When you purchase an existing business you usually pay for Good Will which is built up over time for good service etc to the previous customers, which were covered by the warranty.
Therefore you also inherit the previous work that was the basis of the Good Will and be obliged to warranty any previous work going back as far as the company warranty promises.
The new owner should take that into account when purchasing, good with the bad so to speak.

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AUS 808 said..
When you purchase an existing business you usually pay for Good Will which is built up over time for good service etc to the previous customers, which were covered by the warranty.
Therefore you also inherit the previous work that was the basis of the Good Will and be obliged to warranty any previous work going back as far as the company warranty promises.
The new owner should take that into account when purchasing, good with the bad so to speak.

That is precisely my point, and I bet most people who have anything to do with a business, being a paying customer, would think so too.

The way I understand it is that when you buy into a business as a "going concern", you take on the just about everything besides the business name. If it is a well run business, it will logically has a good customer base. Return customers who reward you with solid loyalty for your good efforts. If it had been badly run, why then would you want to keep the same business name? Start from afresh and wipe the slate clean.

That is why I believe Strayan laws and the so-called consumer protection agencies are mere cartoon cutouts. They are just a pretense and mean absolutely nothing to customers when it comes to conflict resolution.

jupe you got 10 years out of a cheap jack fix !!! . its time to rip out the shower and probably the rest of the bathroom and fix it , properly !!!!

The legal entity (company) that offered the warranty no longer exists. That's pretty much the end of it, no amount of phone calls to people that have a different opinion (that you're not listening to) or opinions on the internet is going to change that.

It's a ****ty deal but it is what it is.

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It's probably people like you that made the previous guy sell up. If not a company then probably only a one man show, maybe a couple more. We are not talking big business here. I remember being taught that 90% of builders are no longer in business after 5 years. Of the remaining 10%, 90% are gone in the next 5. Most don't leave because they've made too much money.

Did you consider that the product may have failed? If this is the case, the manufacturer may have folded. The installer may have gone under due to doing too many warranty jobs off their own back (should have insurance though). The new owner is probably struggling to get by, the last thing he needs is a whinger, trying to get free services. You got ten years, deal with it.

And no, they wouldn't be able to test and repair future problems. Very hard to predict house movement or pipe leaks. Both happen, both would not be covered by your warranty.

Removing business from someone is poor form. I'd be hoping that you make a few more phone calls. 1 to real estate agent to get them to remove from black list ( chances are they hung up the phone and did nothing anyway). 2 all the business and apologise, if you do it sincerely you may get further than by being a tight ass. Do you like being blamed for things that happened years before you took over your job? If the Govt thinks it's not his problem, don't make it.

Well, thank for nothing for those who believed that a warranty is as good as a piece of used toilet paper. As I said earlier, if you offered a warranty, especially one that is above and over others will, I bet it gives you a commercial advantage. As a result, people will choose you over those who offered less warranty. So deal with that fact.

I suspect some of you are in business which are offering warranty. And I also suspect you don't want to see yourself having to deal with a whinging customer like me who believes a promise is to be kept, and not tossed away as it suits you.

Don't like what I wrote, don't bloody well read it. As for McLovin, do you understand what it means when you take over an existing business? Especially when you are taking on the lot, ie. business name, contacts. You are banking on previous customer loyalty, a returned business.

And Christ6971, don't get cranky with me. I can choose to accept or reject opinions, just like you could. So leave if you don't like it.

I'm with you Jupiter.

I'm now over my culture shock of over-self-rated, over-priced, shonky tradies, surfing the net/putting a bet on, while fielding calls from their next customer, all on your dime.
It's all quality assurances and feigned mate-iness during the quote/sales period of the relationship, but it's deny/reject/abuse if any dissatisfaction is voiced.
Shame on (from my experiences, most of) you tradies.

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Buster fin said..
I'm with you Jupiter.

I'm now over my culture shock of over-self-rated, over-priced, shonky tradies, surfing the net/putting a bet on, while fielding calls from their next customer, all on your dime.
It's all quality assurances and feigned mate-iness during the quote/sales period of the relationship, but it's deny/reject/abuse if any dissatisfaction is voiced.
Shame on (from my experiences, most of) you tradies.

