Seem happy. Uh huh. Consider once again just what you'd have to sacrifice.

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Mobydisc said..
I've been looking at how the Amish live. Amish generally don't use modern technology or even twentieth century technology. So they don't drive cars and get around with animal drawn carts. If they use electricity it's generated by solar panels and stored in batteries as they won't connect their homes to the electricity grid. They generally farm and run small businesses and usually do well. They are community oriented and look after each other.

Perhaps those looking for an alternative to our consumptive polluting society could look towards living like this. It's hard work for sure but generally they seem pretty happy.

A romantic ideal that has its own set of problems I'm sure. But I do agree with the basic concept. But there are too many elites making way too much money for a consumptive society to change, unless forced to do so by some environmental calamity.
been cruising around the Sydney CBD waterways last few days and fck me, these guys aren't giving this lifestyle up in a hurry. So much wealth in the hands of the few.

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Buster fin said..
Seem happy. Uh huh. Consider once again just what you'd have to sacrifice.

There'd be big sacrifices required to live like the Amish, yes. But there are no big sacrifices to dramatically reduce your consumption by, for example, running an older and smaller car or TV.

As Eppo says, there is a huge amount of conspicuous consumption going on in Sydney that is using up huge amounts of resources for very little benefit.

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eppo said..

Mobydisc said..
I've been looking at how the Amish live. Amish generally don't use modern technology or even twentieth century technology. So they don't drive cars and get around with animal drawn carts. If they use electricity it's generated by solar panels and stored in batteries as they won't connect their homes to the electricity grid. They generally farm and run small businesses and usually do well. They are community oriented and look after each other.

Perhaps those looking for an alternative to our consumptive polluting society could look towards living like this. It's hard work for sure but generally they seem pretty happy.

A romantic ideal that has its own set of problems I'm sure. But I do agree with the basic concept. But there are too many elites making way too much money for a consumptive society to change, unless forced to do so by some environmental calamity.
been cruising around the Sydney CBD waterways last few days and fck me, these guys aren't giving this lifestyle up in a hurry. So much wealth in the hands of the few.

It wont be the upper class thats made to suffer just us economic dweebs to maintain their way of life.

Really Eppo and Chris 249

There is conspicuous consumption going on in every town and state of Australia
Eppo how about the guy on the canal near the beach I like to kite at in WA, near your home who lands his helicopter on top of his 50 foot pleasure boat and has a Miami Vice style speed boat next to it.

Australia is acutely quite egalitarian and the divide between rich and poor is not so bad
Go to places like India and see the vast difference between the wealthy and the poor
Or Cape Town that has one of the highest concentration of McLaren sports cars but there is 50% unemployment and people are really struggling

In the eyes of many in the third world your life styles would be seen as conspicuous consumption even though you see yourself as lower middle class

Never said it doesn't happen where I live Ian. That particular dude is an extreme example for sure. Nice fella though would you believe it.

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IanR said..
Really Eppo and Chris 249

There is conspicuous consumption going on in every town and state of Australia
Eppo how about the guy on the canal near the beach I like to kite at in WA, near your home who lands his helicopter on top of his 50 foot pleasure boat and has a Miami Vice style speed boat next to it.

Australia is acutely quite egalitarian and the divide between rich and poor is not so bad
Go to places like India and see the vast difference between the wealthy and the poor
Or Cape Town that has one of the highest concentration of McLaren sports cars but there is 50% unemployment and people are really struggling

In the eyes of many in the third world your life styles would be seen as conspicuous consumption even though you see yourself as lower middle class

I didn't say or imply a single one of the things you claim
I did. I didn't say inequality wasn't going on in
many towns, or that many other countries were not worse, and to be frank I'm not lower middle class.

The point is that many people in Sydney and elsewhere can lower their consumption dramatically without actually suffering.

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IanR said..
Really Eppo and Chris 249

There is conspicuous consumption going on in every town and state of Australia
Eppo how about the guy on the canal near the beach I like to kite at in WA, near your home who lands his helicopter on top of his 50 foot pleasure boat and has a Miami Vice style speed boat next to it.

Compared to what happens in Sydney, a 50 footer is NOT "conspicuous consumption" but something pretty run-of-the-mill. As an example, two days ago in Pittwater the 82 foot (IIRC) Emma was moored off Sand Point. In the '70s she was the biggest private yacht in Australia.

Within 200 metres of her were the 170ft 52m Mischief, the 121ft/37m Masteka II, the 118ft/36m Quantum, some pissy little 89ft/27 metre runaboat, and another boat of the same size. They all made Emma look small - and the day before across the other side of Pittwater Lang Walker had his "little" boat, the 37m/120ft Kokomo II. I don't know where his 190 footer was.

The weird thing is that after a week of sailing around Sydney, a city I left about eight years ago, I was getting so used to vast boats that for some time, I didn't realise the 89 footer was much bigger than 50. These holidays, a 36 footer was quite a small boat in most overnight anchorages. So the scale of conspicuous consumption around Sydney IS incredible, and unparalleled in our history. We can easily scale back consumption without suffering.