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dafish said..
Okay, gamechanger....Today I borrowed Dr Surfs Peak in a 5 metre. Earlier I had been on the Hyperlink 12 and it was 8 to 10 knots. Well powered up and did my usual "Upwinder" in these light winds. I like doing this as the water is so smooth and on the downwind reach there is no sound, just smooth and quiet water to blast down with. However, long reaches of 6 to 10 kilometres gets a tad tedious for me, I prefer to carve around more, gybe, switch stance to mix it up and not fatigue the body.
Soooo, I come in and swap out for the 5 Peak and I fly it for 30 seconds on the beach, feels good, so I head out. Now Dr Surf is 20 kilos lighter than me. I am on a Paipo with the Spitfire xlw wings. And I get up and riding. Straight away. Powered nicely, upwind nicely, and then down the beach for some tiny swell riding straight down wind. Nice tight little loops, (though I did stall the power a few times in my loops, but generally was able to get bursts of speed whenever I dialed in the tap. I suspect I could have this wired in one more session). This was sensational. It was 8 knots, with the odd puff of 10 max, and I am zipping around like nobodies business on a 5 meter kite. And a nimble one at that. All I can say it I have to rethink my strategy now on single skin kites. This is truly a revelation.
Now I don't foil on a big surf wing, and the xlw wings don't pump, but they carve like mofo's. If you ride a surf wing and isn't power hungry there would be times you never knew the kite existed in front of you. If you have not had a chance to try such a small kite in lighter winds, I suspect you would be quite surprised how small you can go with efficient foiling techniques. Damn.....

I wanted to try one before I read that........I REALLY want to try one now!

I really like The OK Kiteboarder. Here's his take.

Thought i would share this here. Since the most common question i get asked when coming in with a peak is "but how often doesn't it relaunce?". Usually answered that i only go as far out as im willing to swim and it's never been a issue (since it relaunches easily if there is tension in the lines.).

Well it had the ultimate relaunch test today, kite was 100% completely submerged.

Was having a great time with the 4m this arvo. When the connection to my harness gave away (safety line doesn't get used with my peaks, they dont go very far in anycase when released.). The kite landed about 100m away, blowing at least 20 knots. A few minutes later when i swam to the kite it was fully submerged. Considered packing up and swimming to shore, but was curious to try resetting it in the water for a relaunch.

So pulled it up, lifted the leading edge above the water and arranged it to catch some wind. Made some mistakes the first 2 tries, but on the third try it relaunches beautifully and was able to continue foiling like normal.

So if everything goes wrong and you miss the oppertunity for the easy relaunce, all is not lost. I would recommend trying this tecnique, swimming to the kite and arranging it for a water relaunch. Might help prevent a long swim. Glad i had some time to test the option today, might come in handy in the future.

Can you give more details about swimming to kite and relaunching. What is going on with your lines while you are doing this?

FWIW my relaunch success rate is about 50%.

I just reconnected the bar to my harness (Carbon bar that floats, so it was easy to find). Then swam around the lines to the kite, approaching it from the side. Sitting on the board, lifted the far end wingtip above the surface. As the wind catches the leading edge, more of the leading edge lifts out and fills with air. Then lift the centre, then the closest wingtip. It just sits there once it has some air in it.

It was easiest to lay the kite out with its top surface on the water, leading edge facing up, with the bottom opening of the leading edge facing upwind (Trailing edge facing upwind).

Then just swim back upwind (around the lines) until the lines start to tension. And there you go it relaunches.

The first 2 attempts only failed because I did not properly lay the whole leading edge above the water. If the wind only catches one half it gets twisted around.

Was very happy with the whole episode. The peak is very easy to handle in the water. An inflatable would have only stopped at the beach if the main lines snapped, which would've left me with long swim, but the peak just sat there in the water, while i took a short swim to get to it.

Went down to the beach this afternoon and could only get 6-9 knots on my wind meter on the shore. No-one else out so I was tossing up whether to even bother rigging up. The wind was supposed to be a bit stronger, though not a lot more, but at least a seabreeze is steady.

