Another awesome little Peak 4 session this morning between 9-10am. Wind built from 15-18 kts, I did 11km on the foil. Only 2 other guys out, riding 12's on TT.
Such a sweet little kite - at my weight (95), in that wind strength, I was perfectly powered for easy water starts and good upwind angles

Newbie Question ..... could you catch a wave or swell on a surf foil with one of these kites,let go of the bar and surf the wave without having to worry about paying any attention to the kite until you were ready to tack back out ?
If so then I would think this would be a good alternative to wind winging on a foil ?

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kobo said..
Newbie Question ..... could you catch a wave or swell on a surf foil with one of these kites,let go of the bar and surf the wave without having to worry about paying any attention to the kite until you were ready to tack back out ?
If so then I would think this would be a good alternative to wind winging on a foil ?

Not really. It will do it better than any other kite I know of but you will still need to keep it steered up and can't ride the swell faster than windspeed like you can with a wing.

Ok thanks, I prone foil and kite foil, and find it frustrating with the kite because it's so easy to slack line and back stall the kite especially in light winds when on a wave.

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kobo said..
Newbie Question ..... could you catch a wave or swell on a surf foil with one of these kites,let go of the bar and surf the wave without having to worry about paying any attention to the kite until you were ready to tack back out ?
If so then I would think this would be a good alternative to wind winging on a foil ?

You can for short periods, eg , no hands on bar and you won't get slack lines. I have done this when riding swell directly downwind. But the kite will gradually fall to the side, it won't automatically stay at the zenith. It is better at this than any other kite I have used.
I have read where winging directly down wind is a pain, you lose the wind to hold the wingding up.

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kobo said..
Newbie Question ..... could you catch a wave or swell on a surf foil with one of these kites,let go of the bar and surf the wave without having to worry about paying any attention to the kite until you were ready to tack back out ?
If so then I would think this would be a good alternative to wind winging on a foil ?

The Peak4 is very close to the capability you desire especially in the 3,4 & 5m sizes. Unlike the Peter Lynn Arc kites which auto zenith, the Peak4 kites will gradually fall to one side or the other. However you can control, depower and steer these kites with one hand and with very little effort. With the 3m just a twitch of the wrist will keep the kite where it needs to be and with a little practice it becomes automatic as you can feel where the kite is and keep it under control.

When you catch a swell, even if you're heading straight downwind, you can with a few easy turns, keep the kite ahead and above you as the kite won't slack line and hindenburg like an inflatable kite. So you can do a downwinder with just enough tension on the kite lines to keep it in the air, but it's hardly pulling you along. You're relying on the swell for most of your power and can ride the wave, pump onto another wave and the kite is hardly noticeable.

With the Peak4 and a good surf foil, to get the best foil surfing experience use the smallest Peak4 you can. I was out yesterday in gusty erratic winds on a Peak4 3m when most TT kiters were on a 12m LEI kite. When getting out of the water onto the board I had to flog the kite across the window quite a few times to get up on the board and then onto the foil. However once foiling the apparent wind gave me plenty of power to go upwind and out the back to catch some wind swell and ride it to the shore downwind and repeat until the soles of my feet were numb. (Too much toeside/heelside action).

Gusty wind is much easier to handle with the Peak4 than any other kite I've tried and I'm still amazed at how little wind I need to foil easily with them. With my 65kg and Moses 633 foil, rule of thumb seems to be use a Peak4 one half to one third the size of what the average kite size the TT LEI kiters are using When compared to wind winging I'd have to say it's a much better alternative if you compare the following:
- You only need a lightweight small board (I have an Axis 110cm Tray), so much more manoeuvrable and fun. Also cheaper than a small foil SUP and easy to stick in the car.
- Bugger all physical effort with the kite. No hard pumping get onto the foil.
- The small Peak4 kites are cheaper than a wind wing, can use most 4 line bars and all weigh well under 1kg
- You can use a smaller Peak4 than a wind wing and get going in lighter winds. I'm good with the 5m Peak4 in 8 to 10 knots but so is one of my kiting friends around 80kg who uses his 5m Peak4 on a Spitfire foil.
- No pumping up, just unroll kite and lines, launch and go

I could go on but I do enough of that. Just try one and you'll know why there are virtually no used Peak4 kites for sale secondhand and why the manufacture of the Peak4 is flat out trying to keep up with demand.
If you're near the South Coast of NSW feel free to contact me for a demo.

