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Flying Dutchman said..

FormulaNova said..
There would be heaps more people that told us things that were impractical or impossible, yet without having been tested there is no way of knowing if they were good ideas or crackpot theories.

Tested? How much were the Covid vaccines tested haha. They were tested so much they wouldn't sell it to our governments unless we offered them liability free status in case it turned to shiit.

Pfizer just admitted they had not even tested it on transmission because they moved, "At the speed of science."

The vax was labelled as effective. What vaccine do you need four of & still catch & pass on the disease it was supposed to stop? If this is the definition of effective, what does safe mean?

I don't know if you are intentionally not understanding what I meant by 'tested' or not. In this context I meant 'put to the test', i.e. I could say that lemon skins placed on your ankles cures Covid, but until it is tried/tested it means nothing. Using vaccines is an expected response to a virus though and even though its a new virus, it is inline with previous science.

Do you understand why a vaccine of this nature cannot stop infection? As a hint, articles I have read suggest that the upper respiratory tract is like it is in a different organism and it is very difficult to defend against viruses there.

The (you?) antivaxxers could have really done a solid favor for the rest of the community by isolating yourselves together and taking a hit of Covid. It would prove if 'natural-immunity' existed, plus it would have given you immunity after the initial infection..... What's that? An infection from one variant of Covid does not protect you from a follow up infection from a different variant of Covid? OMG, what sort of virus is this thing? You mean the actual virus changes and you can get repeatedly infected?

Were there any 'control groups' in the world that never got access to vaccines and let Covid spread? This would tell us more about what alternate responses would have been like. My guess is that South Africa might have been a good example. I am not sure what their access to vaccines was like, but a large amount of people without distancing seemed to generate more and more variants as the virus mutated within the population.

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Flying Dutchman said..
Anyway thanks to Covid lockdowns, inflation just hit 7.3%.... gonna be a fun 2023.

Yeah, it would have been much better if we had a recession instead and inflation flat-lined. Don't start talking economics if you don't understand the alternatives.

Please keep in mind, it could have gone either way. If there had been no job-keeper. If there had been no social support. If there had been no allowance for people to try and continue their jobs remotely. If companies had not implemented isolation and control policies to try and stop their sites being locked down. We could have had an economy thrust into recession.

Its actually a pretty good world where we can argue about what might have been from the comfort of mainly being on the other side of a situation, knowing that we live in a pretty safe, secure, and supportive society.

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Harrow said..

I'm just trying to objectively understand what the effects of the vaccine have been on the population. I tried to get a sensible number from the news poll, and ended up with 2-3%. The number of people on this thread is pretty small, and we have 2, 3, maybe more, very significant health issues. The specialists my daughter has been seeing have told her that her condition is most likely due to the vaccine, but it can't be 100% proven and it won't appear in any official covid statistic. Oddly, her high school english tutor commented on the unusual number of students that she tutors that have developed the same rare condition as my daughter since the vaccinations.

Is it still statistically a good idea to take the vaccination. Probably, perhaps? Let people make their own choice. Why effectively force people to take it if it reduces symptoms but doesn't stop the spread? (Yes, this was my view before my teenage daughter's life was ruined, it's not an 'after the event' stance.)

I am not sure there is an easy way to get an understanding of how many people were significantly affected by the covid vaccines. I doubt reasonable data exists. Maybe in time we will see a decent analysis, not just news polls.

If we were all self-reporting, does "I felt ill after my second vax" constitute an impairment or just normal response to a vaccine. Are doctors accurately reporting any heart problems after vaccinations? Are lots of cases going unreported? Are lost of cases being over-reported?

I myself have met someone that told me that their son-in-law got a pacemaker after vaccination problems, and then his mother died after contracting Covid. I don't know these people, and I have no idea if thousands of other people would report this example as 'someone I know' or if there are hundreds or thousands more of these types of cases.

Because I have no authority and what I say is clearly just my own opinion, I believe that taking the vaccines has provided a degree of protection to a lot of people, without unleashing a huge wave of Covid onto the population in one go. My recollection from the early days was that China was being overrun with thousands of deaths and no one knew how to treat the patients. Over time, they learned that some techniques worked better than others. Isolation helped slow the spread down to allow better treatments to be worked out.

