^^^ And without it, imagine the loss in taxes for the government. Are they actually better off by handing the money out and keeping the economy ticking over?

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hilly said..
The taxes to pay for this will be frightening. I bet all those ripping it off now will be the first to whinge when GST goes up to 15 to 20%. Oh well enjoy while you can.

Spot on, my buisnesses cafe's are heavily hit, not enough pressure has been put on banks to halt payments, if this was done the demand for assistance
Wouldn't be so heavy, which in turn would reduce the debt everyone has to pay for a decade at least,

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Harrow said..
^^^ And without it, imagine the loss in taxes for the government. Are they actually better off by handing the money out and keeping the economy ticking over?

Looking at you. encouraging your kids to rort the system, as bad as the pig in trough politicians you call out. pot black.

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hilly said..
Looking at you. encouraging your kids to rort the system, as bad as the pig in trough politicians you call out. pot black.

1. When did I call out the politicians?
2. How are my kids rorting the system? They qualify for the payment just like everyone else that will get it, and not through any sneaky loop holes or anything. They are adults, and they now have no income as a direct result of the coronavirus.

We live in a society that has a set of rules for paying tax and people that receive welfare. The amount of tax I pay is a result of the set of rules that define the welfare system. What is the reason my kids shouldn't collect the amount that the elected government has deliberately decided that they should get? I'll be paying my share of tax to cover it.

Is the JobSeeker payment fair? Is it fair I pay such a high marginal rate of tax?

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Harrow said..

hilly said..
Looking at you. encouraging your kids to rort the system, as bad as the pig in trough politicians you call out. pot black.

1. When did I call out the politicians?
2. How are my kids rorting the system? They qualify for the payment just like everyone else that will get it, and not through any sneaky loop holes or anything.

We live in a society that has a set of rules for paying tax and people that receive welfare. The amount of tax I pay is a result of the set of rules that define the welfare system. What is the reason my kids shouldn't collect the amount that the elected government has deliberately decided that they should get?

Is the JobSeeker payment fair? Is it fair I pay such a high marginal rate of tax?

It is still wrong. Going to cost us a fortune. Do not complain when taxes go up.

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hilly said..
It is still wrong. Going to cost us a fortune. Do not complain when taxes go up.

I don't know exactly why the government decided to give a minimum of $750/wk, even to those who were earning less than that before they lost their jobs, but it was no accident, it was a deliberate decision. I can only guess that treasury did their numbers and figured this was the amount that gave the best balance between increasing debt and stopping the economy from crashing.

You seem to disagree with their decision. I have no idea if they got it right or not. I've never received any form of government welfare, and probably never will, but I'll continue to happily pay my taxes as I always have, half of which goes to supporting welfare payments.

Its not so much the taxes going up its when you need 50 bucks to buy a loaf of bread. And do not think it cannot happen as its happened in other countries before.


www.upi.com/Archives/1990/01/08/Argentinas-record-inflation-in-1989/1808631774800/

Just because your kids qualify for it, doesn't mean they will actually receive it. Entirely up to the employer.

First off the employer has to register the employee for jobkeeper, there is no rule saying they have to. For casuals they might just say "sorry no more work, your out"

Second they need to have paid the employee $750 a week for the month of April. For most casuals this means the employer will have to top up pays by a lot before they get anything back. I'm sure many who are already light on cash may baulk at the thought of throwing out more for a teenage casual who may not even come back.

I was under the impression the 750 per week does not start till May 1st backdated to March 31st so not sure how two of your kids are already receiving it.

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petermac33 said..
I was under the impression the 750 per week does not start till May 1st backdated to March 31st so not sure how two of your kids are already receiving it.

Doesn't the employer pay it upfront, effective from the end of March, and then claim it. Seems my kids' employers have started to pay it to them, (so they tell me), and would now have to claim it from the government.

Looks like you are correct.

www.news.com.au/finance/work/at-work/jobkeeper-australia-shop-owners-blunt-texts-to-employee-over-1500-payment/news-story/6baa02a00fd068643d6e4f0dd3a02292

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petermac33 said..
Its not so much the taxes going up its when you need 50 bucks to buy a loaf of bread. And do not think it cannot happen as its happened in other countries before.


www.upi.com/Archives/1990/01/08/Argentinas-record-inflation-in-1989/1808631774800/

Peter, please explain exactly what it was in Argentina that created high levels of inflation and why we will see the same here in Australia.

If you are just asserting that high inflation can happen anywhere, yes, it is true. If you are arguing that its likely to happen here, you haven't given any information why.

Handing out large amounts of money with little or no labor in return is surely a recipe for a banana republic.

That said i think the powers that be have such a handle on things that they can create deflation or inflation through their control of the markets etc.