Thank you, Buster Fin.

Despite some people dislike shopping at a particular large hardware store, may be because it sells mainly Chinese-made products, or may be it is becoming too large, and hence over-shadowing those smaller hardware store. For me, I always go for all, yes, all my DIY stuff such as power tools. Why? Warranty.

Quite a few occasions I had to go back for a warranty claim. Between you and me, sometimes it was me who f it up in the first place. However, always the same result. No question asked. A pleasant smile and a replacement were given, and I walked out a happy chappy and I am perfectly happy to go back there again next time.

So it is the warranty, and the willingness to back it up without fuss. If you can't or won't back it up, why not simply say "Take your chances, mate !" I am sure you will get zero customer.

I'm a tradie, Builder actually. I know that I offer a warranty. It's govt mandated. I also know that I will keep paying my insurance after I finish trading so that I will be able to use it if there is a first time it's needed. If I can't pay my insurance it is because I'm bankrupt, without my insurance I'd have to pay out of my own pocket. I don't doubt you should be able to have a crack at previous owner, just expect them to be very low on funds and probably no longer insured.

As for the new owner, I think you said not a company? He probably bought the materials and tools, the name was probably worth very little. Organic search results would already be there, that's a plus. But in a small market like that you'd get to the top pretty fast. You wouldn't expect heaps of repeat customers, some for sure and a bit of word of mouth. However most customers would be hitting google up because they have a leaky shower. Seriously how often have you actually recommended a tradie, or more importantly how often do you call someone recommended to you? How often is it leak repairers? not many people would be chatting about it, the name would carry very little besides it's organic rank.

Tradies get a bad name, should be the other way round. A lot of the clients out there are not very timely, try to haggle, nit pic to save a buck, demanding and rude. Sure, the majority are great, but there a lot of bad ones. Doesn't take many of these before tradies start to dislike clients in general. Take me for example, I'm uncharacteristically fired up about this. I hate clients now. I used to like them. I generally have great clients. They are generally stoked with the work done. Yet I still have grown to hate them. Why?

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mclovin said..
I'm a tradie, Builder actually. I know that I offer a warranty. It's govt mandated. I also know that I will keep paying my insurance after I finish trading so that I will be able to use it if there is a first time it's needed. If I can't pay my insurance it is because I'm bankrupt, without my insurance I'd have to pay out of my own pocket. I don't doubt you should be able to have a crack at previous owner, just expect them to be very low on funds and probably no longer insured.

As for the new owner, I think you said not a company? He probably bought the materials and tools, the name was probably worth very little. How often is it leak repairers? not many people would be chatting about it, the name would carry very little besides it's organic rank.

Tradies get a bad name, should be the other way round. A lot of the clients out there are not very timely, try to haggle, nit pic to save a buck, demanding and rude. Sure, the majority are great, but there a lot of bad ones. Doesn't take many of these before tradies start to dislike clients in general. Take me for example, I'm uncharacteristically fired up about this. I hate clients now. I used to like them. I generally have great clients. They are generally stoked with the work done. Yet I still have grown to hate them. Why?

Well, I thought you were judging by the way you went about it. But not a criticism as opinions are there for me to take or leave. I have a lot of respect for tradies as I found out how much is there to learn to do some simple things.

No, I am now resigned to the fact that it is pointless to chase anyone up, and that is probably exactly the previous and current owners expected me to do anyway. No big deal, a lesson learned, it being NOT to take warranty provided too seriously. But then there lies a problem. We often crap on about "Buy Australian First" because we are offering the best out ther. Sounds a bit hollow, innit ?

It is not traded as a company as it only has an ABN Number. Perhaps I should select one traded as a company ? As for the name, and what does it worth? I believe it actually worth a bit. Word of mouth is the best advertisement, like they said. My real estate agent which is one of the largest one, found this mob then as they also believed that the long warranty is the way to go

As for you resentments towards your clients, that is a strange one. I thought customers are "always right" ? Unless tradies are getting so many jobs that the situation is reversed ? May be you should get into something different like becoming a bouncer for nightclubs ? You are legally allowed to dislike clients

Customer is always right. That is exactly why they are disliked. When they don't have a clue about what is involved but tell a professional how it should be done. That's not seen in to many industries.

