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NorthernKitesAUS said..
Pardon my trolling in here, but I was hoping the P4 13m would be ideal for twin tips, with more power as being a lighter kite, but so far it seems no--- it's a crap kite for twin tip, looping, jumps (boosting at least), and unhooked tricks. It's a great kite for foilers of course. Am I wrong here?

I'd agree... despite all the zealotry they are not a performance kite in that sense. Amazing for foiling, good for downwind surf sessions depending on your style of riding, and i anticipate awesome in the snow, but if you want to generate instantaneous power then you're out of luck...!

I also concur...different tools for different jobs.

Look at the Soul or Sonic for TT, much better upwind and hang time. I doubt you could hold your ground on a Peak/TT combination.

A Peak will go upwind well with a flat, fast TT (I know that from personal experience with a 13, 8, 5 and 4 meter Peak4) , but I think it would be tough with a slower, rockered, power-sucking TT. The Peak4 is definitely not a jumping kite and would be a disappointment to someone who is expecting performance in that area.

I used my 9m mono after 20+ straight sessions on mostly peak 5m. Peaks have officially ruined inflatables for me. Could not enjoy the monos lack of instant complete depower. Slowness to turn & accelerate. Heaviness in the lulls sinking back to the water. General feeling of getting out of a sports car into a truck. I'm broken now. Can't wait for the 6m

The 6m Peak4 is now available! Received plenty of 6m Peak4's and other sizes yesterday

Some cool surf foiling with a Peak4

We've had some good wind for foiling this season and some strong wind as well. Being 65kg I can get going on the 3m Peak4 in 15 knots but 25+ knots was a bit sketchy with not enough depower to avoid outrunning waves and wash off speed as fast as I liked.

I read about another couple of 3m Peak4 users changing their line length on the bar from 21-25m down to 12-14m to handle 30 knot winds with ease so yesterday when a nor-easter started gusting over 25 knots I decided to come in and shorten my lines and see how well it worked.

I have the Flysurfer Connect bar & lines which fortunately have a 7m line extension which can easily be removed reducing line length from 21m to 14m. After making the adjustment I went back out on the 3m Peak4 to feel the result. Instantly there was less power to deal with but I was still able to get up and foil without any problems. The feel was a lot more direct and the control of the kite was a little more twitchy but easy to get used to. Upwind was easy and surfing large rolling wind chop downwind was much easier. It was easier when surfing any wave to either left or right as there was more feel from the kite even when it was behind me.

There was one patch of water out in the bay which seems to have a regular and inexplicable lull and I had to work the kite through this and the board came off the foil for 5m, but if I had kept foiling through and hadn't been turning it wouldn't have been a problem. The shorter lines, as well as decreasing the power stroke, have much less drag in the wind and the back lines in particular billow back a fair bit at 21m but much less at 14m. I think this drag in high wind causes unwanted sheeting/powering up of the kite which doesn't need much pressure on the back lines to power up the kite.

So is it worth having a short line set for strong wind? For me yes. It made surf foiling in strong gusty wind easier and much more fun
I'll now have 14m & 21m bar and line sets to choose from to suit the conditions. I'll try the 4m Peak4 next with the short line set and see how it works.

I now have a few hours under my 3m Peak 4 and as someone who was initially resisting to getting this kite, I thought I'd share my take on it.

Following PrfctChaos's advice, I got myself a set of 15m lines.

I have been pairing the Peak with a Moses 683S and 450 stab.