Thanks drsurf, I'm fine with foiling downwind on the swell with no power from the kite , with it drifting along , that would be the ultimate , it's hard to imagine in light wind especially ,that I wouldn't be going down wind faster on the foil than the kite would be able to keep up with, but I haven't tried the peak4 either so you got me wanting to.
Cheers Kobo

My Foil-sup is already innt he garage. Now I only need to buy a peak4 4m (for wind of 17-25 knt at 90kg with 2200cm wing) and shorten the lines to appr. 2m and try that instead of tzat wingding.
Is Gunnar really the only person on earth who already tried this stuff, cannot believe?

I have the 8m.. Bought to target se qld light winter winds. I have hesitated going out when gusts will go over 20knts (top end of range)..
The main point is capacity to drift and handle gusts. It does both v.well. A key point is how peak develops power...
It is very controllable and can be depowered to stop surging power zone jerks common to LEIs..
Lakes locally are frequently v.gusty. a couple of days ago.. Deliberately choose to be overpowered so 12m Reo.. Hoping to have kite high most of time.. It was g8 on up wind beats with a few yank offs due to power.. But every other angle off the wind it was excruciating...
Picture is wind trace yesterday was out from 13:00 - 15:00. On Peak4 I clocked over 24kms and had a ball.. Very very easy to handle gusts. Up down and across.. 4 my skill set.. Good kite crap on foil.. Sensational... The only problem. When i fanged a sludge bank I had a longer than normal walk back to deep water..200m

Tick from me
Cheers
AP

Be great to see some vid of a peak4 in action ,drifting down the line to show what it can do ?

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kobo said..
Thanks drsurf, I'm fine with foiling downwind on the swell with no power from the kite , with it drifting along , that would be the ultimate , it's hard to imagine in light wind especially ,that I wouldn't be going down wind faster on the foil than the kite would be able to keep up with, but I haven't tried the peak4 either so you got me wanting to.
Cheers Kobo

Going downwind faster than the wind will mean you may have to work the Peak4 by looping it or flying it across the window to maintain apparent wind. It's not hard to do this and you can have the kite deliver minimum power while working the kite this way so it doesn't diminish the foil surfing experience. Also I'm pretty sure that you won't have conditions that give you a constant wave going downwind for hundreds of metres which you'll just want to park and ride on. When using a Peak4 you can have a small, light, agile board, say 120-130cm, and cut across the wave, cutback and turn and milk it to the end before hunting down another swell. Doing this alone will keep the kite lines tight enough to keep the kite in the air most of the time you are heading downwind ripping across the swells as you go..

I've been using Axis boards, a 125cm MV and now one of the new Axis Tray boards. The MV boards were light but the Tray's are 2.5kg and less! You hardly know the board is there as you turn as there's virtually no swing weight These boards are well made, beautifully designed by Axis Guru Adrian Roper and inexpensive. Got them in stock now as well as the MV. The money you can save on a Peak4 can get you a better board

The Peak4 is extremely light compared to other kites so it doesn't drop fast, giving you plenty of time to respond.
When you try a Peak4 you'll know what I mean.

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pampel said..
My Foil-sup is already innt he garage. Now I only need to buy a peak4 4m (for wind of 17-25 knt at 90kg with 2200cm wing) and shorten the lines to appr. 2m and try that instead of tzat wingding.
Is Gunnar really the only person on earth who already tried this stuff, cannot believe?

I don't know why you would want to run the Peak4 on 2m lines??
The reason why a Peak4 works so well as a small kite is because you can use the whole wind window with standard line lengths, (say 21m), and get enough power to do what ever you want with control. I'm talking about winds that would be too light for a wind wing/ding thing.
Even if the wind is really gusty at different heights the Peak4 handles really well. You can also use a much smaller board than a SUP because the kite can provide enough power to get you up on the foil.
Once again try a Peak4 and you'll see what I mean.

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kobo said..
Be great to see some vid of a peak4 in action ,drifting down the line to show what it can do ?

Yeah, you and me both. One good video would save a lot of typing
Sooner or later some good foiler on a Peak4 will find a good drone operator...
Where I kite is near Naval Aircraft facilities, pretty restricted air space for a casual drone operator.