I know multiple people who have bought names all with a more regular clientele. The names for them were only a tiny value compared to the assets they acquired. They'd all help you out, but wouldn't honour someone else's warranty.

Being a company doesn't necessarily mean much. Anyone starting up with a bit of money behind them would be silly not to go that way. Won't help you, but will protect their assets. Whereas a sole trader is puting their own house on the line, probably can't justify the small cost of becoming a company.

jupes you chose a cheap fix for your shower 10 years ago !!!! you should have done the repair/replacement then ! ten years ago !

instead you want to chase a bloke and get another cheap fix on your shower FOR FREE !!!!

just pay someone to replace it !! the frame will need repairing as well !!! do the job properly ,and stop grizzling about a Band-Aid job that didn't last forever

IM with you there Mcloving .
Im a builder also I have often wanted to make a website that rates the customers .
You have them for the trades you can look up dept of fair trading & see if there is any complaints but you can't do that with customers .
Unfortunately every now & then you get a complete asshole as a customer I would like to see them listed .
Ive been to jobs were everyone has had to take customer to court to get paid Thats the carpenter ,electrician, plumber ,kitchen installer. roofers tilers etc everyone .
The customer is always right attitude astounds me a bit as lets face it you don't tell your surgeon how to do your operation
yet not knowing which way a screw tightens somehow makes you qualified to tell your trade how to do the job.
It defies belief sometimes .

I think some of the worst are the ones who want a shmick job done but to suit their budget. Can't be done. You jump through hoop after hoop to try to satisfy. End of the day they aren't paying enough to get the look they have in their mind. I feel for them, I'm one of them. All they want is something to be proud of. It's these jobs where both parties end up walking away disappointed. One did the work for free, the other spent all of their money without the result they wanted. If they are good people they will understand that they are restricted by their budget, it's the A holes who can't see this that cause the troubles. That's why a million dollar house will probably be significantly smaller than 5 $200k houses. Quality takes time and money.

Even when we have done housing trust work, the govt will gut and start again for water damaged bathrooms. A reseal is a bandaid. If a bathroom is leaking it probably wasn't very good to begin with. A bandaid will only stick to **** so long before it falls off. Bandaid will be fine, probably still have a little **** stuck to it. That would be your main problem to deal with, not trying to extract a few hundred from some poor bloke just to put another bandaid on.

I've only ever done one reseal, didn't want to do it. What's behind your walls? What's holding your tile roof up? Cheap and easy to see is to take off the gyprock on the other side. Chances are there is significantly less timber there than there once was. Very common for the bottom of a few studs to be missing. Hopefully there's no roof framing on that wall, bandaids won't hold that up during a big blow.

When I started this thread, I meant to get an idea whether I have ground to stand on when I have a warranty still has 5 years outstanding. I also wanted to see if others have the same problems like mine, problems such as recalcitrant tradies, useless consumer protection departments, and above all, what people's attitudes towards tradies.

Interesting enough, a mixed bag as per usual. As expected, consumers on one side, and tradies on the other. Then of course there are those who liked to shout out their opinions and expect others to accept them

Yes, just swallow it and pay up another shoddy tradie and get another useless warranty which may give you some peace of mind, but ultimately means f-all as the original one packed up and probably start up another business and call it a different name.

As for those who advised me to just swallow it as the entire shower should had been ripped up and re-done again ! Well, that would be another lot of job for tradies who charge $100/hour. My question to such "helpful" suggestion is this....
"Why did it end up having to be ripped up completely ?"

M answer would not please some of the tradies here. Is it because it was done by shonky tradies in the first place. Well, that certainly will ruffle some feather !

Then I have another question...
"If the shower was indeed in such a bad condition, why then the repairer didn't suggest a complete overhaul is needed ?" But instead I was promised it will be honky dory and it will last 15 years ! Come on tradies, you can do better than that !

