I wad told by the installers of my system that storage batteries are not worth it yet and the same view from my electrician.It would also have made no sense to install the panels unless the govt hadn't subsidized it.
Hopefully it lasts and doesnt end up at the tip .

Select to expand quote

kilo54 said..

log man said..

kilo54 said..

Mr Milk said..

kilo54 said..


I, like most, strongly for a good environment. Built an eco friendly house using recycled material. Stackwall, so no outside cladding or interior gyproc. Placed to the South of an evergreen windbreak. A passive solar conservatory on S. side with night curtain, silvered to reflect most of heat. Salad veggies/herbs year round..........analysed stomach parts of crabs from Liverpool bay, dissolving them with HF in solid GOLD crucibles. Found it took 15 years for HALF the pollution in the bay to clear. So in 30 years, 1/4 STILL there! Disgusting.
So, yes, for a clean planet, but this CO2 hysteria is rubbish. Best wishes!

So you're a pom troll. Must be desperate to spend your time shooting the breeze on an Oz windsport website.

Love porn! Do not understand why you call me a troll.
Passed my RSc in 2 years; Permanent Commission from HM the Queen - only 20 a year in GD(P); 5 languages including swahili; bribed my way thru frontier in Central America; spent night on the most active volcano in the Americas, Pacaya volcan; fought off Mau-mau terrs with 9mm when 7 years old; got laid in Guatemala for $3.20 - told I had been OVERCHARGED!
......visit Guatemala Jan, Feb, March - no rain; "Perpetual Spring", 68-75F; hotel $10, wifi, hot water, stove, fridge - beer 20c. Best place I have ever been...... $10/night in the dorm at Semuc Champey; infinity pool on top of hill; drone; STUFFED with Euro-totty!!!!
Built an aerobatic biplane - differential, Frieze ailerons; 2 place; like boats, planes cost a fortune. Silky smooth push -pull controls. Classy.

GW due to Synodic Resonance, the decrease in cloud cover 'cos of less AEROSOLS for cloud to nucleate. (Cosmic Rays too. )
CO2 effect was saturated back at 140ppm.....first 20ppm absorbed 60%; second 20ppm, 60% of 40, etc Getit? and so on.
So smarty, what do you know of Entropy? Whats the square root of minus 25? Feynman's double slit showing 4 times FASTER than light?
Quantum Mechanics baby.......why do plants NOT grow with heavy water?
I tilt my science knowledge against yours.
My family are Drapers who provided the British Sovereign with 500 armed men on 2 occasions. HM the Quenn and HRH Prince Charles (had dinner with him and Minister of UK Defence!) both Drapers and come to dinner with us at least once a year.
We largely funded the exploration of Canada, John Cabot and his sons, 1497-1520.
What you got, eh?

Is this "lord" Moncton?

No, Mark, Lord Balniel, Earl of Crawford, Earl of Belcarres, Chief of the clan Lindsay, Knight of the garter, Lord of the Queen's bedchamber, advisor to her Majesty.
No, not really, though he was/is a friend of the family. Super nice chap. MP for Hertford North at one time.

Julius Nyerere also a family friend, my Mother, British Council, helped him get started, sending him off to Uni in UK.
He is half way to becoming a Saint in the catholic church. "A servant of God." Humble decent man. In the 50s he, a black Nationalist, made my Mum Godmother to his new baby.............
.......after the ceremony, we stayed talking for a bit, then drove home, passing the future President and his family trudging along the road!
"Stop and pick him up" my Mother said. "No, would not do. I am a senior colonial servant and he a Nationalist." my Father..

It makes me weep to see money squandered. To power UK, HALF the country would have to be covered in windmills. Lovely. Or 1/4 with solar panels, and when not windy/dark, NO power.
This BS has to stop. At every level CO2 GW is rubbish.

Science disagrees with you, but Donald Trump agrees. He says wind generators cause cancer. It must be a comfort to have a very stable genius on your side.

Select to expand quote

NotWal said..

kilo54 said..

log man said..

kilo54 said..

Mr Milk said..

kilo54 said..


