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Adriano said..

drewpweiner said..

Adriano said..
There is zero evidence-based analysis that culling sharks has any impact on numbers of shark attacks.

Yes because,

It's a given. Less sharks will = less likely a chance of attack. Scientists study correlations that have the possibility of being false and set out to prove or disprove it. It doesn't bother with truisms, there is no need for a study. It is like saying "There is zero evidence-based analysis that destroying half the world's population of cars has any impact on numbers of drivers driving cars." Of course there will be less drivers!

Well if it's a given, show us the peer reviewed scientific analysis. It should be a pushover.

If you listen to what i just said, you will find that i was saying you don't need scientific analysis for truisms, and then you came back at me and said "well wheres the scientific evidence", lol.

explain to me why we ONLY need peer-reviewed scientific analysis to prove to us if you put TNT in your house and start a fire in it that it will explode... or that if you put your hand in liquid nitrogen that it will freeze your hand... or that if you dump acid on a strawberry field that it will destroy everything... YOU DON'T NEED TOO! It's self-evident. We arrive at these things by logical inferences.

Fark mate, pretty soon you will be needing peer-reviewed scientific literature just to find out where to put your johnson when you're in bed with your wife!

The big picture here is the human picture. We place to high the concerns of people who have little to do with the ocean. There are a lot of people ie government who make decisions based on alliances with parties like the greens that have a blanket rule when it comes to culls and controls.

Last week we had a whale carcus of mindarie and another of Fremantle and sharks everywhere. I kept my son out of the water for a few days until he became a coiled spring and I had to let him surf. He has in built shark deterrent in his board. At about 1400 Friday I have his mum calling in a panic because a surfer has been bruised up by a big shark near where he surfs and she can't get hold of him. He was all good been surfing all day with no problems. The week before we had our surf cut short because the beach was closed due to large shark in the area.

Do do we all stop using the beach and play football or do we manage the problem around where we live. No need to destroy An entire shark population just manage it around where we live.

My friend was in Bali last week. He spoke to many touros that said they would love to come to wa but the sharks are to scarey. We are trying to sell our city as a tourist destination with our beaches being an attraction but the water is filled with sharks.

Its not like a situation where if you drink the water you might get sick. It s very scarey for a lot of tourist. And rightly so.

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JESUSGUS said..
No need to destroy An entire shark population just manage it around where we live.

This thread doesn't seem to (or doesn't want to) register that GW sharks are nomadic. A good percentage of the total GWS population will pass by your beach at some stage during their 70 year lifetime. To significantly reduce the number of sharks passing by the beach where you live would require a significant reduction of the total population.

www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa/shark-migration-great-white-shark-28-travels-from-nsw-to-wa-ng-b380f2a2d907e4d617f3a11a2806acd2

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_white_shark

Gulp...wikipedia used as a news source

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Ian K said...
This thread doesn't seem to (or doesn't want to) register that GW sharks are nomadic. A good percentage of the total GWS population will pass by your beach at some stage during their 70 year lifetime. To significantly reduce the number of sharks passing by the beach where you live would require a significant reduction of the total population.

Yes, which is exactly what happened during the couple of centuries of whaling. And the oceans and world survived it.
My posts focus on WA because that's where I am, but can mostly be applied to anywhere white sharks frequent.

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chrispy said..
Gulp...wikipedia used as a news source

Wikipedia may have its faults but it's still streets ahead of whatever you might read here

One thing the huggers must think is the sharks who were chomping up Mrs whale's for the last two weeks must been from the area. They have great sense of smell however can't know from more than a few km's or a dozen kms there is a carcass around.

They are much closer than you would like to think. With protected species status they might pop in for a brew in your favorite pub one day...

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JESUSGUS said..
The big picture here is the human picture. We place to high the concerns of people who have little to do with the ocean. There are a lot of people ie government who make decisions based on alliances with parties like the greens that have a blanket rule when it comes to culls and controls.

Last week we had a whale carcus of mindarie and another of Fremantle and sharks everywhere. I kept my son out of the water for a few days until he became a coiled spring and I had to let him surf. He has in built shark deterrent in his board. At about 1400 Friday I have his mum calling in a panic because a surfer has been bruised up by a big shark near where he surfs and she can't get hold of him. He was all good been surfing all day with no problems. The week before we had our surf cut short because the beach was closed due to large shark in the area.

