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Paddles B'mere said..
For example, does anyone actually believe that the "disposal fee" for a used car tyre can actually cover the cost of its proper disposal?

Tires actually are worth money. You just need a cement manufacturing plant around so you can throw them in the clinquer oven.
It's been done in many places and its not detrimental to the environment.

In WA only the metro perth rubbish is sorted and a fraction is recycled. In all other regional areas, everything goes to the tip (including glass, paper, plastic, metals). They say its too expensive to sort and can't be handled locally. Some clown in the NW mentioned they planned to charge more to cart the stuff to Perth them local people won't like it.

Complete nonsense...

Getting a hook on the above, as we can't transform any materials or manufacture anything here as its soo cost prohibitive, we lose the opportunity to reuse recycling at this same opportunities.

We will drown in a sea of barista coffee cups one day but will need to import the cups from somewhere anyway.

Yep, tyres can be used as fuel in a furnace, or a in a clinker kiln like you describe Novetti. There is processing required to remove the steel wire and the textile to leave rubber chips. There is also another process that can extract a fuel out of the rubber, but it's costly. This is the catch, the steel wire and rubber chips have a value but in a depressed market it doesn't cover the cost of the processing so it's more cost efficient to bale them up and ship them to another country that allows them to be dumped. Basically, it's cheaper to use coal than chipped rubber for furnace fuel.

Soft plastic recycling should be on the radar for every local government, there is so much of this sh!t around and very few places for it to be properly recycled so it just ends up in landfill or worst case, the environment. This should be of equal priority to single use bag bans for government.

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Paddles B'mere said..

Soft plastic recycling should be on the radar for every local government, there is so much of this sh!t around and very few places for it to be properly recycled so it just ends up in landfill or worst case, the environment. This should be of equal priority to single use bag bans for government.

I don't know what its like everywhere, but I suspect most local councils will compare the cost of recycling with the cost of doing other stuff to keep the public happy, and then dump the plastic on the quiet.

Its unfortunate, but when there is a cost to it, people will take the least cost.

From what I have seen on that waste program on SBS, a lot of companies effectively outsource the problem by engaging external companies so that the problem is not theirs. If the end company burns it instead, they will just say that they engaged a company to recycle it and the rest was out of their hands.

I'll keep buying the green re-usable bags from Woolies until I have a car boot full and remember to take them back into the shops again.

Though i I also have a blue IKEA bag in the boot, line the trolley, fill it and get it from the car to the kitchen bench in one trip...?

You have hit the nail on the head FN, that's exactly how it's being dealt with and until something happens like what happened in Ipswich a couple of months back no-one is any the wiser.

It's not actually the council's responsibility for packaging recycling. It is the manufacturer/importer brand owner.

read about the Packaging Covenant

www.packagingcovenant.org.au/

Here is my shopping bag solution. Made from an old kite. The main bag is from 'heavy' (strut) kite material, with a small flip out bag of lighter (canopy) material sewn inside one edge.
It is so good to use I remember to take it shopping. Can clip a hand basket on the carabiners and have hands free shopping to weave around the trolley pushers in the shop (or just use the bag at the markets).

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Skid said..





Here is my shopping bag solution. Made from an old kite. The main bag is from 'heavy' (strut) kite material, with a small flip out bag of lighter (canopy) material sewn inside one edge.
It is so good to use I remember to take it shopping. Can clip a hand basket on the carabiners and have hands free shopping to weave around the trolley pushers in the shop (or just use the bag at the markets).

Nice one SKID , ryan at the sail doctor in wa makes similar also coup d vent,

Humans certainly are a weird species. It looks like many of us make different purchase choices if we bring in our own bags.

Maybe Coles and Wollies are tapping into a Gravy train.


Shoppers Buy More Junk Food When They Bring Their Own Bags

www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2015/07/plastic-bag-reusable-junk-food/398372/

People who walk into a grocery store with canvas bags in hand are already in a greener mindset, and this affects their purchasing decisions. Although many people don't even know precisely what "organic" means, they still perceive buying organic as doing a favor for the environment, so it makes sense that their environmentally-friendly mentality might lead them to be more open to purchasing organic foods.

