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Macroscien said..

Where everybody wins. There is no physical law that could make the project obsolete in next 1000 years.

Dude seriously...teleportation beams

Next thing to consider could be air pollution.

Each electric train replace 1500 diesel burning trucks on the road. Or even more passenger cars commuting long distances.
Even 200 km trip should be cheaper and faster by hopping into train with your passenger car.

Then we could think seriously about building solar plants to power our electric rail roads network.

Even more fascinating could be combining rail roads with underground power transmit-ion cables. No more awful power lines, and whole Australia integrated into efficient underground electric grid . This way we have next participant financing the projects.
There is room also for optic fiber cables - to telecommunication come on board with money too.

As my last post, revenue, 2012 stats 195 million klm were travelled by freight(trucks) not sure of fuel consumption or how many drivers being taxed around $200 per week, plus gst on your freight bill, tyre use yep the gst on that, parts and repairs to trucks and the taxes on mechanics and gst on parts, it's huge the volume of revenue involved

A project such as this can really revolutionize Australia and open up so many unused lands for development, with development jobs and economic growth will come. Australia’s reliance of road transport is very high as is negative effects on the environment and society. I am not sure if it will be possible and practical to combine freight and passenger transport. It will be huge investment and will take a lot of political will power and long term outlook. These days most people are so short term minded so changing that will be very hard. Sure there are a lot of things to consider but I sure can see it working. Just imagine a reliable, cost effective and safe transport of all kinds of goods all around Australia.

An articulated truck does 57.7 per 100 klms at a rate of 42 cents in revenue inc gst per ltr so if that vehicule travelled 195,000,000 how much revenue is that

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Macroscien said..
Air resistance depend on speed but for aerodynamically design train will be almost negligent taking into account enormous weight / mass of the train.

Remember the external surface proportion to the internal volume becomes more favorable with increased diameter of our train.

Yes but the drag from the wind is exponential, so the difference in drag between 100 to 200 will not be the difference in drag from 200 to 300.

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Macroscien said..

Even more fascinating could be combining rail roads with underground power transmit-ion cables.

Thats a good idea, to give you an idea of the feasibility you should consider the transmission losses, which would be massive.
another thing to look at would be the potential upgrade in the basslink as it is similar in nature.

Once again sick idea, just things to consider.

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flyingcab said..

Thats a good idea, to give you an idea of the feasibility you should consider the transmission losses,

No,, the same cables hanging now on high voltage towers will go under ground in service tunnels by rail road.
There is already national electric grid , but that one have many advantages.
-Easy to service and access,
-DC high voltage cut losses in transmission significantly in comparison to existing Alternate current lines.

Beside rail road is going where big cities are so delivering communication and reliable electricity make sense.

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cauncy said...
An articulated truck does 57.7 per 100 klms at a rate of 42 cents in revenue inc gst per ltr so if that vehicule travelled 195,000,000 how much revenue is that

I can't see this as revenue. For me it is just complete waste and burden on our economy.That is main reason we are not competitive in any industrial sector with other countries.

The next beneficial could be agriculture. Farms and orchards in one region produce access that is rotting because lack of transport or infrastructure to process food. Transport by truck cost more then apples itself.

With new rails apples and oranges from Victoria could travel in not time to any port or city in Australia/.

why not dig a canal right through the centre of australia,
big enough for cruise ships and cargo ships.
you could go right past uluru.
shorter export,import times. tourism.
with the mines slowing down it would create jobs and future revenue.
Desalination plants in australias most arid regions would enable more food to be grow and then exported.
livestock could be loaded in numerous locations.
of course project cost would be huge however due to the size of it, it would be a global engineering marvel.
People would come to see it.
Where soil was no good for agriculture or farming,huge inland seas could be created for aquaculture, due to theshipping location fresh seafood could be immediatlyexported.

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flyingcab said..

Yes but the drag from the wind is exponential, so the difference in drag between 100 to 200 will not be the difference in drag from 200 to 300.

There is smart but very easy trick that allow you to cancel air resistance at high speeds up to 800 km/ h,

You enclose the railroad with semi sealed air tight cover. Now big fan in the front of rail truck suck air like vacuum cleaner , transport in pipes to the rear and dispatch at the rear.
That is exactly what Elon Musk is planning to do in his hyper loop trains.

