airsail said..
Yep, I'm lazy but it works. Just have to remember not to drive into the garage. Rigid carbon foils.

'Rigid' is one word to describe them :)

They look like they belong on a game of thrones set, Carbon Battering Ram

It's a bit disappointing that manufacturers are pursuing aluminium instead of carbon. All the best gear currently available is carbon and all the premium products are using variations on tuttle boxes and one piece wings and fuselage.

The only reason seems to be a modest price benefit to the customer, and I have to assume a significant profit benefit to the sellers.

Aluminium is always going to be heavier, be harder to repair, and require all sorts of measures to resist corrosion. I am guessing we're also going to be stuck with about a dozen bolts to screw it all together. Plate mounts are bulky and a pain to fit.

Carbon just works. A tuttle mount is inherently strong and only requires a couple of retaining screws to lock it together. The screws aren't even load bearing. It takes only a few minutes to do a full pack down and it all fits in the back of my car. I do this every session. It is so much easier and more convenient than lugging around a fully assembled kit and driving a van to hold it all.

At the high end carbon kit is more expensive, but at the freeride end there is only a few hundred dollars difference in price. I would have thought mass production would reduce the price difference even further.

I think the price sensitivity for foiling is because it is still relatively new and people don't want to spend money on something they might not like. It makes more sense to by used gear if that is your priority. Once you get competent at foiling and understand how versatile it is then it is well worth paying a little extra for gear that simply works better.

It's even more absurd when you see buying foil kites that cost more than a full carbon foil and board.

Gorgo said..
It's a bit disappointing that manufacturers are pursuing aluminium instead of carbon. All the best gear currently available is carbon and all the premium products are using variations on tuttle boxes and one piece wings and fuselage.

The only reason seems to be a modest price benefit to the customer, and I have to assume a significant profit benefit to the sellers.

Aluminium is always going to be heavier, be harder to repair, and require all sorts of measures to resist corrosion. I am guessing we're also going to be stuck with about a dozen bolts to screw it all together. Plate mounts are bulky and a pain to fit.

Carbon just works. A tuttle mount is inherently strong and only requires a couple of retaining screws to lock it together. The screws aren't even load bearing. It takes only a few minutes to do a full pack down and it all fits in the back of my car. I do this every session. It is so much easier and more convenient than lugging around a fully assembled kit and driving a van to hold it all.

At the high end carbon kit is more expensive, but at the freeride end there is only a few hundred dollars difference in price. I would have thought mass production would reduce the price difference even further.

I think the price sensitivity for foiling is because it is still relatively new and people don't want to spend money on something they might not like. It makes more sense to by used gear if that is your priority. Once you get competent at foiling and understand how versatile it is then it is well worth paying a little extra for gear that simply works better.

It's even more absurd when you see buying foil kites that cost more than a full carbon foil and board.

What is the biggest carbon fibre freeride wing?

RAL INN said..
You sound stressed Gorgo
....

Not stressed at all. I just came in from a 2 hour session cruising around on my foil and 5m kite. It's especially fun to hook into a few wave, then go straight back to the peak for another, and all the windsurfers are stuck on the beach.

I am more perplexed, and a little worried, that the foil market might go down the "VHS" path, when we've already got the "USB stick" with carbon products. It truly is just plug and play.

bigtone667 said..

....

What is the biggest carbon fibre freeride wing?

J Shapes have the Freeride, the Cruzer, and the C Wave. in order of size from small to large. I have the Freeride and the Cruzer, I have not seen the C Wave.

I use the Cruzer in almost all conditions. It's only a couple of knots slower at the top end, but can go heaps slower at the bottom end.

www.jshapes.com/collections/foils

Can't contribute any knowledge here, but have a question. Just got myself a Moses surf foil (633 wing with 91 cm mast). Still not able to foil, so can't tell you anything about it other then it is supposed to be great for foiling and it was expensive :-)

I prefer to use stuff rather than maintain it. Would prefer carbon fuselage but ended up buying Moses based on reviews and reputation.

Moses owners, what would you consider the minimum maintenance to keep this gear in good shape? Tefgel and pull apart once a week? Once a month? Seems a burden to pull apart and flush after every session as Moses recommends.

By the way, I went in their Facebook page and kept asking why not carbon and when are we going to see carbon. The answer went on in circles saying that 'carbn does not have the right properties'.

Looking forward to knowing and feeling that i have a great foil :-)

bigtone667 said..

airsail said..
Levitaz do a 989 sqcm wing they call a cruiser, 632 cm wingspan. That's quite a big wing and the foil can be fully disassembled.

That is a decent size but still to small for me.

My experience in waves is the bigger/fatter the wing the better. Once they are heading towards the 1200/1300cm2 size they work well for me.

Ditto :D I've got a 1440cm2 wing on the way...820mm wide.

