I always thought they were just a 12v outlet for your accessories and a cigarette lighter was just an accessory you could buy if you wanted.
I imagine back in the day a car having a built in cigarette lighter must have been exciting cutting edge new tech.

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lotofwind said..
I always thought they were just a 12v outlet for your accessories and a cigarette lighter was just an accessory you could buy if you wanted.
I imagine back in the day a car having a built in cigarette lighter must have been exciting cutting edge new tech.

You'll never understand how cool it is to have a red hot coil of metal inside a cage with your siblings locked in with you is.

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decrepit said..
Part of my problem is that I've learned to distrust computers. Given the number of passenger planes that have killed all on board because the computer got it wrong. And back a few decades, a therapy x-ray machine killed a couple of patients, because again the computer got it wrong.
So I don't like being dictated to for no reason, by some programmer, a few years ago, and several thousand kilometres away, who thinks he knows more about what's going on on the road than I do.

And loto, I think formula was talking about new cars, not 25 year old ones. Personally I'd prefer a new 2006 commodore, that had more room and fitted much more gear in. Not quite as smooth to drive perhaps, but more practical

Agreed.

I know of a car that is drive by wire for steering - there is no mechanical connection and all steering feel is essentially faked by the servos.
A couple weeks ago, colleagues had a minor kerb strike that you would not think is at all damaging. Tyre and rim - fine. However the hub was broken and alignment seriously wrong. The computer detected it and corrected for it, so the car drove normally. That was indescribably dangerous as its eventually going to explode while driving. This stuff might be fine on a little Jap suburban street, but it ain't for 6hrs at 100kph.
If it was a normal old school rack n pinion steering setup, even the most inexperienced driver would have known it was up the sh!t and stopped.

I've recently had a new Juke as a loaner and the alarms for parking sensor etc has done my head in. It fkn brakes for me trying to park 30cm from an object. Overtaking on highway, then start to merge back across it lost its sh!t at me as I've indicated for a 'lane change' but something is next to me. Well it won't be 'next to me' in 0.5 sec time as its doing 70kph and i'm doing 120kph. The first time that happens it distracts you greatly with the alarms and takes your attention away from what you should be doing.

I'll be choosing my next new car based largely upon LACK of electronic aids. Stability control and ABS, yes. But lane departure warning that shakes the steering wheel every time you do a deliberate lane change with indicating, and doesn't recognise the edge of country roads is annoying and useless (it takes the Japanese creativity to make that special combo I think)

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Mark _australia said..

decrepit said..
Part of my problem is that I've learned to distrust computers. Given the number of passenger planes that have killed all on board because the computer got it wrong. And back a few decades, a therapy x-ray machine killed a couple of patients, because again the computer got it wrong.
So I don't like being dictated to for no reason, by some programmer, a few years ago, and several thousand kilometres away, who thinks he knows more about what's going on on the road than I do.

And loto, I think formula was talking about new cars, not 25 year old ones. Personally I'd prefer a new 2006 commodore, that had more room and fitted much more gear in. Not quite as smooth to drive perhaps, but more practical

Agreed.

I know of a car that is drive by wire for steering - there is no mechanical connection and all steering feel is essentially faked by the servos.
A couple weeks ago, colleagues had a minor kerb strike that you would not think is at all damaging. Tyre and rim - fine. However the hub was broken and alignment seriously wrong. The computer detected it and corrected for it, so the car drove normally. That was indescribably dangerous as its eventually going to explode while driving. This stuff might be fine on a little Jap suburban street, but it ain't for 6hrs at 100kph.
If it was a normal old school rack n pinion steering setup, even the most inexperienced driver would have known it was up the sh!t and stopped.

I've recently had a new Juke as a loaner and the alarms for parking sensor etc has done my head in. It fkn brakes for me trying to park 30cm from an object. Overtaking on highway, then start to merge back across it lost its sh!t at me as I've indicated for a 'lane change' but something is next to me. Well it won't be 'next to me' in 0.5 sec time as its doing 70kph and i'm doing 120kph. The first time that happens it distracts you greatly with the alarms and takes your attention away from what you should be doing.

I'll be choosing my next new car based largely upon LACK of electronic aids. Stability control and ABS, yes. But lane departure warning that shakes the steering wheel every time you do a deliberate lane change with indicating, and doesn't recognise the edge of country roads is annoying and useless (it takes the Japanese creativity to make that special combo I think)

Agreeing with what you say , but new cars are sooo much safer with all that electronic tech . It can't be argued . Sure electronics fail but so does mechanicals , probably more so . In a panic situation all that safety handling electronic tech would help everyone including experienced drivers to stay in control. In my sisters new car you can turn off the beeps and warnings , if you want to go old school.

