i got a nikkon p600 its been a really good intro camera. Ive got the bug now and im thinking about getting a telephoto lens and new dslr camera.
this leads me to a few serious questions.
how much i need to spend to get a decent set up?
brand?
online?
recommendations? would you get away with 2, 3 grand or am i being delusional?
cheers for any info or recommendations,

What are you shooting? how far away and in what conditions?
It really is a massive can of worms. I'd first recommend narrowing down the brand. Ask you family and mates what they use. Always handy to pick the same brand as you can borrow lenses etc.

Razz it is a very very costly slope to follow my friend. I'll give you my thoughts on this stuff...

If you're talking about a telephoto lense in general you can get things reasonably priced. Obviously if funds were infinite, you'd pick up an $8000 600mm zoom lense (what professionals use) but you can get away with cheaper. I have a 70-300mm Sigma lense which does the job for my photography for now and it costed $150 and I know they are coming up with a 150-600mm for around the 2000 ish mark. Mark up in Aust but I'm sure cheaper elsewhere globally. You can still get your average zoom lenses for much less depending on what you are after. I've even seen some serious second hand telephoto lense for under 1000 if you look hard.

Nikon vs. Canon? It's similiar to your preference of Nike or Adidas (although Nikon lately have overtaken Canon in regards to sensor technology I believe). I shoot with Nikon more so because I got my gear on sale.

For your money you can buy a decent pro-sumer model camera for around a grand. Something like the Nikon D7100 or the Canon 70D would do what you need and more. Avoid entry level cameras as they're very basic and you will soon want to upgrade. Don't get me started on upgrading to full frame dslrs.

I've read around and talked to a few people and grey import sites like Kogan aren't too bad for online purchasing. Problem is, warranty then is not covered with the brand but rather the import site. Gumtree and the likes have people selling decent gear regularly as long as you know how to pick it. Regarding stores, I avoid many in Perth because of how pricey they are. There are a few though I sometimes drop by in Perth who have good staff and you can justify the extra price for the knowledge they teach you.

Here are a few just to have a squizz. Hope you find your gear you are after!

www.sigmaphoto.com/150-600mm-f5-63-dg-os-hsm-s
www.canon.com.au/en-AU/Personal/Products/Cameras-and-Accessories/EOS-Digital-SLR-Cameras/EOS-70D
www.nikon.com.au/en_AU/product/digital-slr-cameras/d7100

Cheers glassy, epic info thanks for the full answer its a big decision appreciate the answers.
And dawn patrol I will be shooting mainly surfing but want to do some shooting from the boat where you can't park close to the wave.

I use Canon gear. Wish I had gone down the Nikon route though for the reason that my two good mates have Nikon gear and we could have swapped / traded stuff. I do love the Cannon though. You can pick up really good stuff second hand. No real need to spend a fortune on getting new lenses - just be very selective with what you are buying. Loads of stuff everywhere. Saves you a bundle. I have brought all my lenses second hand - and they go great. Make sure you test them thoroughly before handing over any cashola and check for any wear / not looked after signs. You can get some amazing second hand lenses for $500- $1000 like the Sigma 150-600mm. High quality. I picked up an L-series 200m F4 for $600 - incredible shots.

Everyone always says to spend more on yr lenses than yr body - heed this advice. Just make sure though that you decide if you are going to go down the APC or Full frame mode before you start buying your high quality lenses as swapping along the way can get very expensive and is not recommended

No worries Razz.If you're based in WA, I wouldn't suggest camera stores as I find them overpriced and unless you know what you're talking about, they like to push things onto you you don't need. Camera House Leediville I find you're paying the extra price for the customer service they provide which is good. Gerry Gibbs down in Cannington are good if you know what you're talking about. They ran out of a certain lense filter and sold me the top of the range ones cheaper all because I sounded like I had 'photography smarts'... Lets be honest I did not know what I was BS'ing really.+1 to Ted!Also invest in a good tripod/ monopod. If you decide to buy cheap, you'll end up running through the equivalent cost of buying a decent tripod before you even purchase one. This I too learnt the hard way!