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petermac33 said..
Handing out large amounts of money with little or no labor is surely a recipe for a banana republic.

That said i think the powers that be have such a handle on things that they can create deflation or inflation through their control of the markets etc.

Okay, Peter, what is a banana republic? Clearly its a term you have heard, but it sounds like you really don't understand what it means.

Go on, have a stab at it, and see if you can tell me what a banana republic is.

Then once you have that one right, see if you can tell me why increasing the money supply would create a banana republic, I would be absolutely amazed!

Its hard discussing anything with someone who just regurgitates word for word what he reads and watches on his reality box.

Argentina inflation was 5000 percent. How am I supposed to know the reason for this?

It looks like artificial intelligence is posting your responses such is your absolute adherence to mainstream.

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petermac33 said..
Handing out large amounts of money with little or no labor in return is surely a recipe for a banana republic.

That said i think the powers that be have such a handle on things that they can create deflation or inflation through their control of the markets etc.

In this case it is temporary, and the idea is too keep the boat moving for a little while so that everyone can get back into it in a few months and start rowing again without it having sunk in the meantime. What's the best way to do it? I've no idea, but better to do something than nothing, I think.

We are not a banana republic, although we have become dependent on the export of only a few commodities and it would be good for us to diversify.

And yes, Harrow is right. This is a temporary measure and the way it has been delivered (a retrospective payment) makes the employer carry the risk of productivity. ie the employer has to foot the bill for the $1500/fortnight for four weeks before the payment is received. This can be a high risk period (this month) for the employer because; if an employee with more than one employer acts fraudulently and tells both employers they wish to nominate for JobKeeper; and then only one employer actually gets the payment; the employer that doesn't get the payment could potentially lose out. This is why employers may push the hours of some casual employees up to meet the $1500/fortnight minimum over the next few weeks. I'm of the same opinion as you Harrow, I don't know of a better way to motivate employers to retain employees.

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petermac33 said..
Its hard discussing anything with someone who just regurgitates word for word what he reads and watches on his reality box.

Argentina inflation was 5000 percent. How am I supposed to know the reason for this?

It looks like artificial intelligence is posting your responses such is your absolute adherence to mainstream.

I would expect you to at least understand what you are saying. It seems I am not the one regurgitating things, as you seem to be doing it without understanding what you are saying. When I was in highschool, we were taught that a banana republic is where an economy relies on one or a very limited number of exports, and is exposed to a crash if suddenly that export gets wiped out, such as a cyclone that wipes out the crop.

I would argue that Australia seems to be on the way to being a banana republic, but increasing the money supply is not what is causing it, so your premise is way off base.

Now, about massive inflation. For you to speculate that it can happen here because it happened in Argentina, I would expect you to at least understand why it happened there and then compare it against here. "How are you supposed to know the reason for this?"...? The same way that we learn that things happen in this world. We observe, we build up theories, and then try and validate them. If they don't fit, we keep going until we find one that can fit and we can validate.

I do find it amazing that you can sit there and bring up topics that you really have no interest in understanding and then claim that another person is just regurgitating things. You don't even show the interest, just the desire to blurt out something that you read somewhere without understanding it.

We could pump billions of dollars into our economy here. We could print it or we could just inject it into the economy. We could add as much as the government wanted, and we could still find that other countries kept up decent exchange rates with us. We could even find that we got deflation depending on other factors.

Inflation generally happens when there is an increase in demand for a good or service that has limited supply. Lets look at petrol and diesel at the moment. There appears to be a bucket load of it on the market at the moment as oil producing countries are all worried that their income stream is slowing to a trickle, so they want to keep selling as much as they can to take at least some profit. There is so much, and demand has slowed dramatically, that there is an oversupply.

What is happening to the price? Well, that's pretty clear, its falling.

If we pumped trillions of dollars into the economy and people just hoarded it in the bank, there would be no inflation. If the USD exchange rate stayed the same, and we still imported the same products using the USD, there would be no inflation.

PM33, maybe you can try to understand these things? Its not rocket science, and there aren't puppet masters behind everything. Its pretty logical how these things work. If they can teach 15 year old kids this stuff, why does it seem so hard to understand.

If you haven't noticed the enquiring minds of teenage kids, you haven't been in the right classes.

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FormulaNova said..

petermac33 said..
Its hard discussing anything with someone who just regurgitates word for word what he reads and watches on his reality box.

Argentina inflation was 5000 percent. How am I supposed to know the reason for this?

It looks like artificial intelligence is posting your responses such is your absolute adherence to mainstream.

I would expect you to at least understand what you are saying. It seems I am not the one regurgitating things, as you seem to be doing it without understanding what you are saying. When I was in highschool, we were taught that a banana republic is where an economy relies on one or a very limited number of exports, and is exposed to a crash if suddenly that export gets wiped out, such as a cyclone that wipes out the crop.