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pampel said..
My Foil-sup is already innt he garage. Now I only need to buy a peak4 4m (for wind of 17-25 knt at 90kg with 2200cm wing) and shorten the lines to appr. 2m and try that instead of tzat wingding.
Is Gunnar really the only person on earth who already tried this stuff, cannot believe?

it would be a worthwhile experiment and very useful when a failed relaunch is not an option. I have had a few swims with the Peak so won't use it in rolling wind swell some distance off shore as it is just too risky. They relaunch well as long as you maintain line tension but if swamped by a breaking wave I have had to roll it up and swim in.
Not that you drop them very often, but one fail in this location would result in a coast guard call out. Ultra short lines would allow for an on water reset and definitely worth pursuing, keep us updated.

Hmm. This kite sounds really interesting however I've never flown a Foil kite and new it's pretty cheap.. Do u need to buy a different/specific bar to fly the kite to get the most out of it? I've just got the standard Duotone Click bar with 22m lines.

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drsurf said..

kobo said..
Be great to see some vid of a peak4 in action ,drifting down the line to show what it can do ?

Yeah, you and me both. One good video would save a lot of typing
Sooner or later some good foiler on a Peak4 will find a good drone operator...
Where I kite is near Naval Aircraft facilities, pretty restricted air space for a casual drone operator.

Even just some footage from the beach or headland would do

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Jonny316 said..
Hmm. This kite sounds really interesting however I've never flown a Foil kite and new it's pretty cheap.. Do u need to buy a different/specific bar to fly the kite to get the most out of it? I've just got the standard Duotone Click bar with 22m lines.

Works fine. But shorter lines are better when carving on a wave cos you can position the kite more quickly.

There are a number of regulars using peaks with foilboards at my local and like the posters in this thread all seem very happy with their kites. Looking at it from the beach and bearing in mind the type of foilboarding session I have (boosting) I can only see disadvantages with this style and size kite over a traditional foil kite, which I use. Does anyone boost with a peak/foilboard combo ?
I must be missing something.

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snalberski said..
There are a number of regulars using peaks with foilboards at my local and like the posters in this thread all seem very happy with their kites. Looking at it from the beach and bearing in mind the type of foilboarding session I have (boosting) I can only see disadvantages with this style and size kite over a traditional foil kite, which I use. Does anyone boost with a peak/foilboard combo ?
I must be missing something.

Doesn't boost, wave/swell riding only

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airsail said..

pampel said..
My Foil-sup is already innt he garage. Now I only need to buy a peak4 4m (for wind of 17-25 knt at 90kg with 2200cm wing) and shorten the lines to appr. 2m and try that instead of tzat wingding.
Is Gunnar really the only person on earth who already tried this stuff, cannot believe?

it would be a worthwhile experiment and very useful when a failed relaunch is not an option. I have had a few swims with the Peak so won't use it in rolling wind swell some distance off shore as it is just too risky. They relaunch well as long as you maintain line tension but if swamped by a breaking wave I have had to roll it up and swim in.
Not that you drop them very often, but one fail in this location would result in a coast guard call out. Ultra short lines would allow for an on water reset and definitely worth pursuing, keep us updated.

That is exactly what I was thinking about. So that you can even go out with a small foil sup out in gusty offshore chop free water or small waves, and even in case something goes wrong, either you try to restart from board with these short lines or you quickly assemble the whole stuff, put it below your chest and paddle back to shore and restart. No hassle with long lines and ceazy swim back in no volume board...

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airsail said..

snalberski said..
There are a number of regulars using peaks with foilboards at my local and like the posters in this thread all seem very happy with their kites. Looking at it from the beach and bearing in mind the type of foilboarding session I have (boosting) I can only see disadvantages with this style and size kite over a traditional foil kite, which I use. Does anyone boost with a peak/foilboard combo ?
I must be missing something.

Doesn't boost, wave/swell riding only

This is a myth perpetuated online repeatedly. I have friends who love jumping with their Peak 4's.

If this continues I'll just have to buy one.
Let me check the $.