I, like most, strongly for a good environment. Built an eco friendly house using recycled material. Stackwall, so no outside cladding or interior gyproc. Placed to the South of an evergreen windbreak. A passive solar conservatory on S. side with night curtain, silvered to reflect most of heat. Salad veggies/herbs year round..........analysed stomach parts of crabs from Liverpool bay, dissolving them with HF in solid GOLD crucibles. Found it took 15 years for HALF the pollution in the bay to clear. So in 30 years, 1/4 STILL there! Disgusting.
So, yes, for a clean planet, but this CO2 hysteria is rubbish. Best wishes!

So you're a pom troll. Must be desperate to spend your time shooting the breeze on an Oz windsport website.

Love porn! Do not understand why you call me a troll.
Passed my RSc in 2 years; Permanent Commission from HM the Queen - only 20 a year in GD(P); 5 languages including swahili; bribed my way thru frontier in Central America; spent night on the most active volcano in the Americas, Pacaya volcan; fought off Mau-mau terrs with 9mm when 7 years old; got laid in Guatemala for $3.20 - told I had been OVERCHARGED!
......visit Guatemala Jan, Feb, March - no rain; "Perpetual Spring", 68-75F; hotel $10, wifi, hot water, stove, fridge - beer 20c. Best place I have ever been...... $10/night in the dorm at Semuc Champey; infinity pool on top of hill; drone; STUFFED with Euro-totty!!!!
Built an aerobatic biplane - differential, Frieze ailerons; 2 place; like boats, planes cost a fortune. Silky smooth push -pull controls. Classy.

GW due to Synodic Resonance, the decrease in cloud cover 'cos of less AEROSOLS for cloud to nucleate. (Cosmic Rays too. )
CO2 effect was saturated back at 140ppm.....first 20ppm absorbed 60%; second 20ppm, 60% of 40, etc Getit? and so on.
So smarty, what do you know of Entropy? Whats the square root of minus 25? Feynman's double slit showing 4 times FASTER than light?
Quantum Mechanics baby.......why do plants NOT grow with heavy water?
I tilt my science knowledge against yours.
My family are Drapers who provided the British Sovereign with 500 armed men on 2 occasions. HM the Quenn and HRH Prince Charles (had dinner with him and Minister of UK Defence!) both Drapers and come to dinner with us at least once a year.
We largely funded the exploration of Canada, John Cabot and his sons, 1497-1520.
What you got, eh?

Is this "lord" Moncton?

No, Mark, Lord Balniel, Earl of Crawford, Earl of Belcarres, Chief of the clan Lindsay, Knight of the garter, Lord of the Queen's bedchamber, advisor to her Majesty.
No, not really, though he was/is a friend of the family. Super nice chap. MP for Hertford North at one time.

Julius Nyerere also a family friend, my Mother, British Council, helped him get started, sending him off to Uni in UK.
He is half way to becoming a Saint in the catholic church. "A servant of God." Humble decent man. In the 50s he, a black Nationalist, made my Mum Godmother to his new baby.............
.......after the ceremony, we stayed talking for a bit, then drove home, passing the future President and his family trudging along the road!
"Stop and pick him up" my Mother said. "No, would not do. I am a senior colonial servant and he a Nationalist." my Father..

It makes me weep to see money squandered. To power UK, HALF the country would have to be covered in windmills. Lovely. Or 1/4 with solar panels, and when not windy/dark, NO power.
This BS has to stop. At every level CO2 GW is rubbish.

Science disagrees with you, but Donald Trump agrees. He says wind generators cause cancer. It must be a comfort to have a very stable genius on your side.

Science DOES agree with me, and so does LOGIC and common sense........The Roman and Medieval Warm Periods were times of prosperity. Accepted by all but the badly brain damaged. WHY should our slight warming be any different? You cannot answer.
Warm is good. During the Little Ice Age, the sea at Marseilles in the Med froze. Millions died of cold. How many died from heat in the Warm times? Few.
What makes this particular temp SACRED? Presently about 0.7F warmer than 1850.
(Alarmists like to cheat by going from 1885 AFTER Krakatoa COOLED things for years.)
And CHEAT again by changing paint of temp stations AND cramming them with electronics that give off heat!!!
AND incorrectly siteing them 89% of the time in USA. (see website with photos of heat vents, blacktop etc)

Do you not understand LeChatelier's principle? Systems tend to correct themselves, NOT go runaway. Seawater rarely gets above 30C because the Latent Heat of Vaporisation is so large (540cals/gm).........know what this means? Takes 1 calorie to heat 1gm water 1C, UNTIL it evaporates when it takes 540calories!!!! Getit? Just a bit of a diff, eh?