Do do we all stop using the beach and play football or do we manage the problem around where we live. No need to destroy An entire shark population just manage it around where we live.

My friend was in Bali last week. He spoke to many touros that said they would love to come to wa but the sharks are to scarey. We are trying to sell our city as a tourist destination with our beaches being an attraction but the water is filled with sharks.

Its not like a situation where if you drink the water you might get sick. It s very scarey for a lot of tourist. And rightly so.

The whale of Mindarie was the same as the one of Freo. The large great white was suggested by the media to have been 6 m long. Eventually it was caught by fisheries, tagged and measured at 3.8 m long..

I'd suggest give up surfing and stick with football, no one has ever been injured playing football

You need not look further than the statistics of shark attacks since GW sharks were protected in 1998. Compare the 20 years prior to the 20 years past & also consider the frequency of shark sightings. This consideration is often argued that there are more surfers in the water now compared to the past, however I would argue that a few surfers spot & report sharks almost as well as a greater number & that some surfers groups will not report sightings due to either it being just another regular sighting or not wanting bring attention to a surf spot. Check out the stats, its the usual places & I can assure you most sightings are not reported...point being there are plenty of sharks & no longer any need to protect them from being removed from popular recreational areas. Yes they are highly nomadic & yes they were highly culled even past the closure of the Albany Whaling station. Many a sharks jaws were hung proudly on a wall procured past 1978 before GW protection in 1998.

The problem is with the sudden global protection of great whites & the onset of hipster greeny shark huggery brought about by documentaries elementing these glorified fish to savours of the ocean, essentially cleansing the water for future generations coz their ferocious appetite to eat anything & everything in their way is seen to be cleaning the ocean.

What say we consider human life important. What say we remove great whites over a certain size that are hanging around posing a threat within recreational areas & at the same time consider placing fishing restrictions on other fish that don't have a tendency of removing an arm or a leg with one bite. Leading to possible death due to blood loss.

I'm sure sharks are not the only fish that feed off whale carcasses, why not look at restrictions on fish other than GW and while we're at it since we have protected whales. Should we not consider whales for a possible export to places like Japan & China now that they have made a come back, do they need protecting from an eco pov. I think not.

Maybe we should consider restrictions rather than blanket bans...maybe then we might get a better eco balance & less loss of human life. I'm not for culling, just a better balance, coz right now we obviously have it wrong.

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Ian K said..

chrispy said..
Gulp...wikipedia used as a news source

Wikipedia may have its faults but it's still streets ahead of whatever you might read here

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MickPC said..
You need not look further than the statistics of shark attacks since GW sharks were protected in 1998. Compare the 20 years prior to the 20 years past & also consider the frequency of shark sightings. This consideration is often argued that there are more surfers in the water now compared to the past, however I would argue that a few surfers spot & report sharks almost as well as a greater number & that some surfers groups will not report sightings due to either it being just another regular sighting or not wanting bring attention to a surf spot. Check out the stats, its the usual places & I can assure you most sightings are not reported...point being there are plenty of sharks & no longer any need to protect them from being removed from popular recreational areas. Yes they are highly nomadic & yes they were highly culled even past the closure of the Albany Whaling station. Many a sharks jaws were hung proudly on a wall procured past 1978 before GW protection in 1998.

The problem is with the sudden global protection of great whites & the onset of hipster greeny shark huggery brought about by documentaries elementing these glorified fish to savours of the ocean, essentially cleansing the water for future generations coz their ferocious appetite to eat anything & everything in their way is seen to be cleaning the ocean.

What say we consider human life important. What say we remove great whites over a certain size that are hanging around posing a threat within recreational areas & at the same time consider placing fishing restrictions on other fish that don't have a tendency of removing an arm or a leg with one bite. Leading to possible death due to blood loss.

I'm sure sharks are not the only fish that feed off whale carcasses, why not look at restrictions on fish other than GW and while we're at it since we have protected whales. Should we not consider whales for a possible export to places like Japan & China now that they have made a come back, do they need protecting from an eco pov. I think not.

Maybe we should consider restrictions rather than blanket bans...maybe then we might get a better eco balance & less loss of human life. I'm not for culling, just a better balance, coz right now we obviously have it wrong.

If sharks really wanted to eat humans, if great white numbers have risen that high to be out of control, then life in the ocean for surfers would be very different.