I would argue that Australia seems to be on the way to being a banana republic, but increasing the money supply is not what is causing it, so your premise is way off base.

Now, about massive inflation. For you to speculate that it can happen here because it happened in Argentina, I would expect you to at least understand why it happened there and then compare it against here. "How are you supposed to know the reason for this?"...? The same way that we learn that things happen in this world. We observe, we build up theories, and then try and validate them. If they don't fit, we keep going until we find one that can fit and we can validate.

I do find it amazing that you can sit there and bring up topics that you really have no interest in understanding and then claim that another person is just regurgitating things. You don't even show the interest, just the desire to blurt out something that you read somewhere without understanding it.

We could pump billions of dollars into our economy here. We could print it or we could just inject it into the economy. We could add as much as the government wanted, and we could still find that other countries kept up decent exchange rates with us. We could even find that we got deflation depending on other factors.

Inflation generally happens when there is an increase in demand for a good or service that has limited supply. Lets look at petrol and diesel at the moment. There appears to be a bucket load of it on the market at the moment as oil producing countries are all worried that their income stream is slowing to a trickle, so they want to keep selling as much as they can to take at least some profit. There is so much, and demand has slowed dramatically, that there is an oversupply.

What is happening to the price? Well, that's pretty clear, its falling.

If we pumped trillions of dollars into the economy and people just hoarded it in the bank, there would be no inflation. If the USD exchange rate stayed the same, and we still imported the same products using the USD, there would be no inflation.

PM33, maybe you can try to understand these things? Its not rocket science, and there aren't puppet masters behind everything. Its pretty logical how these things work. If they can teach 15 year old kids this stuff, why does it seem so hard to understand.

If you haven't noticed the enquiring minds of teenage kids, you haven't been in the right classes.

Good answer FN

I wonder what the motivations are for those who clearly lack basic understanding to post relentlessly?

Hey FN, there will be inflation as a side effect of devaluation due to the printing of additional fiat currency and also as a result of exchange rates devaluing the $AU against the $US , how much? we don't know yet. Certainly lower energy costs should help reduce increases in price.

Try and buy silver at the moment FN. There is a huge demand for it but the price is stable. Tip - its kept artificially low.

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petermac33 said..
Its hard discussing anything with someone who just regurgitates word for word what he reads and watches on his reality box.

Argentina inflation was 5000 percent. How am I supposed to know the reason for this?

It looks like artificial intelligence is posting your responses such is your absolute adherence to mainstream.

Thank god we live in a socialist country!

Shame that the Venezuelans were prevented from achieving this goal!

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Paddles B'mere said..
Hey FN, there will be inflation as a side effect of devaluation due to the printing of additional fiat currency and also as a result of exchange rates devaluing the $AU against the $US , how much? we don't know yet. Certainly lower energy costs should help reduce increases in price.

Will we continue to be devalued against the USD if they are also printing money? At the end of the day its a comparison, so if everyone is doing it, someone just compares what they think is the real value across the currencies.

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petermac33 said..
Try and buy silver at the moment FN. There is a huge demand for it but the price is stable. Tip - its kept artificially low.

Nah, its just a market created by people that think they can eat it when they run out of food in hard times.

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petermac33 said..
Try and buy silver at the moment FN. There is a huge demand for it but the price is stable. Tip - its kept artificially low.

Huh, I just re-read that. If there is a huge demand for it, how is it kept artificially low?

To do that in a market, someone must keep supplying more silver or the price would increase.

What would be the end goal to keeping the price low? There is no reason I can see.

Do you have a suggestion as to why this would be?

Because you do not see a reason does not mean there is not one.

The fact is the price is being suppressed - period.

@FN ................. yes, because the exchange rate drop is not just about devaluation of our currency and is also market driven and a measure of confidence in our economy by the rest of the world.

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Paddles B'mere said..
@FN ................. yes, because the exchange rate drop is not just about devaluation of our currency and is also market driven and a measure of confidence in our economy by the rest of the world.

but in this case, we are comparing against the USA.They no doubt keep some certain value, but their current handling of Covid19 is less than sterling, so do we necessarily look that bad in comparison?

At the end of the day, it will be driven by the market, and guesses about what financial people think is going to happen. It doesn't always mean down though.

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petermac33 said..
Because you do not see a reason does not mean there is not one.

The fact is the price is being suppressed - period.

but you have failed to even suggest how they are doing it, let alone why. Then you would have to ask who?

How are they doing it? What is the big demand for silver that you imagine that is not resolved by digging it out of the ground?

You don't get the easy out of just saying 'because you think so'. Surely there must be some logic?

ok FN - there is no waiting period to buy silver around the world.