Thinking of getting a solar system for home... We're pretty low energy users - we don't have lot's of gizmos and all that fancy stuff... I think the power we need is enough to run an evap air con and a pool pump... 3 kw???

I know there is tonnes and tonnes of stuff online... and in particular, whirlpool... but I want to hear some thoughts from people I can trust

Can anyone offer any advice or point me to good solar installers/providers in Perth

We had solargain put our 5kw on around 9 months ago. No probs with install or equip we did opt for the top end gear as we dont plan to move. It is expensive to put on but we figured the sooner we do it the sooner we get the benefit. We are big power users and have noticed a huge diffrence in our bills, last years bill usually 650 now $122. We are producing more than we use net, so keen on battery's to keep what we make.

We swapped our globes to led and set the pumps to come on during peak production times its been all good.

I'm going through purchasing an off-grid system now and have had a couple of quotes provided that are miles apart in price. I need to jump on it now as I need to get power to a rural site for my new sustainable office (building designer) but would love another 12 months as there is a new battery development (li-ion) about to come out, although it's been developed for grid-connect systems at this stage.

I've selected an AC/DC system (not the cheapest option) that will work the batteries fairly hard but won't deteriorate them so I can add to them if/when I decide to build a house on the site in the next few years as well. I've also chosen a system that can handle extreme coastal conditions as the office is located in a paddock about 150m from the beach.

Feel free to PM me and I'll give you contact details of a rep that I've found provides great advice and can explain options in layman terms.

When my pool was working it used about 3kw with two pumps running. Look at your pumps and what they consume. I have a 3.5Kw solar system installed by SolarGain. A lot of the price difference between the companies - so I'm led to believe - is in the installation. They did a very good job. Electricity company was useless, had to ring them about 3 times before they switched over and I started getting a tiny rebate for power back to the grid - they are not big fans of solar.

If you have a pool - you should definitely get solar to offset the cost of running it.

Try True Value solar ,they installed a 5 kw system for me about 3 months ago reduced my bill from $320 to around $80 very happy camper will repay itself in about 3 years at current rates .Happy with it so far .I'm in margs so may be cheaper in perth they will quote over the phone

we have had 5.5 kW system installed almost 3 years ago by Infinite Energy. They were great to deal with from the initial quote through to after sales questions and support. The inverter failed after about 1.5 years and Infinite Energy took care of the replacement under warranty, took only few phone calls/emails and we were up and running in few days.

One thing I would emphasize, to get good return on investment is to size your solar system to match your daytime consumption. Don't go too large as the payback is too long - you probably already know this from reading whirlpool.

I've seen a lot of systems where the panels face in all sorts of strange directions. I just don't see how you'd ever get your money back if they face south, but even West and East must be a big compromise, anybody had any experience with this?
I've also seen a few panels almost completely shaded by trees!

One person told me, their installer advised them to go for a big angle, as Winter sun had a higher value than Summer.

When we put ours in several years ago, there was the option of high and low voltage systems. The advantage of the high voltage system is you can use thinner cable between panels and inverter. The disadvantage is the panels are in series and as the panels are a current device, the output of the whole system is limited to the lowest panel, OK if all panels are good and none of them are shaded.
So if you have to have a partially shaded set up, or some panels are at different angles, you'd be better off with a lower voltage parallel system.

So my advise is make sure you get good info, you need an unshaded North facing roof angled between 15 and 30deg for best results.
If they try to tell you different, go with somebody else.

^^^ Decrep, depending on whether you are installing a grid-connect or off-grid, and your consumption use period the angle can vary. I'm looking at a 40deg (North-facing) array as it calculates to the best gain of solar for my use.

This initially was foreign to me as I've been designing houses with 25deg roof pitches for solar for many years.

Agree that you need to talk to the professionals, although be vary wary of past-advice as the best system you can get will be designed for your individual need, otherwise you won't benefit from the best possible option.

B'****. Google is a prety reliable expert
www.solarelectricityhandbook.com/solar-angle-calculator.html

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Sailhack said..
^^^ Decrep, depending on whether you are installing a grid-connect or off-grid, and your consumption use period the angle can vary. I'm looking at a 40deg (North-facing) array as it calculates to the best gain of solar for my use.

This initially was foreign to me as I've been designing houses with 25deg roof pitches for solar for many years.

Agree that you need to talk to the professionals, although be vary wary of past-advice as the best system you can get will be designed for your individual need, otherwise you won't benefit from the best possible option.