After struggling with the bridles at first, I can now be ready and hit the water within minutes of getting onto the beach. So nice not having to carry a pump....I had a few sessions at the bottom end (15-18kn with lulls at around 12kn) of the kite which were not really enjoyable from the kite flying perspective. It worked but the upwind riding was terrible and forget about fancy 360 or tacks... Not much to be expected from a 3m in that sort of wind but at 15-18kn, my bandit S 6m is much more fun and generate the amount of lift required for manoeuvre that at the moment I cannot do with the Peak.
What is insane though, is the amount of drift you get from that little bugger in such low wind. The bandit S 6m does not even come close.
Bottom line is, for a freeride session at the low end, I'll be using my Bandit. For a downwinder, no doubt I'll be using the Peak.I also got to use it also at the top end with wind range of 22-30kn. The swell was up which was the sort of conditions I wanted to get a Peak 3m for. As expected, the drift was incredible and I could just ride the foil and pretty much forget about the kite. Really good fun!From above 25kn, there was a lot of flutter so I'd say that for me the sweet spot of that peak 3m is somewhere between 20+ and 25kn.

So far, I can honestly say that it is the only kite that has allowed me to just ride the foil on fast non breaking wind swell. The Bandit S 6m which is a pretty good drifter does not even come close ( I am comparing that one as it has a similar wind range).

Yesterday, I was riding it again at the top end and sharing the spot with an advanced wing winger. Watching that guy tearing the swell without using any wing power made me realise that this is what I really want to do.

I reckon the Peak has its place for those wanting to experience gliding on ocean lumps, downwinders, etc... Probably a stepping stone for those who want to ride the foil more than the kite and ultimately move onto wind winging. For freeride foiling, I am not sold yet unless you're happy just cruising back and forth.I think that my Peak experience is driving me toward getting a Wind Wing set up in the near future.

I am more comfortable on my 4m sst than i was on the 3m peak4, 18+kn, but i also think i didn't really give it any time and try to learn to fly it prop. I've only really done LEIs. On 683S/450 as well.

Was speaking to a local wingdinger the other day. Got me thinking..

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natho6026961 said..
I am more comfortable on my 4m sst than i was on the 3m peak4, 18+kn, but i also think i didn't really give it any time and try to learn to fly it prop. I've only really done LEIs. On 683S/450 as well.

Was speaking to a local wingdinger the other day. Got me thinking..

Did the local wing dinger get you thinking about how kite foiling waves is a waste of time and it just doesn't work. Well that's the conclusion I came to after trying for two years anyhow.

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eppo said..

natho6026961 said..
I am more comfortable on my 4m sst than i was on the 3m peak4, 18+kn, but i also think i didn't really give it any time and try to learn to fly it prop. I've only really done LEIs. On 683S/450 as well.

Was speaking to a local wingdinger the other day. Got me thinking..

Did the local wing dinger get you thinking about how kite foiling waves is a waste of time and it just doesn't work. Well that's the conclusion I came to after trying for two years anyhow.

Hmmm, I don't really agree with that, but the statement has merit. It really is about wind angle on how you can still get on to a wave and keep the kite in front without outrunning it. I have found that I have been able to ride right handers in a NE wind around my section of the coast because of the ability to point so far upwind and actually get into the wave. The kite stays in the air almost behind me. I could not do that very well with a surf board as it was always trying to pull me off the wave. And running down wind on the left handers I have learned to loop the kite with one hand without looking and having my front hand free to be in my surf stance and focusing on the wave to keep the kite moving with me.. And in saying all that, the wing ding does have it's place, and I am trying to learn that now for more open ocean swell riding.

As a kiter and now winger who chases downwind swell riding, both do it well. But you do need specific gear for kite swell riding that probably puts people off and say it doesn't work. The Peak is king if you have the location for it, considering you could be some way offshore, relaunch was the worry for me. The Cloud and UFO closely follow the Peak regarding drifting but with almost 100% relaunch.

Winging allows you to get on the swell, and physically hold the wing up, no need to drift and no relaunch issues. I'm still learning but I can see that winging is a great option for swell riding. But kite foils are so much smaller and agile, if you have the right gear kitefoiling still wins for me.

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airsail said..
I'm still learning but I can see that winging is a great option for swell riding. But kite foils are so much smaller and agile, if you have the right gear kitefoiling still wins for me.