Decided to rig the 5m Peak4 rather than the 10m Soul. Turned to be the best decision, even though the wind only occasionally gusted up a knot or two more, I had plenty of power at all times. A friend turned up and rigged his 17m Zephyr and a large TT board and managed just to stay upwind. Meanwhile I could rip upwind, foil some small swell downwind with a drifting kite and repeat. A fair bit of weed was annoying but every time I stopped and removed the weed, just one flick of the kite had me back up on the foil. Really loving this kite in light wind
Checked the wind strength again when I came in and it was 8-10 knots. I would assume there was a bit more wind further out but I had plenty of power even at the shorebreak.

If someone had told me even a year ago that my light wind kite would would only be 5m and my strong wind kite 3m I would have called bullsh!t. But now, the Peak4 Kool Aid has changed that. The rest of the quiver has seen very little use lately...

How much do the peak 4s run for?

Had a go on a peak 4 11m in the kite buggy around 5-8 knots.

The Kite was slow to turn and poor upwind. It was a lot slower than my 12 chrono which I think is a slow turning kite.

It it was curiously good down wind and refused to luff and floated very well. Power output was smooth.

But the slow turning and poor upwind is a deal breaker for me. I'll need to see higher performance in those areas before I consider a single skin.

I did see that this type of kite could be good on the foil.

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Plummet said..
Had a go on a peak 4 11m in the kite buggy around 5-8 knots.

The Kite was slow to turn and poor upwind. It was a lot slower than my 12 chrono which I think is a slow turning kite.

It it was curiously good down wind and refused to luff and floated very well. Power output was smooth.

But the slow turning and poor upwind is a deal breaker for me. I'll need to see higher performance in those areas before I consider a single skin.

I did see that this type of kite could be good on the foil.

You can't extrapolate performance characteristics between different size Peaks. The single skin concept needs wind velocity to work properly (much more than kites that have air in the leading edge) and work amazingly well in higher winds. The Peak 4 in 3,4 and 5 meters are completely different kites than the 8 meter. The 11 meter should be called something else. Peak 4's are not good light wind kites.

Agree with emmafoils re the best kites are 3,4, & 5m Peak4's. Each size kite has a sweet spot where it performs at its best.
However I used the 5m Peak4 in 8-10 knot winds yesterday and whenever we have a light seabreeze, with out any problems, and for a TT kiter that's light wind. But they are best with a decent sized surf foil to match your weight.

The 11m size is relevant to me as that is a size I would use in s kite buggy. The comparison to the chrono is also relevant as that's my current light wind foil and buggy kite. I'll admit I was a bit disappointed the kite didn't have better low end performance. I could give away some upwind and turning speed. But not that much. That gap as too big.

I will watch this space and see how they improve in the coming years and if I get a chance I'll try the smaller sizes.

When people learn that Peak 4s are extremely light and stay in the air in very low winds, they naturally think great "light wind " kite. Paradoxically, that is a mistake, in my opinion. Because they have no air cells, each Peak 4 size works best in the upper ends of its wind range. This is true even in the smaller sizes. They just struggle too much going upwind when underpowered.

In the buggy event I attended on the weekend there was 4 different types of single skin. Peak 4 11m. Ozone explore 4m, peter Lynn fixed bridle prototypes and born race star kites. I didn't get to fly the pl or ozone but buggied next to them for 10 hours in an epic day through the dunes. I was powered on my old 2012 6m reo. The single skins didn't go upwind as well as my old reo nore did they have the same top speed. But we rode through some pretty heinous turbulent wind as we were riding offshore wind with hills and pine trees exc upwind. The reo and the single skins did really well through the turbulence.

The born kite has closer unwinding performance to the Lei's I fly but it gives away some stability.

After talking to the guys who use the single skins and flying a few myself my general conclusion is that the convenience of them is good and they generally have great stability and drift but you sacrifice upwind and turning performance.

I recon with a few more years development these kites will be really interesting if they can manage to improve performance while retaining stability.

And for those wondering was the relevance is between kite buggy and hydro foiling. They are both very similar it power required, efficiency and upwind ability.

The buggy is faster, can be flown in lighter winds and once hardwired (you harness the kite directly to the buggy) can hold more power.

I'm generally running ove kite size higher in that buggy than I would on the foil in the same wind.

Essentially the kite buggy is the hydrofoil of the land and vise, versa.