I know its cold comfort to anyone that has ended up with a heart condition after taking the vaccines. Clearly its not something we would wish on anyone. But at the same time I wouldn't wish Covid on anyone, and the risk of these heart problems is higher in this group than in the vaccinated.

Hey, what happened to the retort about me being a good Pharma Rep? Its when I see these things said I start thinking 'okay, definite conspiracy theorist here'. If I try and understand the science and they don't does that make me a stooge for Big Pharma? Or just someone that wants to understand things and not just blindly blame others?

Flame suit on!

No time to reply, I'm on my way to Gnaraloo.... I take that back, you'd be a great Pharma rep haha

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remery said..
"In fact, it most often affects otherwise healthy, young, athletic types with the high-risk population being those of ages from puberty through their early 30's, affecting males twice as often as females."

www.myocarditisfoundation.org/about-myocarditis/

You got any websites that discuss pericarditis as being common in your eyes/mind? Because it was what I was diagnosed with straight after the vaccine. Only had to wait 3 months for an MRI that showed myocarditis due to the lies told by Pfizer and the government.
Remery maybe you are still living in denial after having quadruple shots of something that doesn't do what they said it does..

It was reported on Sky News recently that airlines in Spain and Russia are recommending those who have had the shots not to fly due to the increased risk of blood clots.

Safe and effective....

Brenton Faithful is a veteran funeral director from New Zealand. He reports that since August 2021, 95% of all the corpses he attended have been people who died within two weeks of a covid "vaccine" injection. He also notes that he has never seen a clear case of an "unvaccinated" person who died from covid-19


New Zealand's Sad 95% | Funeral director reports ? Dr Trozzi

The only claim about the Pfizer jab that could be legally made is that trials proved it could stop the onset of mild "Covid" symptoms in around 0.8% of the population.

That's it

That's all the trials proved.

There are strict laws in place to stop , for instance, Joe Bloggs from mixing together a few vitamins, minerals and herbs and claiming it cures cancer.

Any claims about the efficacy of medicines , treatment regimes and formulations MUST be proved by extensive and very strictly regulated trials.

The "safe and effective" , "safe for pregnant women", "rare side effects" , "prevents transmission" , "prevents serious illness" etc claims were illegal to make as there was no trial data .

The 95% efficacy claim, although not technically a lie, was a deliberate and callous deception.

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Pcdefender said..

Farewell DJ Mighty Mouse, we'll all miss you.

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I know its cold comfort to anyone that has ended up with a heart condition after taking the vaccines. Clearly its not something we would wish on anyone. But at the same time I wouldn't wish Covid on anyone, and the risk of these heart problems is higher in this group than in the vaccinated.

Do you have any peer reviewed studies to back your claims about the heart problems from covid for those unvaccinated in Australia?or are you just parroting what big pharma has told you? Probably quite difficult to conduct a study now as the vaccines were moving at the speed of science and 96% of the population has had at least one.

Can you explain why China arent using mRNA vaccines?

I suggest you use the google machine and loo up the studies that have come from Israel and Japan saying theres a 25% increase in myocarditis in those vaccinated compared to those unvaccinated.

Can you explain why they (those making billions in profits) are still calling the mRNA vaccines (by definition), vaccines when they are nothing like any previous vaccines we have for polio etc

Its very interesting to see anyone who provides evidence against these vaccines is discredited on some strange political argument tangent.

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Pcdefender said..
Brenton Faithful is a veteran funeral director from New Zealand. He reports that since August 2021, 95% of all the corpses he attended have been people who died within two weeks of a covid "vaccine" injection. He also notes that he has never seen a clear case of an "unvaccinated" person who died from covid-19


New Zealand's Sad 95% | Funeral director reports ? Dr Trozzi

Wtf. I can see why he is a funeral director and not a practicing medical doctor. So his position is, 95% of people die from covid vaccinations, 5% from all other causes combined (except covid which nobody dies from apparently).

sound legit? Also, here's a tip for you, funeral directors don't determine cause of death.

once again, the real enemy is the failure to teach critical thought in our education system.