Everyone is entitled to and will have there own opinion but I disagree with this.
I do own a peak 4 and have tried it downwinding on it, awesome bit of kit and it drifts like no other kite.
However wings win for downwinding (for me), you can truly forget about it when it is flagged out and have zero pull from it but grab it and have power and control straight away if required.
Even if you aren't looking at it you have to constantly think about where the kite is and keep a little bit of pull from it or otherwise you have no control until it catches back up to you or you turn away from it to regain tension in the lines.

Both are great fun though no doubt about that.

I've been on peaks since they came out and only 3 sessions on a wingding.

Not sure about the wingthing just yet. Massive heavy board, stupid wing in the way, right in your face, slow as balls. (And lets not discuss carrying it around and pumping up to setup ) But who knows opinion might change as skills improve on the wing.

For now getting back on the peaks and pocketboard for a good session feels like freedom. Outrunning a peak in 20 knots of wind is not a easy thing to accomplish even with bad flying technique.

Also, I would really love to test how much pull a flagged out 4m wing has, versus a depowered 3m peak in lets say 20 knots. I'd be surprised if there was a big difference. Those wings do have really fat leading edges and still have quite a bit of drag when flagged (Just try walking one up the beach in 20 knots, I could swear it was more work than walking a 3m peak up the beach).

When downwinding with the wing on a good swell it is often flagged out behind me so absolutely zero pull.

Mind you this wasn't the case last year when I was using bigger foils and going a lot slower, as your technique improves you can get going on much faster and smaller high aspect wings and smaller lighter boards.

3 session into winging that is never going to happen.



That was winging almost directly down wind but that's it from me for now, lets get back to the Peaks, yes love mine.

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eppo said..

natho6026961 said..
I am more comfortable on my 4m sst than i was on the 3m peak4, 18+kn, but i also think i didn't really give it any time and try to learn to fly it prop. I've only really done LEIs. On 683S/450 as well.

Was speaking to a local wingdinger the other day. Got me thinking..

Did the local wing dinger get you thinking about how kite foiling waves is a waste of time and it just doesn't work. Well that's the conclusion I came to after trying for two years anyhow.

Haha yeh well no but I have been thinking about that for a while, and I think I agree with you, I thought Peaks were the answer, maybe they are for some. I haven't found any local conditions where kite foiling waves/swell has really worked... Also, has never been as much fun as I thought and not that relaxing. But the wing dinger definitely left me thinking that wing dinging just makes sense in certain conditions.

Take it to the wing foiling forum you lot, this thread is for peak4 worshippers!

What is the power like on the P4 8m? I know it will fly but could I expect more power than a 10/12 tube kite which I was struggling to keep in the air.

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Alysum said..
What is the power like on the P4 8m? I know it will fly but could I expect more power than a 10/12 tube kite which I was struggling to keep in the air.

I don't know about the 8, but I have a 5 meter and can get out while 12 meter kites are on the sand. I think I could get out in 6 knots with and 8 if I had one. I am good to go around the 8 to 10 knots with a five. If you ride strapped, or with a slightly larger board then it would be easy to get going in super light conditions. Once on the foil you don't really need much to keep going.

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Alysum said..
What is the power like on the P4 8m? I know it will fly but could I expect more power than a 10/12 tube kite which I was struggling to keep in the air.

I rode one straight after coming in on my 10m soul. It had way less power than my 10m soul.

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dafish said..

Alysum said..
What is the power like on the P4 8m? I know it will fly but could I expect more power than a 10/12 tube kite which I was struggling to keep in the air.

I don't know about the 8, but I have a 5 meter and can get out while 12 meter kites are on the sand. I think I could get out in 6 knots with and 8 if I had one. I am good to go around the 8 to 10 knots with a five. If you ride strapped, or with a slightly larger board then it would be easy to get going in super light conditions. Once on the foil you don't really need much to keep going.

I'm not sure about a 5m.... there's 2 peak4 5m at my spot in Sydney and the winds aren't consistent enough to get them going hence I was wondering about the 8m for more power when my alpha 8m can't stay in the sky.