Yeah thats it Imax, if you are on a country road you just push a button and turn lane assist off, its not very complicated as some are making out.
Or maybe some people dont like the computer stopping their dangerous driving habits on the highway.

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lotofwind said..>>>> you just push a button and turn lane assist off, its not very complicated as some are making out.
Or maybe some people dont like the computer stopping their dangerous driving habits on the highway.

True if you remember to do it at start up, but it's a euro car and the off button is on the passenger's side. To turn it off you have to lean over and take your eyes off the road.

No dont do that. Pull over and hit the button if you have forgotten to turn it off.

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decrepit said..

lotofwind said..>>>> you just push a button and turn lane assist off, its not very complicated as some are making out.
Or maybe some people dont like the computer stopping their dangerous driving habits on the highway.

True if you remember to do it at start up, but it's a euro car and the off button is on the passenger's side. To turn it off you have to lean over and take your eyes off the road.

That's OK , lean over all you want , the car will drive itself .
It's the leaning back that is dangerous .

I do have some concerns with some safety features . For example , side mirror blind spot alarms . Good if your goofing off , but it will train you to not turning your head properly before changing lanes. One of the first rules when learning to drive .

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Imax1 said.. >>>>but it will train you to not turning your head properly before changing lanes. One of the first rules when learning to drive .

Yep, that's the danger, with a lot of "safety features" it diminishes the actual driving ability of the average road user. Things are bad enough here when people think that good driving is just a matter of following the rules, add relying on tech to that, and people won't be able to think for themselves.
Generalising, I think that's the way modern society is going, people don't want to think, they just want tech to do it for them. Carry on this way for a few more decades, and they'll be happy to let AI take over everything.

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Imax1 said..
I do have some concerns with some safety features . For example , side mirror blind spot alarms . Good if your goofing off , but it will train you to not turning your head properly before changing lanes. One of the first rules when learning to drive .

I think they need to add a feature to these. I have found people that seem to want to sit in my right hand 'blind-spot' and just sit there. I speed up, they sit there. I slow down, they sit there. I suspect they do this because they want someone else to watch the speedo and somehow they think sitting back there is safe??

Maybe an alarm that says 'hey you idiot, don't sit there'?

Most surprisingly, I had a motorbike do this. Are some people crazy?

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decrepit said..

Imax1 said.. >>>>but it will train you to not turning your head properly before changing lanes. One of the first rules when learning to drive .

Yep, that's the danger, with a lot of "safety features" it diminishes the actual driving ability of the average road user. Things are bad enough here when people think that good driving is just a matter of following the rules, add relying on tech to that, and people won't be able to think for themselves.
Generalising, I think that's the way modern society is going, people don't want to think, they just want tech to do it for them. Carry on this way for a few more decades, and they'll be happy to let AI take over everything.

What's the story with people and roundabouts in WA? One thing that bugs me is that people here seem to indicate their exit way before they should and you never know if they mean 'that' exit or the one after. Was there some big TV ad about roundabouts or something as I feel that in NSW almost no one bothers to indicate (left) when leaving roundabouts, they just exit.

The first few times I was surprised that the other car exited after when I thought they would, but now I am forewarned.

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FormulaNova said..
..Are some people crazy?

Hey FN,

I don't wanna sound rude (well OK I couldn't give a ****e if I sound rude) but...

You've got 11,810 posts on these forums and you still ask that question ?!??!!!



pffffftt....even a child can see the answer. Do your own research. If you don't understand I am not here to explain it to you. Moron.

^^^^I think that answers your question Formula, yes there are crazy people.

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lotofwind said.. >>>>No dont do that. Pull over and hit the button if you have forgotten to turn it off.

Yes that's the safe way, but how many people you know would actually do that?
The the philosophy behind computerised stuff is to take the irrational human out of the equation. This just puts the human back in big time.

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Carantoc said..

FormulaNova said..
..Are some people crazy?

Hey FN,

I don't wanna sound rude (well OK I couldn't give a ****e if I sound rude) but...

You've got 11,810 posts on these forums and you still ask that question ?!??!!!



pffffftt....even a child can see the answer. Do your own research. If you don't understand I am not here to explain it to you. Moron.

Easy !

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FormulaNova said..

decrepit said..

Imax1 said.. >>>>but it will train you to not turning your head properly before changing lanes. One of the first rules when learning to drive .