I bought one a few weeks back, PEak4 5 meter. At 82 kilos I can get out in 8 to 10 knots easy, can handle it to about 15 to 18 knots if I am lazy and don't swap down (erhhh up I mean). I regularly march straight down wind and with speed without ever having to worry about the kite. This kite does pivot nicely when you loop, so you can easily outrun the kite and have it chase you back with a few loops. On down wind reaches you can just park the kite and run.
Little disclosure here, I am a small time rep for Ozone on the south coast. I tried the Ozone Explore wanting to stay on brand. I did not like the kite for this purpose. It loops too slow for my liking which makes it harder to start in light conditions. I guess if you had a bigger board (mine is the sweet little Nang from Carbonco,) and had straps you could get going eventually. But strapless I need to get up on the wing from the first downloop or forget it.
I would have loved to demo the Gin Shaman, but I couldn't find anywhere to check them out. That kite can be a contender too I think. Saying that, the Peak4 is an awesome piece of development and I am pretty stoked with it. And for what it's worth I have it set up with 21 metre lines. The bridle mixer is long, so it really works out to be nearly 25 meters all up. Other issue you might wonder is whether the kite will fly with a low v bar, and yes it does. I flew the FLysurfer bar and my Ozone bar back to back and did not notice the difference in performance or looping quality.
It is amazing to be out marching upwind when all other kites, including 17 metre kites parked on the beach.

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dafish said..
I bought one a few weeks back, PEak4 5 meter. At 82 kilos I can get out in 8 to 10 knots easy, can handle it to about 15 to 18 knots if I am lazy and don't swap down (erhhh up I mean). I regularly march straight down wind and with speed without ever having to worry about the kite. This kite does pivot nicely when you loop, so you can easily outrun the kite and have it chase you back with a few loops. On down wind reaches you can just park the kite and run.
Little disclosure here, I am a small time rep for Ozone on the south coast. I tried the Ozone Explore wanting to stay on brand. I did not like the kite for this purpose. It loops too slow for my liking which makes it harder to start in light conditions. I guess if you had a bigger board (mine is the sweet little Nang from Carbonco,) and had straps you could get going eventually. But strapless I need to get up on the wing from the first downloop or forget it.
I would have loved to demo the Gin Shaman, but I couldn't find anywhere to check them out. That kite can be a contender too I think. Saying that, the Peak4 is an awesome piece of development and I am pretty stoked with it. And for what it's worth I have it set up with 21 metre lines. The bridle mixer is long, so it really works out to be nearly 25 meters all up. Other issue you might wonder is whether the kite will fly with a low v bar, and yes it does. I flew the FLysurfer bar and my Ozone bar back to back and did not notice the difference in performance or looping quality.
It is amazing to be out marching upwind when all other kites, including 17 metre kites parked on the beach.

I'm looking at buying a Peak 4 in the new year. I have an Ozone Reo 6m and a Hyperlink 9m. I'm 82kgs so I'm thinking the 4m P4 will be the way to go as it sounds as though the 5m will fill the wind range of the Hyperlink pretty well (10 - 15kts). I'm riding a Moses 633 on a strapless 112cm board. Would you agree on the wind range overlap of the 5m P4 and the HL?

As extension to Duke's Q above, anyone got any summaries on wind ranges for the 3m, 4m and 5m P4's, using say a Moses 633 wing size as reference (1200cm2)?

8-10 knts has always been dodgy with my 9m mono strut, doable on flat water, but still marginal. Not at beach though. I've got an oldish 10m ram air kite and it didn't work for me the couple of times I tried at the beach. Could be the kite needs tweaking.. Seems crazy that a 5m kite could possibly do the job.

In reply to Duke and then Natho.

Duke, the 5m Peak4 will overlap with your 9m Hyperlink to some extent but they are such different kites that they can't be compared. You wouldn't be able to manoeuvre the Hyperlink on a wave the way you can a Peak4 or just foil surf with virtually no kite pull as the kite just gets out of way if you want. I'd go for the 5m Peak4 initially because it will overlap with both your kites and that's a good thing, as in my experience you'll really enjoy it. The biggest decision you'll have to make after that is which size Peak4 to get next

Natho, the wind range from my experience and that of dafish who has a few more kgs than me, would indicate that a Peak4 5m would largely cover your 9m mono strut. The wind dafish and myself ride in is a consistent seabreeze and we both can work the 8-10 knot bottom of the range even with different weights on different hydrofoils. The Moses 633 is great in low winds and the Peak4 will stay in the air even at 4 knots. The Peak4 may feel a bit underpowered when you are waterstarting but when you are up and foiling it creates plenty of apparent wind and feels a lot more powerful. And you can catch waves & wind swell and easily keep the kite in the air compared to an inflatable kite. A 5m Peak4 only weighs 880 grams.
I can use my 3m Peak4 from around 14 knots to 25 knots and I would assume, (as I don't have the 4m Peak4), the 4m would fit in between.
Waiting for the next shipment of Peak4 kites so I can try the 8m and see how low I can go.

