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eppo said..
so Harrow I'm sure your own parents are/were wonderful People as are mine. But this thesis is
not a personal one.

Thinking a long way forward, the only way to really survive forever is to have a society that is 100% totally sustainable. That means no longer using any finite resources. Not using anything that you need to dig up or that you can't grow as fast as you can use it or obtain entirely from recycling. What would that look like? Is our society as a whole capable of making that change? I don't think enough people would be willing to accept what it would mean and I don't think there are any politicians willing to make the call on their watch.

The government policy of ever increasing GDP is non-sustainable insanity.

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eppo said..
...
But the last 100 years or so to cover us, our parents and theirs have not been a particularly great chapter in human cohesiveness nor planetary care. The need for unbridled capture of resources, amplified through technological evolution outstripping our own has had its obvious affects. God like technology coupled with a primitive primordial reptilian brain stem is not a great combination for our survival. It could be the only way to continue as a species is to merge directly with these AI machines and with complete connection with it and all fellow human beings on the planet. Maybe ? And the meta verse is one more step in that direction. Crikey we are already just about plugged into the matrix with our phones - this extremely evident with the generations after us

All I know is if we take the mentality of the past generations and extrapolate forward the picture is Not a good one.

Its hard to say the people before us did a bad job when you consider they are effectively bootstrapping society. Whenever you look at human history, you are at a stage that had to happen.

Oil. It's finite. It releases a lot of carbon dioxide. Without it we would not have progressed anywhere near as fast as we have. Without it we wouldn't have progressed to a point where we can have cheap solar cells, and efficient cars, and all the other things that make a more sustainable future possible.

So, can you turn around and say it was a bad thing to use oil? Of course not. Well, you could, but you wouldn't be reading this on a computer if you went that way.

I think some people find it easy to blame the generation before them instead of getting on with the job and doing their thing for society and the future. Its easy to blame someone. Much harder to do anything active to change things.

Yep reasonable points. Lets Not get into fractional reserve lending that powered the last 50 years of debauched growth while we are at it. Not sure even sustainable practises would do a great deal to undermine the humans innate need to want more. And more than the next guy to if possible.

there has to be a fundamental shift in basic human nature / an evolution of consciousness if you like. Maybe the AI machine with no biological wants or needs might do it. We just all plug into a collective conscious. Maybe the meta verse is another step in that direction.

Eppo, I think you're saying we evolved to self destruct, does seem that way?

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Rails said..

eppo said..

it's happening alright.

How do you go to the toilet?

That is an excellent question.
And, I hope everyone likes white bread, cos that's all that comes out of the metaverse toaster.

There is interesting experiment ;
machine that substitute human in conversation.
At some stage we are no longer able to spot the difference: if you exchange messages with boot or human.

Metaverse could and possibly goes in this direction, where people will interact with computer generated intelligence, not another human being.
To be fair ,exchange with any other human being could be very annoying, as SB demonstrate.
Properly tuned AI will be possibly much better partner to exchange your thought, talk to ,ask for news and deliver knowledge. As SB and FB demonstrate humans usually are set to confront each other , fight and exploit if possible.
There is not much sense for AI to exploit or humiliate a person. (as a prove of concept I could already expect usual's to pop up with attack and abuse, that bring them not benefit at all beside tempering their own frustrations and deficiencies)

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turing_test



physicsworld.com/a/the-turing-test-2-0/

The process of replacing humans to interact started already. Banking and other telephone help services relay already on computer algorithms. Out car navigation system is more accurate and patience then your wife handling maps upside down and shouting to slow down.

Metaverse will definitely oscillate into commerce, providing you virtual tours trough shopping malls with convincing salesman avatar.

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decrepit said..
Eppo, I think you're saying we evolved to self destruct, does seem that way?

That's an interesting point to consider. I guess that in the past, people who were curious and inventive and wanted 'stuff' enough to go about working out how to make and produce it survived, while that those that didn't have the propensity to produce and stockpile for lean times didn't. If it's that ingrained into us as a species, does that mean we're kind of screwed?

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Harrow said..

decrepit said..
Eppo, I think you're saying we evolved to self destruct, does seem that way?

That's an interesting point to consider. I guess that in the past, people who were curious and inventive and wanted 'stuff' enough to go about working out how to make and produce it survived, while that those that didn't have the propensity to produce and stockpile for lean times didn't. If it's that ingrained into us as a race, does that mean we're kind of screwed?