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Pcdefender said..
It was reported on Sky News recently

Let me stop you there

www.aap.com.au/factcheck/vaccinated-passengers-havent-been-grounded-over-blood-clot-fears/

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ok said..

I know its cold comfort to anyone that has ended up with a heart condition after taking the vaccines. Clearly its not something we would wish on anyone. But at the same time I wouldn't wish Covid on anyone, and the risk of these heart problems is higher in this group than in the vaccinated.

Do you have any peer reviewed studies to back your claims about the heart problems from covid for those unvaccinated in Australia?or are you just parroting what big pharma has told you? Probably quite difficult to conduct a study now as the vaccines were moving at the speed of science and 96% of the population has had at least one.

Can you explain why China arent using mRNA vaccines?

I suggest you use the google machine and loo up the studies that have come from Israel and Japan saying theres a 25% increase in myocarditis in those vaccinated compared to those unvaccinated.

Can you explain why they (those making billions in profits) are still calling the mRNA vaccines (by definition), vaccines when they are nothing like any previous vaccines we have for polio etc

Its very interesting to see anyone who provides evidence against these vaccines is discredited on some strange political argument tangent.

Hey, I understand you are pissed off about your own situation, but I am not the government. I am not the one responsible for mandated vaccines. Don't bother attacking me, I have no skin in the game. I am just like you and subject to whatever I get told.

I have posted before in another Covid 19 vaccine topic about myocarditis being a common symptom of Covid 19 infection. Do I have a peer reviewed study from the unvaccinated in Australia? Of course not. What I did see ages ago was a small study in the US showing that Covid19 patients had higher (than vaccinated uninfected patients) rates of heart problems. Good luck in finding it, but I am sure you could if you wanted to. It is a common issue with actual infections. Don't believe me? Well?? I am not going to bother chasing it either as its not going to do anything for you.

I have no idea what China are using for vaccines.

If I haven't put it properly, what i was trying to say was that heart issues are a common enough result from covid infection. Not the unvaccinated that haven't been infected.

I saw a post here before where someone was going on about how the drug companies had to get an indemnity for these vaccines. Doesn't that make sense to most people? Governments were desperately scratching around for a solution and vaccines seemed to be the only way out of it. Vaccines for upper respiratory issues had not been actively produced at that point. If the governments had not given indemnities to these companies do you think they would be bothered to release any vaccines? No. There would be nothing in it for them and a huge risk. With potentially millions of dollars for each patient in a lawsuit and only $20 a shot, would you sell something like that? Without the indemnities there would have been no vaccines at all.

Despite what you are reading, these vaccines are vaccines. They stimulate a response in the immune system and the body attacks the virus. The 'vaccine' is not hunting down the virus. The mRNA bit is where mRNA is used to create a protein that looks like the virus so that the immune system attacks that. By using mRNA the body produces lots of these proteins which then generate an immune response.

I don't know what your last point is about. Political argument?

For every argument that its some sort of conspiracy its easy enough to look at the logic and why something was done. If it were a conspiracy, it beats the hell out of me what the purpose of the conspiracy was.

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Harrow said..

Pcdefender said..

Farewell DJ Mighty Mouse, we'll all miss you.

This is so abstract that I think I understand it. I am not sure you have Googled the correct 'died suddenly' person/s though...

The virus has had some very positive outcomes.
Most of the anti vaxer nutters got banned from Seasbreeze.

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FormulaNova said..
....There would be nothing in it for them and a huge risk. With potentially millions of dollars for each patient in a lawsuit and only $20 a shot, would you sell something like that? ...

umm, yeah ?

Pfizer's own reporting says they made $37bn profit in 2021 from Covid vaccines.

They also declared by the end of 2021 that all up costs resulted in it costing them about $6.75 / dose to research and produce to that point. Presumably by the end of 2022 that will have dropped a bit more as more gets made.

Meaning they sell at about 300% markup.

Making it the most lucrative manufactured product ever.