As Glassssy said, the D7100 is a decent bit of kit. If you wait until the end of this week, Nikon are likely to release the upgraded version the D7200 (or whatever they name it). Could mean well priced D7100's would become available.

To start with I would lean towards an APS-C sensor. There are many pros and cons between crop and full frame. There are many comparisons on google. The reason I'd lean towards crop are they are cheaper, lighter and you get an added crop factor (200 mm lens is effectively 300 mm, 300 mm is effectively 450 mm - I don't think it is that simple, but it's an easy way to write it).

If you ever plan to upgrade to FX format, consider buying lenses that will work on that sensor (not all crop sensor lenses will work properly on full frame). The catch is they are more expensive, but usually better quality/performance.

Considering you plan on shooting surfers you will need at a minimum a 200 mm lens. From a moving boat adds a few more factors. You will need a faster shutter speed to counteract the movement of the boat (= faster lens!). I'd also say a weather proofed lens (more expensive) due to being exposed to the elements more. Nikon and Canon make great 70-200 mm lens, but they are pricey. And 200 mm is probably on the lower end of what you'd be after in terms of range. However with an APS-C sensor you'd be getting approx 300 mm out of the lens.

For your money (3k) you could get a D7100, a 70-200 f2.8 lens 2nd hand, and probably the Nikon 35 mm prime (for APS-C, its close to what the human eye sees in terms of 'zoom'). Or whatever the Canon equivalent is.

The difference between full frame and crop is closing in. The low light performance used to be the kicker, but that gap is closing. that guy explains it well...

And as Ted the Kiwi said, check what your mates have. Very handy to borrow/try/swap gear.

ahhh man you guys have blown my mind thanks heaps.i now realise how little i thought i knew. im going to narrow it down to a couple options and get back to youse. i nearly went out blind and bought stuff but now im going to do some more research. so it really aint point and shoot

Hey razz, also checkout
Www.digitalrev.com
I found that site very competitive on price and some of my friends bought from here and I ended up buying my canon 7D from there. All brand new and was a good experience in general. Checkout some of their you tube videos also. Search digi rev photography.
Good luck, you'll find the photography bug will bite once u get started.

I don't know if the following is the case for the above website, but it should be considered.

Many online shops sell grey import gear. The equipment is exactly the same. Prices are cheaper. The only downside is the factory warranty will not be valid. Some people don't mind, some do. Just worth thinking about. (Again that site above might not be grey import kit).

I've read somewhere (could not be true at all) that the manufactures allow the grey import gear as it removes any warranty commitments they may have had otherwise.

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Dawn Patrol said..
Many online shops sell grey import gear. The equipment is exactly the same. Prices are cheaper. The only downside is the factory warranty will not be valid. Some people don't mind, some do. Just worth thinking about. (Again that site above might not be grey import kit).

Having gone through no less then 3 Canon 5d Mark ii's before I got one that worked I wouldn't bother with saving a few hundred dollars.

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Razzonater said..
recommendations? would you get away with 2, 3 grand or am i being delusional?
cheers for any info or recommendations,

$3,000 is a good start. First up let me say I have only Canon gear have been shooting with it professionally for over 10 years. There where times when I envied the Nikon brigade for their superior Flash system. That said Canon has fixed a lot of the issues they have had with their latest speed lights. In the end what won me over to Canon are three reasons:

1) Canon cameras have better ergonomics then other cameras... end of story. Many pros agree with this statement.

2) Canon has top notch service in Australia... especially for professional photographers.

3) Canon has a better lens line up then other manufacturers. Yes there is always the third party lenses from companies such as Sigma but having put lenses through the ringer in a professional environment and then having to get them serviced I can tell you those third part lenses don't come close to Canon.

Someone recommended a 70D. I have that camera as my "throw away". It's good at a lot of things but it does have it's short comings compared to other slightly more expensive cameras.

