Sharks?

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Created by

southace > 9 months ago, 18 Apr 2017

bearbusa

QLD

295 posts

8 May 2017 3:07pm

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Bara said..

bearbusa said..

Adriano said..

Bara said..

Adriano said..

jbshack said..Not sure i get your point..Don't like the risk, stay out of the water.

Bara said..

jbshack said..

Bara said..

jbshack said..

ThinkaBowtit said..
^^ The low number of attacks (until recently) indicate nets and drum lines have worked well for NSW and Queensland for a long time. It is now that shark numbers are increasing that the limited culling by those methods is starting to reveal inadequacies. For the record, I'm not going to stop arguing culling, because some people just don't get it, and never will.

Catch rates in nets and drum lines have never been lower, if your idea of extra numbers, then we would also be seeing increased catches, but thats not the case, so that simply shows how incorrect your excuse is..

Id just stay out of the water if their is so many, their's a new pool coming for people who don't want to except the risk..

SO JB culling doesnt work in your opinion. Do you accept something has to be done by WA government to protect its citizens in the water?

If so what is it?

Just to be clear, its not my opinion that culling doesn't work. Its all the marine scientists. The brains trust that look into these things, the countries who have tried culling sharks for better protection that are all saying it doesn't work. Theres your first problem, if you don't want to take professional advice on the matter, nothing i share could be of interest.

I personally support making ourselves safer in that wild environment. SO many different options like

Eco nets Safe swimming enclosures
Electronic devices, like Rpela or shark shield,
Maybe more research into strips and colours, (but i won't hold my breath on that one)
Better beach warnings and spotters. Even helicopters to have better more clear directions available. Like Red light get the f--k out.
I think tagging has its place, but more transparency needs to be the general public.
Beach first aid kits and first aid training for surfers.
Even simple issues like beach locations and maybe the chopper could carry blood supply.

If those issues above had been implicated then

Doreen would have been wearing a shark shield and science says she would have had a 90% chance of deterring the attack.
Ben, if the ambulance hadn't got lost, or the helicopter had blood or even if the beach had warning signs up saying sharks had been sighted earlier, then things would be different.
If the young girl in Esperance had of had a Rpela fitted to her board, well, or even if beach signs had been erected stating sharks had been sighted for two days before hand. Maybe a different result.

Things can change, water safety can be improved, will we make it 100% safe to surf, no, i doubt that will ever happen, but if we want to just concentrate on vengeance and not science, then i would not expect too much to change.

Anyway I'm of for a surf, id avoid the water anyone who thinks sharks need culling..Its clearly just not safe..

Also in the cheap seats where you are surfing JB.

Not sure i get your point..Don't like the risk, stay out of the water.

Exactly. Surfing is not compulsory.

Killing protected species just to make recreation in a habitat not even remotely human is selfish.

Ahh the troll is back doing his thing. Sad existence you have there

Since when is expressing an opinion trolling?

Stop acting like you have the moral authority. You have no right.

The only thing going on is you don't like my opinion.

Try and deal with it please.

Having been in the water for over 45 years now both on the east coast and the west coast i have seen my share of sharks with a few close calls, my kids surf my grand kids will surf , the shark population is increasing due to other species like whales recovering .great but we all have the right to be safer in the water , so if it means taking out a few of the threatening killers ,so be it, we lock up our killers and pedophiles whom threaten us , and most would agree that the death penalty for some , no different

If your not a surfer or sup or paddle boarder .what the F are you doing on this forum , yes you have aright to your opinion
just express what affects you and stay out of areas that dont

Well said fully agree but you clearly dont know this Adriano/Bono troll. Hes got an "opinion" on everything under the sun with the help of google. While he sticks to politics I couldnt care less but when he jumps on a thread like this just to get reactions its going to far.

