Discussion of Fuel price rise and oil, give me your opinions.
I know The whole situation with Russians , Us and Ukraine etc is having an impact.
how high do you think fuel prices will go ?
Net zero emissions? ha-ha

Folks are comfortable with a certain percentage of weekly expenditure being on fuel. When fuel was about 1.00 a litre they all went out and bought 2.5 tonne utes and suvs. Most are cruising around with 1 person and 5 kg of groceries in the tub. Remeber the fuel crisis of the 70s? They even sold a few 4 cylinder downsized commodores. Then engines got more efficient and the size of commodores went up to as big as the kingswood it replaced. Unless you're already driving an 800cc city car don't complain. Adjust.

Walking andTeslas are an option to lol $$

Fuel prices haven't changed much for 15 years, so it's fair enough for a bit of catch up.

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Really?


Average ULP Pump Prices

NSW then WA
2008 143.8 143.3
2009 120.7 119.2
2010 125.7 127.0
2011 140.9 142.0

last year around $1.70, up to $2.10 now

^^ dunno how the fark that happened with a accident right click in the window. At least if I quote myself I will agree

Op in before $3 a L

I can remember petrol going up to 50c per litre and wonder how to afford it

fleetautonews.com.au/historical-pump-prices-in-australia/

I wouldn't worry too much about the price, worry more about availability. Aus used to maintain strategic fuel reserves on our own shores, now , according to Scotty from marketing, we keep our reserves in the good old US of A, no problem accessing them there now is there.

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UncleBob said..
I wouldn't worry too much about the price, worry more about availability. Aus used to maintain strategic fuel reserves on our own shores, now , according to Scotty from marketing, we keep our reserves in the good old US of A, no problem accessing them there now is there.

Bob those reserves are dedicated for when the s**t really hits the fan, ie ADF vehicles. But I do agree with the sentiment, we have no refining of our own resource, in a free market world it's cheaper to buy it offshore...... until it isn't and then we are, well you know ....

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faulkzie11 said..
Op in before $3 a L

In NZ we were over $3 as we have so much tax. The Government reduced some tax last week and my local Gul is $2.61 (for unleaded) so $100 is just under 40 litres in the tank.
I do remember living in Oz 1984 & 5 where $5 would get me to Uni for a week

Don't forget just about every good has a transport cost esp meat etc. The discussion should really be about inflation not just fuel prices. We had it good for a long time. Not so sure about the future.

let's say $200 per week on fuel. That's $10,000 a year. Electric is a third the price, saving $7,000 a year. If an EV is $50,000 it will pay for itself in seven years in fuel savings alone.

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psychojoe said..
let's say $200 per week on fuel. That's $10,000 a year. Electric is a third the price, saving $7,000 a year. If an EV is $50,000 it will pay for itself in seven years in fuel savings alone.

Are they really that cheap compared to a petrol car?

Without a doubt, once EVs become common enough all of the states will start charging taxes to make up for declining fuel taxes and excise. I guess for the moment this helps EVs, but like LPG once it becomes common enough the government will want their share.

Maybe the government would be better off now discounting their current fuel taxes to stop people going to EVs to stop their tax drain. Government's aren't good at forward thinking, but maybe they will when it comes to losing tax.

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psychojoe said..
let's say $200 per week on fuel. That's $10,000 a year. Electric is a third the price, saving $7,000 a year. If an EV is $50,000 it will pay for itself in seven years in fuel savings alone.

Given that the tax on fuel that maintains roads etc is built into the fuel price, electric vehicles which use those same roads etc but pay no contribution to their costs. This will inevitably change as more of the vehicles on the road are electric while the roads still need maintenance etc, will there be a tax on k's travelled, same as fuel tax but collected at rego time, or will the price of all electricity be taxed ?? Something WILL emerge and electric vehicles may well not look as sweet as now.

EV's in Vic are not looking sweet already.

Adding the new 2.5c c/km fee from Vic govt at the next tax time will hurt some pretty soon.

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UncleBob said..

psychojoe said..
let's say $200 per week on fuel. That's $10,000 a year. Electric is a third the price, saving $7,000 a year. If an EV is $50,000 it will pay for itself in seven years in fuel savings alone.

Given that the tax on fuel that maintains roads etc is built into the fuel price, electric vehicles which use those same roads etc but pay no contribution to their costs. This will inevitably change as more of the vehicles on the road are electric while the roads still need maintenance etc, will there be a tax on k's travelled, same as fuel tax but collected at rego time, or will the price of all electricity be taxed ?? Something WILL emerge and electric vehicles may well not look as sweet as now.

Is the money raised from road use like fuel taxes set aside in a special account and then all of costs of roads are paid for by this account? I don't think the government works like this.