And, inter alia, NOAA et al say a temp is the average of min and max daily temps. So a day at 10C with 5 minutes of Sun coming out, 25C is warmer to THEM than a day at 16C all day. Is barmy!!! They should continuously record temp, plot graph v time, then INTEGRATE algorithm. (Gives you the area UNDER the graph) ie how much heat in that day.

Never heard Trump say that about wind turbines, but they DO cause health harm and are killing millions of birds and bats every year - the white tailed Hawk (Scandinavia and Germany) will be EXTINCT in 5 years at present rate. well done eco boyos!
AND the FACT is that to change to wind would take Britain to be HALF covered in turbines.

LOOK! Google, for several years studied alt. energy, and concluded that you CANNOT transition to it. Alt, energy supplies so LITTLE extra power - has to make itself AND its replacement before NET producing power..
"Insulating 500 roofs the same cost as a windmill, and saves MORE energy in 2 years than the turbine will in its 25 year life." Wanna build them OR insulate roofs? Hm?
Is dog chasing tail - need lots of energy to make these things; you can never catch up...........In USA, a coal power worker produces 70 TIMES the power an alt. power guy does.

Select to expand quote

kilo54 said..

Mr Milk said..

kilo54 said..


I, like most, strongly for a good environment. Built an eco friendly house using recycled material. Stackwall, so no outside cladding or interior gyproc. Placed to the South of an evergreen windbreak. A passive solar conservatory on S. side with night curtain, silvered to reflect most of heat. Salad veggies/herbs year round..........analysed stomach parts of crabs from Liverpool bay, dissolving them with HF in solid GOLD crucibles. Found it took 15 years for HALF the pollution in the bay to clear. So in 30 years, 1/4 STILL there! Disgusting.
So, yes, for a clean planet, but this CO2 hysteria is rubbish. Best wishes!

So you're a pom troll. Must be desperate to spend your time shooting the breeze on an Oz windsport website.

Love porn! Do not understand why you call me a troll.
Passed my RSc in 2 years; Permanent Commission from HM the Queen - only 20 a year in GD(P); 5 languages including swahili; bribed my way thru frontier in Central America; spent night on the most active volcano in the Americas, Pacaya volcan; fought off Mau-mau terrs with 9mm when 7 years old; got laid in Guatemala for $3.20 - told I had been OVERCHARGED!
......visit Guatemala Jan, Feb, March - no rain; "Perpetual Spring", 68-75F; hotel $10, wifi, hot water, stove, fridge - beer 20c. Best place I have ever been...... $10/night in the dorm at Semuc Champey; infinity pool on top of hill; drone; STUFFED with Euro-totty!!!!
Built an aerobatic biplane - differential, Frieze ailerons; 2 place; like boats, planes cost a fortune. Silky smooth push -pull controls. Classy.

GW due to Synodic Resonance, the decrease in cloud cover 'cos of less AEROSOLS for cloud to nucleate. (Cosmic Rays too. )
CO2 effect was saturated back at 140ppm.....first 20ppm absorbed 60%; second 20ppm, 60% of 40, etc Getit? and so on.
So smarty, what do you know of Entropy? Whats the square root of minus 25? Feynman's double slit showing 4 times FASTER than light?
Quantum Mechanics baby.......why do plants NOT grow with heavy water?
I tilt my science knowledge against yours.
My family are Drapers who provided the British Sovereign with 500 armed men on 2 occasions. HM the Quenn and HRH Prince Charles (had dinner with him and Minister of UK Defence!) both Drapers and come to dinner with us at least once a year.
We largely funded the exploration of Canada, John Cabot and his sons, 1497-1520.
What you got, eh?

You would think that with all this education and the time it requires, your social engagements with the queen, your plane building and flying, and your contributions to society, that you wouldn't have time to post on our mere windsurfing forum. Thank you!

Yeah, Guatemala is cheap, but its hardly a big deal. It is good that you got laid at least once though. Congrats.

For the benefit of us here at the other end of the earth, do we need to know what a draper is, or do we just assume that what Decrepit said is correct?

Select to expand quote

decrepit said..

kilo54 said..>>> My family are Drapers who provided the British Sovereign with 500 armed men on 2 occasions. HM the Quenn and HRH Prince Charles (had dinner with him and Minister of UK Defence!) both Drapers and come to dinner with us at least once a year.
We largely funded the exploration of Canada, John Cabot and his sons, 1497-1520.
What you got, eh?