What's great:
- swivel screen is simply awesome
- it's light and cheap
- it has continuos autofocus when you shooting video

What's not so great:
- The continues auto focus doesn't seem to work well subjects close to infinity. EG using a 70-200 is 2.8 works well to a certain distance then seems to loose focus rapidly. The effect is even worse when you use an extender.
- Sensor noise: I would consider photos shot at higher than ISO 1600 as almost unusable. You need to apply a lot of noise reduction in post to fix things.

The next step up is a 7D Mark II. In my opinion this is a much better camera. You don't have a swivel screen but it has all the other great features the 70D has plus the sensor handles noise a lot better. I have seen it in Australia for as little as $2100 inc tax.

No for lenses... as your first lens you should buy a Canon 50mm 1.8. I have bought these for as little as $125 in Australia. While it's cheap it outperforms many much more expensive lenses from third party manufacturers at a much higher price.

If you want a zoom lens straight up you could consider a Sigma 50-500 or 150-600. They are not great but will be a good start. I had a 50-500 but eventually sold it because I wasn't too happy with the image quality.

The next step up would be a Canon 70-200 2.8 non IS. A lens I consider as good as a zoom lens gets. Or go with a 70-200 F4

Or alternatively a Canon 100-400 MKII . Canon recently updated this lens and for what it costs you get a lot of lens. I personally haven't tested it yet but I have heard a lot positive stuff from people that have.

Whatever you do consider a lens that has a decent resale value because at some point you will probably want to get something a little bit better (read more expensive) and the more you can get for your old lens the better. For example I bought the Sigma 50-500 for $850 new and sold it 2 years later used but in as new condition with box for $550.

^^^ yep go the 7dii and 100-400ii.
done deal.

Wow, awesome info guys, Ive been trying to work out how to choose a DSLR and am finding this very interesting.

Photography teacher. Buy 5-10 cameras a year, mainly Canons. Get almost all of them online from America. Australia is way overpriced. And Tamron do really nice quality lenses at an amazing price.

I've started to narrow it down, my question however ridiculous is, if I get a 500mm lens versus a 150mm lens am I better off spending the difference on the camera or the lens? I suppose am I better off buying a fully sick a grade lens now and a average camera (to upgrade later) or other way round?
Your right too I've compared online to shop price and they are a world apart, reckon there's 30 per cent in it for lenses. At this stage I'm leaning towards canon but is think you get more bang for your buck with nikkon????? The guys I've spoke too who do it seriously swear by cannon, but they are dropping 6,8grand on their set ups.
Cheers for all the advice to be honest every time I look at something I keep upgrading in my mind I need to determine a serious maximum price.....2,3 grand Can escalate quickly

My view Razz, quality lenses then camera body. This year's camera body is next year's old stock. Lens with good glass can last you years and years and still hold resale value when you decide to offload. starting out I'd even consider your typical pro-sumer body as you've got enough controls to keep you happy while learning what shutter speed, aperture or iso to use while still leaving room to leave it on different beginner set ups if you're lazy one day and keen to just point and shoot. Sorry for the Nikon reference (as that's what I use) I've seen great shots taken from camera such as a mid level D7100 that would rival pro cameras. Likewise I now have a d300 that was considered a top mid level camera but images it produces are quite similiar to the entry level D3300 now out. I have not even mentioned what you can do to images on photoshop!

At the end of the day as much as temptation may be, get the gear that will get you out there shooting cos it's the dude behind the camera that takes the pic and not the camera. If I was in your shoes, I'd take like advice above, get the telephoto lens Of best quality you can afford, a workhorse lenses for your avaerage day if you ever need to use the camera elsewhere and then pick as good a camera body as possible closer to the higher end bracket.

Quality lens. Decent body. $700 Canon body with good lens will blow your socks off and take pics good enough to win comps. I speak from lots of experience. Of my students. Not mine. Lol.