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Slack said..

Alysum said..
What is the power like on the P4 8m? I know it will fly but could I expect more power than a 10/12 tube kite which I was struggling to keep in the air.

I rode one straight after coming in on my 10m soul. It had way less power than my 10m soul.

The Soul is a beast. Totally different kite. I have flown a 10 and loved it, but would not really want to foil with it. That kite is such a great jumping machine!

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dafish said..

Alysum said..
What is the power like on the P4 8m? I know it will fly but could I expect more power than a 10/12 tube kite which I was struggling to keep in the air.

I don't know about the 8, but I have a 5 meter and can get out while 12 meter kites are on the sand. I think I could get out in 6 knots with and 8 if I had one. I am good to go around the 8 to 10 knots with a five. If you ride strapped, or with a slightly larger board then it would be easy to get going in super light conditions. Once on the foil you don't really need much to keep going.

I have the 4, 5, 6, and have ridden the 8.

Personally I think the p4 magic tops out with the 6m... Or possibly the 5m. The 5m makes up what it lacks in size with speed and power spike. As the larger sizes lose speed they disappear in a hole of 1kt gains for far less exciting kites. The 6m is fine but if I can go the 5m at any cost I will.

Personally I didn't like the 8m in comparison, but I know others do.

I'm trying to find the perfect light wind kite to step to from the p4 5m. I'm hoping to try hyperlink 9 & 11 and Nova 10 &12 next, all in ultralight. I've seen the UL novas fly and they are very responsive and turn fast and tight even in light wind, where 12m souls or race kites feel like tanks & Lei's fall out the sky in lulls.

Oh and FK wings if you can't kite they might be ok but if you can they're slow, boring, don't work in light winds, massive LE to pump, and the boards are tanks. Says me

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Alysum said..
What is the power like on the P4 8m? I know it will fly but could I expect more power than a 10/12 tube kite which I was struggling to keep in the air.

For a start I assume you're talking about using the P4 8m on a surf foil say around 1000 sq cm?
(If you're running a small freeride or race foil then the more high aspect, twin skin Soul is more suited.)

I use the 3m, 4m, 5m & 8m Peak4's and the 4m would be the one I use the most in the wind we get for my 65kg. I take the 8m out when it's so light that not only is no kiter on the beach but no kiter would even bother to go to the beach. It will fly in 3 knots and when it gets to 6 knots I can get going on my surf foil without too much effort.

However there's a law of diminishing returns in light wind kiting. Once you're up and going the apparent wind is your friend and it can feel stronger than it is. Being too casual in a gybe where you're turning downwind can lead the kite to fall out of the sky if you're forward motion is greater than the wind speed. Sharp turns and tight lines are important even with the fantastic drift of the Peak4. Ditto on waves or small swell. It's easy on a foil to outrun the kite on the wrong angle.

However on the plus side the water in light winds is much smoother and clearer which can make for a fun foil in a good location. And it's definitely easier to keep a Peak4 in the air than an inflatable kite. The light weight also makes the P4 much easier to control and turn even if you get the timing a bit wrong in light wind. The Peak4 doesn't have the power of a Soul but it's way more manoeuvrable and has much better drift which is what works great on a surf foil. In my experience I only need enough power to get out of the water. If my kite can do that it has plenty of power for everything else I want do on a surf foil. Consequently I use the smallest, fastest P4 I can in a given wind. Today that was a 3m P4 on 14m lines. (It was windy.)

If you're able to get down to Jervis Bay from Sydney, contact me and you can have a go on the 8m and see what you think.

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drsurf said..

Alysum said..
What is the power like on the P4 8m? I know it will fly but could I expect more power than a 10/12 tube kite which I was struggling to keep in the air.

For a start I assume you're talking about using the P4 8m on a surf foil say around 1000 sq cm?
(If you're running a small freeride or race foil then the more high aspect, twin skin Soul is more suited.)