The theory as to why bringing a bag makes people more likely to buy junk food is more interesting. Karmarkar and Bollinger chalk it up to what's called the "licensing effect," which describes the phenomenon that after people make a decision they consider responsible and noble, they feel justified in giving themselves a reward down the line.

One group of people proved impervious to the effects of bringing grocery bags: parents. It's not entirely clear why this is the case. It might be because, as they shop, parents are thinking about what they need to feed their kids, not their own indulgence. It could also be that they're less likely to view bag-bringing as a virtuous act, instead filing it under the category of parental duty.

That's some cool info Elroy, marketing to a human mindset is an amazing thing.

Skid, you're embracing the new age in style with that bag, repurpose or reuse is the fundamental plan.

I'll back up Chris' call on the blue Ikea bags, those things are like a tardis, you can fit a whole lotta shopping in one of those bad boys, in fact that's my shopping bag of choice if I'm in a vehicle, there's one wedged into the door trim of the old landcruiser permanently now.

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FormulaNova said.I end up with heaps of single use bags from my shopping, and use a lot of them for rubbish bags. Eventually though I have too many and throw them out, but even then I ball them up and put them in one that already has my rubbish in it. So, short of the rubbish guys opening up my carefully packed rubbish, I don't think any of them would end up anywhere except the dump.

It's a bit late to tell you, now that the bags are being abolished, but both Coles and Woolies accepted them back for recycling. I stopped carrying my own bags about 4 years ago when I found that out.
They didn't make a big effort to publicise it because they have a problem with people including all sorts of bags in what they return, so contaminating what was potentially a very clean waste stream. Plastics aren't all the same. They are a lot like alloyed metals, being blended with stabilisers and plasticisers. Unlike metals, it is very hard to remove the blended or alloying elements to produce a feedstock for remanufacturing

Interesting Mr Milk, I didn't know Coles/Woolies did that. We've just got an IGA in town and they don't have anything like that.

What you're saying about the contamination is a real problem, it could be mitigated a bit if government stepped in and enforced packaging standards and matching recycling programs but they're just leaving it up to the market to decide. The market generally just goes for the cheapest product and doesn't consider the costs of the waste. And it's made even harder for the market to make an ethical decision when they think that they're doing the right thing and the waste companies and local authorities are hiding the real problems.

Actually, no, at least partly. A simplified range of packaging types would help, but most of the recycling contamination problem in kerbside recycling is down to people not understanding or cooperating with the programme. Screwing lids back onto bottles and jars is a problem because the lids and bottles are made from different plastics.
And people using shopping bags to hold their recyclables together in the bin is another. They think it's tidy but it is a problem for the sorting machines to have bags tangling things up.
I think the recycling truck drivers should be instructed to not collect bins which are obviously contaminated with bags, Styrofoam etc. It's easy to see them when they are lidless and overflowing with non recyclable materials. Maybe even fines are needed

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Mr Milk said..

FormulaNova said.I end up with heaps of single use bags from my shopping, and use a lot of them for rubbish bags. Eventually though I have too many and throw them out, but even then I ball them up and put them in one that already has my rubbish in it. So, short of the rubbish guys opening up my carefully packed rubbish, I don't think any of them would end up anywhere except the dump.

It's a bit late to tell you, now that the bags are being abolished, but both Coles and Woolies accepted them back for recycling. I stopped carrying my own bags about 4 years ago when I found that out.
They didn't make a big effort to publicise it because they have a problem with people including all sorts of bags in what they return, so contaminating what was potentially a very clean waste stream. Plastics aren't all the same. They are a lot like alloyed metals, being blended with stabilisers and plasticisers. Unlike metals, it is very hard to remove the blended or alloying elements to produce a feedstock for remanufacturing

Actually, I did know this. When on holiday with some windsurfing mates, a few years back, they pointed out that some supermarkets had recycling for plastic bags. Surprisingly, when in WA we couldn't find any, but this might be because we tended to shop at the IGAs there.

I remembered the TV program was called 'war on waste' and its back on ABC, although maybe subsequent episodes to the one I am thinking of.