Bara,

As you said yes, i have been on this site for many years and very rarely get drawn in to things

This subject is so important to all of us water users and a solution's must be found , options from people that dont even get in the water, it gets my goat up , so F them as they are like so often polies we have at the moment only interested in whats best for them in there own little cocoons but we keep voting them in WTF ,again F them

i am passionate about the ocean and all it has to offer including the sharks , but there is a line that must be taken to protect both them and us

Adriano

11206 posts

8 May 2017 3:09pm

Gee quite a few angry people here.....a lot of f this and f that and f them and WTF and effing blah blah.

No respect for people who just mouth off and tell others to f off. Doesn't matter what your opinion.

Take a big breath and step back..we're talking about recreation out of our habitat - in the ocean, not war and peace.

bearbusa

QLD

295 posts

8 May 2017 5:45pm

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Adriano said..
Gee quite a few angry people here.....a lot of f this and f that and f them and WTF and effing blah blah.

No respect for people who just mouth off and tell others to f off. Doesn't matter what your opinion.

Take a big breath and step back..we're talking about recreation out of our habitat - in the ocean, not war and peace.

Not angry people just passionate of their past time and their safety and how things have changed regarding the amount of shark attacks over the last few years

You my friend have no idea , we wonder do you ever venture into the water other than a shower.

And Respect from you ,who gives a FFFFFFFFFFFF

jbshack

6913 posts

8 May 2017 4:29pm

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bearbusa said..

The problem is their are people who do enter the water and are just as passionate about looking after our waters and our sport. But people like yourself are not interested in presenting any facts, just anger and personal abuse calling people out, just because they have a different idea then yours..

Your idea to just kill sharks, when you clearly have no interest in getting or listening to scientific opinion, no interest in options that may help in water safety, other than killing.

As for your comment about not entering the water not having a say. Thats just simply stupid and a tactic just trying to deflect peoples opinions against culling, as it may drown out your shouting..

Tequila !

1028 posts

8 May 2017 5:16pm

Thanks to the hugging shark crew here we are in the only place in the world where there is a perverse general sense by ''people'' to feel more sorry for sharks than beach goes who get eaten by half or die.
From skilled waterman to kids swimming at the beach...we are into their territory as you say so we shall be eaten if they wish.

Both government and ECO ''experts'' should make official into their position to the subject to potential international tourists and local populace. Please make it a disclaimer in the entry visitor cards you need to fill at the airport passport check.

I get nudged frequently by friends from overseas who surf, windsurf, kitesurf or dive asking me if I would recommend them to come over to Australia for a holiday involving those activities.

Usually my suggestions/recommendations are:
-Sharks here are the biggest risk, this is their country and a large group of the population and media will protect them (the sharks, not you). You might end up in hospital if lucky less a few main limbs and have to hear some ''expert'' say (oh it was just your limbs, you see you enter their territory..blah blah).

-If for variety come, however I would rather go to Hawaii (any island) or Canaries, Maldives, dive in the Caribbean etc for a similar budget better than becoming shark bait/statistic down here. Attacks can happen in those places, however common sense hasn't gone through the window yet like it seems our case.

bearbusa

QLD

295 posts

8 May 2017 7:21pm

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jbshack said..

bearbusa said..

Fine for people to have passion about the oceans i support that and have never said not to , but dont let passion be disguised at what is the best for all concerned and what concerns me and many others is how we can fix the problem of losing loved ones in the water.

Facts are that there are more shark attacks now than ever and as most marine scientist will say its because of whale recovery and us humans over fishing possibly and yes more people in the water

No personal abuse other than what is i said about the politician s in this country (most of us would agree with that)and the fact that i dont care about respect from someone that i dont even know or care to (well that was more like my own personal take on that person and am happy to take it out of this post ) , like you and Adriano have said every one can have an opinion , no different regarding a person not every one sees eye to eye , didn't abuse him just said i dont give a F about his respect

Fact i never said anything about culling i have just reiterated what 95% of this forum want and that is protection from the predators that frequent the beaches chasing there natural food and mistakenly taking human life and the facts are something has to change

So before you respond to someone please read carefully in the future

jbshack

6913 posts

8 May 2017 6:04pm

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novetti said..
Thanks to the hugging shark crew here we are in the only place in the world where there is a perverse general sense by ''people'' to feel more sorry for sharks than beach goes who get eaten by half or die.
From skilled waterman to kids swimming at the beach...we are into their territory as you say so we shall be eaten if they wish.

