get specific as to what you want out of a kite. Then we can drill down to good/bad options.

Bandits seem to attract older users at my local, maybe that has something to do with it?
I used to ride a bandit 4 (first of the square tips) and never really had an issue with the bridle, I did have an issue with the velcro safety being a bit flimsy, so I modified it so it held better.
Maybe some old timers modified theirs too sturdy so it doesn't work?

Back to the thread, have you actually demoed the RRD's? They are a good kite and you might like them, which is better than what other people think on a forum

I have only used my Bandit III for a season then have hidden it away in storage in the deepest depths of my toy shed. That kite was a brutal piece of work. I was so pumped when I first got it, but so let down by its ridiculous grunt, poor flying characteristics, and yes, even a wingtip bridle tangle or 2 thrown in there. Survived, but not planning on geting it back out anytime soon, in fact, think its off to the glue factory sometime soon - gonna make it into bags, thats the only good use for that kite haha

I had a Bandit 2 11m grunty as hell but also scary, with long front bridle lines, weird. Also had a Bandit 3 7m that was great until, after only a little crash it started death looping. That was the end of me experimenting with other brands. Back to the Cabs for me, it would be disappointing to find out they're cutting back on quality as you pay a premium for them!

Chris M - what size is your Bandit 3 ? Ill happily take it off your hands - awesome kites and the bandits just keep getting better - but Id fly a B3 any day :-)
Ive never had a wing tip wrap - must be pilot error Im thinking ??
Plummet - Id also have to say that people that have never actually flown a kite are really showing their stupidity side when commenting on a kite ......
Bandit kites started way back and while they have held their name through the years, the kite technology has change in line with kiters expectations ( don't suggest a Bandit DOS is the current benchmark ??) . Something I have noticed is the front bridals have been shortened significantly from the B3's to the B7's, and the canopy shape and material has changed - sure they had a hiccup with the Bandit 4 bar ( that was a WTF moment for a company like F-One!!)
Ive flow a lots of different brands over the past 7 years - yes only a relatively recent kiter after conversion from the wave sailing world (to the dark side and the best place to be!!).
Im happy to fly my mates kite which cover a wide range of brands but for me I keep coming back to the Bandits - I reckon this thread shouldn't be about brand bashing but it would be good if the EXPERIENCED kiters could point out the DOGS to avoid !

For my 2CW - avoid a Slingshot Fuel 17 m as a beginner kite !! - no wind range and 5 lines just end in tears :-(

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Percvil said...

cauncy said..

Percvil said...
just depends on what you want to do in the condition you have??

Most major brands will tell you what there kites are designed to do in certain conditions.

Dont go and get a kite that wont suit your conditions because then you will have a bad kite!!!!on that apparently new cabrinha 2016 are using a cheap Chinese cloth while ozone and north still use European higher quality all construction is very good with them all.

At the end of the day its personal preference on kite brand

Pretty sure teijin that most brands use is Japanese, the t9600 canopy is widely used, the d2 ripstop was exclusive to north for a year or so but now the chosen fabric for leading brands, if what you say is correct with cabrinah then it's a daft move as they were using the premium d2 before , , IMHO all brands do a decent kite, however certain things may not be to our liking or what were used too, the rebel, the switchblade, the vx, c4, to name a few, these all stepped down in performance but are back in to how they used to be, don't forget the r&d on these kite are with very skilled riders not weekend warriors

it was merely a something i heard on the grape vine from an ozone dealer out side of aus and who is pretty honest weather its true or not im yet to work out

He's lying and isn't to be trustedthe 2016 cab range is 2dr material for 2016

I learnt on a bandit 4 while a friend learnt on a 3, both were fine to learn on IMO, the 3 had some solid grunt and boosted higher (both same size), but the 4 was a lot more refined with one pump and better quality build. Only thing that let the 3 down was its build, my friend gave up repairing it and flew it with some bladders popped and hanging out the trailing edge

Just2807 - Oh one springs to mind the North Dice 2014 !!!

Not all kites -but enough to be a worry - some kites of this vintage have their wing tips turning in to the point where the air flow is over the outside of the wingtip - looks like a twisted fanny ?? - (oh and for the forum moderators have a look at the American dictionary for twisted fanny!)

After a good look around the web seems North cant supply an answer other than a production failure ??

There's one to avoid (until North sorts its **** out!! )

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Lambie said..

Plummet - Id also have to say that people that have never actually flown a kite are really showing their stupidity side when commenting on a kite ......

So I'm stupid for stating facts about a potentially dangerous piece of kit? I have read of 3 possibly 4 deaths from people flying bandits.....Its actual facts of people dying.

There is no other one kite that stands out for killing multiple people.....

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Plummet said..

Lambie said..

Plummet - Id also have to say that people that have never actually flown a kite are really showing their stupidity side when commenting on a kite ......

So I'm stupid for stating facts about a potentially dangerous piece of kit? I have read of 3 possibly 4 deaths from people flying bandits.....Its actual facts of people dying.

There is no other one kite that stands out for killing multiple people.....

I think fact that Bandit is quite popular "mainstream" kite adds to that number.
Kite school located near power lines, sponsored by Elf kites would add to that number a lot.

Lambie if you want to pay the freight costs to get it from NZ to Aus, you can have my Bandit III for a bottle of gin, or a case of beer, you decide.

It's got a few repairs though, not mint condition haha

Funny... I just launched a guy on a crispy RRD yesterday. They are a kite I have always thought looked to fly well; and would be happy to own, but have never had the opportunity to ride. The wing tip had the bridal caught. I was surprised this still happens on wave orientated kites. The color scheme was plug ugly, but so is mine and nearly every other modern kite. All these barnd designers should have to wear a t-shirt in their kite color for a year as punishment!
There are way more bad (sometimes dangerous) control bars with unreliable and high wear parts than there are bad kites. Some should have been recalled and replaced! With kites, you just need to match your conditions to your riding style; otherwise the kite will dictate your style like a bad board.