I use the 3m, 4m, 5m & 8m Peak4's and the 4m would be the one I use the most in the wind we get for my 65kg. I take the 8m out when it's so light that not only is no kiter on the beach but no kiter would even bother to go to the beach. It will fly in 3 knots and when it gets to 6 knots I can get going on my surf foil without too much effort.

However there's a law of diminishing returns in light wind kiting. Once you're up and going the apparent wind is your friend and it can feel stronger than it is. Being too casual in a gybe where you're turning downwind can lead the kite to fall out of the sky if you're forward motion is greater than the wind speed. Sharp turns and tight lines are important even with the fantastic drift of the Peak4. Ditto on waves or small swell. It's easy on a foil to outrun the kite on the wrong angle.

However on the plus side the water in light winds is much smoother and clearer which can make for a fun foil in a good location. And it's definitely easier to keep a Peak4 in the air than an inflatable kite. The light weight also makes the P4 much easier to control and turn even if you get the timing a bit wrong in light wind. The Peak4 doesn't have the power of a Soul but it's way more manoeuvrable and has much better drift which is what works great on a surf foil. In my experience I only need enough power to get out of the water. If my kite can do that it has plenty of power for everything else I want do on a surf foil. Consequently I use the smallest, fastest P4 I can in a given wind. Today that was a 3m P4 on 14m lines. (It was windy.)

If you're able to get down to Jervis Bay from Sydney, contact me and you can have a go on the 8m and see what you think.

Yes surf foil 1120cm2. When it's so light I even get the 1852cm2 but it's always the kite struggling. Whether it's the alpha 8m or Reo 10m. I sold my alpha 12m, it would fly no issues but it's just way too big and I crash it on turns.

Other options would be the slingshot UFO 9m (I own the 5m for powered wind). But it doesn't have much power.

Thanks for the offer to try at Jervis Bay.

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Alysum said..

drsurf said..

Alysum said..
What is the power like on the P4 8m? I know it will fly but could I expect more power than a 10/12 tube kite which I was struggling to keep in the air.

For a start I assume you're talking about using the P4 8m on a surf foil say around 1000 sq cm?
(If you're running a small freeride or race foil then the more high aspect, twin skin Soul is more suited.)

I use the 3m, 4m, 5m & 8m Peak4's and the 4m would be the one I use the most in the wind we get for my 65kg. I take the 8m out when it's so light that not only is no kiter on the beach but no kiter would even bother to go to the beach. It will fly in 3 knots and when it gets to 6 knots I can get going on my surf foil without too much effort.

However there's a law of diminishing returns in light wind kiting. Once you're up and going the apparent wind is your friend and it can feel stronger than it is. Being too casual in a gybe where you're turning downwind can lead the kite to fall out of the sky if you're forward motion is greater than the wind speed. Sharp turns and tight lines are important even with the fantastic drift of the Peak4. Ditto on waves or small swell. It's easy on a foil to outrun the kite on the wrong angle.

However on the plus side the water in light winds is much smoother and clearer which can make for a fun foil in a good location. And it's definitely easier to keep a Peak4 in the air than an inflatable kite. The light weight also makes the P4 much easier to control and turn even if you get the timing a bit wrong in light wind. The Peak4 doesn't have the power of a Soul but it's way more manoeuvrable and has much better drift which is what works great on a surf foil. In my experience I only need enough power to get out of the water. If my kite can do that it has plenty of power for everything else I want do on a surf foil. Consequently I use the smallest, fastest P4 I can in a given wind. Today that was a 3m P4 on 14m lines. (It was windy.)

If you're able to get down to Jervis Bay from Sydney, contact me and you can have a go on the 8m and see what you think.

Yes surf foil 1120cm2. When it's so light I even get the 1852cm2 but it's always the kite struggling. Whether it's the alpha 8m or Reo 10m. I sold my alpha 12m, it would fly no issues but it's just way too big and I crash it on turns.

Other options would be the slingshot UFO 9m (I own the 5m for powered wind). But it doesn't have much power.