I would rather correct decrepit statement that we as humans programmed to destruct each other.

Which generally leads to the same end effect.

Typical goal is not the have a nice, comfortable car or home,
but have better then anybody else you know.

If you can not afford or able to get it ,
there is another way :
to damage or destroy what your neighbor have or aspire to (apply to whole countries too)

Humans didn't go to the Moon to see what is there or learn about,
but to be first , before any competition could plant a flag and claim.Now 50 years later we are in the race to the Moon again
only because China want to be there too.

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myscreenname said..

FormulaNova said..

myscreenname said..

FormulaNova said..

Carantoc said..
How is anyone going to be able to tell the difference between a real cartoon Homer Simpson and a cartoon metaverse avatar Carantoc ?
Hell, even in real life it is hard to tell the difference sometimes.

Up until now I sort of thought you were an A(a)I bot anyway?

Old clints will never understand the metaverse.

Ahh I wouldn't worry about those folks. They are too busy riding around in their flying cars and living it up on vacations on Mars. All those things that people said would never come true.

Some of those clints even think that Bitcoin is not a real currency and just based on speculation. What would they know! The guy down the road told me I would be crazy to not invest in botcoin, so it shows how wrong they got it.

Old clints are way more interested in the next season of the walking dead, thickend yoghurt, useless farming inventions, and Nicholas Cages best movie.

Hahaha!

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Macroscien said..
I would rather correct decrepit statement that we as humans programmed to destruct each other.

This is certainly true macro, but doesn't necessarily end everything, just puts the meanest and toughest on top.

It's our incessant desire for growth and expansion that's unsustainable. It's built into all our systems.
"Go forth and multiply" was great in the days of small tribes, wandering a huge expanse of land. But makes no sense now at all. China tried to stop it, with the one child policy, and failed. Pollys are still saying we need more population to improve the economy.

The only way we can keep expanding, is to create a Dyson sphere, that could keep us going for a few millennia. But I doubt we'll have the capability to do so until it's too late. Certainly not if we're all stuck in the metaverse.

Unless of course we all live in the metaverse, and robots keep the physical system running.

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decrepit said..

Macroscien said..
I would rather correct decrepit statement that we as humans programmed to destruct each other.

This is certainly true macro, but doesn't necessarily end everything, just puts the meanest and toughest on top.

It's our incessant desire for growth and expansion that's unsustainable. It's built into all our systems.
"Go forth and multiply" was great in the days of small tribes, wandering a huge expanse of land. But makes no sense now at all. China tried to stop it, with the one child policy, and failed. Pollys are still saying we need more population to improve the economy.

The only way we can keep expanding, is to create a Dyson sphere, that could keep us going for a few millennia. But I doubt we'll have the capability to do so until it's too late. Certainly not if we're all stuck in the metaverse.

Unless of course we all live in the metaverse, and robots keep the physical system running.

Don't you think that world is already going in one direction only?
-because of Covid, people are paid to stay at home, so nobody need to work, all money could be printed out
-thanks to Metaverse people may not need to socialize at pub or cafe, Just stay at home glued to computer screen.
_thanks to Tesla people don't need to drive and car could get you everywhere or bring online shopping to you.
-robots and automates already do most of the job at factories and now field to grow food.

It seems for me that system works almost perfect without human interaction.
So the question arise what are humans for in this cycle? Completely redundant, one may think....

but what I found fascinating,!!

We are already playing GOD.

Yep, we build already first self replicating biological robots.

NOW !! If only one of those escape form our LEVEL V laboratories ( like a covid could ) , jump into ocean, nobody could save us anymore !!!

edition.cnn.com/2021/11/29/americas/xenobots-self-replicating-robots-scn/index.html

PS> I wonder how long it takes in artificially accelerated evolution ,
for this blumb to look around and discover , start enjoy windsurfing or kiting ,winging now just bathing in oceans.
No joke at all because we could easy attach whole human DNA to this sponge and let it go into ocean.

Yep, there is another hope. If one of those escape to ocean and starts to replicate,
we could design another one, that will go after and kill/ eat the first one.

If that one turn on us , we could always pack our bags and go the the Mars , where ELON prepared warm houses for all.

Now we could design our own SBverse experiment.

step1. we could take all post send here to SB by 5 most frequent writers. ( FN, Cran, Loft, etc usual Macro enemies)
step2.
throw all posts into one big , bag ( database) step3Create new Fictional identity on SBstep 4Randomly draw sentences from this big bag of abuses and complaints look as posts , replay to any other posts.

step 5

ask people if anybody stop the trick,
the boot not another person.?
IF somebody could recognize any difference between random drawn abuses by robo boot and real FN and others?

