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Mr Milk said..

cammd said..
People need a place to live and places to live cost money, if rental prices do not meet the costs of the property the landlords will default, banks will foreclose and the renter will be out on the street. No winners in that scenario.

I think that your analysis falls down at the last step. The bank forecloses and auctions property off to new owners. They don't tear it down, so total housing stock remains the same. The new set of owners probably have the same motivations as the old set, but are presumably starting from a smaller capital investment.

Don't know about the law in Oz but that's not the case in NZ. Banks lose money on foreclosure sales (they don't like that) and they are required by law to try very hard to get market rates for the house.

How can the banks loose $ when they never had it in the 1st place , for every dollar held in an account that same dollar is loaned out 8 times ....the profit for the bank is when you pay it back in real $$$ , what really hurts is they take ya house when the $$ loaned to you never really existed ... win win for banks .

Itll be easy for a tenant to prove they don't have income if they're working for cash.

It'll be an easy scam. So many have lost sleep over having horror tenants, this will create more of these situations.

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bjw said..
Itll be easy for a tenant to prove they don't have income if they're working for cash.

It'll be an easy scam. So many have lost sleep over having horror tenants, this will create more of these situations.

I think it requires a separation certificate from the previous employer. Sure, if they then start working for cash, you cannot know, but how common would that be that someone goes from a regular salary job to a cash job, in this economy?

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cisco said..

log man said..

So you're saying that given the choice between getting reduced rent and no rent, landlords will choose to get no rent. I wouldn't have thought so.

Not saying that at all. Given the choice of getting screwed over by a smart arse tenant playing the corona poverty game or having a vacant property, I will opt for the latter.

You do realise though that 'withdrawing the property from rental availability' means that you technically can't claim any interest you might be claiming and any maintenance costs over that period, including rates, water rates and the like? You can't even average your rental income over that whole year anymore.

That's a pretty stubborn approach to take, but it's your choice. Its your money to lose.

Let me put it a different way.

It is better to have no tenant than a dud tenant. I have had enough of them to know.

Hoop is looking to sign a 12 month tenancy agreement in Queensland in the coming weeks.....

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cisco said..
log man and hoop, neither of you have any idea.

Neither of you live in Queensland so what qualifies you to be commenting in this thread??

Seems to me that all either you want to do is have an argument.

Define your use of "sub optimal" log man.

Ive heard that queensland is a bit out there too. glad to hear from the locals. Im so glad i sold our rental with a month to spare.I thought i was hard done by that my tenant got arrested and banged up leaving me 6 tonnes of ** to clean out. it would have been worse having them still there and no rent coming in

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petermac33 said..
Hoop is looking to sign a 12 month tenancy agreement in Queensland in the coming weeks.....

Damn it Pete, I was looking to sign a lease. Hopefully in one of cisco' s properties because he seems like such a good guy to have as a landlord.
I didn't want him to know that I'm Asian and also Muslim though.
I think you just blew it for me Pete !

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Gboots said..
My parents are self funded and live solely off rent of two residential places .
How are they suppose to bills , food , taxes , etc ?
They sacrificed a lot to be self sufficient and live off a modest amount .
Makes you question why we should bother to be self sufficient

Surely your parents have heard of this
www.terrischeer.com.au/landlord-insurance/

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psychojoe said..

Gboots said..
My parents are self funded and live solely off rent of two residential places .
How are they suppose to bills , food , taxes , etc ?
They sacrificed a lot to be self sufficient and live off a modest amount .
Makes you question why we should bother to be self sufficient

Surely your parents have heard of this
www.terrischeer.com.au/landlord-insurance/

I would be surprised if that covered much at all. I have had heaps of people tell me I should get it, because everyone hears the ads on the radio, but very few talk first-hand of their experiences.

The little I looked at it, this sort of thing covers very little, and I think it appeals to this new generation of property investors, but to my mind its a policy that doesn't cover much at all, and I would be absolutely amazed if they covered much at all in a Covid19 type situation.

Have you had experience with them psychojoe, as it would be good to hear of positive experiences with them?

Come on guys, "Better an empty house than a bad tenant"

That saying is as old as the hills, it's what you say when you fart........

I heard on the grapevine that tenants will NOT have to pay the landlord for the previous 6 months - cant be surely?

I think the end result will be the same (and only delayed) whether the law is amended or not. Removing emotion from the argument -

No amendment to law: the landlord legally evicts a tenant and faces the prospect of the property being unoccupied and a new lease being negotiated at the market rate (possibly reduced) - note that the landlord is now responsible for all costs whilst the property is unoccupied.