Both government and ECO ''experts'' should make official into their position to the subject to potential international tourists and local populace. Please make it a disclaimer in the entry visitor cards you need to fill at the airport passport check.

I get nudged frequently by friends from overseas who surf, windsurf, kitesurf or dive asking me if I would recommend them to come over to Australia for a holiday involving those activities.

Usually my suggestions/recommendations are:
-Sharks here are the biggest risk, this is their country and a large group of the population and media will protect them (the sharks, not you). You might end up in hospital if lucky less a few main limbs and have to hear some ''expert'' say (oh it was just your limbs, you see you enter their territory..blah blah).

-If for variety come, however I would rather go to Hawaii (any island) or Canaries, Maldives, dive in the Caribbean etc for a similar budget better than becoming shark bait/statistic down here. Attacks can happen in those places, however common sense hasn't gone through the window yet like it seems our case.

My point exactly. Its got nothing to do with shark hugging or shark loving. The fact is that places through out the world have culled sharks and made the problem worse. I don't support culling because firstly i don't believe it will work for water safety and secondly theirs precedents it will actually make the situation of shark attack even worse than what we have.

Surfing is not a safe sport, a guy drowned on Sat and it didn't raise an eye lid. If that death had been a shark these pages and the papers would be burning hot with pro cullers demanding life is precious.

I trust people like Novelty you should steer clear of the water until such a time the waters are declared safe, to your standards.

jbshack

6913 posts

8 May 2017 6:06pm

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bearbusa said..

jbshack said..

bearbusa said..

Fine for people to have passion about the oceans i support that and have never said not to , but dont let passion be disguised at what is the best for all concerned and what concerns me and many others is how we can fix the problem of losing loved ones in the water.

Facts are that there are more shark attacks now than ever and as most marine scientist will say its because of whale recovery and us humans over fishing possibly and yes more people in the water

No personal abuse other than what is i said about the politician s in this country (most of us would agree with that)and the fact that i dont care about respect from someone that i dont even know or care to (well that was more like my own personal take on that person and am happy to take it out of this post ) , like you and Adriano have said every one can have an opinion , no different regarding a person not every one sees eye to eye , didn't abuse him just said i dont give a F about his respect

Fact i never said anything about culling i have just reiterated what 95% of this forum want and that is protection from the predators that frequent the beaches chasing there natural food and mistakenly taking human life and the facts are something has to change

So before you respond to someone please read carefully in the future

Can you provide some examples of this

I've not read of any Marine biologist saying shark numbers are up because whale numbers have increased but am happy to be proven wrong.

Adriano

11206 posts

8 May 2017 6:10pm

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bearbusa said..

"We wonder" do we?

If you must know, I've windsurfed for 30 years and been into water sports since I was able to swim. I practically grew up in the ocean.

In any case, it's beside the point.

As for gaining my respect, telling people to f off and get effed, hardly does much for your cause.

gavnwend

1373 posts

8 May 2017 6:31pm

Im not saying another word l'm out of this discussion.sharks are so unpredictable.& probably smarter then what we think.wolves of the sea

ThinkaBowtit

1134 posts

8 May 2017 6:51pm

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Adriano said..

I practically grew up in the ocean.
As for gaining my respect, telling people to f off and get effed, hardly does much for your cause.

You grew up in an ocean in which shark culling was standard and regular practice.
No one I've seen has told you to f off or get effed. Perhaps you're a mind reader?