Huh, I couldn't see lotofwind or Carantoc's post... must be a technical glitch or something I thought they must have stopped posting.

Whatever. Carantoc, I had assumed that you could understand the logic relating to indemnities. I guess in this case I was way off base. Of course Pfizer is making money. That's what companies do. If they didn't have indemnities they wouldn't bother, and probably infact 'couldn't' release any vaccines.

I am really really worried that I have to breakdown really simple concepts. Now I remember why I have added you to the ignore list.

Adios and feel free to add me to the list.

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lotofwind said..
The virus has had some very positive outcomes.
Most of the anti vaxer nutters got banned from Seasbreeze.

Yet here we are, 3 pages in.

How anti-vaxxers stacked a news.com.au pole on vaccination satisfaction


So it seems the pole was primarily spread via antivax groups causing the data being skewed heavily towards the minority.


www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-28/fact-check-news-com-au-vaccine-poll-manipulated/101583964?utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=link&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web

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CH3MTR4IL5 said..

Pcdefender said..
It was reported on Sky News recently

Let me stop you there

www.aap.com.au/factcheck/vaccinated-passengers-havent-been-grounded-over-blood-clot-fears/

These dudes are sadly immune to fact checking.

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airsail said..

How anti-vaxxers stacked a news.com.au pole on vaccination satisfaction


So it seems the pole was primarily spread via antivax groups causing the data being skewed heavily towards the minority.


www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-28/fact-check-news-com-au-vaccine-poll-manipulated/101583964?utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=link&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web

Antivax puppets manipulated by social media to do the bidding of others.

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airsail said..

How anti-vaxxers stacked a news.com.au pole on vaccination satisfaction


So it seems the pole was primarily spread via antivax groups causing the data being skewed heavily towards the minority.


www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-28/fact-check-news-com-au-vaccine-poll-manipulated/101583964?utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=link&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web

I find it amazing how quickly the MSM "fact checkers" and "debunkers" swooped on this.

60,000 respondents to an online poll on a minor news site...and the ABC jump in boots and all to quash it with unsubstantiated allegations..

Hmm...desperation?

Should we discuss the topic of excess deaths yet? or maybe how Pfizer is the most fined company in the history of the earth?
Thats owned and run by those guys who make billions from war?
formulanova what's the salary like being a pharma rep?

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ok said..
...
formulanova what's the salary like being a pharma rep?

I think its pretty good. Its pretty tiring though. You have to keep educating idiots with logic when all they want to see is conspiracies.

I guess conspiracies are much easier for the feeble minded instead of thinking things through, but it does get to me every now and then.

Thanks for asking.

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psychomub said..

airsail said..

How anti-vaxxers stacked a news.com.au pole on vaccination satisfaction


So it seems the pole was primarily spread via antivax groups causing the data being skewed heavily towards the minority.


www.abc.net.au/news/2022-10-28/fact-check-news-com-au-vaccine-poll-manipulated/101583964?utm_campaign=abc_news_web&utm_content=link&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_source=abc_news_web

I find it amazing how quickly the MSM "fact checkers" and "debunkers" swooped on this.

60,000 respondents to an online poll on a minor news site...and the ABC jump in boots and all to quash it with unsubstantiated allegations..

Hmm...desperation?

Or really so obvious that most people would understand it. 'unsubstantiated allegations'... yeah right! The responses tell you all you need to know. You don't even need to make anything up.

I was asked to respond to that poll and never bothered. Clearly people that cared enough did respond to it. Just like internet reviews.

Tell me, if you really disliked something are you more likely to review it badly? If you were okay with it would you bother responding to a poll or are you lazy like me and the other 20 million people?

Humanity is in a state of spiritual bankruptcy.

Accepting the illegal coercion for the material especially when you have that 60 K SUV sitting in your driveway........

Never step out of your moral compass and we can turn this tyranny around.

You are going to witness things in the coming year or so that are going to be hard to handle.

If you are not awake after 3 years of this crap i doubt you ever will be.

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FormulaNova said..
conspiracies

"Anything I don't like is a conspiracy theory... and other stories for the intellectually insecure."
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