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Created by

Shifu > 9 months ago, 29 May 2019

Shifu

QLD

1994 posts

29 May 2019 6:01pm

Trying to determine whether my rafters are hardwood or cypress pine. I chiseled some paint off and here's the result. Chisels easilly and the chips look like other hardwood chips I've seen but...

Edit. Heres a chip.

Craig66

NSW

2466 posts

29 May 2019 6:35pm

What does it smell like?

Imax1

QLD

4926 posts

29 May 2019 6:41pm

Hardwood is hard ( except if it's balsa wood, which is technically a hard wood ) , cypress is soft like pine .
Out of curiosity, why do you need to know ?

Imax1

QLD

4926 posts

29 May 2019 6:46pm

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Craig66 said..
What does it smell like?

If it's fishy smelling , it's out of an old tuna trolling boat .

Imax1

QLD

4926 posts

29 May 2019 6:48pm

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Imax1 said
Out of curiosity, why do you need to know ?

I know , I know , you want to make fins out of it .

FormulaNova

15090 posts

29 May 2019 5:00pm

Try drilling it and if it clogs up the drill or burns or both, its hardwood. At least it is in my house.

Oregon?

Pine is a hard wood. But its a softwood. Its a relatively hard softwood.
Pine is a softwood - but balsa is a hardwood.

So I'm no carpenter but they might wanna know what you're asking and why....

AusMoz

QLD

1510 posts

29 May 2019 7:21pm

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Mark _australia said..
Pine is a hard wood. But its a softwood. Its a relatively hard softwood.
Pine is a softwood - but balsa is a hardwood.

So I'm no carpenter but they might wanna know what you're asking and why....

Thats not confusing at all

Shifu

QLD

1994 posts

29 May 2019 7:41pm

Stress calculations. I want to add a ceiling under my exposed rafters. 50m2. will add about 550kg in weight. if pine it may be too weak. if hardwood im good to go.

Stuthepirate

3591 posts

29 May 2019 7:15pm

Is this another board building thread?

decrepit

12802 posts

29 May 2019 6:33pm

That sounds very simplified to me. The spanning strength of timber isn't just whether it's hard or soft, There's what the grain's doing and the number of knot holes. Curly grain Jarrah is hopeless straight grain oregon is brilliant

Imax1

QLD

4926 posts

29 May 2019 8:38pm

Definitely co carbon

kato

VIC

3513 posts

29 May 2019 8:56pm

Ok
How old is the house?
Whats the span , load and current beam size. The builder wouldn't have gone way over spec. Ie 200x50 F7 might equal 145 x 35 F17
Given your in QL it might be White Cypress .
The painted beam looks like Oregon which was used a lot in the 70-80 cos it was cheap.
You could laminate another beam along side to increase its strength. Nails spaced no more than 2 x Depth.

sn

2775 posts

29 May 2019 7:17pm

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and to really mess with your head - Jarrah is a softwood....

Shifu

QLD

1994 posts

29 May 2019 9:23pm

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kato said..
Ok
How old is the house?
Whats the span , load and current beam size. The builder wouldn't have gone way over spec. Ie 200x50 F7 might equal 145 x 35 F17
Given your in QL it might be White Cypress .
The painted beam looks like Oregon which was used a lot in the 70-80 cos it was cheap.
You could laminate another beam along side to increase its strength. Nails spaced no more than 2 x Depth.

Span is 3.6. Rafter size is 175x50. Spacing is on 900 centres. 80s house. Roof is metal on cement sheet. No isulation so hot as hades in summer and hence why I want to add a ceiling below the rafters.

pepe47

1382 posts

29 May 2019 9:05pm

It looks like white cypress but I can't understand the sheen that seems to reflect the light. Unless someone has painted over laquer.
A sin like overcooking red emperor!

