Well, all you excellent drivers who squeal like 'stuck' pigs when you get done for speeding, 'oink oink Revenue Raiser oink oink'. What would be a better deterrent, for drivers that speed, than fining them for doing so.

Maybe these non-revenue raising methods could be adopted.
-No fine, just disqualify them from driving for say 12 months every time they offend
-Or flog that crap out of them with a base ball bat
-Or ask them nicely not to do it again.
-Or cut one finger off.

Or maybe you squealing pigs have a better way of deterring people from speeding that doesn't involve money. Or are you going to stay in denial that you may have done something wrong. (and there lies the crux of the problem I suspect)

'You have a problem with authority, Mr. Anderson. You believe you are special, that somehow the rules do not apply to you. Obviously, you are mistaken.'

Anytime I have been done for speeding, I don't run around whinging about it looking for sympathy (I want my mummy), I just accept that I f#cked up and take the consequences.

Some people live their whole lives with a bad case of "Poor Bugger Me" syndrome

And 'Grand Theft Auto" is not a certified Driver Training program.

I suppose in the future your cars' speed will be monitored by a nation wide network and your car will have 2 extra displays on the dash, one for fines incurred and the other for points lost. All updated automatically as you blunder along the roads. Yeah, they probably also be able to get you for running Red lights, not stopping at Stop signs, driving slow in the right lane, speeding up in the left hand lane of Passing Lanes, driving too long without a rest stop, answering or texting on your phone while driving, etc. If your squealing about Speed Cameras now, then your going to have a total meltdown in the near future.

-(No alcohol was involved in this post)

I'm the same.,.happily hand over the cash and thank the officer for reminding me to drive safely.

But then again, I don't live in Victoria where you get fined for doing 63 in a 60 zone. I reckon having to keep your eyes on your speedo so much is more dangerous than doing 5 over the limit.

It's interesting if anyone on this forum questions the science behind climate change they get unceremoniously put in their place. But question the science behind imposing speed limits and you get a full row of green thumbs.



If you're an alert driver you may be able to go for decades without having to fully hit the brake pedal. But you can't say you never will have to. If you do ever have to hit Emergency stop, apply the formula on the top right to find out how hard you're going to hit whatever you're wishing was not there. Driving just 5kph over the speed limit makes a huge difference to the outcome.

If you want to wipe speeding as an absolute, car automation. By gps or other, no override available.

There's good logic to having speed limits, determined by road conditions etc. but i'd rather be on the road with drivers who pay attention to the road ahead and maybe a few kph over due to that, than someone looking at the speedo every 2sec to make sure they're 5 kph under all the time.

I haven't had a speeding fine for almost 30 years. I lost my licence a few times from motorcycle speeding fines in my 20s. It makes sense to me to ride a bike a bit faster than the traffic so you don't have to worry about what is behind you.
Then giving up cars and driving a van to carry boards etc slowed me down.
It's amazing how much less of a problem the traffic seems to be when you're not constantly coming up behind that slow car ahead of you.

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Mr Milk said..
I haven't had a speeding fine for almost 30 years. I lost my licence a few times from motorcycle speeding fines in my 20s. It makes sense to me to ride a bike a bit faster than the traffic so you don't have to worry about what is behind you.
Then giving up cars and driving a van to carry boards etc slowed me down.
It's amazing how much less of a problem the traffic seems to be when you're not constantly coming up behind that slow car ahead of you.

Yeah, after driving back and forward between Sydney and Wollongong for many years, I finally figured out a good strategy that would make me less stressed. Drive slower! I normally like driving at the limit plus a few, but when going between Sydney and Wollongong, and not on a schedule, I drop down to 100kmh and cruise. Its easier being the one overtaken than being the one doing the overtaking or sitting behind someone that is in the right lane doing the same as they guy in the left lane. By sitting in the left lane at 100 clicks, I just don't care.

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Ian K said..
It's interesting if anyone on this forum questions the science behind climate change they get unceremoniously put in their place. But question the science behind imposing speed limits and you get a full row of green thumbs.