Yes what you can do in Photoshop is amazing, but photoshop can't make a rubbishy composed, out of focus piece of mud into gold. It is all about a quality image to begin with. And a quality lens grind is the most important. Then sensor size. The iPhone has the best camera because of lens quality and sensor size. Everything else is window dressing. Don't get analysis paralysis.

Personally, having used both, either is good. I prefer canon because I like the menus, but I would never bag out Nikon.

Alright, to answer your original questions. If I was you, keep the body you have and start buying lenses if you are serious. A quality body down the track is comparatively cheap. A better lens now will make a bigger difference to your pics than trying to do both lens and body.
And then you need a good wide angle...and then a macro...and then....

Thanks heaps crew
1 best lens I can get me mitts on
2 reasonable camera
3 (I really like this one) don't get analysis paralysis ( I think I may already have it)
Will update with final decisions

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thedrip said..
The iPhone has the best camera because of lens quality and sensor size. Everything else is window dressing. Don't get analysis paralysis.

Speaking of Iphones, you can even get surf housings for Iphones nowadays with fish eye lenses etc and if you look up guys like Zac Noyle (Hawaiian) you can see the wonders he can do. Makes you realise yep, it's being able to take a good shot! If only I could for out the few hundred dollars for one, I'd love to give it a shot!

Razz, your P600 doesn't let you swap lenses does it? If you're still unsure about things, jump onto Whirlpool, they've got a forum dedicated to photography and I'm sure there you'll find more information about what you're after!

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surfingboye said..
^^^ yep go the 7dii and 100-400ii.
done deal.

or 7d1 or 70d or 60d and the new 100-400...
this is what you want.

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thedrip said..
The iPhone has the best camera because of lens quality and sensor size. Everything else is window dressing.

Really. Given you say that you are a teacher I can only assume you are saying this with level irony. Saying the iPhone lens is better then say a 85mm Canon l Lense or anything Leica or Zeiss make is the most uninformed statement I have ever heard.

Yes the iPhone as far back as the iPhone 5 take incredible photos under the right circumstances (outdoors, day light, wide angle etc) but to suggest it's the lens quality you an get is just silly.

If you want to nail it down to a single lens get the 100-400 MK II by Canon and buy a 70D. The lens will lose very little value as long as you look after it.

RE 500 mm you will either have to pay more money or sacrifice image quality. 150 mm is a bit on the short side if your planning on shooting from the beach.

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thedrip said..
Photography teacher. Buy 5-10 cameras a year, mainly Canons. Get almost all of them online from America. Australia is way overpriced.

Overpriced? Really? I think you are buying from the wrong shops. I find once you take shipping, GST and the lack of local warranty into account Australian prices are often on par or in some cases lower. There are plenty of shops like DigitDirect.com.au that are realistic and will price match or at least get you close.

Personally I have given up on buying cameras overseas based on the number of cameras I have bought that had problems and either needed a repair within 6 months or a complete replacement because they were DOA.

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And Tamron do really nice quality lenses at an amazing price.

Just don't expect an amazing price when you sell it or have to get it repaired.

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stehsegler said...

thedrip said..
The iPhone has the best camera because of lens quality and sensor size. Everything else is window dressing.

Really. Given you say that you are a teacher I can only assume you are saying this with level irony. Saying the iPhone lens is better then say a 85mm Canon l Lense or anything Leica or Zeiss make is the most uninformed statement I have ever heard.

Yes the iPhone as far back as the iPhone 5 take incredible photos under the right circumstances (outdoors, day light, wide angle etc) but to suggest it's the lens quality you an get is just silly.

I was talking about phone cameras. Strikes me as funny your comprehension skills. Strikes me as simply silly to think anyone could compare an SLR to a phone camera for image quality. My point was it is the best phone camera because of lens quality and sensor size. I can't explain it in any smaller words I am afraid. It may have been rhetorically a little complex. My apologies.

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stehsegler said...

thedrip said..
Photography teacher. Buy 5-10 cameras a year, mainly Canons. Get almost all of them online from America. Australia is way overpriced.

