Why is our unemployment rate so low at the moment? What is the reason things are so good, when we are suffering in a pandemic?

Cause the OS workers havent been able to get in so more jobs for locals
Work for the dole crew have been sent to WA mines as slave labour, so they no longer count as "unemployed"

The "pandemic" has actually opened up a massive amount of job opportunities if you are wise and jump at whats on offer.

Once upon a time, well yesterday actually, I went to a licensed premises. I showed a digital passport. They let me in.

The End.

There's also the usual figure fudging. Work only an hour a week and you're no longer considered unemployed.

Yes, Buster hit the nail right on the head, the numbers are Bull s**t.

Not only are the numbers not showing the "underemployed" they are also "seasonally adjusted" with the colonels secret herbs an spices (fudge factor) to hid real figures.

Interest rates are so low, companies have been borrowing as much money as they can, and they need staff to work on the companies expansion.

The economy is going really well. Turns out we spent more than everyone thought overseas and werent so reliant on pump priming the economy with foreigners

Yeah, I was really surprised seeing a few new projects ticking along with no 457's... Last few, they made up the majority of workers, because we didn't have the skills here locally... So amazed that all the Aussies have completed a trade in a year and that we can now do it ourselves.

oh I dont know, maybe its the 1 Trillion AUD in debt the government has racked up. Most governments around the world have done the same. Just keep some money saved for the bust that follows the boom.

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FormulaNova said..
Why is our unemployment rate so low at the moment? What is the reason things are so good..

Does the unemployment rate go down when things are good ?

When things are good don't more people take the good and stop working ? Even just stop for a while, if things are good you know it would be easy to survive for a bit and get another job pretty easy.
When things are bad, the dole doesn't pay the rent and food costs twice what it should maybe more people go get a job. Maybe less people quit if they don't think they can get another job.


Then again maybe it is just all statistics.

Perhaps they have to fudge the numbers around after every expert declared there would be 500,000 job loses when job keeper ended. I suppose most people have forgotten about that expert advised calamity that didn't happen and we are all worried about the next one. Can't get a RAT kit, OMG, world is going to end..

Bloke at work is well stocked up on RAT kits. Used. His missus is a nurse. Can provide positive or negative.

Amazing, the free market!

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Carantoc said..
Does the unemployment rate go down when things are good ?
...
Then again maybe it is just all statistics.
..

We have run out of Covid topics to attack each other, so I thought I would create this, while still trying to prevent it becoming political...

Interesting to read the comments on 457s and still being able to function. Shows you what really affects things. I am old enough to remember when apprenticeships were common. Then it converted to traineeships which seemed to allow shorter training periods. Then it seems to have converted to just shipping in already trained workers with the excuse that they cannot train them.

With plenty of import workers, it boosts the GDP and looks good on the face of it, but unemployment rates increase. Governments have gotten used to crowing about how good the GDP increase is, but at the same time there is no wage growth and people's lifestyle is not as good.

I think Australia does better when there is a low unemployment level as people are gainfully employed, but it increases wages. The government then get worried about businesses complaining about having to pay more.

Anyhoo, its good to see politicians claiming they are doing a good job because unemployment rates are down, and not mentioning that it is beyond their control and that if they had their way it would be back the way it was before Covid.

Maybe this pandemic has been good to show us how it could be if we weren't chasing continuous GDP growth?

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Buster fin said..
There's also the usual figure fudging. Work only an hour a week and you're no longer considered unemployed.

Yeah, I agree with this. I have gone for periods between contracts with no work at all, and there is no way that anyone knows I am unemployed during this time. I suspect that unless you are enrolled with some government agency somewhere and getting zero hours a week for the last 3 months that you are technically 'not unemployed'.

I'm hearing the lack of 457s is creating major labour shortages, creating chaos in the mines.

Corners are being cut, this affects long term profitability, quality and the environment.

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bjw said..
I'm hearing the lack of 457s is creating major labour shortages, creating chaos in the mines.