If you're an alert driver you may be able to go for decades without having to fully hit the brake pedal. But you can't say you never will have to. If you do ever have to hit Emergency stop, apply the formula on the top right to find out how hard you're going to hit whatever you're wishing was not there. Driving just 5kph over the speed limit makes a huge difference to the outcome.

So where do you draw the line? Another 5 km/h less would be safer again. And then another 5km/h less, and then another?

It would all be negated by driving metres behind the car in front.

In my experience, the majority of crashes occur in traffic, not in wide open spaces. In the wide open spaces, I doubt that doing 100kmh would have any better bearing than if they were doing 120kmh.

I think there should be a bit more focus on keeping people on the roads from being idiots. Speed, sure, that's an easy way for some to self-identify themselves, but does that really change the behaviour of some people?

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FormulaNova said..

Mr Milk said..
I haven't had a speeding fine for almost 30 years. I lost my licence a few times from motorcycle speeding fines in my 20s. It makes sense to me to ride a bike a bit faster than the traffic so you don't have to worry about what is behind you.
Then giving up cars and driving a van to carry boards etc slowed me down.
It's amazing how much less of a problem the traffic seems to be when you're not constantly coming up behind that slow car ahead of you.

Yeah, after driving back and forward between Sydney and Wollongong for many years, I finally figured out a good strategy that would make me less stressed. Drive slower! I normally like driving at the limit plus a few, but when going between Sydney and Wollongong, and not on a schedule, I drop down to 100kmh and cruise. Its easier being the one overtaken than being the one doing the overtaking or sitting behind someone that is in the right lane doing the same as they guy in the left lane. By sitting in the left lane at 100 clicks, I just don't care.

What do you do when you're sitting in the lane at 100 and come upon the people going 80?

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Kamikuza said..

FormulaNova said..

Mr Milk said..
I haven't had a speeding fine for almost 30 years. I lost my licence a few times from motorcycle speeding fines in my 20s. It makes sense to me to ride a bike a bit faster than the traffic so you don't have to worry about what is behind you.
Then giving up cars and driving a van to carry boards etc slowed me down.
It's amazing how much less of a problem the traffic seems to be when you're not constantly coming up behind that slow car ahead of you.

Yeah, after driving back and forward between Sydney and Wollongong for many years, I finally figured out a good strategy that would make me less stressed. Drive slower! I normally like driving at the limit plus a few, but when going between Sydney and Wollongong, and not on a schedule, I drop down to 100kmh and cruise. Its easier being the one overtaken than being the one doing the overtaking or sitting behind someone that is in the right lane doing the same as they guy in the left lane. By sitting in the left lane at 100 clicks, I just don't care.

What do you do when you're sitting in the lane at 100 and come upon the people going 80?

Indian ocean drive (in WA) is a good/bad example of that

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FormulaNova said..

So where do you draw the line? Another 5 km/h less would be safer again. And then another 5km/h less, and then another?

That's right. But sometimes you just have to let the authorities draw the line. Then if it all goes wrong, an inexperienced P plater, a millennial on a mobile etc.. you can at least be somewhat comforted by knowing you were doing no wrong.


www.science.org.au/curious/technology-future/physics-speeding-cars

Take my money any day, just not my precious points.

Drop below the speed limit because it's safer? Nah you just cause more problems with people trying to pass you. Just sit on the speed limit. Job done. Faster or slower than the speed limit creates its own set of problems.

Traffic can have a certain "flow" as well. Need to aware of this and adapt. (Riding a bike makes you more aware of this for sure).

I agree though, speed, get caught, take the hit. Eventually won't be an issue. Driverless cars or even semi driverless cars will limit your top speed to the designated speed limit anyway.

^^^ until the cyber attack that crashes them all and kills 10yrs worth of road toll in 1min.

yay.

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Kamikuza said..
What do you do when you're sitting in the lane at 100 and come upon the people going 80?

I blast my horn at them, call them roadhogs, and then ram them.

Why, what do you do?

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Kamikuza said..
What do you do when you're sitting in the lane at 100 and come upon the people going 80?

A serious response now,... I overtake them.

It bugs me when you see people 'stuck' behind other cars, so I am one of those people that is pretty aware of closing speeds and when I need to get across to the right. You know the thing I am talking about where someone has crept up behind another slower car and left it so late and are so close that unless some nice person comes along to let them in, they are stuck there.