40 deg will only be be any good in winter

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SandS said...

40 deg will only be be any good in winter

i just punched Melborne into the calculator and 38 deg is good for Autumn and Spring - 6 months of the year

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SandS said...
40 deg will only be be any good in winter

Not entirely correct - as the solar gain in summer is greater, and the design won't need any AC - I need to maximise the sun's rays in winter. Ideally I should be setting the angle at 50-55deg but chose a happy medium that works for the spring and autumn months too.

If I was installing a grid-connect system I would base it on maximum return (approx 25deg) but as I need a more consistant power supply that will include some heating in winter I need to maximise the winter solar gain. I could also install a solar tracker for the panels so they follow the sun but they aren't yet proven to be economically viable.

As mentioned above - make sure you get good professional advice based on your individual situation in order to get the best system for you.

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adolf said...

SandS said...

40 deg will only be be any good in winter

i just punched Melborne into the calculator and 38 deg is good for Autumn and Spring - 6 months of the year

For my area - 28deg summer, 52deg autumn/spring & 76deg for winter!!! Maybe I should go with a higher angle based on those figures? The advice I got was 55-60 for the best annual average as the longer days and hotter sun in summer don't need the full exposure.

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SandS said..

Sailhack said..
^^^ Decrep, depending on whether you are installing a grid-connect or off-grid, and your consumption use period the angle can vary. I'm looking at a 40deg (North-facing) array as it calculates to the best gain of solar for my use.

This initially was foreign to me as I've been designing houses with 25deg roof pitches for solar for many years.

Agree that you need to talk to the professionals, although be vary wary of past-advice as the best system you can get will be designed for your individual need, otherwise you won't benefit from the best possible option.

40 deg will only be be any good in winter

I'm fairly sue the OP is staying on grid if he's only thinking of a 3Kw system.

But if you're going off grid, you need to maximise for Winter, as the day is much shorter, and there's a lot more cloudy days, (here in Perth anyway). So you need a bigger system that copes with the worst solar conditions. If you have an angle optimised for max year total, you'll either have too much in Summer or not enough in Winter.
Remember if you're off grid, you'll have to figure out some other way to get money for your excess energy.

^^^ Yep, but if the OP is thinking of maybe installing batteries (many are atm) then look at increasing the angle for the most efficient storage. I'm guessing that if pool heating is needed then they will be needing more consistent power in winter too.

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Sailhack said..
>>
For my area - 28deg summer, 52deg autumn/spring & 76deg for winter!!! Maybe I should go with a higher angle based on those figures? The advice I got was 55-60 for the best annual average as the longer days and hotter sun in summer don't need the full exposure.

That sounds more like Southern Tasmania, are you sure?
I've just googled Hobart and got 20 for mid summer and about 70 mid Winter

Are there any management systems that will turn on and off air-conditioning so that any excess can be used for climate control in the house?

I'm not interested in selling back to the grid but when you are on smart power summer days are a real bad time to turn on an air conditioner.

As for winter turning sunshine on the roof into indoor heat will last untill I go to bed, we have electric under slab heating so it's long term warmth.

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Sailhack said..
^^^ Yep, but if the OP is thinking of maybe installing batteries (many are atm) then look at increasing the angle for the most efficient storage. I'm guessing that if pool heating is needed then they will be needing more consistent power in winter too.

So batteries and grid, that only makes sense if your getting less back from synergy than you're paying them?
I'm probably out of touch, we're still on an overly generous feed in tariff.
Stupid government, there was absolutely no need for such a generous payment, now it's had a really bad negative reaction, making electricity more expensive for other uses.

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Sailhack said..
For my area - 28deg summer, 52deg autumn/spring & 76deg for winter!!! Maybe I should go with a higher angle based on those figures? The advice I got was 55-60 for the best annual average as the longer days and hotter sun in summer don't need the full exposure.

Bit confusing as they are calculating from a vertical - I was using horizontal - look at the diagrams below.

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kk said..
Are there any management systems that will turn on and off air-conditioning so that any excess can be used for climate control in the house?

I'm not interested in selling back to the grid but when you are on smart power summer days are a real bad time to turn on an air conditioner.

As for winter turning sunshine on the roof into indoor heat will last untill I go to bed, we have electric under slab heating so it's long term warmth.

I got a Fromius inverter that provides excellent connectivity. In addition I bought some of those wifi power adapters from Aldi, which I managed to control from my computer with a bit of googling. So from that point it wasn't too difficult to cobble together some scripts that turned stuff on and off to maximise the sun.