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Macroscien said..
Now we could design our own SBverse experiment. .......Randomly draw sentences .....

That's what I thought you did already, Macro.

Although not sure you always capture the entire sentence, sometimes it seems more like a post of randomly collected letters and symbols....

and even then I'm not sure all of them are actual real letters..

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Macroscien said..
...
step1. we could take all post send here to SB by 5 most frequent writers. ( FN, Cran, Loft, etc usual Marco enemies)

Is there someone called Marco on here or are you even getting your own name wrong? I had always assumed it was a problem with English not being your first language, but now I am thinking its something in the water on the Gold Coast.

You should have kept the windmill.

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Macroscien said..
step 5
ask people if anybody stop the trick,
the boot not another person.?
IF somobody could recognize any difference between random drawn abuses by robo boot and real FN and others?

The problem would be that people would read your post, read the random response and then wonder if you have been been standing too close to the chainsaw again, or assume that your post is the one generated from the randomiser.

What have you got against somo's?

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Carantoc said..

Macroscien said..
Now we could design our own SBverse experiment. .......Randomly draw sentences .....

That's what I thought you did already, Macro.

Although not sure you always capture the entire sentence, sometimes it seems more like a post of randomly collected letters and symbols....

and even then I'm not sure all of them are actual real letters..

How is that this does not draw you to top spot on the list of enemies? Is it too obtuse? Is it the GC thing again?

Then again 'Cran', maybe you are on the list and we just haven't received the latest updates?

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decrepit said..
China tried to stop it, with the one child policy, and failed. Pollys are still saying we need more population to improve the economy.

Did China fail with the one-child policy, or just get to where they wanted to be?

Our politicians just do it because it looks good on paper. The GDP goes up (because the population goes up), and you can even make a huge dog's breakfast of it, and it still looks good unless you look under the covers and then realise that living standards per person are actually falling. Its stupid policy for stupid politicians, but the public can be fooled for quite a while.

'Hey look, our GDP has gone up, aren't we good!'... but maybe your wages are not going up, but inflation is.

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Macroscien said..
No joke at all because we could easy attach whole human DNA to this sponge and let it go into ocean.

That's not very ecologically responsible. I hope there are not too many of your sponges floating around 'The Train'.

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FormulaNova said..
How is that this does not draw you to top spot..... Then again 'Cran', maybe you are on the list ...

Cran / Carn / Narc / Arcn ??

who knows who is on Marco / Macro / Mao 's list.

Then again maybe it is a lisp not a list. Or maybe a tils or a tisl ?

I gave up wondering years ago.

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FormulaNova said..

Carantoc said..

Macroscien said..
Now we could design our own SBverse experiment. .......Randomly draw sentences .....

That's what I thought you did already, Macro.

Although not sure you always capture the entire sentence, sometimes it seems more like a post of randomly collected letters and symbols....

and even then I'm not sure all of them are actual real letters..

How is that this does not draw you to top spot on the list of enemies? Is it too obtuse? Is it the GC thing again?

Then again 'Cran', maybe you are on the list and we just haven't received the latest updates?

I need to call for help !
I did ask my friends to treat you gently ,
but you know the drill .Some parts of internal investigations could be un - pleasant ( you actually may like it< who knows).


Who want first? FN or Cran?



Yep, you may be already abducted in the past,
and that may explain that everything, FN
you hate all Aliens since then.. Macro including

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decrepit said..
Eppo, I think you're saying we evolved to self destruct, does seem that way?

I think that is an effect rather than an evolutionary cause. Technology over the past 3-400 years has amplified this and this rate of change is a curve. But all tech does is increase the effects - the cause lies at a more fundamental level and hasn't changed. I'm not knocking our technological advances though, we either evolve or we cease to exist.

macro I would need a big dose of mushrooms to have any chance of following your trains of thought lol.

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eppo said..

decrepit said..
Eppo, I think you're saying we evolved to self destruct, does seem that way?

I think that is an effect rather than an evolutionary cause. Technology over the past 3-400 years has amplified this and this rate of change is a curve. But all tech does is increase the effects - the cause lies at a more fundamental level and hasn't changed. I'm not knocking our technological advances though, we either evolve or we cease to exist.

macro I would need a big dose of mushrooms to have any chance of following your trains of thought lol.