Yep, that's the danger, with a lot of "safety features" it diminishes the actual driving ability of the average road user. Things are bad enough here when people think that good driving is just a matter of following the rules, add relying on tech to that, and people won't be able to think for themselves.
Generalising, I think that's the way modern society is going, people don't want to think, they just want tech to do it for them. Carry on this way for a few more decades, and they'll be happy to let AI take over everything.

What's the story with people and roundabouts in WA? One thing that bugs me is that people here seem to indicate their exit way before they should and you never know if they mean 'that' exit or the one after. Was there some big TV ad about roundabouts or something as I feel that in NSW almost no one bothers to indicate (left) when leaving roundabouts, they just exit.

The first few times I was surprised that the other car exited after when I thought they would, but now I am forewarned.

Try living on Bribie Island where indicators and road rules are optional . Its best to stop at roundabouts and look to the left as well.
Its a special place for driving , some say spiritual

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FormulaNova said..>>>What's the story with people and roundabouts in WA? One thing that bugs me is that people here seem to indicate their exit way before they should and you never know if they mean 'that' exit or the one after. Was there some big TV ad about roundabouts or something as I feel that in NSW almost no one bothers to indicate (left) when leaving roundabouts, they just exit.

The first few times I was surprised that the other car exited after when I thought they would, but now I am forewarned.

There's been some confusing messages here. first we're told not to indicate going in, only indicate going out. then we're told to indicate going in if we're tuning right then left as well. Some people think they have to stop at a roundabout. Most people treat it as give way to the right. But I think the rule actually says, first to the roundabout has right of way, but I find it safer, not to push this rule as people coming towards the roundabout on your right are only thinking about what's on their left. So you can be stopped at the entry with a stream of traffic coming from your right, theoretically you have right of way, because you were there before them, but it's not wise to push that.

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decrepit said..

FormulaNova said..>>>What's the story with people and roundabouts in WA? One thing that bugs me is that people here seem to indicate their exit way before they should and you never know if they mean 'that' exit or the one after. Was there some big TV ad about roundabouts or something as I feel that in NSW almost no one bothers to indicate (left) when leaving roundabouts, they just exit.

The first few times I was surprised that the other car exited after when I thought they would, but now I am forewarned.

There's been some confusing messages here. first we're told not to indicate going in, only indicate going out. then we're told to indicate going in if we're tuning right then left as well. Some people think they have to stop at a roundabout. Most people treat it as give way to the right. But I think the rule actually says, first to the roundabout has right of way, but I find it safer, not to push this rule as people coming towards the roundabout on your right are only thinking about what's on their left. So you can be stopped at the entry with a stream of traffic coming from your right, theoretically you have right of way, because you were there before them, but it's not wise to push that.

Yeah, I know that it's whoever is on the roundabout first that has right of way, but man the number of people that have gotten angry at me because they think its whoever is on the right has right of way... I know I am in the right, but sometimes I just concede. Other times, usually when its one of those where the road I am on gets few chances, I do it as your supposed to.

There is this roundabout in Baldivis though that does my head in. It has a new lane created on the roundabout, after you have already entered it and cannot see it beforehand, and its for effectively doing a 180 turn, but you don't know its there until you are already past it. Normally you would just indicate right and leave at the correct exit, but they have created an orphan lane and you don't even know its there until its too late.

It also bugs me the amount of people that don't give way to both lanes on a roundabout. If you see someone giving way to both... it will be me!

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Carantoc said..

FormulaNova said..
..Are some people crazy?

Hey FN,

I don't wanna sound rude (well OK I couldn't give a ****e if I sound rude) but...

You've got 11,810 posts on these forums and you still ask that question ?!??!!!



pffffftt....even a child can see the answer. Do your own research. If you don't understand I am not here to explain it to you. Moron.

No problem Carantoc. I thought I mentioned this previously, but I am only new to these forums. Its probably against the rules, but I bought this logon from someone called Adam or Adrian or Andrew or something. I personally have only posted a dozen times or so. This guy, a house designer or something said that it was only used a few times to wind up conspiracy people, so it was a good buy.

As for the other comment. I am not a Mormon. I do have letters here from the local JWs asking me to join them but I am not one of those either.