McLovin must be happily retired now, given the fact that he is beginning to 'HATE his clients. That is a huge word. So you must have been doing alright out out your clients? Made enough dough not worry about keeping them on your side and start hating them ? I would dearly love to be in such a position where I can take money out of their hands and hate them for giving away their money

My properties are managed by real estate agency. I have no direct involvement in getting who to do the job, let alone being able to tell tradies how to do their job. So such generalisation does not apply. But then again, you are taking money from them, you can always pack up and leave. I believe that at $100.hour you don't need that many jobs to bring you above and beyond the high-income threshold anyway.

HAHA retired! I'm struggling to put food on the table for my young family. Very few trades can get away with $100 an hour, generally only in and out style trades. When I employed 6 guys and quoted on 70 an hour I regularly made very little money. After that $70 you have a whole heap of expenses before you get to an hourly wage. I had to get rid of them just to keep afloat. I make more by myself, while charging a lot less. You can't build a house charging $100 an hour.

I know of a few boss tradies making big bucks, a few sole traders making ok coin, a whole heap of tradies doing it tough, a lot that have lost everything. Do not paint all tradies with the same negative brush. I love building, just the clients that have made it something I am moving away from. After a solid week (50 plus hours at work + computer time after family goes to bed) I went to work for my usual Saturday. Hoping to leave early, only to have a client rock up an hour late. This means a 7 hour Sat. Work every second sunday. Not sure if you know this but most clients expect you to come and quote out of business hours. That's right, I get to start at seven then wait for you to get home at 6 to meet so that I can finish and drive home to a house with the kids already in bed. Half the time the first thing they say is just trying to get a rough idea on price, don't even have any real intention. That is unpaid work. I resent people thinking we are overpaid, while getting paid a guaranteed annual salary, holidays, sick days, long service, super. My mortgage doesn't get paid if I take a day off.

Oh yeah, you can only work to the clients budget, if that drops so will quality. Volume builders are so cheap, my tiler costs 3x more per square meter. My bathrooms don't leak. If the general population can only afford cheap houses unfortunately the build quality won't be there. It will be a disposable house. This is not a tradesman skill problem, they get told do this for $x. They have to rush so they can pay their bills.

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mclovin said..
HAHA retired! I'm struggling to put food on the table for my young family. Very few trades can get away with $100 an hour, generally only in and out style trades. When I employed 6 guys and quoted on 70 an hour I regularly made very little money. After that $70 you have a whole heap of expenses before you get to an hourly wage. I had to get rid of them just to keep afloat. I make more by myself, while charging a lot less. You can't build a house charging $100 an hour.

I know of a few boss tradies making big bucks, a few sole traders making ok coin, a whole heap of tradies doing it tough, a lot that have lost everything. Do not paint all tradies with the same negative brush. I love building, just the clients that have made it something I am moving away from. After a solid week (50 plus hours at work + computer time after family goes to bed) I went to work for my usual Saturday. Hoping to leave early, only to have a client rock up an hour late. This means a 7 hour Sat. Work every second sunday. Not sure if you know this but most clients expect you to come and quote out of business hours. That's right, I get to start at seven then wait for you to get home at 6 to meet so that I can finish and drive home to a house with the kids already in bed. Half the time the first thing they say is just trying to get a rough idea on price, don't even have any real intention. That is unpaid work. I resent people thinking we are overpaid, while getting paid a guaranteed annual salary, holidays, sick days, long service, super. My mortgage doesn't get paid if I take a day off.

I am paying $125 for this mob just to turn up. Then $100/hour. I must get you to do my repair

How about this guy whom I had spoken with and organized to do some maintenance work. Never did turn up. No contact afterward. Just vanished ! Sure, I shouldn't have lumped the worse with the best. But facing deadline to get some repair done, and missed it. I ended up paying someone without knowing how much it will cost right on the day.

Not all apples are bad, and I am sure of it. But experience tells me I may be wrong !