Look at what just happened, a dead whale is sitting on rocks getting eaten by large great whites, tigers and a few hundred meters away, surfers out at Cables artificial reef. Within maybe 5 minutes swim..Yet not a single attack.

People just need to take some responsibility for their own actions, these days for many, that cant except the reality, that means taking up another sport IMHO..

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jbshack said..

MickPC said..
You need not look further than the statistics of shark attacks since GW sharks were protected in 1998. Compare the 20 years prior to the 20 years past & also consider the frequency of shark sightings. This consideration is often argued that there are more surfers in the water now compared to the past, however I would argue that a few surfers spot & report sharks almost as well as a greater number & that some surfers groups will not report sightings due to either it being just another regular sighting or not wanting bring attention to a surf spot. Check out the stats, its the usual places & I can assure you most sightings are not reported...point being there are plenty of sharks & no longer any need to protect them from being removed from popular recreational areas. Yes they are highly nomadic & yes they were highly culled even past the closure of the Albany Whaling station. Many a sharks jaws were hung proudly on a wall procured past 1978 before GW protection in 1998.

The problem is with the sudden global protection of great whites & the onset of hipster greeny shark huggery brought about by documentaries elementing these glorified fish to savours of the ocean, essentially cleansing the water for future generations coz their ferocious appetite to eat anything & everything in their way is seen to be cleaning the ocean.

What say we consider human life important. What say we remove great whites over a certain size that are hanging around posing a threat within recreational areas & at the same time consider placing fishing restrictions on other fish that don't have a tendency of removing an arm or a leg with one bite. Leading to possible death due to blood loss.

I'm sure sharks are not the only fish that feed off whale carcasses, why not look at restrictions on fish other than GW and while we're at it since we have protected whales. Should we not consider whales for a possible export to places like Japan & China now that they have made a come back, do they need protecting from an eco pov. I think not.

Maybe we should consider restrictions rather than blanket bans...maybe then we might get a better eco balance & less loss of human life. I'm not for culling, just a better balance, coz right now we obviously have it wrong.

If sharks really wanted to eat humans, if great white numbers have risen that high to be out of control, then life in the ocean for surfers would be very different.

Look at what just happened, a dead whale is sitting on rocks getting eaten by large great whites, tigers and a few hundred meters away, surfers out at Cables artificial reef. Within maybe 5 minutes swim..Yet not a single attack.

People just need to take some responsibility for their own actions, these days for many, that cant except the reality, that means taking up another sport IMHO..

Couldn't have said it better myself JB.

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jbshack said..

MickPC said..
You need not look further than the statistics of shark attacks since GW sharks were protected in 1998. Compare the 20 years prior to the 20 years past & also consider the frequency of shark sightings. This consideration is often argued that there are more surfers in the water now compared to the past, however I would argue that a few surfers spot & report sharks almost as well as a greater number & that some surfers groups will not report sightings due to either it being just another regular sighting or not wanting bring attention to a surf spot. Check out the stats, its the usual places & I can assure you most sightings are not reported...point being there are plenty of sharks & no longer any need to protect them from being removed from popular recreational areas. Yes they are highly nomadic & yes they were highly culled even past the closure of the Albany Whaling station. Many a sharks jaws were hung proudly on a wall procured past 1978 before GW protection in 1998.

The problem is with the sudden global protection of great whites & the onset of hipster greeny shark huggery brought about by documentaries elementing these glorified fish to savours of the ocean, essentially cleansing the water for future generations coz their ferocious appetite to eat anything & everything in their way is seen to be cleaning the ocean.

What say we consider human life important. What say we remove great whites over a certain size that are hanging around posing a threat within recreational areas & at the same time consider placing fishing restrictions on other fish that don't have a tendency of removing an arm or a leg with one bite. Leading to possible death due to blood loss.

I'm sure sharks are not the only fish that feed off whale carcasses, why not look at restrictions on fish other than GW and while we're at it since we have protected whales. Should we not consider whales for a possible export to places like Japan & China now that they have made a come back, do they need protecting from an eco pov. I think not.

Maybe we should consider restrictions rather than blanket bans...maybe then we might get a better eco balance & less loss of human life. I'm not for culling, just a better balance, coz right now we obviously have it wrong.

If sharks really wanted to eat humans, if great white numbers have risen that high to be out of control, then life in the ocean for surfers would be very different.

