I think Germany has it right. Australia is stuck in the wrong mindset. It's a mindset based on punitive measures rather than any regard for common sense.

Roads like the Hume Freeway should have far higher speed limits or unlimited speed in my opinion.

Here's an Australian's perspective.



Here is an even more interesting perspective.

the hume? plenty of large marsupials unlike germany that arent compatibile with high speed.

and berfore you say the stuart highway..
it's got not a lot of vegitation on each side and you can see for ages.

and most people dont travel that much faster anyway because it is no faster because you just have to stop for fuel more often

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myusernam said..

and most people dont travel that much faster anyway because it is no faster because you just have to stop for fuel more often

That's right. And drag goes up with the square of speed. 10% increase in speed = 20% increase in drag, work = force X distance that's 20% more fuel burnt. We've only got so much of it left.

We need self-driving cars that pool together in conga lines going 80 kph. Don't worry about the 20 minutes extra to get home, you'l be on the internet wherever you are.

In Germany the autobahns have many lanes with different speed zones. Here we are lucky if we have two lanes each way.

Its not compatible. Imagine someone doing 160kmh coming up to someone in the left lane doing 80kmh, and the person on the left thinks they should overtake the person in front of them who is doing 78kmh. It wouldn't work.

I like driving at the speed limit, but there are terrible drivers out there even at that speed. The one's that seem to be noticeable are the ones that will do whatever everyone else is doing plus 10kmh, AND they don't seem to be observant or careful.

The state the Hume freeway is in, you'd probably get airborne if you hit some of the bumps at high speed..

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dan111984 said..
The state the Hume freeway is in, you'd probably get airborne if you hit some of the bumps at high speed..

If you want thrills in motor cars get a go cart, unregistered WRX, whatever, and go proper racing on a circuit. You'd get more thrills per litre of leftover fossil fuel than you'd ever get by flying to Germany for a solo blast in the fast lane.

The only benefit of the autobahn I suppose is that you'll remain blissfully unaware of how skilful a driver you really are.

I have to agree with the main point of the video though; we are more aware when we are not forever concentrating on our speed (while looking away from the road) and/or on cruise control.

And call me crazy but awareness seems to me the most important factor when driving a car.

There seems to be a certain speed where you become far, far more alert and conscious of actually driving a car, rather than just being a passenger. And that speed seems to be about 10% above the speed limit.

I'll add, because I am adamant about it, people should drive at 50 or less in a 50 zone. The opposite becomes true in those conditions.

I shat myself on the Stuart highway just out if Katherine on a rare bend. Coworker opened up a modified wrx and we came across a ute loping along at 70 ( in the same direction). We had to hit the picks and it was though he was coming from the other direction (speed difference between us and them).

I daresay this isn't an issue on autobahn with multiple lanes and seperated freeways for direction. Stuart highway Hume etc still single Lane with a dotted line in the middle. Soft edges, pot holes, bitumin over dirt not paved concrete. Really bono I don't think you have think this through

Lived in Germany and 80% of my driving was autobahn related
My thinking is at 110 klms an hour your just not concentrated at 150 plus you are
Those that use the fast lane just leave an overtaking indicated constantly
If your in the fast lane and they're galloping towards you they give a little flash from a good distance back, giving you time to get into a middle lane allowing them to pass
The quality of roads and imho drivers are in a different class too
Middle France has some of the best and quietest roads where you can safely give your care a good clear out but you have to be aware of the cops
The autobahn is still policed and isn't a race track
Cops had 911 porche turbos when I was there

Amazing. I have a better car than you, and I am a better driver than you, so I can drive as fast as I like.

My memory of driving on autobahns and autoroutes is trying to pass at 180+ and being mown down with horns and flashing lights by the clowns doing over 200 in the left lane.

Even if it really did work the way it is portrayed, the Hume is only two lanes. Autobahns are at least three.

As for, "I concentrate better at 150 than I do at 110." Really? You can't pay attention to what you're doing for a couple of hours at 100-110 so you want to drive faster? That'll fix it.

