I would like some inputs on this issue, please. My new tenants asked for them to be installed, but I am reluctant to comply because
* Cost
* It itself can be a safety issue in a major house fire if all windows have them. Is it true that one of the windows must be left without a screen ? If so, wouldn't that window be targeted in a burglary?
* Approximately how much ?

Thank you kindly.

No idea on cost but yes they can't be on all the windows (fire regs)
So really, they are so you can have a window open and not have it too easy for a burglar. They are not to ensure you have a fortress.

Trouble is you really need to research who does the security mesh attached to the frame not just inserted in a U-channel. I saw a dog rip a so-called security screen out of a sliding door to get inside when scared of thunder. If a rottie can do that with his teeth, one kick from a bloke and he's in.

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Mark _australia said..
No idea on cost but yes they can't be on all the windows (fire regs)
So really, they are so you can have a window open and not have it too easy for a burglar. They are not to ensure you have a fortress.

Thank you Mark_Straya. It is a sad state of affair that people are looking for ways to get that extra level of security, albeit a false sense of security in some way when one of the windows is not secured. I knew of a case in July when a woman and her baby were trapped within in a house fire. An off duty cop and an Iraqi refugee on his way to work passed by, and worked together to smash the security screen to save them.

I'm getting my whole house done in stainless mesh for $4500. The cheaper diamond mesh would have been $2600.

Security screens won't stop someone getting in but they do have a significant deterrent value. If you make it an effort to break in the crook will look over the fence and rather break into the neighbour's house because he can see the door has been left open. Crooks are inherently lazy which is why they steal.

Each state has different regulations on what level of security you're obligated too provide for rentals . I think it's normally deadbolts on the doors and window locks. And I'm not aware of leaving one window without a screen in case of fire or whatever. That kind of defeats the purpose doesn't it?

A cheap option is the cheap diamond mesh across the front doors and windows. Create the appearance of security. Generally screens are better value than alarms and CCTV. No point having an alarm or ****ty footage that goes off after they're inside.

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Chris6791 said..
Crooks are inherently lazy which is why they steal. Each state has different regulations on what level of security you're obligated too provide for rentals . I think it's normally deadbolts on the doors and window locks. And I'm not aware of leaving one window without a screen in case of fire or whatever. That kind of defeats the purpose doesn't it?

I did try to Google for security screens regulations regarding whether one of the windows needs to be unsecured, but all I ever did get was a whole lot of companies trying to sell their ware. Years ago, I did seriously look at such issue and the salesman told me that indeed a window needs to be unsecured. Mark_Straya also confirmed as such.

Can you ask your installer about it. please ?

Regarding crooks being lazy. Apparently, in nights, or even days, when the weather is really crappy, like wet and cold, less crimes such as house berglary were committed. I suppose they are just whimps looking for low hanging fruits ?

So they moved in as the place was nice, rent is reasonable, landlord is a nice chap????

give them 3 options,

1/tell them to move out and find a place with screens fitted

2/tell them yes you will fit screens and put the rent up $10 a week

3/tell them they can arrange to have screens fitted at their cost and the screen will not be removed when they move out.

4/fit the screens at your cost, happy tenant is a good tenant (and they keep screwing you over for every little thing)

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Jupiter said...

Chris6791 said..
Crooks are inherently lazy which is why they steal. Each state has different regulations on what level of security you're obligated too provide for rentals . I think it's normally deadbolts on the doors and window locks. And I'm not aware of leaving one window without a screen in case of fire or whatever. That kind of defeats the purpose doesn't it?

I did try to Google for security screens regulations regarding whether one of the windows needs to be unsecured, but all I ever did get was a whole lot of companies trying to sell their ware. Years ago, I did seriously look at such issue and the salesman told me that indeed a window needs to be unsecured. Mark_Straya also confirmed as such.

Can you ask your installer about it. please ?

Regarding crooks being lazy. Apparently, in nights, or even days, when the weather is really crappy, like wet and cold, less crimes such as house berglary were committed. I suppose they are just whimps looking for low hanging fruits ?