Yes its funny you say that about roundabouts. There was a show on SBS a few years back, was all a bit tongue in cheek, to prove once and for all who are the better drivers young or old.
They had the 50 and overs V's the 25 and unders. The put both groups through the modern practical exam and driving test.
All 5 of the 50 and overs failed.
They showed the instructor lecturing one of the 55yr old telling him you didnt indicate once on any roundabouts and swerved between both lanes when going around it?? The old guy answered with " well they didnt have roundabouts when I learned to drive, so how would I know what to do"
There was talk awhile ago about once people get to around that age they should sit a quick driving test each year to not only refresh them on the road rules, but to also test reaction times and eye sight as they both can start to diminish at that age and most dont realize its happened.
Pretty good idea really, I'd be happy to do it when Im over that age, just for my own peace of mind.

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lotofwind said..
There was talk awhile ago about once people get to around that age they should sit a quick driving test each year to not only refresh them on the road rules, but to also test reaction times and eye sight as they both can start to diminish at that age and most dont realize its happened.
Pretty good idea really, I'd be happy to do it when Im over that age, just for my own peace of mind.

I believe they do in Germany . Not sure at what age . I also believe it's free unless you fail , then you have to pay to re do your licence .
Good idea . Not at 50 , ( cos I'm scared I'd fail ) , 70 ???
Remember most bad crashes are under 25.

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Imax1 said..

lotofwind said..
There was talk awhile ago about once people get to around that age they should sit a quick driving test each year to not only refresh them on the road rules, but to also test reaction times and eye sight as they both can start to diminish at that age and most dont realize its happened.
Pretty good idea really, I'd be happy to do it when Im over that age, just for my own peace of mind.

I believe they do in Germany . Not sure at what age . I also believe it's free unless you fail , then you have to pay to re do your licence .
Good idea . Not at 50 , ( cos I'm scared I'd fail ) , 70 ???
Remember most bad crashes are under 25.

Yeah true for the under 25's, but you cant die at that age.

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Imax1 said..>>>> Good idea . Not at 50 , ( cos I'm scared I'd fail ) , 70 ???
Remember most bad crashes are under 25.

Not at 70 either, maybe over 80, perhaps 90. But I think that's already the case in WA

I know people that I would be afraid to drive with them when they were young and I am sure they are no better as they get older.

I still remember my friend from high school that asked me to give him driving lessons. He would never indicate and would always tell me "I was going to" which confused the heck out of me. He also used to cut right across corners when turning right. Not indicating of course.

It made sense when I saw that that was exactly the way both his parents drove. My theory these days is that you pick up driving styles from your parents or whoever you see driving when you are young. The rest probably doesn't matter.

^^^
Id go with that.

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FormulaNova said..

Imax1 said..
I do have some concerns with some safety features . For example , side mirror blind spot alarms . Good if your goofing off , but it will train you to not turning your head properly before changing lanes. One of the first rules when learning to drive .

I think they need to add a feature to these. I have found people that seem to want to sit in my right hand 'blind-spot' and just sit there. I speed up, they sit there. I slow down, they sit there. I suspect they do this because they want someone else to watch the speedo and somehow they think sitting back there is safe??

Maybe an alarm that says 'hey you idiot, don't sit there'?

Most surprisingly, I had a motorbike do this. Are some people crazy?

Welcome to WA . I think they do it to antagonise the living $#!t out of you .

I must say I like the push button start though. Its handy to leave keys in your pocket.

Another skill that will be lost though, using the bottle opener on your beer whilst its hanging off the key set in the ignition.
Now the bottle opener is easy to get to in the centre console where I chuck the keys

Was really glad of excellent brakes an hour ago! Saw a SUV approach and intersection ahead on my left, it slowed right down at the intersection. Then pulled out right in front of me, luckily I was only doing the 50kmh speed limit. Managed to stop about a meter away from it. I think the driver only looked left not right!

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Mark _australia said..
I must say I like the push button start though. Its handy to leave keys in your pocket.

Another skill that will be lost though, using the bottle opener on your beer whilst its hanging off the key set in the ignition.
Now the bottle opener is easy to get to in the centre console where I chuck the keys

The Elgrands have a keyless start fob. You leave the fob in your pocket or wherever and turn the normal ignition switch. You can also take the key out of the fob and use it as a regular key with transponder in it. I never thought I would like this feature and initially looked for a van without it, but I have to admit I like it now. To open the van just press the button on the door. Turn the ignition without getting the key out of your pocket. Pretty good for a 2003 model car.

They must have thought the system through too. If you are in the van you can lock it with the remote (good for camping). If you leave the key in the van you can't lock it from outside. The only issue is that in theory you could go for a drive, get out of the car, lose the key, get back in and continue on without noticing you lost it until you start it next time. Hardly likely though.