ThinkaBowtit

1134 posts

8 May 2017 6:56pm

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jbshack said..

The fact is that places through out the world have culled sharks and made the problem worse.

Surfing is not a safe sport, a guy drowned on Sat and it didn't raise an eye lid.

Facts provided by Huffington Post? Facts about the drowning you are chasing in a forum, hoping someone knows something?
Any mind readers out there...?

Rupert

TAS

2967 posts

8 May 2017 9:26pm

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Adriano said..

bearbusa said..

Where, was your local beach netted and had set lines? and when was the last spate of attacks in Port Philip Bay?

Ian K

4164 posts

8 May 2017 7:31pm

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ThinkaBowtit said..

Adriano said..

I practically grew up in the ocean.

You grew up in an ocean in which shark culling was standard and regular practice.

You seem to be implying that there's more risk in WA?

www.australiangeographic.com.au/topics/science-environment/2015/07/shark-attacks-in-australia-a-timeline/

ThinkaBowtit

1134 posts

8 May 2017 7:39pm

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Ian K said..

ThinkaBowtit said..

Adriano said..

I practically grew up in the ocean.

You grew up in an ocean in which shark culling was standard and regular practice.

You seem to be implying that there's more risk in WA?
www.australiangeographic.com.au/topics/science-environment/2015/07/shark-attacks-in-australia-a-timeline/

No I'm not, I'm saying no matter where in Aus you were 40 years ago, sharks were being culled regularly. It's not a competition Ian. That timeline missed Dave Weir, WA, 1995.

busterwa

3782 posts

8 May 2017 7:46pm

bearbusa

QLD

295 posts

8 May 2017 9:49pm

.its sad to respond to these emails targeting people with different so called opinions
after more than 48 years of surfing and hopefully many to come to have to justify making the water safe for my kids and their grandkids because some people believe that we should just either not go into to the water or just put up with the inherent risk and save the species , they are not in danger any more , we are in the water , most of these so called opioniated person have never ventured outside there comfort zone and have ever lost family member or friend this way
the tourist industry sells diving with shark diving with crocks ,this should be banned as it inheriitly attracts these top line predators to associate food with humans all for the sake of the $
yes let's not cull any species but we have the right to eneter the water without being eatin , certain scientific solutions that the good to shoes want to enfotprec don't work ,fact

Last thing I will post on this ,let's make the water safe for all of us water users , be it with technology or old ways , this must be achieved for all us humans that are true water users ???? and our children

Ian K

4164 posts

8 May 2017 7:53pm

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ThinkaBowtit said..

Ian K said..

ThinkaBowtit said..

Adriano said..

I practically grew up in the ocean.

You grew up in an ocean in which shark culling was standard and regular practice.

You seem to be implying that there's more risk in WA?
www.australiangeographic.com.au/topics/science-environment/2015/07/shark-attacks-in-australia-a-timeline/

No I'm not, I'm saying no matter where in Aus you were 40 years ago, sharks were being culled regularly. It's not a competition Ian. That timeline missed Dave Weir, WA, 1995.

It's not a competition no, but for many folks, and I'll admit to a bit of it, the perceived danger of sharks adds a bit of spice to the ocean experience.

What a boring sport skydiving would be if a chute didn't get tangled every now and then.

king of the point

1836 posts

9 May 2017 12:32am

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Adriano said..

king of the point said..

My mate Hammo recieved a bravery medal and award from the WA Premier yesterday .Hammo was surfing at falconer WA with several others when Ben Giring was attacked by a great white Hammo and others brought him back to the beach through the break and helped administer first aid, retreaved half the surfboard leg rope and attched leg that had been taken off just below the hip ,
Enough said / just like rabbits foxes and any other animal that is effecting human interaction in this case death whilst in the ocean diving surfing swimming eviedenced with the current frequency rate of attacks sightings from commercial / proffecional and public boaties there is an over population that requires a simple reduction in large shark numbers to reduce death and sighting frequencies along the WA coast / if you can not except it and what ever your argument is its not logical.