It also bugs me when people sit in the right hand lane and sit just far apart that they can't let anyone in, and as a result the people in the left, like above, get stuck.

I try my best to avoid being one of those stuck, and sometimes its difficult, and I also try and give some space in front of me when approaching those people, to give them a chance to get out of there. What I absolutely hate is when some knob end decides that just flicking an indicator on means that they can jam their car into a space which is not big enough, when they could have anticipated the relative closing speeds much earlier on, and actually merged when it made sense.

When going down Mt Ousley towards Wollongong, the trucks are limited to the left of the 2 lanes there, and as a result, you get people stuck in the left hand lanes and people that will only sit in the right hand lane. I end up doing this too, but I also like to leave a decent gap, just to allow those people out.

Then I blast my horn at them, call them roadhogs, and then ram them!

I'm pretty cool I sit on the speed limit and just cruise, no point getting emotional it's all part of the ride.
HOWEVER , that's when everyone is doing the speed limit, it is not cool to buy a caravan for $50000 and a Prado for another $50000 and than sit at 80 in a 100 zone because you save 5c per every 50 km or whatever it is you have worked out.
these are the people that cause head ons and car crashes and impatience , these are the people that should be pulled over and fined , not 1 or 2 hundred bucks but 500 or 800.....
I don't care how many dollars you will save by doing 80 km on your around Australia trip in fuel.
Its inconsiderate it's dangerous and you are an asshole

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FormulaNova said..

Kamikuza said..
What do you do when you're sitting in the lane at 100 and come upon the people going 80?

A serious response now,... I overtake them.

It bugs me when you see people 'stuck' behind other cars, so I am one of those people that is pretty aware of closing speeds and when I need to get across to the right. You know the thing I am talking about where someone has crept up behind another slower car and left it so late and are so close that unless some nice person comes along to let them in, they are stuck there.

It also bugs me when people sit in the right hand lane and sit just far apart that they can't let anyone in, and as a result the people in the left, like above, get stuck.

I try my best to avoid being one of those stuck, and sometimes its difficult, and I also try and give some space in front of me when approaching those people, to give them a chance to get out of there. What I absolutely hate is when some knob end decides that just flicking an indicator on means that they can jam their car into a space which is not big enough, when they could have anticipated the relative closing speeds much earlier on, and actually merged when it made sense.

When going down Mt Ousley towards Wollongong, the trucks are limited to the left of the 2 lanes there, and as a result, you get people stuck in the left hand lanes and people that will only sit in the right hand lane. I end up doing this too, but I also like to leave a decent gap, just to allow those people out.

Then I blast my horn at them, call them roadhogs, and then ram them!

And if you can't overtake?

The issue isn't speed, cos limits haven't changed in how many decades? Cars have gotten faster, smoother, safer and smarter ... drivers haven't.

The majority of people have an IQ less than what was it, 120? And are sociopathic, entitled and feel the need to police everyone else's driving.

Years ago, an insurance company assessed the causes for the cases they had. Top 7 reasons were "driver failed to properly judge" something another driver was doing. Excess speed for the conditions was number 8.

And policing speed is not about safety as much as it is about revenue. There's a bridge and tunnel in NZ which was supposedly dangerous, so in goes a speed camera. They were getting $12 million annually in fines from the static camera, which has now dwindled away to nothing. So now they're trialing an average speed camera system...!

This in a country where they hand out tickets for 1kph over the limit /rolleyes

I ****ing hate driving, can't wait until I can get in my car and just sit back while it drives. It'll never happen though because there goes ALL the speeding, red light etc ticket revenues.

Limiting trucks to the leftmost lane is an excellent idea. Considering here they're supposed to be limited to 80, it's always a great time when you've got three trucks over-taking each other, going 76, 78 and 80... I also think there's some sort of stigma like "only bum bandits use the truck lane" so the best place to overtake is ... in the leftmost lanes.

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Razzonater said..
....
these are the people that cause head ons and car crashes and impatience , these are the people that should be pulled over and fined , not 1 or 2 hundred bucks but 500 or 800.....
....