I did not want to believe all the hype for this kite but yesterday I got the 8m demo from Actionsports.. ohhh boy...

This thing is Magical, wind was about 10-12 knots in Pinaroo point, it was really hard at first trying to waterstart I was working out the timing and how to fly the kite better to get me out of the water.

yes it does flap a bit.... yes if you drop it chances are you are not going to relaunch again, but the feeling of going fully downwind and the kite just stays up in the air... wow...

Gybes were no issues as well... I would just carve downwind and because the kite stays there... no need to downloop or do sharp carves.. just enjoy.

I will be getting some peaks after this. Just working out what sizes...

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LuigiKiter said..
I did not want to believe all the hype for this kite but yesterday I got the 8m demo from Actionsports.. ohhh boy...

This thing is Magical, wind was about 10-12 knots in Pinaroo point, it was really hard at first trying to waterstart I was working out the timing and how to fly the kite better to get me out of the water.

yes it does flap a bit.... yes if you drop it chances are you are not going to relaunch again, but the feeling of going fully downwind and the kite just stays up in the air... wow...

Gybes were no issues as well... I would just carve downwind and because the kite stays there... no need to downloop or do sharp carves.. just enjoy.

I will be getting some peaks after this. Just working out what sizes...

Sounds like you're a convert to the Peak4. I'll be getting one to complete my freeride foiling quiver but trying to decide between the 3m or 4m. I'm riding a surf wing (Slingshot Moses 633 copy) and have a Reo 6m and a 9m Hyperlink. I think I want the 4m but am worried that there may be too much overlap with my 6m. First world problems hey?

Had my 3m Peak4 out in a good nor-easter today and crashed the kite close to shore after breaching the foil on a wave. After checking I hadn't shot the foil through the lines, I noticed I still had line tension to the kite which was leading edge down in the water. I pulled the steering lines and reversed the kite off the water, let go one and the kite spun around, then let go the other line and had it back in the air. Carried on foiling
Although not technically water relaunchable, if you have some of the kite exposed to the wind, use your line control and you can often relaunch. But if you don't steer the kite into the water it generally won't fall there by itself.

BTW Luigikiter, if you think the 8m is fun then you'll love the smaller Peak4's. When you have enough wind the 3m Peak4 is outstanding. One hand control, just a twitch of the wrist and you can fly it all over the window quicker than any other kite I've flown. You do need to adjust your depower to make sure you don't backstall the kite, and then work it hard to get up on the foil. But getting used to the speed can take some adjustment

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DukeSilver said..

LuigiKiter said..
I did not want to believe all the hype for this kite but yesterday I got the 8m demo from Actionsports.. ohhh boy...

This thing is Magical, wind was about 10-12 knots in Pinaroo point, it was really hard at first trying to waterstart I was working out the timing and how to fly the kite better to get me out of the water.

yes it does flap a bit.... yes if you drop it chances are you are not going to relaunch again, but the feeling of going fully downwind and the kite just stays up in the air... wow...

Gybes were no issues as well... I would just carve downwind and because the kite stays there... no need to downloop or do sharp carves.. just enjoy.

I will be getting some peaks after this. Just working out what sizes...

Sounds like you're a convert to the Peak4. I'll be getting one to complete my freeride foiling quiver but trying to decide between the 3m or 4m. I'm riding a surf wing (Slingshot Moses 633 copy) and have a Reo 6m and a 9m Hyperlink. I think I want the 4m but am worried that there may be too much overlap with my 6m. First world problems hey?

When in doubt, best to get a 4 and 5m peak, together they cost about the same as a new pump-up-kite. 4 is perfect for normal strength seabreeze. 5 for sub 18 knots (lighter seabreeze days). The hyperlink might get a little dusty (since the 5m peak will likely replace a large chunk of the 9m range), the reo will probably get eaten by moths before being used again (well I know my drifters dont get any use anymore).

I probably use the 5m about 60% of the time and 4m 40%. The 5 is basically a one kite quiver. The 4 peak and 9m hyperlink would be a very versatile setup. 4, 5 peak and 9m hyperlink gives all the options. ...Should probably add a 3m sometime for very good wind foiling.

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PrfctChaos said..