A family history, you're no doubt proud of, BUT -------------

O Boy kilo, that's probably the biggest faux pas you could make on an Aussie forum.

You've now lost all credibility and will be written off as a total wanker. No matter how good your science is.

I find it funny when people are proud of 'what their family have done'. What have you personally done, or is it your family that you cling to to achieve anything?

I wish I were born into wealth. I would be much more prosperous and provide much more to the world than just typing stuff on an internet forum.

If he mistook porn for pom, I wonder what he will think of when he reads wanker?

Select to expand quote

decrepit said..

A family history, you're no doubt proud of, BUT -------------

O Boy kilo, that's probably the biggest faux pas you could make on an Aussie forum.

You've now lost all credibility and will be written off as a total wanker. No matter how good your science is.

For all his buffoonery Kilo54 makes some interesting points. Always worth a quick read between the lines . Give him a green thumb.

I don't know about the cost of a windmill or insulation but the average house runs on 30kw/hr per day. insulation can save 30 to 40% of your energy usage. That's 10 kWhr a day. A big wind turbine generates 3 MW when the wind is blowing. 3MW times say 6 hrs a day the wind's blowing = 18MWhr = 18,000kWhr 18,000/10 = 1,800 houses. A few more than 500 by my calculation but in the ballpark and an interesting point. Properly insulate the houses in a typical australian suburb and you can save a wind turbine's worth of power..

Select to expand quote

Ian K said.. >>>>I don't know about the cost of a windmill or insulation but the average house runs on 30kw/hr per day. insulation can save 30 to 40% of your energy usage. That's 10 kWhr a day. A big wind turbine generates 3 MW when the wind is blowing. 3MW times say 6 hrs a day the wind's blowing = 18MWhr = 18,000kWhr 18,000/10 = 1,800 houses. A few more than 500 by my calculation but in the ballpark and an interesting point. Properly insulate the houses in a typical australian suburb and you can save a wind turbine's worth of power..

This is a passive solar house and well insulated, we run on about a tenth of that, We had 4.5 kw/hrs from the solar panels yesterday and pumped 1kw/hr back into the grid.
Admittedly this is a very mild micro climate here and we don't have a pool or air conditioning. The climate sensible design takes care of any heating or cooling needed.
But all the same it's possible to reduce the amount of electricity used by a very large amount.

Kilo's points make sense, only if you don't take the extra CO2 produced by humans into account, that's the game changer. the ordinary negative feedback loops that stabilise things are no longer strong enough, and the positive feedback loops start taking over. What happened before the industrial revolution is not all that relevant.
The ice fields weren't melting then, reducing the reflection of heat back into space, and the permafrost melting releasing ever more stored greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere.

Select to expand quote

decrepit said..

Ian K said.. >>>>I don't know about the cost of a windmill or insulation but the average house runs on 30kw/hr per day. insulation can save 30 to 40% of your energy usage. That's 10 kWhr a day. A big wind turbine generates 3 MW when the wind is blowing. 3MW times say 6 hrs a day the wind's blowing = 18MWhr = 18,000kWhr 18,000/10 = 1,800 houses. A few more than 500 by my calculation but in the ballpark and an interesting point. Properly insulate the houses in a typical australian suburb and you can save a wind turbine's worth of power..

This is a passive solar house and well insulated, we run on about a tenth of that, We had 4.5 kw/hrs from the solar panels yesterday and pumped 1kw/hr back into the grid.
Admittedly this is a very mild micro climate here and we don't have a pool or air conditioning. The climate sensible design takes care of any heating or cooling needed.
But all the same it's possible to reduce the amount of electricity used by a very large amount.

Kilo's points make sense, only if you don't take the extra CO2 produced by humans into account, that's the game changer. the ordinary negative feedback loops that stabilise things are no longer strong enough, and the positive feedback loops start taking over. What happened before the industrial revolution is not all that relevant.
The ice fields weren't melting then, reducing the reflection of heat back into space, and the permafrost melting releasing ever more stored greenhouse gasses into the atmosphere.

You obviously do not understand what positive feedback is. It is RUNAWAY. Faster and faster. Would mean all the oceans would have evaporated.