While I don't like slow caravans and all the others, they are not the cause of accidents.

Your emotional reaction is the cause of dangerous actions that cause accidents. In fact, almost all dangerous circumstances on the road is the emotions of drivers.

- I want to drive faster because I don't like driving at the speed limit.
- I don't want to stop at a red light it's boring.
- I want to pass the car in front because I hate them.
- I want to drive my wanker car really fast because it gives me a stiffy.
- I want to be grumpy about traffic because that will really help.
- I have the right to drive faster than everybody else because I think I am better than everybody else.

If you want to solve the problem of road safety get rid of the dickhead behind the wheel.

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Gorgo said..

While I don't like slow caravans and all the others, they are not the cause of accidents.

Your emotional reaction is the cause of dangerous actions that cause accidents. In fact, almost all dangerous circumstances on the road is the emotions of drivers.

- I want to drive faster because I don't like driving at the speed limit.
- I don't want to stop at a red light it's boring.
- I want to pass the car in front because I hate them.
- I want to drive my wanker car really fast because it gives me a stiffy.
- I want to be grumpy about traffic because that will really help.
- I have the right to drive faster than everybody else because I think I am better than everybody else.

If you want to solve the problem of road safety get rid of the dickhead behind the wheel.

When I was in the UK, they had signs on the highway advising people to be considerate because bad driving causes accidents. Can't recall the exact wording now.

And technically you can (IIRC) be issued a citation for holding up traffic...

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Kamikuza said..

FormulaNova said..

Kamikuza said..
What do you do when you're sitting in the lane at 100 and come upon the people going 80?

A serious response now,... I overtake them.

It bugs me when you see people 'stuck' behind other cars, so I am one of those people that is pretty aware of closing speeds and when I need to get across to the right. You know the thing I am talking about where someone has crept up behind another slower car and left it so late and are so close that unless some nice person comes along to let them in, they are stuck there.

It also bugs me when people sit in the right hand lane and sit just far apart that they can't let anyone in, and as a result the people in the left, like above, get stuck.

I try my best to avoid being one of those stuck, and sometimes its difficult, and I also try and give some space in front of me when approaching those people, to give them a chance to get out of there. What I absolutely hate is when some knob end decides that just flicking an indicator on means that they can jam their car into a space which is not big enough, when they could have anticipated the relative closing speeds much earlier on, and actually merged when it made sense.

When going down Mt Ousley towards Wollongong, the trucks are limited to the left of the 2 lanes there, and as a result, you get people stuck in the left hand lanes and people that will only sit in the right hand lane. I end up doing this too, but I also like to leave a decent gap, just to allow those people out.

Then I blast my horn at them, call them roadhogs, and then ram them!

And if you can't overtake?

The issue isn't speed, cos limits haven't changed in how many decades? Cars have gotten faster, smoother, safer and smarter ... drivers haven't.

The majority of people have an IQ less than what was it, 120? And are sociopathic, entitled and feel the need to police everyone else's driving.

Years ago, an insurance company assessed the causes for the cases they had. Top 7 reasons were "driver failed to properly judge" something another driver was doing. Excess speed for the conditions was number 8.

And policing speed is not about safety as much as it is about revenue. There's a bridge and tunnel in NZ which was supposedly dangerous, so in goes a speed camera. They were getting $12 million annually in fines from the static camera, which has now dwindled away to nothing. So now they're trialing an average speed camera system...!

This in a country where they hand out tickets for 1kph over the limit /rolleyes

I ****ing hate driving, can't wait until I can get in my car and just sit back while it drives. It'll never happen though because there goes ALL the speeding, red light etc ticket revenues.

Limiting trucks to the leftmost lane is an excellent idea. Considering here they're supposed to be limited to 80, it's always a great time when you've got three trucks over-taking each other, going 76, 78 and 80... I also think there's some sort of stigma like "only bum bandits use the truck lane" so the best place to overtake is ... in the leftmost lanes.

The restriction of trucks to the left-most lane is a great idea. I think they had to introduce it on this particular stretch of road because it is a long steep downhill section, and I am sure in the past truck drivers have come to grief trying to overtake each other and not realising how hard it is to stop a heavy load at that speed downhill. I think when I was a kid, or at least 20 years ago, there might not have been this restriction.