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Cal said..
Yep, a bloody disgraceful situation with our lack of freight trains; so many bloody trucks doing long haul. Trucks for local, trains for distance, everyone would win. It would be soooo expensive to reinstall what we have pulled out, let aline a cutting edge future proofed system. A great nation building project though!

A long time ago in a galaxy far away, it used to be compulsory to send all freight by rail if a railway line went there.
So to send stuff to a destination which should have been a three hour road trip, it could take up to a week to send it by rail.
The situation was absolutely hopeless.
My poor old mum and dad used to have to resort to smuggling stuff in the back of the car, all covered up with rugs in case someone pulled them over to check, as sometimes happened. If you got caught you had to prove it was stuff for personal use and not for resale.

Because the rail had a government legislated monopoly they could be a slow and sloppy as they liked, and they really did like.
Stuff got smashed up, left behind, delivered to the wrong town, or just plain disappeared as a matter of course.
It was an almost impossible job to hurry things up.
Any attempt to hurry things up resulted it it going slower, as was the case with most things under the control of the unions, particularly anything which had to go through either the ports or the rail. If it had to go through both then you had double trouble.
Pretty much as soon as the monopoly was lifted, rail lost almost all it's freight to road, except for some grain transport or other things for which long term contracts could be drawn up and enforced.

I can order stuff ex east by road and it's delivered from their shop to my door in four or five days. from one side of australia to the other.
It used to take that long just to load it onto a train.
Rail is dead in australia because it deserved to be put down. And it certainly deserved to be.
Good riddance.

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pweedas said..

A long time ago in a galaxy far away, it used to be compulsory to send all freight by rail

That apply pretty much to everything government do on its own.

It could be electric grid, NBN , everything could be stuffed up.

But that is a matter of organisation and control and have nothing to do with rail vs road transport at all.

Competition between providers,. If you allow the same on rail networks - few competing companies for customers - the cheapest , most efficient simply the best wins.
So good point that ownership of such enterprise must be carefully considered. At least few competing companies utilizing the same rail network. (?)
On another hand we don't want to hand over such lucrative business to single family that could then suck all profits and dictate whole country.

Does this train run both directions? Or does my container from Coffs to Wollongong get sent round counterclockwise?

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Macroscien said..
There is already national electric grid

really?
they did a cracker of a job of hiding the 'lectrickery lines crossing the Nullabor then!

stephen

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Razzonater said..
why not dig a canal right through the centre of australia,
big enough for cruise ships and cargo ships.

even better.....

dig your canal north - south, following the W.A / N.T / S.A. border
make it nice and wide / forget the bridges



stephen

Well,.. it might need to be more than 30 miles wide.
The English channel did a good job keeping the eurotrash out of england for thousands of years but then they dug a tunnel, and now anyone can drive in.

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Macroscien said..

We need to think in perspective of next 1000 years.

Absolutely, but unfortunately politicians are only capable of thinking in the perspective of the next election.

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cisco said...

Macroscien said..

We need to think in perspective of next 1000 years.

Absolutely, but unfortunately politicians are only capable of thinking in the perspective of the next election.

you are
absolutley right, china
and the government over there has
100, 200 and 300 year plans
(dead set)
Its why they are rising and rising our government only cares at max about the term they are in and when any forward thinkers come in with projects that may run 10-20 years no-one on opposition (either side cause theres only two lets it happen cause they are all scared of doing anything which closely resembles building an economy

Macro.....................your spot on.............. We need this and more, airport link trains ect ........... in melbourne , no trains to airport WTF !!!!


Way to do this is make Political parties sign documents stating what they will do prior to us voting them in for a 10 year term !!!!!!!

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cisco said..

Macroscien said..

We need to think in perspective of next 1000 years.

Absolutely, but unfortunately politicians are only capable of thinking in the perspective of the next election.

For every political party this is pure gold mine. They could offer unlimited jobs. Print money at will.

Every politician that sign under the project will to into history book as God Father and creator of the biggest project in Australia history and seventh wonder in whole world. This is every PM dream, like Kennedy landing on the Moon.

Stimulus to whole economy is instant.

All sectors from research institutes, planners, drivers, diggers, steel mills and mines, even catering has plenty of work for next few decades.