So the duetchenschnowzers are better drivers than Borry? get a mullet up ya

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FormulaNova said..

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Imagine someone doing 160kmh coming up to someone in the left lane doing 80kmh,

it is more like you are doing 160 km/h in the fast lane and someone comes at 220+ km/h. You have very little time to get out of the way

other than this I have nothing else to add to this debate

No it's not.

Not practical here , far to many changes to be made to make it happen.
Drive in any rural area, no way I would drive at the speeds they do elsewhere.

In recent years I have found it largely impossible to maintain posted speeds simply because everyone seems to drive under the limit these days. There's no point in higher speed limits and no point in faster cars as Australians have already reached the peak of what they can cope with on the roads. The only worse drivers I have encountered are New Zealanders - jay-zus those guys are dangerous!

On the Stuart highway (actually all NT roads) there is also another problem.....Road kill, not that you hit it but its the eagles that eat and pick at it..... If you do more than 140kmh the eagle doesn't have time to hear your car and launch itself then flying over you traveling along.
More than 140kmh the eagle is at windscreen height goes through your windscreen, it doesn't kill it but makes it Fkn angry...... Just imagine a 2m wide angry eagle, naggy wife and a couple of screaming kids all inside that car at the same time all traveling down the road @ 140kmh and to top it off a couple of hundred kliks from anywhere.

No it hasn't happened to me but it did to a guy I once worked with.

There are many angles to this, but in my opinion, we could safely increase the speed limit to 130km/h on roads such as the Hume Freeway, especially those perfect concrete sections with very long sweeping bends and straights that go for many kilometres.

Not a worry at all.

The only difference that would make is to reduce fatigue related deaths.

In my opinion, opposition to such conservative measures is totally unfounded in any sense.

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Adriano said...

Not a worry at all.

The only difference that would make is to reduce fatigue related deaths.

And increase high speed trauma related deaths...

Really? Did you know that in the NT, there were more deaths in the six months before the unlimited speed trial began than in the six months after?

If we could reduce overall deaths by fatigue related deaths reducing far more than speed related deaths increasing wouldn't everyone support that?

Really, let's be honest. On a road like the smooth wide concrete sections of Hume Freeway, raising the speed limit to 130km/h would have no effect on speed related deaths in the long term. In fact because drivers would be more alert, rather than half asleep in cruise control at 110km/h, I believe deaths from speed related causes would in fact FALL.

The speed limit has been the same for decades. That doesn't make sense in itself.

I think it's partly Australia's isolation that leads to our timidity and lack of trust in drivers.

The only thing that is scarier than our country roads as they currently are, is our country roads with everyone trying to do 150 km/hr +...

Maybe the Hume is different, but I'd hazard a guess it is an exception, not the rule.

Fact is your energy in a crash is related to the square of the velocity. A small increase in speed results in a much higher overall energy, and therefore more carnage.

If you're feeling fatigued and not paying attention at 110, I'd suggest pulling over for a break more often and a better nights sleep. It isn't that hard...

Can't say I've ever heard of a crash in Australia like this one on the autobahn:

http://gigapica.geenstijl.nl/2011/11/three_killed_in_52vehicle_pile.html

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Adriano said..
There are many angles to this, but in my opinion, we could safely increase the speed limit to 130km/h on roads such as the Hume Freeway, especially those perfect concrete sections with very long sweeping bends and straights that go for many kilometres.

Not a worry at all.

The only difference that would make is to reduce fatigue related deaths.

In my opinion, opposition to such conservative measures is totally unfounded in any sense.

How would you cope with vehicles coming into conflict at different speeds? It's already a nightmare at 110. How do you think it is going to magically become less of a problem at 130?

I think I read somewhere that the low fatality rates on German Autobahns was more a product of faster response times to accidents than them actually being safer.

As Thinkaboutit's story above shows, what can you really do when you are doing 200kmh and the people in front of you have had an accident and are stopped?

Even if you are driving a car that has brake performance to match this, what about the guy behind you that doesn't see your excellent reflexes in time and plows into you?

I just don't think the driving culture in Australia at the moment is up to it.