What may be interesting to know: If during the latest 60,000 years humans become :
a) more violent?
b) more peaceful?

Even most recently
Latest century XX is definitely the bloodiest in human history
but
XXI may soon overshadow everything in history

Even close up to our site demonstrate that most participants come here looking for fight, not peaceful thought exchange.

Elon is right:
Humans have only two options available to survive:
a) escape to Mars
b) implant chipset to everyone here on Earth




Isn't' it beautiful? One flip of the switch and FN will be listening his favorite Vivaldi violin quartet ,
but the rest of body becomes paralyzed, unable to scribble anything on SB.

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Carantoc said..

FormulaNova said..
How is that this does not draw you to top spot..... Then again 'Cran', maybe you are on the list ...

Cran / Carn / Narc / Arcn ??

who knows who is on Marco / Macro / Mao 's list.

Then again maybe it is a lisp not a list. Or maybe a tils or a tisl ?

I gave up wondering years ago.

I could see the lack of gratitude on your behalf.
FN pleased you with green finger every time
and you give him nothing in exchange.
FN haven't been thumbed by you or Bob or anything else long time.

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eppo said..

macro I would need a big dose of mushrooms to have any chance of following your trains of thought lol.

What those magic mushrooms may cause in your opinion?
a) inflate imagination ?
b) degrade intellectual capacity?
c) bend and screw?

I am mushroom free, but interesting to learn from experts in the field.


edition.cnn.com/2014/09/17/health/magic-mushroom-chemical-depression/index.html

So according to your diagnosis I may present symptoms of " free mind"
and most of people here on SB don't have free mind
need to eat mushroom to get free


edition.cnn.com/2014/09/17/health/magic-mushroom-chemical-depression/index.html

Has anyone seen macroscien and greenleader in the same room together at the same time?

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vodka said..
Has anyone seen macroscien and greenleader in the same room together at the same time?

You might have the wrong name there.

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Macroscien said..

Carantoc said..

FormulaNova said..
How is that this does not draw you to top spot..... Then again 'Cran', maybe you are on the list ...

Cran / Carn / Narc / Arcn ??

who knows who is on Marco / Macro / Mao 's list.

Then again maybe it is a lisp not a list. Or maybe a tils or a tisl ?

I gave up wondering years ago.

I could see the lack of gratitude on your behalf.
FN pleased you with green finger every time
and you give him nothing in exchange.
FN haven't been thumbed by you or Bob or anything else long time.

Yeah, what he said!

Got to love our modern media. Nueralinks first order of business is to help for instance paraplegics to maybe walk again. But the headline is all about streaming music into your head. Mars or being chipped may indeed be our only option for survival.

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FormulaNova said..

Macroscien said..

Carantoc said..

FormulaNova said..
How is that this does not draw you to top spot..... Then again 'Cran', maybe you are on the list ...

Cran / Carn / Narc / Arcn ??

who knows who is on Marco / Macro / Mao 's list.

Then again maybe it is a lisp not a list. Or maybe a tils or a tisl ?

I gave up wondering years ago.

I could see the lack of gratitude on your behalf.
FN pleased you with green finger every time
and you give him nothing in exchange.
FN haven't been thumbed by you or Bob or anything else long time.

Yeah, what he said!

Yep, I may have at least plenty of enemies here
but looks that you FN
don't have any friends here!

Here is your chance. Get alcohol vodka man , till still intoxicated and you may have your mate, on the same brain wave.

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eppo said..
Got to love our modern media. Nueralinks first order of business is to help for instance paraplegics to maybe walk again. But the headline is all about streaming music into your head. Mars or being chipped may indeed be our only option for survival.

For me everything is clear.
Elon is smart man.
Democracy doesn't work.
To control his people on Mars don't need any army, militia or police.
Simple chipset in the brain. But people will not accept chipset under any such precedence.

so Neuralink chipset will definitely work in reverse. Could make everybody paraplegic's at any request,
Beside Neuralink could also activate your pleasure regions in the brain: so a bit stimulation and you don't need anything else: drugs ,money sex, smoke, FB and social interaction.

Experiments on monkey demonstrated that electric activation of those pleasure regions in the brain is addictive.
Monkey that could press a button to stimulate itself will do so constantly, and starve to death eventually.



Neuralink prototype?
nothing new.
Like EV invented a century ago, now rediscovered by Tesla.