Not born into wealth. Dad the youngest Chief Financial Officer of a Commonwealth country. And, yes, 2 Beadles of the Draper's company, 1846-1917, the time that they gained their huge wealth......we controlled ALL cloth, sheets, curtains, carpets, clothes for 800 years. 1.5 Universities; 12 girls schools (wanted to even things out a bit when girls not getting schooling in 1860;) 400 old folks in our homes; we help wounded vets; give scholarships to the young in the Arts and Sciences; 40 hotels and office blocks.

Doubled our assets since 2000. Our Hall used in the movie "The King' speech" to pretend to be Buck House. Was Thomas Cromwell's old place - made the mistake of it being fancier than Henry the 8ths palace, so "Off with his head!"

So I get free food in the Hall; I cannot be busted for "Drunk and Disorderly", indeed, the Constables have to take me home for free!; allowed to drive sheep over London bridges; if HANGED, they must use SILK rope not nasty hemp one.

I mention the Company because one would not think such body exists. We have loaned the Sovereign money on many occasions, and these people remember or forget at their peril.

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..

decrepit said..

kilo54 said..>>> My family are Drapers who provided the British Sovereign with 500 armed men on 2 occasions. HM the Quenn and HRH Prince Charles (had dinner with him and Minister of UK Defence!) both Drapers and come to dinner with us at least once a year.
We largely funded the exploration of Canada, John Cabot and his sons, 1497-1520.
What you got, eh?

A family history, you're no doubt proud of, BUT -------------

O Boy kilo, that's probably the biggest faux pas you could make on an Aussie forum.

You've now lost all credibility and will be written off as a total wanker. No matter how good your science is.

I find it funny when people are proud of 'what their family have done'. What have you personally done, or is it your family that you cling to to achieve anything?

I wish I were born into wealth. I would be much more prosperous and provide much more to the world than just typing stuff on an internet forum.

If he mistook porn for pom, I wonder what he will think of when he reads wanker?

How is your swahili, chummy old boy? Tauma mama yaako, majinga! Wewe mavi basi.

Just trying to change the World. Trying to help stop the squandering of trillions on a non existent problem. Sorry about that.

Before GW there was the Russians; before them the Germans; then building stupid big churches; than big silly pyramids.

Break the mold! Try paying attention instead of being a prick.

Paid actors.

needtoknow.news/2019/10/extinction-rebellion-climate-activists-paid-over-500-per-week-by-george-soros-to-shut-down-britain/

Select to expand quote

kilo54 said..


You obviously do not understand what positive feedback is. It is RUNAWAY. Faster and faster. Would mean all the oceans would have evaporated.

Wrong, idiot.
Positive feedback does not have to be exponential.
A simple example, based on what you have been telling us about how rich you are, would be that some commoner gives you better gifts than they would give somebody poorer because of your status. So you get a bit richer. Positive feedback.

Select to expand quote

Mr Milk said..
Wrong, #####
Positive feedback does not have to be exponential.
A simple example, based on what you have been telling us about how rich you are, would be that some commoner gives you better gifts than they would give somebody poorer because of your status. So you get a bit richer. Positive feedback.

In your example the positive feedback loop will be interrupted by the majority jacking up and not wanting to give anything.

Better example needed, A positive feedback in isolation that doesn't go off exponentially?

OK
Say I plant a tree on the footpath. Neighbourhood dogs come along and piss on it, watering and fertilising it and leaving a scent that gets other neighbourhood dogs to do the same. There's your positive feedback
The tree grows a bit better than otherwise, but is still size limited by its species and capillarity. I think the hard limit is about 100m
And also the dogs don't piss so much that the ground turns boggy, which is what our pommy troll friend would probably extrapolate to.

Select to expand quote

Mr Milk said..
OK
Say I plant a tree on the footpath. Neighbourhood dogs come along and piss on it, watering and fertilising it and leaving a scent that gets other neighbourhood dogs to do the same. There's your positive feedback
The tree grows a bit better than otherwise, but is still size limited by its species and capillarity. I think the hard limit is about 100m
And also the dogs don't piss so much that the ground turns boggy, which is what our pommy troll friend would probably extrapolate to.

But once the dogs have depleted prey in the area they thin out. Earth has no doubt been perturbed by all sorts of "positive feedbacks" in the past but it always seems to pull through with a countering negative feedback springing into action. ( Though snowball earth was a bit out there). Venus not so. It just got hotter and hotter. The negative feedback that eventually pulled its greenhouse effect up at 462 degrees is probably just re-radiation into space.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venus

Select to expand quote

kilo54 said..