DukeSilver said..

LuigiKiter said..
I did not want to believe all the hype for this kite but yesterday I got the 8m demo from Actionsports.. ohhh boy...

This thing is Magical, wind was about 10-12 knots in Pinaroo point, it was really hard at first trying to waterstart I was working out the timing and how to fly the kite better to get me out of the water.

yes it does flap a bit.... yes if you drop it chances are you are not going to relaunch again, but the feeling of going fully downwind and the kite just stays up in the air... wow...

Gybes were no issues as well... I would just carve downwind and because the kite stays there... no need to downloop or do sharp carves.. just enjoy.

I will be getting some peaks after this. Just working out what sizes...

Sounds like you're a convert to the Peak4. I'll be getting one to complete my freeride foiling quiver but trying to decide between the 3m or 4m. I'm riding a surf wing (Slingshot Moses 633 copy) and have a Reo 6m and a 9m Hyperlink. I think I want the 4m but am worried that there may be too much overlap with my 6m. First world problems hey?

When in doubt, best to get a 4 and 5m peak, together they cost about the same as a new pump-up-kite. 4 is perfect for normal strength seabreeze. 5 for sub 18 knots (lighter seabreeze days). The hyperlink might get a little dusty (since the 5m peak will likely replace a large chunk of the 9m range), the reo will probably get eaten by moths before being used again (well I know my drifters dont get any use anymore).

I probably use the 5m about 60% of the time and 4m 40%. The 5 is basically a one kite quiver. The 4 peak and 9m hyperlink would be a very versatile setup. 4, 5 peak and 9m hyperlink gives all the options. ...Should probably add a 3m sometime for very good wind foiling.

Thanks for the info. Just what I was after. I might see you down at Leighton this weekend.

So today I bought the 5m and was a bit hesitant to go to pinnaroo, but seabreeze reading for ocean reef was around 12 knots.. so I ended up going.

Over there I knew that the 5 would be too small but I still tried to go out I had to loop the **** out of it but I got going came back to the beach and I saw guy with one of those devices that measure wind speed, so I ask him about his readings and he told me 8 knots.

Fark..... so I said well lets go for another one this time I messed up the gybe and for the life of me I could not get going, so fark it I just body drag back to the beach.

I know this is not a light wind kite but it performed quite well...

Im really happy with my purchase.

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LuigiKiter said..
So today I bought the 5m and was a bit hesitant to go to pinnaroo, but seabreeze reading for ocean reef was around 12 knots.. so I ended up going.

Over there I knew that the 5 would be too small but I still tried to go out I had to loop the **** out of it but I got going came back to the beach and I saw guy with one of those devices that measure wind speed, so I ask him about his readings and he told me 8 knots.

Fark..... so I said well lets go for another one this time I messed up the gybe and for the life of me I could not get going, so fark it I just body drag back to the beach.

I know this is not a light wind kite but it performed quite well...

Im really happy with my purchase.

Brilliant. So once it hits a steady 10-12 you're golden.

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DukeSilver said..

LuigiKiter said..
So today I bought the 5m and was a bit hesitant to go to pinnaroo, but seabreeze reading for ocean reef was around 12 knots.. so I ended up going.

Over there I knew that the 5 would be too small but I still tried to go out I had to loop the **** out of it but I got going came back to the beach and I saw guy with one of those devices that measure wind speed, so I ask him about his readings and he told me 8 knots.

Fark..... so I said well lets go for another one this time I messed up the gybe and for the life of me I could not get going, so fark it I just body drag back to the beach.

I know this is not a light wind kite but it performed quite well...

Im really happy with my purchase.

Brilliant. So once it hits a steady 10-12 you're golden.

Yes and even though I could not get going the kite never dropped which made me feel safe... I know my ex-old 9m soul could have dropped on that kind of wind if I slack the lines a little bit.

30 minutes later the wind picked up maybe to 13-14 knots and yap, I was golden!! :D

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LuigiKiter said..
So today I bought the 5m and was a bit hesitant to go to pinnaroo, but seabreeze reading for ocean reef was around 12 knots.. so I ended up going.