The problem can be that one job takes longer than expected and this compounds. It can be very easy to be late, no show. If you are working hard the phone ain't getting touched. Tradies work a damn lot harder than the majority of people. You can't bludge and still get paid.

I deal in larger jobs. You can't expect to get a job if you charge to look, doesn't build a good relationship. Small work is a pain in the ass. That fee to look is probably the only thing keeping them on business. Chances are that they have been burned too much by tire kickers that they have no other option.

I think bunnings charge similar for a kitchen, only suckers get a kitchen from bunnings.

Charge up is win win. You don't get an overpriced quote and they can't lose money. Will end up with a better result. If you have been recommended someone then you should be getting good quality. If you have just cold called it shows that a business name isn't worth much.

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mclovin said..
Charge up is win win. You don't get an overpriced quote and they can't lose money. Will end up with a better result. If you have been recommended someone then you should be getting good quality. If you have just cold called it shows that a business name isn't worth much.

Sounding like I had been dealing with a bunch of slackers in the past. If tradies actually acted like what you have just described, I am certain that consumer complaints will be non-existent. But is it ?

As for the tradie I was dealing with and didn't show up, not even a call to tell me about the missed appointment, I am not sure I can survive in a real business environment myself if I did that myself. I have been self employed. If I can't make the appointment, I did have the good grace, and I suspect it is just common courtesy to inform before hand. Or at least to apologise later.

I don't know what you meant by "cold calling" or "hot calling". You have a business with a business name and an ABN, you are held responsible for it. You took the money and you gave a promise for good quality work, you back it up. Otherwise it is just bull-crap to me.

I believe in USA it is a common practice to shut up shop and change ownership, or call it a different name. It is called "Phoenixing". Just like a phoenix which rise from the ashes. It is a dodge to wriggle oneself to rid of all previous obligations such as warranty. So Straya is not alone, sadly !

Of course there are good and bad, same everywhere. I always let people know if I'm going to be late. You've got to remember these aren't people sitting at a desk in an office. It can be hard to stay organised. Good tradesmen are busy.

If you sound like hard work, many guys will avoid you. They can pick it up on the phone. You do sound like hard work, I'm totally not surprised you struggle to get a good tradie. Why waste their valuable time on someone that is going to be a hassle. Some people get 5 quotes for a $1k job.

This isn't the usa. I do know people that have folded and started a new company. They were big. Small guys aren't going to bother. If they've gone under i doubt they'd do the same again. I bet it wouldn't be a fun process to fold and start again. More likely they get a job on wages and get their life back.

You may have overlooked one element here though Jupiter: the work getting set up by the real estate agency.
Again in my experience, they hire the cheapest, probably kick-backing-mate, tradies.

I definitely try to work with recommendations.

The silly thing is you got some sole trader to do the job when you could have got a franchise,shopfront or corporate style building co to do the same work for the same price knowing they would still likely be around and trading in 15 years time. I wouldn't have even considered the 15 year warranty at the time of purchase as I know unless it's a shopfront business the chances of him still being around, in town and willing are zip. Chalk it up to being a Muppet. Take everyone's advise and strip it and redoo it or u will be back here whinging in a few years

Yes, it is ** that when you bought you thought you were covered.
Yes, it is ** that people get away with it.

As far as warranties go... I long ago gave up on almost all warranties being of any benefit.
Been screwed over on heaps of them for various reasons.

I've even asked what the price would be without the warranty; if its the same price, you know exactly how much the warranty is worth.

I make buying decisions based on the warranty not existing, if the company does come through, they have me as a customer.

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mclovin said..
Of course there are good and bad, same everywhere. I always let people know if I'm going to be late. You've got to
If you sound like hard work, many guys will avoid you. They can pick it up on the phone. You do sound like hard work, I'm totally not surprised you struggle to get a good tradie. Why waste their valuable time on someone that is going to be a hassle. Some people get 5 quotes for a $1k job.

This isn't the usa. I do know people that have folded and started a new company. They were big. Small guys aren't going to bother. If they've gone under i doubt they'd do the same again. I bet it wouldn't be a fun process to fold and start again. More likely they get a job on wages and get their life back.