Overpriced? Really? I think you are buying from the wrong shops. I find once you take shipping, GST and the lack of local warranty into account Australian prices are often on par or in some cases lower. There are plenty of shops like DigitDirect.com.au that are realistic and will price match or at least get you close.

Personally I have given up on buying cameras overseas based on the number of cameras I have bought that had problems and either needed a repair within 6 months or a complete replacement because they were DOA.

And Tamron do really nice quality lenses at an amazing price.

Just don't expect an amazing price when you sell it or have to get it repaired.

Like I said, I buy a bunch of cameras every year. Online from America has been far cheaper. And I haven't had any of the Tamron lens need repairs. Tamron do do very high quality lenses. They are at a very very good price. And if they can withstand the punishment of school use, then their reliability is unquestionable. We put more pressure on our equipment than pretty much any other users.

Perhaps you are buying from the wrong shops overseas? Just saying.....

Btw, I spend about $16000 a year on photography gear. Mainly cameras and lenses. Been doing it for 18 years. You do the maths. You never know, I might actually have an idea....lol

Oh and warranty? If it's damaged in transit they replace it. I have had that happen unfortunately. And the cameras' is still valid in Australia. Which I have had to use on occasion. With 15+ cameras going at anyone time, there is the odd hiccup. Never had a problem with warranties. Fancy hey?

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thedrip said..
I was talking about phone cameras. Strikes me as funny your comprehension skills. Strikes me as simply silly to think anyone could compare an SLR to a phone camera for image quality. My point was it is the best phone camera because of lens quality and sensor size. I can't explain it in any smaller words I am afraid. It may have been rhetorically a little complex. My apologies.

This is what you wrote:

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thedrip said..
Yes what you can do in Photoshop is amazing, but photoshop can't make a rubbishy composed, out of focus piece of mud into gold. It is all about a quality image to begin with. And a quality lens grind is the most important. Then sensor size. The iPhone has the best camera because of lens quality and sensor size. Everything else is window dressing. Don't get analysis paralysis.

Now tell me how anyone would interpret this as "you are only talking about phone cameras". It's a clear statement "the iPhone has the best camera because of lens quality and sensor size"

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thedrip said..
Oh and warranty? If it's damaged in transit they replace it. I have had that happen unfortunately. And the cameras' is still valid in Australia. Which I have had to use on occasion. With 15+ cameras going at anyone time, there is the odd hiccup. Never had a problem with warranties. Fancy hey?

Canon? Warranting overseas purchased DSLRs in Australia? I highly doubt it given the number professionals that I know that have had problems with exactly this. Maybe it's different in WA.

You can in some cases use Canon Professional Services while working overseas (including discounted repairs and loaner gear while they repair) but that's about as far as their generosity goes.

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thedrip said..
Perhaps you are buying from the wrong shops overseas? Just saying.....

Canon 7d Mk II with US Warranty at adorama.com shipped to Australia: US$1927.20
At todays exchange rate: US$1,925.20 = AUD2,478.78

Add to that 10% GST = $2,726.57 (plus on occasion UPS seems to charge $50 to collect the GST but I'll leave that out)

Today's price for a 7D Mark II inc 18-135 STM lens at digidirect.com.au : $2,428.00 inc GST, Australian warranty.
In the past I have asked to price match US bought lenses and they matched the price everytime.

Digital Camera Warehouse does the 7D Mark II body only for $2291 inc GST and Australian warranty.

Today's price for the camera body only from eGlobal shipped out of Hong Kong: $1,918 inc eGlobal warranty... read you have to ship the camera back to them for repairs.

So you would save about $375 for giving up the Australian warranty. Good luck dealing with a company that sits in the US or Hong Kong in regards to warranty claims. Of course you can always pay Canon to repair the camera in Australia. Replacing the main PCB on a Canon 5D MK III costs roughly $500, a shutter about $800. Doesn't seem worth it too me. Maybe if you buy 10 or 15 cameras per year but not if you buy a single camera.