FormulaNova said..

I find it funny when people are proud of 'what their family have done'. What have you personally done, or is it your family that you cling to to achieve anything?

I wish I were born into wealth. I would be much more prosperous and provide much more to the world than just typing stuff on an internet forum.

If he mistook porn for pom, I wonder what he will think of when he reads wanker?

How is your swahili, chummy old boy? Tauma mama yaako, majinga! Wewe mavi basi.

Just trying to change the World. Trying to help stop the squandering of trillions on a non existent problem. Sorry about that.

Before GW there was the Russians; before them the Germans; then building stupid big churches; than big silly pyramids.

Break the mold! Try paying attention instead of being a prick.

How is my Swahili? That's another thing I find amusing. People that are proud that they speak a language, but they have lived there. Even a baby can pick up a language when they are exposed to it for long enough. Its hardly difficult. I am more surprised when people don't pick up the language, but its usually because they don't want to.

A minor polyglot? Languages can be hard to learn, but its much more difficult in a classroom situation where you aren't exposed to the general use of the language in everyday life. If you live in a country where they speak the language you are learning, it is so much easier.

If you speak Swahili without having lived in an area that speaks it, I have much more respect. If you have lived there... well, its normal that you should learn the language.

While studying Spanish, I was a bit surprised about how proud an Italian woman was that she could also speak Spanish. Okay, it is an achievement, but given that they are both romance languages and closely related, its not exactly a major achievement.

I am one of those 'weirdos' that is more impressed by someone's use of logic and argument and not by them trying to show everyone a list of credentials that may or may not mean anything.

Select to expand quote

kilo54 said..>>>You obviously do not understand what positive feedback is. It is RUNAWAY. Faster and faster. Would mean all the oceans would have evaporated.

Agreed it is runaway, faster and faster, BUT the acceleration depends on the gain in the system. in this case it's very low, The process will take decades, and there is always a saturation point that ends the process.
It's you that doesn't understand feedback

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..

kilo54 said..

Mr Milk said..

kilo54 said..


I, like most, strongly for a good environment. Built an eco friendly house using recycled material. Stackwall, so no outside cladding or interior gyproc. Placed to the South of an evergreen windbreak. A passive solar conservatory on S. side with night curtain, silvered to reflect most of heat. Salad veggies/herbs year round..........analysed stomach parts of crabs from Liverpool bay, dissolving them with HF in solid GOLD crucibles. Found it took 15 years for HALF the pollution in the bay to clear. So in 30 years, 1/4 STILL there! Disgusting.
So, yes, for a clean planet, but this CO2 hysteria is rubbish. Best wishes!

So you're a pom troll. Must be desperate to spend your time shooting the breeze on an Oz windsport website.

Love porn! Do not understand why you call me a troll.
Passed my RSc in 2 years; Permanent Commission from HM the Queen - only 20 a year in GD(P); 5 languages including swahili; bribed my way thru frontier in Central America; spent night on the most active volcano in the Americas, Pacaya volcan; fought off Mau-mau terrs with 9mm when 7 years old; got laid in Guatemala for $3.20 - told I had been OVERCHARGED!
......visit Guatemala Jan, Feb, March - no rain; "Perpetual Spring", 68-75F; hotel $10, wifi, hot water, stove, fridge - beer 20c. Best place I have ever been...... $10/night in the dorm at Semuc Champey; infinity pool on top of hill; drone; STUFFED with Euro-totty!!!!
Built an aerobatic biplane - differential, Frieze ailerons; 2 place; like boats, planes cost a fortune. Silky smooth push -pull controls. Classy.

GW due to Synodic Resonance, the decrease in cloud cover 'cos of less AEROSOLS for cloud to nucleate. (Cosmic Rays too. )
CO2 effect was saturated back at 140ppm.....first 20ppm absorbed 60%; second 20ppm, 60% of 40, etc Getit? and so on.
So smarty, what do you know of Entropy? Whats the square root of minus 25? Feynman's double slit showing 4 times FASTER than light?
Quantum Mechanics baby.......why do plants NOT grow with heavy water?
I tilt my science knowledge against yours.
My family are Drapers who provided the British Sovereign with 500 armed men on 2 occasions. HM the Quenn and HRH Prince Charles (had dinner with him and Minister of UK Defence!) both Drapers and come to dinner with us at least once a year.
We largely funded the exploration of Canada, John Cabot and his sons, 1497-1520.
What you got, eh?