Well done Hammo. Very brave.

Rabbits an foxes are introduced pests.

Great Whites are native protected species.

The ocean is their habitat.

We are land creatures recreating in the shark's habitat.

Enough said.

Left it wide open for you to use rabbits and foxes as introduced spicies very quick /as is legislation to call the great white a native protected spicies ( sorry dont no the date we made this up but when numbers where believed to be down and no one was seeing then or being attacked ) and i agree ive never seen a great white in the desert / respect the fact people are being attacked and killed / so you would like to ban all ocean activites where we entre the ocean ,along the WA coastline ? to protect public safety like you have never swum in the ocean ? and if you have the shark picked the wrong person / as for shark victims saying its ok dont react is rediculous like letting a dog maul you and saying that dogs ok / these great whites are the smartest creature if you think this behaviour is random and not calculated i think your under estimating there mind and smartness to return for repeat performances year in year out / also the argument reducing numbers will no decrease attacks is true we have not culled enough / whats also intresting is we have proffecional fisherman with year and years of experience knowelage and people like you would not even spend an hour a week swiming diving surfing giving your stupid opinion / its a cull not an eradication to extinction like your jumping up and down about seriously get over it .

Adriano

11206 posts

9 May 2017 5:32am

Nah, culling is just bad politics from a losing side.

Great Whites swim around the globe.

Kill a few and more will swim in.

As jbshack has said, use some science and research and your political campaign may yet succeed.

kiteflo

132 posts

9 May 2017 5:44am

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I'm not for a cull but all you are doing is trying to push other peoples buttons. No real contribution from you. That's why you have been called a Troll many times.

Adriano

11206 posts

9 May 2017 5:53am

Well the button has to be there for it to be pushed. All I can say is, deactivate the button.

I agree with jbshack.

Come up with a scientific and well researched position, and I may yet change my mind.

Until then, my opinion is that culling doesn't really achieve what some people claim it does when a coastline is thousands of kilometres long.

It's just as valid as others opinion that culling does work - in the absence of a scientific context.

goofy

162 posts

9 May 2017 6:20am

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Adriano said..
Well the button has to be there for it to be pushed. All I can say is, deactivate the button.

I agree with jbshack.

Come up with a scientific and well researched position, and I may yet change my mind.

Until then, my opinion is that culling doesn't really achieve what some people claim it does when a coastline is thousands of kilometres long.

It's just as valid as others opinion that culling does work - in the absence of a scientific context.

Fact - Significantly less attacks on netted and drummed beaches in Oz compared to non protected beaches

Razzonater

2224 posts

9 May 2017 6:48am

Science is cool

www.theaustralian.com.au/nocookies?a=A.flavipes

ThinkaBowtit

1134 posts

9 May 2017 8:17am

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Adriano said..
Great Whites swim around the globe.
Kill a few and more will swim in.

Finally we agree. Killing a few is pointless. Like taking on average less than one shark a week in Reunion over 5 years has proved to be pointless. People like you have to stop thinking of them as sea gods and remember they are fish.

azymuth

2166 posts

9 May 2017 8:25am

Why does WA often think it can do things better than everyone else and inaction is often the result.

I grew up in Durban where it was illegal to swim at beaches that were not netted - which wasn't as problem as most were.

Natal Sharks Board have been netting/drum lining a long time - kept the public safe and there are a lot of sharks on that coastline - www.shark.co.za/

Nobody want to see animals mistreated - but every shark caught on a drumline or in a net has to lessen the risk to the public and saves a lot of other animals that would otherwise have been that sharks dinner.

DARTH

3028 posts

9 May 2017 8:30am

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azymuth said..
Why does WA often think it can do things better than everyone else and inaction is often the result.

I grew up in Durban where it was illegal to swim at beaches that were not netted - which wasn't as problem as most were.