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Chris_M said..



I have only used my Bandit III for a season then have hidden it away in storage in the deepest depths of my toy shed. That kite was a brutal piece of work. I was so pumped when I first got it, but so let down by its ridiculous grunt, poor flying characteristics, and yes, even a wingtip bridle tangle or 2 thrown in there. Survived, but not planning on geting it back out anytime soon, in fact, think its off to the glue factory sometime soon - gonna make it into bags, thats the only good use for that kite haha

Be careful, I have heard even when made into a bag the kite will still hand your butt to you on the way to the shops!

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Skid said..

Chris_M said..



I have only used my Bandit III for a season then have hidden it away in storage in the deepest depths of my toy shed. That kite was a brutal piece of work. I was so pumped when I first got it, but so let down by its ridiculous grunt, poor flying characteristics, and yes, even a wingtip bridle tangle or 2 thrown in there. Survived, but not planning on geting it back out anytime soon, in fact, think its off to the glue factory sometime soon - gonna make it into bags, thats the only good use for that kite haha

Be careful, I have heard even when made into a bag the kite will still hand your butt to you on the way to the shops!

Yeah I'm worried that the strap I make out of the kite will tangle around my neck, then the pouch part of the bag will catch a gust and power up, decapitating me

Ok I'll bite...

I have one kite that a lot of people absolutely love... but it is the only kite that I really don't like. The 2013 Naish Park 9M. I feel like the low end is pretty weak, feels like a 7M. It over sheets like crazy unless I pull about 8 inches of de power, and the power delivery has a very small "sweet spot". Also it jumps nice and explosively which I love, but drops like a damn rock. (Kiteloop experts can probably handle it fine.) Stability was pretty sketch, lots of movement in the kite even when pumped rock hard, and really finicky at times. It is however extremely fast turning and playful, but all in all just not working for me. Does it make it a bad kite? No... but for me it was a bad kite. I think that's kinda how it goes.

Yeah that's what i was wondering about.

Some RRD bars had little problem when u let go, they would get "stuck" for a second or two and then would slip to "full depower" but it often happened in the light wind and it happened really rarely. Powered bar was "slippery". I think it happened to 1950 too but it was just annoying, not actually a problem.

Some North's had problem with "mild short collapse" on main bladder in some conditions, couple of them fixed it, some still have that same problem. (not sure about year or model, i know it was 2012+, and it wasn't PSI problem if i understood well)

Yeah, that wingtip windup and that stuff, that's what i meant.

I don't expect freestyle kite to have pull like my bow while "parking and riding", not asking about who has ****ty low/high end nor do i see 5th line wrapped as "wtf" problem. U can expect that from 5th line right?

Just wondering about newer kites which have that "wtf???", like non-standard unexpected crap that could happen or just production faulty like Lambie said about 2014 Dice. By that, i mean "factory wrong" lines or longer/shorter pigtails too.

Purpose of that is avoiding that model or checking if it has the "problem" before buying, since i am beginner and have no style preferences yet, it's 100% i'll buy something i prefer very soon.

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cauncy said..

Percvil said...

cauncy said..

Percvil said...
just depends on what you want to do in the condition you have??

Most major brands will tell you what there kites are designed to do in certain conditions.

Dont go and get a kite that wont suit your conditions because then you will have a bad kite!!!!on that apparently new cabrinha 2016 are using a cheap Chinese cloth while ozone and north still use European higher quality all construction is very good with them all.

At the end of the day its personal preference on kite brand

Pretty sure teijin that most brands use is Japanese, the t9600 canopy is widely used, the d2 ripstop was exclusive to north for a year or so but now the chosen fabric for leading brands, if what you say is correct with cabrinah then it's a daft move as they were using the premium d2 before , , IMHO all brands do a decent kite, however certain things may not be to our liking or what were used too, the rebel, the switchblade, the vx, c4, to name a few, these all stepped down in performance but are back in to how they used to be, don't forget the r&d on these kite are with very skilled riders not weekend warriors

it was merely a something i heard on the grape vine from an ozone dealer out side of aus and who is pretty honest weather its true or not im yet to work out

He's lying and isn't to be trusted the 2016 cab range is 2dr material for 2016

i want the name of this ozone dealer who is lieing like that.

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bjw said..
Do you mean bad like Michael Jacksons song or his chin?

No they mean bad like the crimes Michael Jackson committed against children.

That's right. I said it!

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1950 said..

Plummet said..

Lambie said..

Plummet - Id also have to say that people that have never actually flown a kite are really showing their stupidity side when commenting on a kite ......

So I'm stupid for stating facts about a potentially dangerous piece of kit? I have read of 3 possibly 4 deaths from people flying bandits.....Its actual facts of people dying.

There is no other one kite that stands out for killing multiple people.....

I think fact that Bandit is quite popular "mainstream" kite adds to that number.
Kite school located near power lines, sponsored by Elf kites would add to that number a lot.

I have two bandit 8's...Never had a problem with bridle wrap.

I have been kiting since July-2014 so relatively new.
Got a new airush zero for light wind for a real bargain ...then found out why.
It's called a zero as there are no struts.
However, my local spot is mudflats at low tide with a walk that can easily be a couple of hundred metres.
No struts make it hard to carry. Any tips welcome!
Recommend a zephyr which sounds like a great wind with massive range and struts

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Ashley27 said..

1950 said..

I have two bandit 8's...Never had a problem with bridle wrap.

some thinks they talking about earlier model butt bandits