My installation is a few weeks away but I'll try and remember. Though I'm 99.99% it's an urban myth. I did a search as well and couldn't find anything to substantiate it. There would be Australian Standards regarding their manufacture and design but I can't find anything about leaving an opening without a screen.

Your state consumer protection website will have the security requirements for rentals, or it will be in legislation, in WA it's the Residential Tenancies Act I think.

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Chris6791 said...
I'm getting my whole house done in stainless mesh for $4500. The cheaper diamond mesh would have been $2600.

Security screens won't stop someone getting in but they do have a significant deterrent value. If you make it an effort to break in the crook will look over the fence and rather break into the neighbour's house because he can see the door has been left open. Crooks are inherently lazy which is why they steal.

Each state has different regulations on what level of security you're obligated too provide for rentals . I think it's normally deadbolts on the doors and window locks. And I'm not aware of leaving one window without a screen in case of fire or whatever. That kind of defeats the purpose doesn't it?

A cheap option is the cheap diamond mesh across the front doors and windows. Create the appearance of security. Generally screens are better value than alarms and CCTV. No point having an alarm or ****ty footage that goes off after they're inside.

I had to remove all my stainless screens. They were part of a council reg for fire when building. I'm beachside and they caused bad galvanic corrosion on the aluminium frames and also door locks. Make sure the ones you get address that issue. I've had no dramas since removing the stainless.
Security screens are a deterrent but all can be quickly passed if you know how

There are inside quick release mechanisms, it's necessary not just for escape but to swing the screen out to clean the window.
Sounds like a lot of money, perhaps a security alarm system and service would be cheaper.

The one window left bare is only if you are covering the whole opening. eg: over the sliding open section and the fix panel of glass. If you are only covering the sliding section then you can cover them all.

For what the ali screens such as crimsafe and invisiguard are they are not worth the price tag. They take 20mins max to knock up on a bench.

Also, you spend 800 or more on a nice new security door or window but don't cover the fixed glass panel next to it and guess what? Little light finger lucy just smashes the fixed panel. Seen it way to many times.

Just get diamond mesh. If you feel you need to cover the whole windows it will be cheaper.

Also, if someone really wants to get in they will. Screens are by no means secure.

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Craig66 said..
So they moved in as the place was nice, rent is reasonable, landlord is a nice chap????
give them 3 options,1/tell them to move out and find a place with screens fitted
2/tell them yes you will fit screens and put the rent up $10 a week
3/tell them they can arrange to have screens fitted at their cost and the screen will not be removed when they move out.
4/fit the screens at your cost, happy tenant is a good tenant (and they keep screwing you over for every little thing)

That is more or less what I had been thinking, Craig66. Thank you very much.

#1: Hard to be a bastard nowadays, especially in WA. Rents are dropping because of the resource bust. During the boom, tenants queued up, even volunteered to pay more than the advertised rate ! Now, the new tenants even asked for, and received, a $25/week reduction. So this option is out.
#2: That is something I have considered. Thank you.
#3: I doubt they will agree to such a hard bargain.
$4: Happy tenants, good tenants, unhappy landlord Yes, need to know when to draw the line.

By the way, that is 4 options

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LittleFella said..
Just get diamond mesh. If you feel you need to cover the whole windows it will be cheaper.
Also, if someone really wants to get in they will. Screens are by no means secure.

What you said is quite right, LittleFella. Security screens are more of a visual deterrent than a full protection for all seasons. In the days of easily accessible news, home invasion, and the fear of it, is high on the list of many people.

So the diamond mesh is bonded to the glass on the outside ?

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Jupiter said..

Craig66 said..
So they moved in as the place was nice, rent is reasonable, landlord is a nice chap????
give them 3 options,1/tell them to move out and find a place with screens fitted
2/tell them yes you will fit screens and put the rent up $10 a week
3/tell them they can arrange to have screens fitted at their cost and the screen will not be removed when they move out.
4/fit the screens at your cost, happy tenant is a good tenant (and they keep screwing you over for every little thing)

That is more or less what I had been thinking, Craig66. Thank you very much.