Well. getting personal are we ? So you judged me to be hard work ? The fact that I demanded my warranty to be honoured ?

You are wrong. That wouldn't surprise me as you sounded like just the type of up-yourself kind of tradie who believes that customers owe them a living. And for you, biting the hand which feed you when you said you hated your clients !

For your information, I didn't have a choice to choose my tradie. It was made by my real estate agent. So be clear about that before you made such a insulting assertion.

By the way, do you offer warranty of any kind ? Or your warranty comes in one of the following...
(1). May be
(2). Perhaps,
(3). Flexible,
(4). Are you being serious,
(5). Fat chance ?
(6). Leave me alone, I hate you !

The good thing about the cheap $495 shower waterproofing quick fixes for rental properties is the job is done in less than a few hours, the tenants can use the shower that night, when its the only shower no need to move them out, & it gets done tomorrow rather than the planning required to do a strip out of the shower floor & likely framing etc etc etc. The $495 jobs have their place & can be good for old places that are likely to be fully gutted or bulldozed in 10-15yrs.
I'm surprised the RE (or tradie) didn't give you the option of the proper gut & fix, it was probably all too hard, not to mention costly, they no doubt treat different landlords differently.
As a chippie, I have organised lots of the $495 shower fixes for RE's, but as the middle-man have knocked the ridiculous 15yr warranty back to the statutory 6yrs & never had any worries or complaints

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Jupiter said..

mclovin said..
Of course there are good and bad, same everywhere. I always let people know if I'm going to be late. You've got to
If you sound like hard work, many guys will avoid you. They can pick it up on the phone. You do sound like hard work, I'm totally not surprised you struggle to get a good tradie. Why waste their valuable time on someone that is going to be a hassle. Some people get 5 quotes for a $1k job.

This isn't the usa. I do know people that have folded and started a new company. They were big. Small guys aren't going to bother. If they've gone under i doubt they'd do the same again. I bet it wouldn't be a fun process to fold and start again. More likely they get a job on wages and get their life back.

Well. getting personal are we ? So you judged me to be hard work ? The fact that I demanded my warranty to be honoured ?

You are wrong. That wouldn't surprise me as you sounded like just the type of up-yourself kind of tradie who believes that customers owe them a living. And for you, biting the hand which feed you when you said you hated your clients !

For your information, I didn't have a choice to choose my tradie. It was made by my real estate agent. So be clear about that before you made such a insulting assertion.

By the way, do you offer warranty of any kind ? Or your warranty comes in one of the following...
(1). May be
(2). Perhaps,
(3). Flexible,
(4). Are you being serious,
(5). Fat chance ?
(6). Leave me alone, I hate you !

You sound like a whole other kind of hard work...remember the thread you started complaining about the qoute you got for a cutlery drawer?
You got shot out of the sky there padre innit

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djt91184 said..

You sound like a whole other kind of hard work...remember the thread you started complaining about the qoute you got for a cutlery drawer?
You got shot out of the sky there padre innit

Are you stalking me ?

Was I shot out of the sky ? Or was it your own wish that I was ? You are not exactly the kind of intelligent contributor I would like to see in my thread. But it is a forum and all are welcome, include you. So keep reading and keep learning. I suggest your spelling is a good start.

That was a while ago when I talked about the drawers, so obviously your memory is not stuffed entirely due to your fondness of Valium.

MODERATOR he hurt my feelings

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Jupiter said..

whinge whinge
Some interesting stuff
Winge winge

Mate what happened sux you paid and got a warranty with who knows how many stipulations and are facing another repair so either do it yourself as suggested or go for the major repair and be done with it, thats what you should of posted hey my showers ****ed should i go fo a cheap repair or fix it properly.
Without realizing you sot of get personal when you knock a proud tradie we are not all that bad and rip offs and pretty across the board for any jobs to have dodgy scammers know several people that paid 1 fiddy to have a 20 year old turn up in a Hyundai getz to switch their computer on and off but also appreciate someone that knows what their doing.
And yeah nothing worse than a bad customer thankfully few and far between.