Amended law: the landlord must keep the tenant (for the period of the amended law only) and the tenant is responsible for all rent owing (somewhere down the track) plus also responsible for some costs because the property is occupied continuously and will negotiate a new lease at a reduced rate when the current agreement is finished.

Negotiation: rent is adjusted to suit the current market conditions and property remains continuously occupied.

Note that only one of those options (hopefully) will result in no interruptions to cash flows for the landlord, and specifically note that the ability to legally evict a tenant will not get rid of any potential interruption to cash flow. So how does a government legislate this? They can't, and it's up to the market to negotiate it's own way out of the mess to achieve a desired result - ie the cash keeps coming in for landlords

What is an empty house with no tenants actually worth ....?
with 26% unemployment heading our way it may pay to cut your loses .

family member works in hi end banking , flat out dealing with loan deferrals, so many borrowers have lost their income ... the Ponzi scheme is finishing ...for now ...

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petermac33 said..
I heard on the grapevine that tenants will NOT have to pay the landlord for the previous 6 months - cant be surely?

I agree. It can't be. It would be like asking random people in the street to give you $500 a week for 6 months.

It makes sense if you can't evict people for 6 months, but they still owe you the same money.

It makes sense if you as the tenant are in financial hardship and try and negotiate a lower rent, and hope that the landlord can accomodate it.

but to just not make tenants pay rent for the previous 6 months? That's just crazy talk. It would be offset some if they didn't have to pay their mortgages for 6 months, but they do.

"What is an empty house with no tenants actually worth ....?" ........................ an excellent question Bazz

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Paddles B'mere said..
"What is an empty house with no tenants actually worth ....?" ........................ an excellent question Bazz

If it is left empty for too long (3 months) insurance is voided.

While it is vacant it gives the landlord an ideal opportunity to make repairs and upgrades to the property which in theory improve it's value.

If we want to know about thick skulls we should scan log man's head.

I am not in qld, but other states are doing similar things

I have rubbish tenants in one of my properties that I am thinking of kicking out, I would rather the place empty than let them pay peanuts in rent. Or let family stay there for a discounted rent, use it as an air bnb, or just store stuff there.

Then just negative gear it.

I need to make this move before my rights as a property owner are taken from me.

I'll raize it to the ground before I'll let the socialist steal any of my properties.

"I need to make this move before my rights as a property owner are taken from me.

I'll raize it to the ground before I'll let the socialist steal any of my properties."

Ya mate Turnbul did say you were quite mad ....!

@Tony Abbott, surely one of you parliamentary buddies would be able to supply you with some asylum seekers on a government accommodation program to help you out for a while

Yep, kick out the tenants that cant pay the full rent after they have jobs lost or minimum income due to the virus. Better getting nothing then something.
At least the empty property will give somewhere for the homeless squatters to move into ,
If you think its hard to get rid of a tenant, wait till you try to get rid of squatters. Should only take you a year or 2. and they love to use the floor boards as fire wood in the cold winter months.

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FormulaNova said..

psychojoe said..

Gboots said..
My parents are self funded and live solely off rent of two residential places .
How are they suppose to bills , food , taxes , etc ?
They sacrificed a lot to be self sufficient and live off a modest amount .
Makes you question why we should bother to be self sufficient

Surely your parents have heard of this
www.terrischeer.com.au/landlord-insurance/

I would be surprised if that covered much at all. I have had heaps of people tell me I should get it, because everyone hears the ads on the radio, but very few talk first-hand of their experiences.

The little I looked at it, this sort of thing covers very little, and I think it appeals to this new generation of property investors, but to my mind its a policy that doesn't cover much at all, and I would be absolutely amazed if they covered much at all in a Covid19 type situation.

Have you had experience with them psychojoe, as it would be good to hear of positive experiences with them?

No, no experience. The cover looked good on the surface. I'll need to dig a little deeper. Only been a landlord once before but thinking about renting out the beach shack and heading east for a while. BTW anybody want to rent a house by the water in Quinns, should be available the month after the borders reopen.

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TonyAbbott said..
I am not in qld, but other states are doing similar things
I'll raize it to the ground before I'll let the socialist steal any of my properties.

I am with you. I will not be held to ransom by some socialist "I got my rights!!" prick.
If you have rubbish tenants, get rid of them now. Don't think about it.

Residential landlords provide a valueable service to the general community which when rates, insurance, management fees, maintenance and vacancies in between tenants are taken into account, the landlord is lucky to achieve a 3% return on the investment.