#1: Hard to be a bastard nowadays, especially in WA. Rents are dropping because of the resource bust. During the boom, tenants queued up, even volunteered to pay more than the advertised rate ! Now, the new tenants even asked for, and received, a $25/week reduction. So this option is out.
#2: That is something I have considered. Thank you.
#3: I doubt they will agree to such a hard bargain.
$4: Happy tenants, good tenants, unhappy landlord Yes, need to know when to draw the line.

By the way, that is 4 options

Good spotting Jup on the number of options,
Im sticking with 3 as one of them is NOT really an option

No way this can be considered over the top re safety.
With the amount of increased violence (break ins, assault and theft around), better be safe than sorry.

Police never been so busy at the moment dealing with this.
You don't know their circumstances (young or frail women left alone) while parents / carers are out working etc.
Think about that.

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Chris6791 said...

Jupiter said...

Chris6791 said..
Crooks are inherently lazy which is why they steal. Each state has different regulations on what level of security you're obligated too provide for rentals . I think it's normally deadbolts on the doors and window locks. And I'm not aware of leaving one window without a screen in case of fire or whatever. That kind of defeats the purpose doesn't it?

I did try to Google for security screens regulations regarding whether one of the windows needs to be unsecured, but all I ever did get was a whole lot of companies trying to sell their ware. Years ago, I did seriously look at such issue and the salesman told me that indeed a window needs to be unsecured. Mark_Straya also confirmed as such.

Can you ask your installer about it. please ?

Regarding crooks being lazy. Apparently, in nights, or even days, when the weather is really crappy, like wet and cold, less crimes such as house berglary were committed. I suppose they are just whimps looking for low hanging fruits ?

My installation is a few weeks away but I'll try and remember. Though I'm 99.99% it's an urban myth. I did a search as well and couldn't find anything to substantiate it. There would be Australian Standards regarding their manufacture and design but I can't find anything about leaving an opening without a screen.

Your state consumer protection website will have the security requirements for rentals, or it will be in legislation, in WA it's the Residential Tenancies Act I think.

Wouldn't it be within the building code act?

Of course screens or any other security device will not stop a determined burglar, I mean they could use a battering ram to knock down the front door if necessary but that's not the point. The point is to deter them to try somewhere else easier. A crook needs to make a quick, quiet entry, grab some small valuable items like jewelry and electronics and leave quickly, fence it for drug money and get high. Bashing in screens with a mallet or power tools will attract attention, there are easier marks and this won't be attempted unless the house is isolated and unoccupied or they know there is something extremely valuable inside like a pile of cash.
I still think a security alarm and service would be much cheaper or perhaps just allow the tenant to have a dog.

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Beaglebuddy said..

I still think a security alarm and service would be much cheaper or perhaps just allow the tenant to have a dog.

Our police refuse to respond to household alarms [too many false alarms]

Unlike the U.S.A., our security company blokes are not armed and cannot do much to stop a burglary - they usually arrive in time to help arrange for a contractor to temporarily secure the premises for the night and assist with insurance company forms.

Normal practice around my area [so it seems] is for him to be leaving as the police turn up [if they turn up at all]


stephen

if it's not crimsafe, it's not crimsafe....

sorry too much watching tv adds !!!

You can make up a whole screen out of anything that covers the whole window and screws into the surround frame of the whole deal. Pretty straight forward work and I've seen a lot go up lately.
The only downside is if it's diamond mesh and you grab the middle of the frame it's pretty easy to get some nice leverage and pull it out. That's even with the recommended spacings between screws/rivets.

Best option but no way cheapest is roller shutters. When done right they are really solid.

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LittleFella said..
You can make up a whole screen out of anything that covers the whole window and screws into the surround frame of the whole deal. Pretty straight forward work and I've seen a lot go up lately. The only downside is if it's diamond mesh and you grab the middle of the frame it's pretty easy to get some nice leverage and pull it out. That's even with the recommended spacings between screws/rivets. Best option but no way cheapest is roller shutters. When done right they are really solid.

Would DIY get myself into trouble if something goes wrong, eg. people got trapped inside in a house fire ? I hate the damn idea of turning a house into a fortress. But with the society turning into crap because of drugs, people are scared !