Corners are being cut, this affects long term profitability, quality and the environment.

So what are the mines doing about it?

Traineeships?

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FormulaNova said..
Yeah, I agree with this. I have gone for periods between contracts with no work at all, and there is no way that anyone knows I am unemployed during this time. I suspect that unless you are enrolled with some government agency somewhere and getting zero hours a week for the last 3 months that you are technically 'not unemployed'.

That's not how unemployment is calculated. It's done by using a sample of households answering a questionnaire form and extrapolated from the result

www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/abs@.nsf/Lookup/by%20Subject/6102.0.55.001~Feb%202018~Main%20Features~Labour%20Force%20Survey~19

Under the current sample design, the sampling fractions yield a sample size of approximately 26,000 households each month. This results in approximately 50,000 persons responding to the survey, covering about 1 in 312 (or 0.32%) of the civilian population aged 15 years and over. For further information, refer to Information Paper: Labour Force Survey Sample Design, May 2013 (cat. no. 6269.0).

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Buster fin said..
There's also the usual figure fudging. Work only an hour a week and you're no longer considered unemployed.

Actually 1 hr a fortnight. My offspring had the pleasure of dealing with Centerlink

If your dumb enough to trust any figures, you need sacking

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cauncy said..
If your dumb enough to trust any figures, you need sacking

Trouble is, this is what various government departments use to justify whatever they want to do.

My ongoing irritation is that they import workers into a field here that already has an oversupply, and they seem to pick figures from their arse about the number of outstanding roles. What they seem to miss is that a lot of the jobs advertised are duplicates of the same actual role, and/or are offering below market rate. You are even getting immigration agents that assist in this.

But one of the issues I was getting at was that the government are currently saying how good they are because the unemployment figures are, but if they had their way there would be an oversupply of workers and the unemployment rate would be up. I have gone through years where it was just about impossible for people to get jobs and other years where people were clamoring for people to work. It ruins things when you flood the market with people instead of training them up through educational places here.

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FormulaNova said..
Trouble is, this is what various government departments use to justify whatever they want to do.

This is why I'm in favor of less government.

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FormulaNova said..
Trouble is, this is what various government departments use to justify whatever they want to do.

My ongoing irritation is that they import workers into a field here that already has an oversupply, and they seem to pick figures from their arse about the number of outstanding roles. What they seem to miss is that a lot of the jobs advertised are duplicates of the same actual role, and/or are offering below market rate. You are even getting immigration agents that assist in this.

But one of the issues I was getting at was that the government are currently saying how good they are because the unemployment figures are, but if they had their way there would be an oversupply of workers and the unemployment rate would be up. I have gone through years where it was just about impossible for people to get jobs and other years where people were clamoring for people to work. It ruins things when you flood the market with people instead of training them up through educational places here.

Maybe try employing people instead of just moaning about being an employee.

What do they say ? - be a lifter not a leaner.

Might change your whole perspective on life.

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Carantoc said..

FormulaNova said..
Trouble is, this is what various government departments use to justify whatever they want to do.

My ongoing irritation is that they import workers into a field here that already has an oversupply, and they seem to pick figures from their arse about the number of outstanding roles. What they seem to miss is that a lot of the jobs advertised are duplicates of the same actual role, and/or are offering below market rate. You are even getting immigration agents that assist in this.

But one of the issues I was getting at was that the government are currently saying how good they are because the unemployment figures are, but if they had their way there would be an oversupply of workers and the unemployment rate would be up. I have gone through years where it was just about impossible for people to get jobs and other years where people were clamoring for people to work. It ruins things when you flood the market with people instead of training them up through educational places here.

Maybe try employing people instead of just moaning about being an employee.

What do they say ? - be a lifter not a leaner.

Might change your whole perspective on life.

Who is 'they', and do you think that normal employees are all 'leaners' and that all employers are 'lifters'?