In this program, they were trying to find out to who and where the plastic bag recycling was going, so they put some GPS trackers in those bins. It lead them to Qld I think, and then it either got into landfill or unknown, or overseas. I can't remember that bit.

The important bit about that was that Coles or Woolies didn't know where the plastic bag recycling happened, they just paid some third party to do it. A cynical person might say that they did this to appear as if they recycled them, but otherwise didn't have to worry about it.

So, recycling of plastic bags, probably didn't happen even though they accepted them at the stores.

Maybe we will never see a cost effective way to recycle? I think it is one of the Nordic countries that have very strict rules on what can be recycled and exactly which bin it goes into. It sounds like it works.

Here, people throw all sorts of stuff in the bin that they think might be recycled but probably doesn't.

They have got rid of the single use plastic bags because the customers/community wanted them to and has been one of the major complaints/feedback from the local communities.
Its a good thing that the big companies listen to what people want and acted on it.
The multiple use 99 cent bags are made to last at least 40 shops and all profits made from them are pumped straight into junior land care, well from Woolworths anyway.. Another good thing that not only helps for 40 times less plastic bags out there, but profits back into helping the environment and local communities.
So why are you all complaining ?
I think enviro care is up to ALL of us, not just the big companies. If you don't want pre packed cut pumpkin or watermelons wrapped in plastic, don't buy them and buy your fruit/veggies whole. If you don't want to buy the Woolies re usable plastic bags that profits go back to the community then don't, get off ya butt and make or buy your own bags. Lazy people expecting and whining for others to fix the problems, but don't have a crack at helping themselves and just complain about it all are the biggest part of the problem.

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lotofwind said..blah blah....
They have got rid of the single use plastic bags because the customers/community wanted them to and has been one of the major complaints/feedback from the local communities.
Its a good thing that the big companies listen to what people want and acted on it.
Ahhhhh. Yeah out of the goodness of their hearts. Didn't you see it saves them money too? Even after the money they will give to junior land care WeverTF that is...

The multiple use 99 cent bags are made to last at least 40 shops and all profits made from them are pumped straight into junior land care, well from Woolworths anyway.. Another good thing that not only helps for 40 times less plastic bags out there, but profits back into helping the environment and local communities.
You don't read well. 40x less bags but they have more plastic in them. Some smart folks figured out their impact is the same basically.

So why are you all complaining ?
We're not. We're debating what might have the best impact. If they banned red cars to reduce fatal crashes you might just say that's silly. Same as we are doing here.
You seem to not understand debate, only having a crack at others...? If other have an opinion they are whingers. Not the first time you have gone that route too....

I think enviro care is up to ALL of us, not just the big companies. If you don't want pre packed cut pumpkin or watermelons wrapped in plastic, don't buy them and buy your fruit/veggies whole.
I do. But mentioning that does not make me a complaining type. A few of us mentioned it the same as you just did.


If you don't want to buy the Woolies re usable plastic bags that profits go back to the community then don't, get off ya butt and make or buy your own bags. Lazy people expecting and whining for others to fix the problems, but don't have a crack at helping themselves and just complain about it all are the biggest part of the problem.

No, myopic viewpoints are the biggest part of the problem.

lol, they are a business, they have done something that helps the environment, donates and helps a environmental organization and , as you make up, saves them money...... well duuuuh, sounds like a win for everyone but you, the head old whinger lol.
So whats the problem you have with all that?
Im guessing too tight to buy yourself some enviro bags.
Its always the older generation that struggle big time with the new changes in life.

Wonder if cellophane could be better utilized ? I've been smashing thousands of these out a week for years , cheaper by the pallet.
Not sure if the production is more or less feral than the Polypropylene alternative
I liked the idea of throwing the sleeve in the greenwaste if it happened to die in the fridge but the masses at my local stores still complained about the plastic cup on the bottom ( hippster community ) so upon then changing the finished product to rockwool/rubberband vs perlite/vermiculite/plastic/cellophane , at the expense of a major pain in the arse , now they are unhappy with the product going limp too quick.
People are funny

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lotofwind said..
lol, they are a business, they have done something that helps the environment, donates and helps a environmental organization and , as you make up, saves them money...... well duuuuh, sounds like a win for everyone but you, the head old whinger lol.
So whats the problem you have with all that?
Im guessing too tight to buy yourself some enviro bags.
Its always the older generation that struggle big time with the new changes in life.