Look at what just happened, a dead whale is sitting on rocks getting eaten by large great whites, tigers and a few hundred meters away, surfers out at Cables artificial reef. Within maybe 5 minutes swim..Yet not a single attack.

People just need to take some responsibility for their own actions, these days for many, that cant except the reality, that means taking up another sport IMHO..

Why would they want to eat a human when there is a mass of blubber/whale lying there that argument makes no sense jb, none at all, what feed gives off more scent??

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jbshack said...

If sharks really wanted to eat humans, if great white numbers have risen that high to be out of control, then life in the ocean for surfers would be very different.

Compare the past 10 years to the 20, 30, 40 years before that for surfers and divers. White shark numbers aren't out of control. Not yet. But you're living in la la land if you're not seeing the start of pretty ****ty trend for water users.

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ThinkaBowtit said..

jbshack said...

If sharks really wanted to eat humans, if great white numbers have risen that high to be out of control, then life in the ocean for surfers would be very different.

Compare the past 10 years to the 20, 30, 40 years before that for surfers and divers. White shark numbers aren't out of control. Not yet. But you're living in la la land if you're not seeing the start of pretty ****ty trend for water users.

Go back to your fish tank, I hope its a nice one

You guys should all go surfing,
Im not even going to give an opinion.
In the last three years on here we have had about 200 ten page shark threads.
Laurie should join them all together amd publish a book it would be a best seller.
Shark rantings of maniacs (myself included)
The title : shark rantings of maniacs
The blurb: An in depth review of the delusions of keyboard warriors about a huggable bag of teeth that keeps earing people and ruins western australias water activities.
Back page: contributers, greens , shark huggers, shark hunters, shark haters, and some which like to troll and are undecided.

Im ready for the hate

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Razzonater said..
You guys should all go surfing,
Im not even going to give an opinion.
In the last three years on here we have had about 200 ten page shark threads.
Laurie should join them all together amd publish a book it would be a best seller.
Shark rantings of maniacs (myself included)
The title : shark rantings of maniacs
The blurb: An in depth review of the delusions of keyboard warriors about a huggable bag of teeth that keeps earing people and ruins western australias water activities.
Back page: contributers, greens , shark huggers, shark hunters, shark haters, and some which like to troll and are undecided.

Im ready for the hate

You forgot to mention the un rational desire to try change a completely natural environment just for the pleasure of a few scared men dressed in all rubber

Less surfers, thanks to the sharks, thats my new mantra

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Ian K said..

JESUSGUS said..
No need to destroy An entire shark population just manage it around where we live.

This thread doesn't seem to (or doesn't want to) register that GW sharks are nomadic. A good percentage of the total GWS population will pass by your beach at some stage during their 70 year lifetime. To significantly reduce the number of sharks passing by the beach where you live would require a significant reduction of the total population.

www.perthnow.com.au/news/wa/shark-migration-great-white-shark-28-travels-from-nsw-to-wa-ng-b380f2a2d907e4d617f3a11a2806acd2

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_white_shark

But that would require peer reviewed science to demonstrate!

Oh hang on, no, that's just obvious! They migrate! Far out man - really - they migrate?

No, in truth that is just an inconvenient fact for the pro-shark killers.

Why does it matter that they migrate? More white sharks is still more white sharks.

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Ian K said..

chrispy said..
Gulp...wikipedia used as a news source

Wikipedia may have its faults but it's still streets ahead of whatever you might read here

Or (iR)RationalWiki for that matter, which is a site for crackpots.

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ThinkaBowtit said..
Why does it matter that they migrate? More white sharks is still more white sharks.

It matters because the point being that killing a few only partly reduces the risk for only part of the time for only part of the coast.

In NSW and QLD they kill, kill, kill but the sharks still kill. Migration perhaps? Well sharks don't swim around in a circle do they?

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Adriano said..

ThinkaBowtit said..
Why does it matter that they migrate? More white sharks is still more white sharks.

It matters because the point being that killing a few only partly reduces the risk for only part of the time for only part of the coast.

In NSW and QLD they kill, kill, kill but the sharks still kill. Migration perhaps? Well sharks don't swim around in a circle do they?

Really? How many GW's have they killed?
I thought they were protected.

That's right. Keep them protected I say.

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Zachery said..

jbshack said..