BTW a 632cm wide wing is ****ing massive :D

From my experience the fuselage is the highest stressed part of the foil. And that stress is concentrated to the area between the front of the mast and rear of the front wing. Jumping puts a huge load on that area if landing flat as does hitting things. Moses sticking to alloy and Levitaz with stainless allows for a strong low profile fuselage that can be fully disassembled with little chance of breaking.

I'm using the Naish medium surf for the slow stuff and a Levitaz Bionic to scare the **** out of myself. Naish make a nice alloy foil, and now allow you to build your own, unlike last year when you had to buy the Kite foil, then spend more on a surf wing for the slow stuff. No maintenance on the Levitaz and this years shorter fuselage has dropped the weight to just over 800gms compared to last years 1200gm fuselage.

1440 wing, 820 wide, that's huge! Can't imagine trying to get going on something that big, the medium surf at 1032 rockets out of the water if you don't have your weight way forward

Swavek said..
Can't contribute any knowledge here, but have a question. Just got myself a Moses surf foil (633 wing with 91 cm mast). Still not able to foil, so can't tell you anything about it other then it is supposed to be great for foiling and it was expensive :-)

I prefer to use stuff rather than maintain it. Would prefer carbon fuselage but ended up buying Moses based on reviews and reputation.

Moses owners, what would you consider the minimum maintenance to keep this gear in good shape? Tefgel and pull apart once a week? Once a month? Seems a burden to pull apart and flush after every session as Moses recommends.

By the way, I went in their Facebook page and kept asking why not carbon and when are we going to see carbon. The answer went on in circles saying that 'carbn does not have the right properties'.

Looking forward to knowing and feeling that i have a great foil :-)

Great choice of foil Swavek. These are the hottest foil around at the moment and there is a mountain of quality foilers frothing about the Moses Onda 633 on Kiteforum. A Moses will be my next foil for sure. Lots of wing and stabiliser options along with plate mount so you can have adjustment and a big choice of boards to use. And they just look sexy.

bigtone667 said..

RAL INN said..
The XXLW Spitfire wings at 1300cm2 still Trump the conventional foil with 1500cm2

What's the white wing?

Proto

DukeSilver said..

Swavek said..
Can't contribute any knowledge here, but have a question. Just got myself a Moses surf foil (633 wing with 91 cm mast). Still not able to foil, so can't tell you anything about it other then it is supposed to be great for foiling and it was expensive :-)

I prefer to use stuff rather than maintain it. Would prefer carbon fuselage but ended up buying Moses based on reviews and reputation.

Moses owners, what would you consider the minimum maintenance to keep this gear in good shape? Tefgel and pull apart once a week? Once a month? Seems a burden to pull apart and flush after every session as Moses recommends.

By the way, I went in their Facebook page and kept asking why not carbon and when are we going to see carbon. The answer went on in circles saying that 'carbn does not have the right properties'.

Looking forward to knowing and feeling that i have a great foil :-)

Great choice of foil Swavek. These are the hottest foil around at the moment and there is a mountain of quality foilers frothing about the Moses Onda 633 on Kiteforum. A Moses will be my next foil for sure. Lots of wing and stabiliser options along with plate mount so you can have adjustment and a big choice of boards to use. And they just look sexy.

Yes, meant to be great - if I could only ride it
Beware that you need a different fuselage to use the kitesurfing wings. Only the mast is common part.

Hi loving the new big Italian (moses 633) For kitefoiling .. Alloy fuse carbon wings ....Slightly modified to fit a 610mm slingshot mast. For shallow water.Great setup This beast excells in transitions, and toesde tracking..

Crikey .... just read this thread

All this discussion about areas of wings , front and rear sizes , shimming and making adjustments to setup to do one thing or another , adjusting mast placement...... and aluminium vs carbon etc.

Feeling a bit perplexed as I've obviously missed out on so much detailed tuning.

With my Jshapes I just decide whether I want to ride the freestyle ( quicker , more locked in )or the cruzer foil (wavey , slower and looser ) .... then 4 bolts and off I go.
They both work beautifully and are not compromised by the complex mixture of choice which comes with interchangeable bits.
I honestly cannot fault either foil or the way that Jshapes have designed the complete package and have never had to consider if I changed something it might be better.
Except now waiting on a new 120 board
There is a bit to be said for simplicity and good design , plug in a go ....

Have ridden 4 other major brands and still can't wait to get back to my Jshapes .
Good value for carbon gear and it just simply works .

Trying not to pimp Jshapes , but I am loving it ... obviously
I have learnt on it and have not stopped developing my skills on it ... can't see the point in changing a thing.

Gorgo said..
^^^^^ what he said.

If if you want to change settings then good luck to you.

If you have to change settings then know that there are well designed foils that work perfectly out of the box.

Wow - so no future development or refinement required.
- I want one of the one size fits all people and conditions for now and the future.
No user input required for improvement - are you kidding the world would end.