Never-the-less, that is the end goal for this year, but it just ignores the problem and forgets that real people have to exist in Australia as employees.

'We' are simultaneously claiming that Australia needs to become a smarter nation, but instead of investing in training people locally we are paying lip service to it and importing the workers. Then wondering why graduate participation is low. Another few generations and we will all become plumbers and electricians.

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FormulaNova said..

bjw said..
I'm hearing the lack of 457s is creating major labour shortages, creating chaos in the mines.

Corners are being cut, this affects long term profitability, quality and the environment.

So what are the mines doing about it?

Traineeships?

And thats the problem. When a mine is under staffed, they have no time for training. It becomes a difficult hole to dig out of, excuse the pun.

457s give them more opportunity to operate cleaner, and more efficiently.

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FormulaNova said..

Carantoc said..

FormulaNova said..
Trouble is, this is what various government departments use to justify whatever they want to do.

My ongoing irritation is that they import workers into a field here that already has an oversupply, and they seem to pick figures from their arse about the number of outstanding roles. What they seem to miss is that a lot of the jobs advertised are duplicates of the same actual role, and/or are offering below market rate. You are even getting immigration agents that assist in this.

But one of the issues I was getting at was that the government are currently saying how good they are because the unemployment figures are, but if they had their way there would be an oversupply of workers and the unemployment rate would be up. I have gone through years where it was just about impossible for people to get jobs and other years where people were clamoring for people to work. It ruins things when you flood the market with people instead of training them up through educational places here.

Maybe try employing people instead of just moaning about being an employee.

What do they say ? - be a lifter not a leaner.

Might change your whole perspective on life.

Who is 'they', and do you think that normal employees are all 'leaners' and that all employers are 'lifters'?

Never-the-less, that is the end goal for this year, but it just ignores the problem and forgets that real people have to exist in Australia as employees.

'We' are simultaneously claiming that Australia needs to become a smarter nation, but instead of investing in training people locally we are paying lip service to it and importing the workers. Then wondering why graduate participation is low. Another few generations and we will all become plumbers and electricians.

Tradies have feelings too !

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woko said..

FormulaNova said..

Carantoc said..

FormulaNova said..
Trouble is, this is what various government departments use to justify whatever they want to do.

My ongoing irritation is that they import workers into a field here that already has an oversupply, and they seem to pick figures from their arse about the number of outstanding roles. What they seem to miss is that a lot of the jobs advertised are duplicates of the same actual role, and/or are offering below market rate. You are even getting immigration agents that assist in this.

But one of the issues I was getting at was that the government are currently saying how good they are because the unemployment figures are, but if they had their way there would be an oversupply of workers and the unemployment rate would be up. I have gone through years where it was just about impossible for people to get jobs and other years where people were clamoring for people to work. It ruins things when you flood the market with people instead of training them up through educational places here.

Maybe try employing people instead of just moaning about being an employee.

What do they say ? - be a lifter not a leaner.

Might change your whole perspective on life.

Who is 'they', and do you think that normal employees are all 'leaners' and that all employers are 'lifters'?

Never-the-less, that is the end goal for this year, but it just ignores the problem and forgets that real people have to exist in Australia as employees.

'We' are simultaneously claiming that Australia needs to become a smarter nation, but instead of investing in training people locally we are paying lip service to it and importing the workers. Then wondering why graduate participation is low. Another few generations and we will all become plumbers and electricians.

Tradies have feelings too !

Housing market needs immigrants.

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woko said..

FormulaNova said..

Carantoc said..

FormulaNova said..
Trouble is, this is what various government departments use to justify whatever they want to do.

My ongoing irritation is that they import workers into a field here that already has an oversupply, and they seem to pick figures from their arse about the number of outstanding roles. What they seem to miss is that a lot of the jobs advertised are duplicates of the same actual role, and/or are offering below market rate. You are even getting immigration agents that assist in this.