If I managed to do it. I'm pretty sure that there are some PROFESSIONAL companies/gadgets out there that could sort this out for you with a more PROFESSIONAL system.

I think the feed in price is something like 9c a Kw now but my 9 to 5 usage is like 47c , my thinking is that I could set thermostats to 30 in winter and 18 in summer and though the system would never achieve that, it would make the most of what's on offer from the sun after running the fridge and freezer.

I have had a google on it but frankly the paid adds get in the way of real information I think, is there a better alternative to google thees days?

Some great tools out there to check your panels productivity , sun city solar showed me a google earth app from memory in which it shows the house and panels , zoom in and it shows you the production of each panel on your roof, I've re positioned a couple of roofs to accomadate panels, the fitters mention the void in qualities between brands, I'd be looking to use a buisness that's been around if I was installing

Pugs, We have 3.5 kw system. About 12 months old. So far so good.
Couple of tips I received when choosing supplier.
1: Purchase a good invertor, one that will last distance.

2: Don't get two wrapped up in purchasing the most expensive panels. Reason being, most understand that the shelf life is 10 years +. After that time frame, you may want to look at new panels. And the development of panels progression, will mean, what you have now in efficiency will be obsolete in 10 years or so time.

3: How long you intend to stay at current house. No sense purchasing Solar, if you intend to move in a few years. Just paying for somebody else benefit.

From memory, the most efficient panels were ex South Australia. But, these came with a hefty price tag, compared to other good panels on market.
The price and sales pitch vary wildly. One group indicated I needed two invertors because I have three phase in house. They got dumped quick smart.
I can find the Company that did ours and PM you tomorrow.
Mineral

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kk said...
I have had a google on it but frankly the paid adds get in the way of real information I think, is there a better alternative to google thees days?

Exactly!!!

@Mike - yes please!!

It's a good point re paying for someone else... The house is a keeper... It's a great place to store my hardly-used windsurfing gear

another estimate tool to check is PVWatts: pvwatts.nrel.gov:443/

you can also look at pvoutput.org/outputs.jsp and search for systems in same post code to see how they perform. Plenty of people publish their solar production data so you should find system in your neighbourhood of similar size and orientation.

regarding the correct angle to maximise production: assuming you are installing on your existing roof, you'll probably find the best (cheapest) option is to add more panels to compensate for any inefficiencies in orientation or roof angle. You can ask installers for different options but I believe it is easier and cheaper to simply add panels rather than building a frame to match the ideal angle. The installer should give you all this info including production estimates before you sign.

@kk - there are some devices that allow you to direct self generated power instead of exporting it. For example SMA inverters have the optional multifunctional relay, which can turn appliances on/off based on solar production (I'm not sure if AC would be a good candidate due to possibly frequent on/off cycle). Another option I'm aware of is immersun, which directs excess power to storage hot water. forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/143 is your friend here regarding other options and opinions on financial viability of such systems.

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DaylightDebt said..
... We are big power users and have noticed a huge diffrence in our bills, last years bill usually 650 now $122. ...

Do you mean your quarterly bill is usually $650? This would be close to average in QLD i'd guess, not that big.

I put in 5.6kw with maximum 'coastal corrosion resistance' (~100m to beach) and it cost me about $9000 after rebate.

My bill was approx $2800 per year (family of 4, big house, 2 fridges, small pool and very minimal AC) and is now approx $1200 p/a (with increased A/C use).

On track for 5 year payoff and less if power prices increase.

Solar, Pools, and Air Conditioning go hand in hand.

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Pugwash said..
@Mike - yes please!!

It's a good point re paying for someone else... The house is a keeper... It's a great place to store my hardly-used windsurfing gear

PM sent

PM received, thanks Mike...

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kiteboy dave said..

Do you mean your quarterly bill is usually $650? This would be close to average in QLD i'd guess, not that big.

I put in 5.6kw with maximum 'coastal corrosion resistance' (~100m to beach) and it cost me about $9000 after rebate.

My bill was approx $2800 per year (family of 4, big house, 2 fridges, small pool and very minimal AC) and is now approx $1200 p/a (with increased A/C use).

On track for 5 year payoff and less if power prices increase.

Solar, Pools, and Air Conditioning go hand in hand.

Off topic, but was wondering if you ever planted that bamboo screen - how did that work out?

Like that small minded town in small town US of A, I'm a bit concerned that if Pugwash installs a PV system, there's not going to be enough sunlight left for me.....