MickPC said..
You need not look further than the statistics of shark attacks since GW sharks were protected in 1998. Compare the 20 years prior to the 20 years past & also consider the frequency of shark sightings. This consideration is often argued that there are more surfers in the water now compared to the past, however I would argue that a few surfers spot & report sharks almost as well as a greater number & that some surfers groups will not report sightings due to either it being just another regular sighting or not wanting bring attention to a surf spot. Check out the stats, its the usual places & I can assure you most sightings are not reported...point being there are plenty of sharks & no longer any need to protect them from being removed from popular recreational areas. Yes they are highly nomadic & yes they were highly culled even past the closure of the Albany Whaling station. Many a sharks jaws were hung proudly on a wall procured past 1978 before GW protection in 1998.

The problem is with the sudden global protection of great whites & the onset of hipster greeny shark huggery brought about by documentaries elementing these glorified fish to savours of the ocean, essentially cleansing the water for future generations coz their ferocious appetite to eat anything & everything in their way is seen to be cleaning the ocean.

What say we consider human life important. What say we remove great whites over a certain size that are hanging around posing a threat within recreational areas & at the same time consider placing fishing restrictions on other fish that don't have a tendency of removing an arm or a leg with one bite. Leading to possible death due to blood loss.

I'm sure sharks are not the only fish that feed off whale carcasses, why not look at restrictions on fish other than GW and while we're at it since we have protected whales. Should we not consider whales for a possible export to places like Japan & China now that they have made a come back, do they need protecting from an eco pov. I think not.

Maybe we should consider restrictions rather than blanket bans...maybe then we might get a better eco balance & less loss of human life. I'm not for culling, just a better balance, coz right now we obviously have it wrong.

If sharks really wanted to eat humans, if great white numbers have risen that high to be out of control, then life in the ocean for surfers would be very different.

Look at what just happened, a dead whale is sitting on rocks getting eaten by large great whites, tigers and a few hundred meters away, surfers out at Cables artificial reef. Within maybe 5 minutes swim..Yet not a single attack.

People just need to take some responsibility for their own actions, these days for many, that cant except the reality, that means taking up another sport IMHO..

Why would they want to eat a human when there is a mass of blubber/whale lying there that argument makes no sense jb, none at all, what feed gives off more scent??

Zac if you had a clue on how sharks feed and interact with each other, you'd know that a whale carcass will attract sharks to the area, but that they won't all get to feed. The smaller ones will have to wait their turn and that could take some serious time. SO whilst the shark is hungry, swimming around wanting a feed, if they really wanted to attack humans than they would be easy pickings..

A few dead whales up and down the coast, and a this season is predicted to have more dead than usual. Id keep your eyes peeled, or even better, stay out of the water..

Talking about sharks. J bay finale is about to start

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novetti said..

Adriano said..

ThinkaBowtit said..
Why does it matter that they migrate? More white sharks is still more white sharks.

It matters because the point being that killing a few only partly reduces the risk for only part of the time for only part of the coast.

In NSW and QLD they kill, kill, kill but the sharks still kill. Migration perhaps? Well sharks don't swim around in a circle do they?

Really? How many GW's have they killed?
I thought they were protected.

To which Adriano responded.. "That's right. Keep them protected I say."

Brilliant argument... You Adriano, along with jbs, continually fail to acknowledge the fact that when you were boys no one was eaten by a white shark, simply because there were a lot less white sharks. Where they swim really isn't the point. You also both fail to acknowledge the sky didn't fall down, the algae and jellyfish didn't take over the oceans, sting rays didn't overpopulate. Nothing out of the ordinary happened except water sports were a relatively safe option. That is slowly, but surely changing, and you're good with it for the sake of feeling good about keeping some big toothy fish alive.

Bought a Fin for a Fin yet? They're struggling to reach $5K, way short of the $40K target by next month, seems they could do with your help.

Think about this. Although your chances of being attacked are very slim, you are in fact more likely to be attacked then winning a Nobel prize, be dealt three full houses in a row or win a academy award in your lifetime.

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jbshack said...
A few dead whales up and down the coast, and a this season is predicted to have more dead than usual.

Really, who made that prediction and why?

Why don't you clue me up then????? My guess is as good as yours as neither of us is a scientist or GWS expert, btw telling me to stay out of the water doesn't change the facts that GWS attacks have dramatically increased in the last 20 years, have a stab in the dark at what might have caused that!!! Ps there is not too many options on the answer.

Wildlife is what it is. You guys are still going at it here! I was looking at these memories I witnessed the silly maybe smart seal got away at the end.