If state governments further disadvantage landlords by legislation, those governments will end up with a huge liability to provide public housing.

Private landlords will just leave the game.

Ask the Queensland government how that is working for them. I have spoken with trades people whose stories of the work they do for state housing you would not believe ie completely refitting a unit that is only six months old.

Some who have posted in this thread have no right to because they have never walked the walk.

WOW, cisco is the hilter landlord from hell lol.
If you kick your tenants out now, you will be the one legally responsible and fined for your callous actions as its against the law to evict anyone in the next 6 months. Sorry but that's the law atm.
Investment property's are a risk like anything on the stock market, that's life, suck it up and move on. First world problems
Just sell it, if you are worried about risk investing, and put all that abundance of extra money for investment propertys into a European cruise.

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TonyAbbott said..
I am not in qld, but other states are doing similar things

I have rubbish tenants in one of my properties that I am thinking of kicking out, I would rather the place empty than let them pay peanuts in rent. Or let family stay there for a discounted rent, use it as an air bnb, or just store stuff there.

Then just negative gear it.

I need to make this move before my rights as a property owner are taken from me.

I'll raize it to the ground before I'll let the socialist steal any of my properties.

What are you going to raze to the ground? Your tax deductions?

Letting the family stay there for a reduced rent only if you can show that that is the current market rent. Leaving it empty and not trying to re-let it reasonably is also a good way to not claim any deductions for that period.

AirBnB? Interesting. Lots of info suggests that AirBnB is not a success right now, but you do hear some stories of essential workers needing somewhere to stay.

The important part of negative gearing is that you intend to rent it out, not just pretend to rent it out. I am not sure the ATO will really have the resources to bother with it though.

I feel lucky, I have a good tenant, and I am happy to reduce the rent in the short term to keep them there. Sure, its not ideal, but I would rather lose some money than be faced with losing it all, and at the same time helping out someone that has been a very good tenant.

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lotofwind said..
WOW, cisco is the hilter landlord from hell lol.
If you kick your tenants out now, you will be the one legally responsible and fined for your callous actions as its against the law to evict anyone in the next 6 months. Sorry but that's the law atm.
Investment property's are a risk like anything on the stock market, that's life, suck it up and move on. First world problems
Just sell it, if you are worried about risk investing, and put all that abundance of extra money for investment propertys into a European cruise.

I sort of understand where he is coming from. Some tenants are legit and will begrudgingly ask for a rental reduction. Some will do it just because they think that they can.

In a situation with a poor tenant, it might be better to lower it enough to make it sound reasonable, so that when you do get to kick them out, or the emergency is over, that you can claim that you did make a reasonable effort and that the rent owed is reasonable. If you don'tmake that attempt, you might find it more challenging to get them out and/or to get them paid what is owed in rent.

Formula = good reasonable landlord
cisco = landlord from hell (bit like a mother In law)
We are going through a tough time atm, we all need to adjust, look after others and understand its not forever and will get back to normal.
Most have lost income from jobs or rental payment etc. , but hey, we are still alive, we don't have 2000 people a day dead like other countrys.
It is what it is, at the end of the day your wealth and multiple investment propertys wont go with you to heaven......or hell



If they are crap tenants, why have you let them stay till now ? Are they on a 6month lease??? if not why didn't you do a 6 month lease first to see if they fit your high standards first and if they didn't don't agree to continue ?? Im guessing you didn't care how sh!t they were till they missed a payment

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lotofwind said..
Formula = good reasonable landlord
cisco = landlord from hell (bit like a mother In law)
We are going through a tough time atm, we all need to adjust, look after others and understand its not forever and will get back to normal.
Most have lost income from jobs or rental payment etc. , but hey, we are still alive, we don't have 2000 people a day dead like other countrys.
It is what it is, at the end of the day your wealth and multiple investment propertys wont go with you to heaven......or hell



If they are crap tenants, why have you let them stay till now ? Are they on a 6month lease??? if not why didn't you do a 6 month lease first to see if they fit your high standards first and if they didn't don't agree to continue ?? Im guessing you didn't care how sh!t they were till they missed a payment

Here's an interesting point to ponder... If I am reducing the rent for a tenant, and therefore losing money, do I have the right to turn around to my landlord and try and argue for reduced rent because i am also now on a reduced income due to Covid19 because of the rent reduction?

My landlord is not directly linked, because for the moment I still have a job, but in effect, I do have a reduced income.