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Jupiter said..

LittleFella said..
You can make up a whole screen out of anything that covers the whole window and screws into the surround frame of the whole deal. Pretty straight forward work and I've seen a lot go up lately. The only downside is if it's diamond mesh and you grab the middle of the frame it's pretty easy to get some nice leverage and pull it out. That's even with the recommended spacings between screws/rivets. Best option but no way cheapest is roller shutters. When done right they are really solid.

Would DIY get myself into trouble if something goes wrong, eg. people got trapped inside in a house fire ? I hate the damn idea of turning a house into a fortress. But with the society turning into crap because of drugs, people are scared !

Trouble ???? not unless it was you that was trapped

You have security screens?


No worries, the theives go through the roof.


White van with ladders on the roof and stolen plates, who going to stop a 'tradie'?

Theives arent dumb or lazy

Yep takes zero effort to get in through the roof. Tiled or steel it doesn't matter.

As my dad once said locks only stop honest people.

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Craig66 said..

Trouble ???? not unless it was you that was trapped

Quite true. However, I am thinking of the "epartment of Nanni State". It will have an excuse to throw a book at someone who chose not to follow the 9,989 rules invented by the public servants. These wasteful species are only too happy to make us spend money to make them appear to be busy.

If I were to do it DIY I would do all the windows except one. A front one. Get this one done with a push out escape. They are cyclone rated. Simple push out mech on the inside just push the latch and they swing out by the top. Anyone who works up north wa would have seen them.

You can always find a glazier or security installer who has bulk old diamond mesh window and doors laying out the back from all they customers they have talked into upgrading to mesh. Find out from a scrap dealer how much an ali door is worth for weight and then offer a little more or less per door depending on the guy you speak too. Cut them up into the new size you need and rivet them on. Easy.

You're not going to stop a thief getting in.

The only thing you can do is minimise the time spent in the house finding valuables.

Install a loud security alarm.

When that sucker goes off, they'll want to get out quick smart.

Security camera's that a hard drive based are useless, most steal or destroy the hard drives.

Get a dog, most people with a decent dog don't get robbed unless the robbers know what's inside.

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echunda said...
You have security screens?


No worries, the theives go through the roof.


White van with ladders on the roof and stolen plates, who going to stop a 'tradie'?

Theives arent dumb or lazy

Actually the vast majority of burglars are dumb and lazy. You'll never stop the smart ones but they're the exception rather than the norm.

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echunda said..
You're not going to stop a thief getting in. The only thing you can do is minimise the time spent in the house finding valuables. Install a loud security alarm. When that sucker goes off, they'll want to get out quick smart. Security camera's that a hard drive based are useless, most steal or destroy the hard drives. Get a dog, most people with a decent dog don't get robbed unless the robbers know what's inside.

I do have a security alarm already, echunda. Even with that, some people reckon that won't stop the more experienced crooks. What they will do is to set off the alarm intentionally, and bugger off at a distance to watch if anyone comes to the alarm. After a long wait, if no one comes, they will get in.

Regarding dogs. It depends. One of my ex-tenant did have 2 Staffies within the house while thieves broke in. They got what they wanted, and even kind enough to leave a dog's toy behind My own dog hasn't been put to the test yet, but I suspect he won't be much chop either. He is all muscles but too friendly to everyone

like someone said roller shutters . not only do they deter the druggies from a quick snatch they also assist in regulating the temperature in the house

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echunda said..

Get a dog, most people with a decent dog don't get robbed unless the robbers know what's inside.

No. It's sad to see dogs people have got just to deter burglars. The sort of people who can't stand the thought of losing a few replaceable possessions don't make good dog owners. The dogs never get taken for walks. Half crazy from pacing up and down the backyard. They get belted if they eat a shoe. Never socialised. ( Of course if they were socialised they'd not be a good guard dog). Costs thousands to run a dog also, better off spending the money on a Fort Knox upgrade.

What have you got that's so valuable? Does anybody even buy hot property at a pub anymore? Bunnings would have killed most of the market for stolen goods you'd reckon.