But one of the issues I was getting at was that the government are currently saying how good they are because the unemployment figures are, but if they had their way there would be an oversupply of workers and the unemployment rate would be up. I have gone through years where it was just about impossible for people to get jobs and other years where people were clamoring for people to work. It ruins things when you flood the market with people instead of training them up through educational places here.

Maybe try employing people instead of just moaning about being an employee.

What do they say ? - be a lifter not a leaner.

Might change your whole perspective on life.

Who is 'they', and do you think that normal employees are all 'leaners' and that all employers are 'lifters'?

Never-the-less, that is the end goal for this year, but it just ignores the problem and forgets that real people have to exist in Australia as employees.

'We' are simultaneously claiming that Australia needs to become a smarter nation, but instead of investing in training people locally we are paying lip service to it and importing the workers. Then wondering why graduate participation is low. Another few generations and we will all become plumbers and electricians.

Tradies have feelings too !

I didnt mean that in a disrespectful way... i just figured it would be the only professions that the govt wont flood with imports.

Plumbers and electricians seem to be doing quite well at the moment.

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Pugwash said..

woko said..

FormulaNova said..

Carantoc said..

FormulaNova said..
Trouble is, this is what various government departments use to justify whatever they want to do.

My ongoing irritation is that they import workers into a field here that already has an oversupply, and they seem to pick figures from their arse about the number of outstanding roles. What they seem to miss is that a lot of the jobs advertised are duplicates of the same actual role, and/or are offering below market rate. You are even getting immigration agents that assist in this.

But one of the issues I was getting at was that the government are currently saying how good they are because the unemployment figures are, but if they had their way there would be an oversupply of workers and the unemployment rate would be up. I have gone through years where it was just about impossible for people to get jobs and other years where people were clamoring for people to work. It ruins things when you flood the market with people instead of training them up through educational places here.

Maybe try employing people instead of just moaning about being an employee.

What do they say ? - be a lifter not a leaner.

Might change your whole perspective on life.

Who is 'they', and do you think that normal employees are all 'leaners' and that all employers are 'lifters'?

Never-the-less, that is the end goal for this year, but it just ignores the problem and forgets that real people have to exist in Australia as employees.

'We' are simultaneously claiming that Australia needs to become a smarter nation, but instead of investing in training people locally we are paying lip service to it and importing the workers. Then wondering why graduate participation is low. Another few generations and we will all become plumbers and electricians.

Tradies have feelings too !

Housing market needs immigrants.

Thats a good argument to reduce the intake.

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bjw said..

FormulaNova said..

bjw said..
I'm hearing the lack of 457s is creating major labour shortages, creating chaos in the mines.

Corners are being cut, this affects long term profitability, quality and the environment.

So what are the mines doing about it?

Traineeships?

And thats the problem. When a mine is under staffed, they have no time for training. It becomes a difficult hole to dig out of, excuse the pun.

457s give them more opportunity to operate cleaner, and more efficiently.

Yeah, i dont buy it. If you run a business you need to forecast things.
You didnt train anyone? Well maybe that should be part of the business, not just an excuse.

There was a time when the training guarantee was meant to improve local skills.

When unemployment is at 4% who are you planning to train ?

The 4% dregs of society that can't get a job ?

If they ain't smart enough to flip burgers or deliver pizza around the suburbs I doubt they are going to sit through a 4 year apprenticeship working 12 hour nightshifts changing the oil on $5M dump trucks.

and if a boss/manager/owner would you seriously want to employ half the deadbeats that lay on their fat acres. I am not saying all unemployed are slobs, years back I was in that position and it became very easy to 'work the system' turn up for a training course, go into dream land, get signed off you had attended and all was sweet.
With parts of our nation that are now 3rd 4th generation unemployed is it not wonder the hole is very hard to get out of. Imagine being a high school teacher in those areas, god help us.

Underemployment is about 9%. That means there are plenty of people who are part time or casual and want either more hours or a full time job.