Over there I knew that the 5 would be too small but I still tried to go out I had to loop the **** out of it but I got going came back to the beach and I saw guy with one of those devices that measure wind speed, so I ask him about his readings and he told me 8 knots.

Fark..... so I said well lets go for another one this time I messed up the gybe and for the life of me I could not get going, so fark it I just body drag back to the beach.

I know this is not a light wind kite but it performed quite well...

Im really happy with my purchase.

Not sure on your weight or what type of board and wing you are riding, but at 84 ks I got up easy and marched upwind on the 5 meter peak4 in 8 knots. I borrowed the kite from Dr. Surf, he was riding it, and weighs 10 kilos less than me. For what it's worth, I was on my Paipo board strapless with the Zeeko Spitfire xlw wings. This kite can deliver at those light winds. I ended up buying a 6 meter Ozone Explore as my super lightwind kite but I have not had any super light days to see how low I can get out in with this particular kite.

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dafish said..

LuigiKiter said..
So today I bought the 5m and was a bit hesitant to go to pinnaroo, but seabreeze reading for ocean reef was around 12 knots.. so I ended up going.

Over there I knew that the 5 would be too small but I still tried to go out I had to loop the **** out of it but I got going came back to the beach and I saw guy with one of those devices that measure wind speed, so I ask him about his readings and he told me 8 knots.

Fark..... so I said well lets go for another one this time I messed up the gybe and for the life of me I could not get going, so fark it I just body drag back to the beach.

I know this is not a light wind kite but it performed quite well...

Im really happy with my purchase.

Not sure on your weight or what type of board and wing you are riding, but at 84 ks I got up easy and marched upwind on the 5 meter peak4 in 8 knots. I borrowed the kite from Dr. Surf, he was riding it, and weighs 10 kilos less than me. For what it's worth, I was on my Paipo board strapless with the Zeeko Spitfire xlw wings. This kite can deliver at those light winds. I ended up buying a 6 meter Ozone Explore as my super lightwind kite but I have not had any super light days to see how low I can get out in with this particular kite.

Hey Dafish, Im 84 kgs too, but I foil with a twintip style board, the North Free Foil, so no volume... my wing its also not the biggest its a Duotone spirit carve 950.

If I had a bigger volume board and a bigger wing maybe that would be perfect.

I'm super happy with the Peak 4 amazing kite, looking at how the season has been in Perth so far ( Crappy ) I will be probably using my peak 4 a lot.

4 me peak4 8m is sub 10knts on foil. Its easy to pick up the speed to reach top end of wind range ... And at 75 pies on 1200mm board with infinity 76 foil a breeze to get going..
I spoilt myself on first board as even easier 2get going.. Sector 60
Seabreeze locally can easily pickup 4+ knots on light wind days ..
Have spent a number of sessions just testing how to relaunch as most times I am at site where have to drift launch.. Not ideal 4 single skin...but worth it once going..gust handling and tendency to not drift down to edge of Window G8 4 me..
Definitely take a string bag when you have to pack down on water..
Once 8m is wet sub 6knts is next to impossible to relaunch .. A lucky gust when in position..
A bit more wind much easier..
As my skill set improves.. I will get more use from this size...
If you anticipate going out in 12+ knots and up most times u want to use Peak4 stay 5m and under..
I anticipate getting 4-5m LEI.. for offshore till skills improve then likely get 4m Peak4
Cheers
AP

I'm ordering a peak 4 - 5m. This thread piqued my interest and I've demoed the 5m twice now. It's magical. Great bar feel. Nice turning speed and shuts off the power by sheeting out. Very similar feel to a lei IMO - heavier bar pressure, not like a Foil kite at all. Riding an Axis S Foil (680 wing) at 95 kegs. Today was a mix of yellow and green arrows and was totally powered upwind, getting respectable angles. Downwind, the kite just disappeared and I could ride wind swell whichever direction I wanted. I read somewhere that Flysurfer say single skin offers power around 1.6x it's size - so the 5 is like an 8 (that weighs 800 grams). That seems about right, so this should be a good summer kite in Perth. I reckon I'll want a 4 eventually too.