One of my pet hates which I now understand is where someone drops down to say 80kmph in a single lane road, and then the overtaking lane starts and they speed up to the speed limit or above. They seem to slow down to a 'safe' speed on the single lane and then feel safer on the dual lane section, and/or not want to be overtaken, and speed up, only to slow down again when it gets back to a single lane.

It bugs me, and recently I got the ****s after sitting behind two other cars who were sitting behind this slow driver for section after section of overtaking lanes, with neither trying to overtake. When I finally decided to overtake all of them, one of them suddenly decides that they want to as well. Being a nice person, I will give them the benefit of the doubt and assume that they only realised then, but otherwise they are just idiots.

1kmh over the limit (in NZ or Japan)? That's crazy! No doubt there is some justification about 'they should not even be 1km over', but that's nonsense. I like the 'assumed' allowance we have here. If you have the balls to, or are stupid enough, you can play your luck and see how much over you can get away with. I used to like it when everyone else didn't sit close to the limit, but I think now with phone GPS being more common, people like me sit as close as they dare.

At what point do the police say 'this area is so dangerous that we won't hide the speed cameras' and just sit there obviously with a radar unit to ensure people slow down and then consistently pull them over 200 metres down the road and fine them instead of sending them a fine in the mail. I know I would be more careful of speeding if some cop pulled me over, read me the riot act, and then gave me a huge fine. A letter from the office of state revenue does not have the same impact.

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Ian K said..
It's interesting if anyone on this forum questions the science behind climate change they get unceremoniously put in their place. But question the science behind imposing speed limits and you get a full row of green thumbs.



If you're an alert driver you may be able to go for decades without having to fully hit the brake pedal. But you can't say you never will have to. If you do ever have to hit Emergency stop, apply the formula on the top right to find out how hard you're going to hit whatever you're wishing was not there. Driving just 5kph over the speed limit makes a huge difference to the outcome.

Yep, those are the same equations that I had in mind when making my comment. In that first equation, add an amount to the first time variable 't' to allow for the driver applying his brakes later because he is watching his speedo more than the road because of draconian ticketing policies.

I'm not talking about sitting on 65 instead of 60, I'm talking about sitting on 60, but not needing to keep your eyes glued to speedo the whole time. And in doing the comparison, we should be looking at an extra 2 kph, comparing 65 to 63.

Select to expand quote

Gorgo said..

Razzonater said..
....
these are the people that cause head ons and car crashes and impatience , these are the people that should be pulled over and fined , not 1 or 2 hundred bucks but 500 or 800.....
....

While I don't like slow caravans and all the others, they are not the cause of accidents.

Your emotional reaction is the cause of dangerous actions that cause accidents. In fact, almost all dangerous circumstances on the road is the emotions of drivers.

- I want to drive faster because I don't like driving at the speed limit.
- I don't want to stop at a red light it's boring.
- I want to pass the car in front because I hate them.
- I want to drive my wanker car really fast because it gives me a stiffy.
- I want to be grumpy about traffic because that will really help.
- I have the right to drive faster than everybody else because I think I am better than everybody else.

If you want to solve the problem of road safety get rid of the dickhead behind the wheel.

Agreed, it is the persons reaction that is the problem. That said, its a very human thing.

If you have ever driven in FNQ in winter behind a convoy of caravaners that are sitting closer than they are supposed to, you would probably have an idea of how frustrating this can be. If they were spaced out at a decent spacing, you could easily and safely overtake them one by one.

Unfortunately I think they think that they are going to save fuel by tailgating each other and just don't care. I think they believe that 80kmph is safe, so why should anyone else be allowed to drive faster than my safe speed.

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Harrow said..
I'm not talking about sitting on 65 instead of 60, I'm talking about sitting on 60, but not needing to keep your eyes glued to speedo the whole time. And in doing the comparison, we should be looking at an extra 2 kph, comparing 65 to 63.

What I have found interesting recently is that my turbo falcon can sit on cruise control and keep the speed within a km or two almost all the time. Its comfortable to drive that way in that you don't need to worry about going too slow or too fast.