You would think that with all this education and the time it requires, your social engagements with the queen, your plane building and flying, and your contributions to society, that you wouldn't have time to post on our mere windsurfing forum. Thank you!

Yeah, Guatemala is cheap, but its hardly a big deal. It is good that you got laid at least once though. Congrats.

For the benefit of us here at the other end of the earth, do we need to know what a draper is, or do we just assume that what Decrepit said is correct?

He even takes goats over the London bridge! What a man!

Select to expand quote

decrepit said..



Agreed it is runaway, faster and faster, BUT the acceleration depends on the gain in the system. in this case it's very low, The process will take decades, and there is always a saturation point that ends the process.

So have the climate scientists figured out the what, where, how and whys of this saturation point? The northern ice cap might go before we control our greenhouse gases but for most of earth's history it has been ice free and still remained conducive to life. In fact the glaciers had retreated during the Cambrian explosion so we could assume that an ice free earth is more conducive to life that our current ice age.

As Kilo54 asked "why is the current temperature considered the sweet spot?"

www.livescience.com/28098-cambrian-period.html

Select to expand quote

Ian K said..

decrepit said..



Agreed it is runaway, faster and faster, BUT the acceleration depends on the gain in the system. in this case it's very low, The process will take decades, and there is always a saturation point that ends the process.

So have the climate scientists figured out the what, where, how and whys of this saturation point? The northern ice cap might go before we control our greenhouse gases but for most of earth's history it has been ice free and still remained conducive to life. In fact the glaciers had retreated during the Cambrian explosion so we could assume that an ice free earth is more conducive to life that our current ice age.

As Kilo54 asked "why is the current temperature considered the sweet spot?"

www.livescience.com/28098-cambrian-period.html

Isn't it because the agriculture that we rely upon has been developed in a slightly cooler world?

Yes once all the ice has gone and all the gases under the perma frost released, that's the end of the cycle, and with any luck the negative feed back loops will take over.
I don't think anybody is saying that will create an unlivable world. But it will be hugely disruptive for human civilisation.
Ocean levels have been 20m higher than they are today.
How much flooding of essentials can we cope with?
Think the Worlds Ports, they will all either need to be relocated or have locks built around them. And that's not all the infrastructure that will be affected, there's much more very important stuff less than 20m above sealevel.

Agriculture will also have a huge amount of adapting to do.

The global financial situation isn't all that stable either, who knows what this added pressure could do to it.

Like wise the global political situation is also fragile, political refugees are already flooding the system, add in even more climate refugees, who knows what could happen.

Nobody can predict what the outcome will be, but the potential for disaster looks very high from where I'm standing.

There are so many alt right wing keyboard warriors these days who put forward their opinions based on a their own isolated privileged viewpoint.
Time to look at the future from a wider perspective.

The current infrastructure in place for distribution and production of power will remain and maybe reduced say 20%, for sake of argument. There will still be coal, gas, diesel etc for production of power. Moving to the future hopefully there is clean renewable power for the expansion of the power production.

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decrepit said..>>> Ocean levels have been 20m higher than they are today.

On rethinking where that came from, I think that's the figure for all the Greenland ice melting.

According to Wikipedia, for the last warm period 130,000 years ago, when temps were around 2deg warmer, sealevel was about 10m higher.
Also according to wikipedia past sealevels have been 300m higher. but that's going back into geological time when continents were also different. So is not all that relevant, but if all the ice does melt, sea level rise could be more than 20m, but that's a long way off, something for great great great grand kids to worry about

What will destroy our species is the delusional and highly dysfunctional ego that allows us to even consider we have any fckn clue about how the complex interrelated natural systems of this earth work and they we have any control or influence over them... and to gibber incessantly on the matter.

OK more thoughts on feedback, (yes eppo more incessant gibbering).
I think most will agree the classic master of feedback was Jimi Hendricks.
the gain of his system was the amps volume control and the distance from guitar to speaker. saturation happened when maxpower of the amp was reached. So if the guitar was a long way from the speaker, no feedback. Positive feed back started when the guitar and speaker were close enough for a slight reverb to begin, a note was extended a bit longer than normal. I think this is about where we are at the moment with climate change, the gain isn't high enough to be self sustaining. As the guitar moves slowly closer to the speaker, the reverb gets more pronounced, until it is self sustaining and cannot be stopped with out reducing the gain.
This I think is the "tipping point" when positive feed back becomes self sustaining.