Until somebody could stuff up something terribly everything should be fine. The biggest project Australia ever seen but return on investment quick.

First serious section connecting Sydney to Melbourne will bring instant cash flow and test whole project feasibility. Instant relief to road traffic.

If we don't have money for 2 way lines finish 1 first and trains drive half day in one direction then half in opposite. Once traffic increase build second line on already reserved and prepared land corridor.
If we don't have money and experience for 300 km/h start with proven and reliable 150 km/ h but one that will drive non stop and arrive always on time. Being wide and cheap already will beat road transport. Then speed incrementally increase over years.

I will not only compromise only on size and our train should be as wide as possible to be future proof.

We need to think big to stimulate imagination, have everybody involved , not just another boring , dirty provisional rail road.

Lets take Panama Canal example. Originally suppose to be at sea level. They compromised and now already is two small even after recent expensive upgrade. Already biggest ships go around and competing channel is plan to build in neighboring country.
In my opinion building at sea level could be cheaper because you could design floating platforms and barges that take all dragged material to sea during construction process. Save money and time on damms.

No pweedas, rail is diminished in Australia because the OPERATORS deserved it. Nowdays there is dramatically different technology and expectations, Id suggest the shonky operators still exist in many transport mediums.

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SandS said...


Macro.....................your spot on.............. We need this and more, airport link trains ect ........... in melbourne , no trains to airport WTF !!!!


Way to do this is make Political parties sign documents stating what they will do prior to us voting them in for a 10 year term !!!!!!!

Abbott signed a contract, printed it on a billboard and posed in front of it. Ever since he has called those contracted items 'not core'. Just saying...

what contracted item are those Cal ?????

A quick google returned this sands. Not meaning to make this about Abbott, Im confident similar will occure under all parties, particularly if given 10 year terms.

you could do full population crowd funding so the government could never sell it or contract it to third party.
built by the people,for the people...
Issue shares at say 10 bucks each so even mum and dad and retirees could be in on it. if everyone in oz (i think 30million people could be wrong) put in 10 bucks youd have 300million dollars.
obviously it will cost several billion to build but if you make it affordable to buy a part of the infastructure everyone would want a part.
with growing populations and in 50 years it would be a solid investment into ya kids/grandkids future.
i often think of the projects the people of australia could undertake, i think it would be beneficial to all citizens if we funded and ran our own builds and infastructure projects. not like a sharemarket but you get a percentage of profit for money invested.
say if you crowd funded a copper mine or gold mine butinstead of using huge corporate companies to fund the project everyone threw in 100 bucks or whatever theycould afford,as soon as production starts all profit goes back to the people who chucked in.
kinda like instead of buying a carton you all chuck in for a brewery instead, sure you wont get ya six pack now but you will get a beer every year for the next 50, and then so will the next generation.
im all for ya trainline and its a brilliant idea i just think society as a whole have to start doing some sort of crowd funding by social media or other ways to really propel aussie ahead.
we are the ones who would benefit and we would also keep our land and utilities safe from huge corporote and international buyout of the peoples stuff

Kinda agree Razzonater, but, um, if taxation isnt crowd funding, WTF IS IT?

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Cal said..




A quick google returned this sands. Not meaning to make this about Abbott, Im confident similar will occure under all parties, particularly if given 10 year terms.

that's an advertisement , not a contract signed off buy all in a political party.

so whats wrong with a 10 year term , if we agree with what they have signed up to do. ?

are you saying that you think short terms are better for getting things done ?

^^ short memory, selective memory or just missed it; when that campaign stunt rolled out Abbots words were "this is our contract with the Australian voters". Please, lets not squabble over rubbish, fact is our pollitical parties have a deficit of trust that disqualifies them from longer terms. If we had different people in a different system then things might be different, although I feel it needs to be a dramatically different system and people.

well lets hope for some difference then .

What an ironic thread!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Planning for the future by building yesteryears vision..........

Its been worked out that it would cost about 100% of Australias raised revenue for 400yrs to build and maintain two tracks around Australia, of course, that's assuming the unions don't get involved

So you just gotta work out what were going to do with the next 600yrs, maybe we could built another two tracks.......

It would be a lot cheaper to build designated roads solely for trucks to transport goods, or step into the present and accept Aviation is the future