However talk is cheap, you just need to try one than it will make sense.
I gave another kiter, who has been foiling for just a few months, a go on my 5m Peak4 this week. When he finally came in he wanted one and bought the last 5m I had in stock. He was able to do toeside turns, which he was struggling with, much easier and loved the switch off depower capability which gave him a lot more confidence than previous kites.
This reaction is what I have found repeatedly. It's a try it you'll like it kite

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DukeSilver said..

dafish said..
I bought one a few weeks back, PEak4 5 meter. At 82 kilos I can get out in 8 to 10 knots easy, can handle it to about 15 to 18 knots if I am lazy and don't swap down (erhhh up I mean). I regularly march straight down wind and with speed without ever having to worry about the kite. This kite does pivot nicely when you loop, so you can easily outrun the kite and have it chase you back with a few loops. On down wind reaches you can just park the kite and run.
Little disclosure here, I am a small time rep for Ozone on the south coast. I tried the Ozone Explore wanting to stay on brand. I did not like the kite for this purpose. It loops too slow for my liking which makes it harder to start in light conditions. I guess if you had a bigger board (mine is the sweet little Nang from Carbonco,) and had straps you could get going eventually. But strapless I need to get up on the wing from the first downloop or forget it.
I would have loved to demo the Gin Shaman, but I couldn't find anywhere to check them out. That kite can be a contender too I think. Saying that, the Peak4 is an awesome piece of development and I am pretty stoked with it. And for what it's worth I have it set up with 21 metre lines. The bridle mixer is long, so it really works out to be nearly 25 meters all up. Other issue you might wonder is whether the kite will fly with a low v bar, and yes it does. I flew the FLysurfer bar and my Ozone bar back to back and did not notice the difference in performance or looping quality.
It is amazing to be out marching upwind when all other kites, including 17 metre kites parked on the beach.

I'm looking at buying a Peak 4 in the new year. I have an Ozone Reo 6m and a Hyperlink 9m. I'm 82kgs so I'm thinking the 4m P4 will be the way to go as it sounds as though the 5m will fill the wind range of the Hyperlink pretty well (10 - 15kts). I'm riding a Moses 633 on a strapless 112cm board. Would you agree on the wind range overlap of the 5m P4 and the HL?

I would agree about getting a 5 meter. The Hyperlink is a great kite, and quite a boosty little beast, but not agile like the Peak4. Not even close. If you want a kite you can loop one handed and never have to worry about it falling out of the sky, this is the kite, a great piece of gear. If I was going out into the ocean further than I would like to swim, I would be on the Hyperlink, at least that kite will relaunch where the Peak4 is dicey at the best of times. Dr. Surf has had to swim in a few times, luckily not too far.

I've got the Peak4 8 metre and I find it perfect for low winds. I'm about 85kg (90 with gear?) and it works down to around the 8-10kt mark. I tried the 5 metre and it would fly in that wind but I felt like I had to work the kite too much to get going and in turns. I can use the 8 until the wind is a bit over 15kts and I usually swap to my LEI then. I suspect the 4 metre Peak would slot into that range nicely.

Thanks for the replies guys. I guess my needs for a Peak 4 are in the 15 - 25kt range. While I understand that the 5m will make it possible to use it in place of my 9m HL for wave / downwinders, the reality is that in Perth's summer wind season, most of my riding will be in winds between 17 - 23kts. If I get the 5m, it may spend a lot of windy days in it's bag while I rig up (ironically) a kite that's 1m larger - my 6m Reo. I think the decision may be between the 3m and the 4m. I will no doubt end up with 2 or 3 Peaks eventually.

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dafish said..
Dr. Surf has had to swim in a few times, luckily not too far.

Chuckle, yes I have done two or three swims, all with the 3m Peak4. First time another kiter took my kite down with his, said my 3m was too small to see . The other one or two times I went from the 5m Peak4 or Soul kite to the 3m and did not adjust for the speed difference, spun it and drove it into the sea .

With that in mind, I wouldn't offer someone a demo of a 3m Peak4 without making sure they knew what they were going to be experiencing. Whereas with the 5m Peak4, anyone who can fly a kite reasonably well will find it easy, and my 5m has never got wet from myself or others giving it a demo.

But the 3m Peak4 is a sweet kite in its wind range. Fingertip control and the best surf foiling experience. I use it as much as the 5m which is probably due to living in an area that has good wind. However, like some other lightweight kitefoilers, I would consider buying a 2 or 2.5m Peak4 if one was made. Would be fun in 25 knots plus