cauncy

8407 posts

29 May 2019 9:40pm

At 900s you'll have to trim out to 450 or 600 to add rondo channell
tbh I'd run a plate around trim out at 450 and put some hangers off original, much better insulation wise due to separation, add a whirly and that pulls 70% concealed heat out also, but if you really want that look get a red book and check your span tables, if I can be arsed I'll dig mine out for you

cauncy

8407 posts

29 May 2019 9:55pm

A175 35 at 3.5 span will take 90 kg m2 at 45 you can see the increase of span, by using larger rondo you can span 900s with minimal trimming , exsposed rafters certainly need excess trimming to take Gyproc. It's much more likely to cracking being flushed up to rafters unless using a starter trim

cauncy

8407 posts

29 May 2019 10:31pm

Here's your material weights

Shifu

QLD

1994 posts

30 May 2019 12:40am

All kinds of awesome! What timber grade was in the span tables. Becoming certain I have F7. Also we are an N2 zone.

ok

NSW

1089 posts

30 May 2019 9:23am

By the title saying hey carpenters it suggests your too tight to employ one with knowledge and skills for the situation.
I suggest getting a professional to look at the job as there may be many points / steps in the job your missing out or not noticing.
Maybe go to the local hardware store ask for a reputable builder or chippy and ask if you could pay them for a few hours of there time to advise on a job.
This will save you lots of time and money in the long run.

myusernam

QLD

6154 posts

30 May 2019 10:31am

you could just use some steel instead. Bit of extra strength when doing a home bodgey never hurt

Shifu

QLD

1994 posts

30 May 2019 6:52pm

A structural engineer is on the case

Craig66

NSW

2466 posts

30 May 2019 6:59pm

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Shifu said..
A structural engineer is on the case

Your over thinking it.....

Just get 5 mates to stand on your roof and jump up and down,

AusMoz

QLD

1510 posts

30 May 2019 7:01pm

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Craig66 said..

Shifu said..
A structural engineer is on the case

Your over thinking it.....

Just get 5 mates to stand on your roof and jump up and down,

He did it last time, now down to 3 mates

kato

VIC

3513 posts

30 May 2019 7:45pm

Looks like you've got all the right info. You could just nail plaster battens up and have a flat raked ceiling. Easy job to do over a weekend

cauncy

8407 posts

30 May 2019 7:46pm

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kato said..
Looks like you've got all the right info. You could just nail plaster battens up and have a flat raked ceiling. Easy job to do over a weekend

or buy a carton and a big fan, fu#k work and enjoy the weekend

cauncy

8407 posts

30 May 2019 7:54pm

if your engineer comes back with a negative, ask him about the use of a stiffing plate, youll need this anyhow if you go with an exsposed rafter, basically if you need or want 50 mm of rafter showing you could put a 90x35 alongside your original 60 mm up and bugle screw that to the rafter add 10 mm gyproc leaves a 50 mm exsposed rafter, trim across on the flat at 450 cc and you can tuck insulation in, if your in a high condensation area make sure youve air flow at the eave and ridge

cauncy

8407 posts

30 May 2019 8:03pm

A quick sketch, you engineer will charge you 4/500$$ for something similar

Shifu

QLD

1994 posts

30 May 2019 10:04pm

Select to expand quote

cauncy said..
if your engineer comes back with a negative, ask him about the use of a stiffing plate, youll need this anyhow if you go with an exsposed rafter, basically if you need or want 50 mm of rafter showing you could put a 90x35 alongside your original 60 mm up and bugle screw that to the rafter add 10 mm gyproc leaves a 50 mm exsposed rafter, trim across on the flat at 450 cc and you can tuck insulation in, if your in a high condensation area make sure youve air flow at the eave and ridge

This is pretty much exactly my plan.

2stubborn2quit

169 posts

30 May 2019 8:05pm

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sn said..

and to really mess with your head - Jarrah is a softwood....

No it is not. Jarrah or Eucalyptus marginata is definitely a hardwood as are all our native large trees in the SW of WA. Hardwoods are defined by their cellular structure not their hardness. But who gives a rats arse.

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sn

Shifu

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cauncy

Shifu

ok

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Shifu

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