Natal Parks Board have been netting/drum lining a long time- kept the public safe and there are a lot of sharks on that coastline - www.shark.co.za/

Nobody want to see animals mistreated - but every shark caught on a drumline has to lessen the risk to the public and saves a lot of other animals that would otherwise have been that sharks dinner.

There is a difference between nets and drumlines, and drumlines don't attract GWS as we have seen.

Bara

647 posts

9 May 2017 9:03am

Its no coincidence that 2 of the three shark huggers on this thread are windsurfers and in safe waters re sharks at that. One having benefited from decades of preventative measures in NSW. There has not been a single shark fatality while windsurfing and they know it. Ian your spicy shark risk you reckon you love isnt chili its paprika mate gimme a break!

These guys are coming from a particularly selfish point of view since they are safe in the water. It takes a pretty conceited view of the world to tell others in danger what to do from this perspective. Even more so to attempt to insult them as Adriano has done. It really is low.

The other is a surfer in JB who while he isnt in a particularly dangerous location does take a risk albeit reduced. We differ on the solution but I hope we agree that something must be done and I respect where hes coming from until he says just stay out of the water. Thats like saying give up breathing to a surfer. I wish I had his faith in the electronic deterrents but he is ignoring the science on this when he quotes 90% success rate with great whites. What ever gets you wet eh. Couldnt find the independent rpela study they have been saying for couple of years is coming. Wonder why?

JB is also ignoring the science when he says culling doenst work is a fact. Culling as defined as a managed reduction of numbers of dangerous predators (not a species wipe out as the greenies froth over) has worked for centuries including with GWs until they were protected. Now we are dealing with the consequence of that benefit of the doubt decision back in the 80s.

Doing nothing is not an option and currently that is where WA government is positioned having been wedged politically and thats not good enough morally, ethically or even legally.

Bara

647 posts

9 May 2017 9:05am

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DARTH said..

There is a difference between nets and drumlines, and drumlines don't attract GWS as we have seen.

Not true - drum lines regularly catch great whites when deployed.

azymuth

2166 posts

9 May 2017 9:19am

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Bara said..
Its no coincidence that 2 of the three shark huggers on this thread are windsurfers and in safe waters re sharks at that. One having benefited from decades of preventative measures in NSW. There has not been a single shark fatality while windsurfing and they know it. Ian your spicy shark risk you reckon you love isnt chili its paprika mate gimme a break!

These guys are coming from a particularly selfish point of view since they are safe in the water. It takes a pretty conceited view of the world to tell others in danger what to do from this perspective. Even more so to attempt to insult them as Adriano has done. It really is low.

The other is a surfer in JB who while he isnt in a particularly dangerous location does take a risk albeit reduced. We differ on the solution but I hope we agree that something must be done and I respect where hes coming from until he says just stay out of the water. Thats like saying give up breathing to a surfer. I wish I had his faith in the electronic deterrents but he is ignoring the science on this when he quotes 90% success rate with great whites. What ever gets you wet eh. Couldnt find the independent rpela study they have been saying for couple of years is coming. Wonder why?

JB is also ignoring the science when he says culling doenst work is a fact. Culling as defined as a managed reduction of numbers of dangerous predators (not a species wipe out as the greenies froth over) has worked for centuries including with GWs until they were protected. Now we are dealing with the consequence of that benefit of the doubt decision back in the 80s.

Doing nothing is not an option and currently that is where WA government is positioned having been wedged politically and thats not good enough morally, ethically or even legally.

Well said

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Sharks?

bearbusa

Adriano

bearbusa

jbshack

Tequila !

bearbusa

jbshack

jbshack

Adriano

gavnwend

ThinkaBowtit

ThinkaBowtit

Rupert

Ian K

ThinkaBowtit

busterwa

bearbusa

Ian K

king of the point

Adriano

kiteflo

Adriano

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Razzonater

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