Another thumbs up for the Peak 4. Ordered a 4 mtr from BrisKites here in Brisbane, came in about a week. I'm 80 kg on a 1200 wing, had 3 sessions on it so far, and 2 swims. 44 cm bar on 17 mtr lines. Kite weight 540gms
Brilliant kite for drifting on wind swell, never have to worry about the kite dropping. 13-18 knots is what I have used it in. Turns super fast to the point it's spinning in front of you. Tubes are super easy, you just turn the power off and glide through the turn.
Not the kite you want to use if you travel far from shore, they are hard to crash but relaunch is problematic. Both my swims were the result of a failed roll tack, note to self, don't attempt tacks out the back.
Perfect for playing close to shore in the waves, reasonable upwind, similar to cloud.

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jamesperth said..
I'm ordering a peak 4 - 5m. This thread piqued my interest and I've demoed the 5m twice now. It's magical. Great bar feel. Nice turning speed and shuts off the power by sheeting out. Very similar feel to a lei IMO - heavier bar pressure, not like a Foil kite at all. Riding an Axis S Foil (680 wing) at 95 kegs. Today was a mix of yellow and green arrows and was totally powered upwind, getting respectable angles. Downwind, the kite just disappeared and I could ride wind swell whichever direction I wanted. I read somewhere that Flysurfer say single skin offers power around 1.6x it's size - so the 5 is like an 8 (that weighs 800 grams). That seems about right, so this should be a good summer kite in Perth. I reckon I'll want a 4 eventually too.

Not surprising. When people have demoed my Peak4 5m they have been impressed. One person bought a 5m Peak4 off me on the spot after seeing it on the water and then flying it himself.

There is a magical feel to the kites and once I have sold one Peak4 to a customer they often come back for another one... or two!
As jamesperth describes, they are very similar in feel to an lei kite, making them easy for the average kiter to get used to compared to a twin skin foil kite. Unlike an lei however, your kite won't fall from the sky when you foil down a wave at the kite or do some downwind wave foiling in light winds, it will just driiiffft.

I've also found that even at the bottom end of their wind range, a Peak4 on a hydrofoil will still go upwind at a really good angle with plenty of apparent wind. Only problem on a crowded venue, especially where the swell is good not far from shore, your angles downwind and upwind will be across all the TT crowd mowing the lawn. Have had my 3m Peak4 taken down by another kite in that scenario. He admitted fault and bought me a coffee so we're square.

Although you have to deliberately drive the kite into the water to get it wet, I have done this once when going from the 5m Peak4 to the 3m Peak4. Although the 5m kite has never been wet, going from it to the 3m needs some mental adjustment as the 3m is very fast in every direction and can catch you out when expecting the predictable, easy speed of the 5m.
On the plus side however I have had success at relaunching the Peak4 3m from the water after a crash. And when the wind is up the 3m is just a one arm operation kite with a twitch of the wrist to fly it anywhere in the wind window. It just disappears when you catch a wave, even a small wind swell, on a surf foil.

If you're ever travelling south of Sydney feel free to contact me for a demo on 0411 572 725. Only need 3 knots to put a Peak4 in the air
Also on a light wind note, Flysurfer have released a new 13m Peak4 which should get one up on a surf foil in 5 knots!
See Armin from Flysurfer foiling on 13m Peak4 below in bugger all wind

A quick note for anybody looking at a bar for a Peak. The Connect control bar now comes complete with bar floats for water use-

I can testify that the Peak 4 works well on a surfboard for a downwinder. I rode my 5m today for its maiden flight. At 95 kg and just going green arrows I was a bit worried initially, but nope. It had heaps of power for water starts and the instant off depower was great on a wave. I could easily hold ground but noticed it was very difficult to gain ground upwind against the swell direction and current which were aligned with the wind direction.
anyway, am pretty stoked that this latest purchase is more versatile than I expected.

I find the upwind is not too bad at all on the peaks. Have used mine a few times at single spot instead of downwinders or foiling.

Even only moderately powered, for example taking the 5m out when most are on 7m or 9m's, still works out fine for upwindability. (Note: usually on a skimboard instead of surfboard in these situations, so less draggy/powerhungry than a sb. Have only taken them out WELL powered at single spots using the sb specifically).

In general I would not say upwind is a issue. Same same as a wave LEI kite really. If upwind is a priority get a closed cell foil kite.