Yeah well you guessed wrong.
Amazing how you can have an opinion but the rest of the people in the thread are having a complain (according to you).
I don't think you're cut out for grown ups conversations.
Pretty immature for somebody your age.

Hey maybe go over the the Bali pollution thread and tell them they're all whingers.
Oh that's right,I haven't posted in that thread....


Laurie can you make him a moderator as his great talent for deciding what opinions are valid and what is "whinging" has been apparent in a few threads now.

ban everything starting with this rubbish website

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Mark _australia said..

lotofwind said..
lol, they are a business, they have done something that helps the environment, donates and helps a environmental organization and , as you make up, saves them money...... well duuuuh, sounds like a win for everyone but you, the head old whinger lol.
So whats the problem you have with all that?
Im guessing too tight to buy yourself some enviro bags.
Its always the older generation that struggle big time with the new changes in life.

Yeah well you guessed wrong.
Amazing how you can have an opinion but the rest of the people in the thread are having a complain (according to you).
I don't think you're cut out for grown ups conversations.
Pretty immature for somebody your age.

Hey maybe go over the the Bali pollution thread and tell them they're all whingers.
Oh that's right,I haven't posted in that thread....


Laurie can you make him a moderator as his great talent for deciding what opinions are valid and what is "whinging" has been apparent in a few threads now.

OMG, do you ever stop " whinging " lol Now your whinging about whinging.

Plastic bags are the most recycled thing ever.

Everyone keeps them and uses them again for taking lunch to work, putting dirty gym clothes in, impromptu rubbish bag etc etc etc

Banning them is just virtue signaling for dumb people

You are correct TonyAbbott, re-purposing or re-using is the absolute most efficient form of recycling. However, the old way of just handing bags out for free meant that they had no economic value so the resource was squandered and abandoned because it was seen to be limitless. Now that people have to pay for them they will still be re-purposed and re-used but they will be re-used more times because not only will they be mechanically stronger so will last longer but people will place a value on them.

An example of this is; the P&C of our local school runs a stall for fathers day and mothers day where the kids can buy a really krap pressie for their parents. Our local IGA stopped giving out free plastic bags a couple of months ago when their stock ran out. For these P&C stalls we put a call out for plastic bags prior to the stall being held so the kids can put their krap pressie in it and write their name on it so they don't lose it (or eat the goodies they bought for their oldies). Normally we get inundated with bags for this. For the fathers day stall coming up in a couple of months we will have to get the kids to bring their own bag in from home because all the parents are saying "I can't give away bags because I use them for my rubbish and I don't want to have to buy rubbish bags". This is the net result of placing a value on the resource, people will value the resource and not waste the resource.

lets triple the planet population and see if that works

Thought I'd do a little bit or research tonight on the plastic bag ban,
Ordered a delivery from Woolworths , as you can see
f..k all has changed, I asked the driver why have I plastic bags when they're banned,
he said every delivery asked the same,
So generally if there's a ban then there's a prosecution for those that break a ban, how come do I keep getting plastic
when I don't want or exspect it

Woolworths are ****s

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cauncy said..
Thought I'd do a little bit or research tonight on the plastic bag ban,
Ordered a delivery from Woolworths , as you can see
f..k all has changed, I asked the driver why have I plastic bags when they're banned,
he said every delivery asked the same,
So generally if there's a ban then there's a prosecution for those that break a ban, how come do I keep getting plastic
when I don't want or exspect it

Woolworths are ****s

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Razzonater said..
Hemp
problem solved

All the hemp I've ever bought was in a plastic bag.

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Marsbars said..

Walked out with mine the other night... took stuff to car and took it back. No different to the trolleys...

Virtue signalling bull**** from the majors.

When asked if she wanted a plastic bag with a cheery, "They're free", the old woman in front of me today said, "Kinda defeats the purpose dear". ROFL

Careful fellas intelligent questioning of the inconsistencies makes you a whinger.

I can't believe they are using bags in delivery stuff