You need a completely different mentality to drive on European high speed roads. Too many Australian drivers, aren't concerned or aware of what other road users are doing. They're only concerned about themselves and their "rights".

I was blown away by the way, the average euro drive is thinking about overall traffic flow, it's a cooperative effort to make it the best for everybody. The best example is the way the truckies flash their headlights when the truck passing them has sufficient room to pull in front of them. Doesn't he;p the truckies much, but it frees up the overtaking lane for other road users.

Maybe with some good education, higher speed could be gradually introduced, but it would take a lot of adjustment.

Even officialdom would need a shake up. I'm not sure about other states, but here in WA, the lead on road to a 110km/hr freeway has anything from 60km/hr to 90km/hr speed limit, a very short merging section, where it changes to 110. To safely merge you need to be doing the same speed as those on the freeway, you have to plant your foot to achieve this, and if the driver in front is a bit slow, everything jams up.

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rod_bunny said..
http://www.msn.com/en-au/motoring/news/the-australian-overtake…-and-why-we-shouldn’t-be-proud-of-it/ar-AAkypd0?li=AAgfYrD

An excellent article. In summary, Europe and in particular Germany places trust in drivers and in turn a cooperative driving culture exists.

In Australia, the authorities treat drivers as potential murders in waiting and so an adversarial driving culture has developed on that perceived mistrust.

The Australian Overtake is a classic example of drivers who don't give a stuff.

Decrepit I agree completely - it's about cooperative driving culture - or lack of it in Australia. Education and public awareness would take time.

Without question, the wrong approach to every road safety issue is to scream SPEED KILLS.

I want to come in from a different angle, if I may. My question to those who wanted higher speed, I would want to know "What is your hurry ?"

You want to get to the office meeting half an hour sooner ? But I bet you will invariably leave home half an hour later because you know you can make it up on speed alone. In a hurry to meet someone over a cup of coffee ? I would rather start half an hour earlier, and take half an hour longer to get there. I am very certain that the cup of coffee will still be there.

I believe we are compressing our lives into closer intervals, and everyone expects us to do more, sooner, faster, but not necessarily better.

I just wish the feckers could do close to the speed limit now. Spend a lot of the 280k trip to my weekend escape doing 20 to 50 kph under posted limits.

110 is my vehicle's maximum speed anyway, and it ain't pleasant

Totally agree with Bono...
where the roads are suitable we should have higher posted speed limits (130kph would be a good start )
from my experience driving in Europe the people are aware and constantly looking for what's going on around them ... ... they take driving seriously.here we have been so dumbed down people are basically asleep at the wheel.....daydreaming.
The number of times I have come up behind someone in the right hand lane ( usually they are doing 95 by their speedo meaning 90 true speed ) I sit behind the for kilometres then suddenly they notice you there and they quickly indicate and change lanes but for the last 5 min they were oblivious.

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harry potter said..
>>>> then suddenly they notice you there and they quickly indicate and change lanes but for the last 5 min they were oblivious.

In Europe they just wouldn't have been there, as soon as you're clear of the vehicle being overtaken you pull over, there's just no excuse for sitting in the outside lane for no reason. Even if there's a car up ahead that's slower than you and a car coming up behind even faster, if you can pull over and let him pass before you catch up to the vehicle ahead you do so.
A lot of drivers here will stay in the outside lane no matter how slowly they're overtaking a line of traffic, and make every body else wait. To the opposite extreme, drivers will come up behind you doing well over the speed limit and aggressively sit right on your bumper, when it's obvious you'll be past in a few seconds. I guess they've just got in the habit of having to hassle people to move over.

This is exactly what is wrong with Australian drivers.
Dont travel in the fast lane! Move over, look before you move into the fast lane, check your bloody mirrors for approaching faster cars if you are in the fast lane. FFS!

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/three_killed_in_52vehicle_pile.html

Ruddy amateurs

Three killed in a 52 car pile-up!

Those Germans need better training.

An accident of that size on our Great Northern goat track, or the Kwinana and Mitchell freeways would have a score of dozens.



stephen