Another different form of feed back was that interesting thread a while ago about a prop driven buggy going downwind faster than the wind.
If the prop was driving the wheels downwind, the faster it went the less apparent wind it had so couldn't go very fast. this is negative feedback, stabilising the speed.
If however it was geared the opposite way to try and drive the buggy up wind, 2 different scenarios become possible.
If it's geared low enough to overcome the wind pressure it will move upwind. but if the gearing is too high for the torque to overcome the push down wind, that's where it will go, reluctantly at first, becaue it really wants to go the other way. but slowly as it goes downwind, the wheels spin the prop in the other direction driving it downwind, the faster it goes, the faster it goes. This is positive feedback of a sort.

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eppo said..
What will destroy our species is the delusional and highly dysfunctional ego that allows us to even consider we have any fckn clue about how the complex interrelated natural systems of this earth work and they we have any control or influence over them... and to gibber incessantly on the matter.

yes, bollocks

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decrepit said..
OK more thoughts on feedback, (yes eppo more incessant gibbering).
I think most will agree the classic master of feedback was Jimi Hendricks.
the gain of his system was the amps volume control and the distance from guitar to speaker. saturation happened when maxpower of the amp was reached. So if the guitar was a long way from the speaker, no feedback. Positive feed back started when the guitar and speaker were close enough for a slight reverb to begin, a note was extended a bit longer than normal. I think this is about where we are at the moment with climate change, the gain isn't high enough to be self sustaining. As the guitar moves slowly closer to the speaker, the reverb gets more pronounced, until it is self sustaining and cannot be stopped with out reducing the gain.
This I think is the "tipping point" when positive feed back becomes self sustaining.

Another different form of feed back was that interesting thread a while ago about a prop driven buggy going downwind faster than the wind.
If the prop was driving the wheels downwind, the faster it went the less apparent wind it had so couldn't go very fast. this is negative feedback, stabilising the speed.
If however it was geared the opposite way to try and drive the buggy up wind, 2 different scenarios become possible.
If it's geared low enough to overcome the wind pressure it will move upwind. but if the gearing is too high for the torque to overcome the push down wind, that's where it will go, reluctantly at first, becaue it really wants to go the other way. but slowly as it goes downwind, the wheels spin the prop in the other direction driving it downwind, the faster it goes, the faster it goes. This is positive feedback of a sort.

Hendrix had it turned up to 11.

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eppo said..
What will destroy our species is the delusional and highly dysfunctional ego that allows us to even consider we have any fckn clue about how the complex interrelated natural systems of this earth work and they we have any control or influence over them... and to gibber incessantly on the matter.

Oh how true that is.

And conversely the only thing which can save the species is to collectively rise above ego.

www.bom.gov.au/climate/history/rainfall/
Can any scientists on here come to any conclusions on drought ?
Looks highly variable to me.

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Ian K said..

Give him a green thumb.

Not so fast.
Insulating roof doesn't make any sense.New homes should be designed in such way to utilize solar panels as a roofing structure in first place.
Putting ceramic tiles, insulating beneath, then drilling holes and installing solar panel damaging all below, that is how homes are done today.In few years from now , homes will have completely flat roof at specific angle to the sun, to capture the most of the light.Solar panel will be build in long strips, insulated already at the bottom and will serve as construction material.
No need for tiles or steel roofing.
New panels could provide all: structural strength, insulation, carry water, produce electricity.
Amazingly nobody invented yet such solar panel that meet all those tasks above.

We need possibly another Nobel Prize Winner, Tesla size inventor , Elon Musk entrepreneur to make such simple panels possible.

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Foghorn said..
www.bom.gov.au/climate/history/rainfall/
Can any scientists on here come to any conclusions on drought ?
Looks highly variable to me.

Do you think that looking at 100 pictures of rainfall gives you the information to conclude anything?

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log man said..
Do you think that looking at 100 pictures of rainfall gives you the information to conclude anything?

Why not? You can watch a couple of minutes of a video and condemn everyone left right and center. Or cherry-pick a stat and declare the science settled.