The Elgrand on the other hand is 2 tonnes and has less power, so the cruise control can have you travelling at 105kmph one second and then 115kmph the next because you have just gone over a rise.

The falcon seems to have the power where the cruise control can adjust itself finely enough, whereas the Elgrand has to increase the throttle and drop down a gear, which just makes a mess of regulating the speed.

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FormulaNova said..

Harrow said..
I'm not talking about sitting on 65 instead of 60, I'm talking about sitting on 60, but not needing to keep your eyes glued to speedo the whole time. And in doing the comparison, we should be looking at an extra 2 kph, comparing 65 to 63.

What I have found interesting recently is that my turbo falcon can sit on cruise control and keep the speed within a km or two almost all the time. Its comfortable to drive that way in that you don't need to worry about going too slow or too fast.

The Elgrand on the other hand is 2 tonnes and has less power, so the cruise control can have you travelling at 105kmph one second and then 115kmph the next because you have just gone over a rise.

The falcon seems to have the power where the cruise control can adjust itself finely enough, whereas the Elgrand has to increase the throttle and drop down a gear, which just makes a mess of regulating the speed.

Nissans

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Harrow said..

applying his brakes later because he is watching his speedo more than the road because of draconian ticketing policies.

Draconian! NSW is Draconian. They put up 100 and everyone knows they mean 110! Did they all fail maths? The end result is they're watching the speedo just as closely as Victorians. A limit's a limit. If it says 110 in Victoria everyone knows to sit on about 105. If it was NSW they'd put up a 100 kph sign on a similar section of road, with the same result - most sitting on 105.

I've always thought that a TV campaign actually demonstrating safe, courteous driving in different scenarios would be far more effective than these horrific crash scenes or worse the ads that say things like "do you know the speed limit, we do" and the some crap about "we are watching you".

Some simple easy to follow scenarios with people all friendly and smiling like idiots... this would generate better behaviour on the roads. Solve the root problem don't just only punish the effect.

Speed is only ONE of many variables causing issues on the road. But a bloody easy one to raise revenue.

ps and a special ad just for all those wanker caravan drivers is needed.

pps truck drivers should always be given right of way and latitude. They are working and keeping the blood line alive in our communities. That's how I see it anyway and drive accordingly.

I'm still trying to work out what the rush is.......

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poor relative said..
I'm still trying to work out what the rush is.......

Durrrr that's easy. It's so you can be the first to line up somewhere, mostly at the next set of traffic lights.

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Razzonater said..
I'm sit at 80 in a 100 zone because you save 5c per every 50 km or whatever it is you have worked out.
these are the people that cause head ons and car crashes and impatience , these are the people that should be pulled over and fined , not 1 or 2 hundred bucks but 500 or 800.....

Its a bit harsh to fine someone 800 bucks if they are earning minimum wage and have a family. It might take them 4 months to save for that. Seriously, easy to say if youre on a good wage.

In NSW they fine people 300 bucks for not wearing a helmet. If you are living on a pension in housing commission and you get that much of a fine you are screwed. It's just greedy.

Yet I still don't wear a helmet around my local.

Helmet fines are much more oppressive than speeding fines. How much danger are you putting other people in at any speed on a bike?
As for your own safety, helmets make about as much difference to your chances of a serious injury over a lifetime riding as filtered cigarettes do for your chances of getting cancer. They look like they might do something, but in reality, not much.

In Finland, fines vary with your income
www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/in-finland-speeding-tickets-are-linked-to-your-income/

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Mr Milk said..
Helmet fines are much more oppressive than speeding fines. How much danger are you putting other people in at any speed on a bike?
As for your own safety, helmets make about as much difference to your chances of a serious injury over a lifetime riding as filtered cigarettes do for your chances of getting cancer. They look like they might do something, but in reality, not much.

In Finland, fines vary with your income
www.weforum.org/agenda/2018/06/in-finland-speeding-tickets-are-linked-to-your-income/

Are you sure about the helmet thing? One of my friends came off his bike on a supported ride, and the helmet was absolutely shattered, yet all he had was a bruise.

Sure, they make no impact, if you don't hit anything... but if you do, I am sure it does