Thanks for the offer to try at Jervis Bay.

Kitepower has Peak 5m and Ozone Explore V2 6m in demo.

Peak review here


And Explore V2 here

Nice to see an update on the Explorer! V1 for me was disappointing, did not loop fast and just didn't seem very refined. This was the reason I ultimately went with the Peak 4 5 meter. Look forward to hearing the feedback from the V2.

After waiting for some light wind less than 8 knots, I took the demo 13m Peak4 for a test. For my 65kg it's overkill but I wanted to see how it flew with my surf foil.
Apart from the size it was the same setup as my smaller Peak4's and I used the 50cm Flysurfer Connect bar.
Once in the air from an easy hot launch it felt like I had plenty of power even in the lulls. Easily up on the foil and cruising with kite on my way to the first test, turning the kite in a downwind gybe where poor timing could lead to slack lines and a collapse.
Knowing the kite would turn slower than a smaller size, I turned the kite hard a bit lower in the window so it would have a long power stroke across the window to keep the kite powered through the turn. No problems, but I did fish pole the bar to get as faster turn as possible. A 60cm bar wouldn't hurt with a kite this size.

I was able to surf boat wakes and residual swell downwind with the kite on the right angle and had no trouble foiling back upwind. The gusts would have been around 9 knots and lulls around 5 knots but I had no problem at either end of this wind range with the kite. Would like to try even lighter wind to see how low I can go. With inexpensive lightweight kites and hydrofoils, it's amazing how little wind you need to have fun. Remembering days past on windsurfers or surface slapping kite boards, just waiting for enough wind to stay upwind

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drsurf said..
After waiting for some light wind less than 8 knots, I took the demo 13m Peak4 for a test. For my 65kg it's overkill but I wanted to see how it flew with my surf foil.
Apart from the size it was the same setup as my smaller Peak4's and I used the 50cm Flysurfer Connect bar.
Once in the air from an easy hot launch it felt like I had plenty of power even in the lulls. Easily up on the foil and cruising with kite on my way to the first test, turning the kite in a downwind gybe where poor timing could lead to slack lines and a collapse.
Knowing the kite would turn slower than a smaller size, I turned the kite hard a bit lower in the window so it would have a long power stroke across the window to keep the kite powered through the turn. No problems, but I did fish pole the bar to get as faster turn as possible. A 60cm bar wouldn't hurt with a kite this size.

I was able to surf boat wakes and residual swell downwind with the kite on the right angle and had no trouble foiling back upwind. The gusts would have been around 9 knots and lulls around 5 knots but I had no problem at either end of this wind range with the kite. Would like to try even lighter wind to see how low I can go. With inexpensive lightweight kites and hydrofoils, it's amazing how little wind you need to have fun. Remembering days past on windsurfers or surface slapping kite boards, just waiting for enough wind to stay upwind

Hey DR & crew
The P4 -13m I trialled in 4 - 8kts.
Have wind gauge proof photo.
105kgs 20 odd Ltrs carbonco board.
Armie CF1200,85cm mast, 60 fuse,30cm stab
Have replaced the bar for wider 60cm, and 24 lines with 19m including bridles in total.
That made the cumbersome 13m P4 turn and respond quicker.
Easy to launch straight up and just sat there.
Grabbed the gear and dived it once,straight up then onto foil in one motion in no more than 4-5kts.
Water was so calm,no white caps at all.
The 13m P4 is a truck carrying my big payload easily
way up the Shark bay beach for about 3klms on
apparent wind.
So time came to turn which went badly,fell off turned the board around to return but couldn't water start with slack lines kite still barely flying so drifted in then did the walk of shame 3klms back to my starting point.
Darling wife saying how come you didn't foil back.
Made up an excuse.
Wanted to look for Pippies up the beach.:)
Like you mentioned DR an 8m P4 is probably big enough for your size but I use my 11-13mP4 more in super light wind being over 100kgs.
They are on their own for drift and ease of use.