It works more like the taxes from road use go into an account and money is taken out of it to spend on whatever is needed. When it comes to spending on roads the organisations charged with building & maintaining roads put forth their annual budget which puts down expected spending to treasury department which is either approved, denied or amended. The money to pay the budget comes from debt & taxes, taxes coming from whatever source.

Considering most taxes are collected by the Federal government & most of roads are in the care of local and state governments, it would be extremely difficult to spend taxes on road use is to be only on roads.

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Mobydisc said..

UncleBob said..

psychojoe said..
let's say $200 per week on fuel. That's $10,000 a year. Electric is a third the price, saving $7,000 a year. If an EV is $50,000 it will pay for itself in seven years in fuel savings alone.

Given that the tax on fuel that maintains roads etc is built into the fuel price, electric vehicles which use those same roads etc but pay no contribution to their costs. This will inevitably change as more of the vehicles on the road are electric while the roads still need maintenance etc, will there be a tax on k's travelled, same as fuel tax but collected at rego time, or will the price of all electricity be taxed ?? Something WILL emerge and electric vehicles may well not look as sweet as now.

Is the money raised from road use like fuel taxes set aside in a special account and then all of costs of roads are paid for by this account? I don't think the government works like this.

It works more like the taxes from road use go into an account and money is taken out of it to spend on whatever is needed. When it comes to spending on roads the organisations charged with building & maintaining roads put forth their annual budget which puts down expected spending to treasury department which is either approved, denied or amended. The money to pay the budget comes from debt & taxes, taxes coming from whatever source.

Considering most taxes are collected by the Federal government & most of roads are in the care of local and state governments, it would be extremely difficult to spend taxes on road use is to be only on roads.

Quite possibly correct, however if the incoming funds are reducing due to an identifiable event you can bet your life that an alternative source will be found and exploited, the cost per km bieng the most likely and probably fairest.

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crustysailor said..
EV's in Vic are not looking sweet already.

Adding the new 2.5c c/km fee from Vic govt at the next tax time will hurt some pretty soon.

I wonder how that works around plug in hybrids.
I'm looking at the MG thing that claims about 60km on battery alone if you don't drive fast. Beyond that it burns petrol only, but you can also run it on power/petrol so the engine switches in and out. What I don't understand about it is that you can't run it on power if its cold, which kind of kills the point. I want to be able to use solar only to do my shopping and a little petrol if I go to the beach.
How can the tax be split between petrol driving and power?

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Mr Milk said..

crustysailor said..
EV's in Vic are not looking sweet already.

Adding the new 2.5c c/km fee from Vic govt at the next tax time will hurt some pretty soon.

I wonder how that works around plug in hybrids.
I'm looking at the MG thing that claims about 60km on battery alone if you don't drive fast. Beyond that it burns petrol only, but you can also run it on power/petrol so the engine switches in and out. What I don't understand about it is that you can't run it on power if its cold, which kind of kills the point. I want to be able to use solar only to do my shopping and a little petrol if I go to the beach.
How can the tax be split between petrol driving and power?

I think that's going to be a difficult one. How would you determine the distance done using fuel and the distance done using electricity?

I suspect that these sort of hybrids require the ICE to power some things, so maybe the system requires initial heat to get things going? There are some out there that just run the motor only to recharge the batteries and effectively run on electricity all the time but the engine is also recharging all the time, just as different levels. I suspect that they use the engine for things like the heater and AC.

Then why can you run a pure EV from cold without an ICE to warm it up?

What drugs are you guys on? I put ice in my drinks to cool them down, not heat them up.

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Harrow said..
What drugs are you guys on? I put ice in my drinks to cool them down, not heat them up.

ice ?

Why don't they just tax the tyres?

50,000 km per set. If they want 2.5 cents a km that's $1250 tax on a set. Tax at 100% should do it. A small car using a less expensive set doesn't wear out the roads as much.

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Carantoc said..

Harrow said..
What drugs are you guys on? I put ice in my drinks to cool them down, not heat them up.

ice ?

probably internal combustion engine

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Mr Milk said..
Then why can you run a pure EV from cold without an ICE to warm it up?

I am guessing its a design decision. I was reading about one Toyota (or was it a Nissan?) hybrid where the engine just runs all the time to charge the batteries, and the drivetrain is electric. If you did that, you may as well use the engine for the heater, the AC, and things like vacuum booster for the brakes. I don't know if they have, I am just suggesting you could.

On a pure EV, you have pumps for some of these things and electrically assisted power steering.

I think some of these hybrids can run purely electric up to a certain speed, so I am guessing some don't need the ICE at all sometimes.

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Harrow said..
What drugs are you guys on? I put ice in my drinks to cool them down, not heat them up.

That's crazy! I put energy into my fridge to cool it down. I think my aircon works the same too. What is wrong with this world!

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Ian K said..
Why don't they just tax the tyres?

50,000 km per set. If they want 2.5 cents a km that's $1250 tax on a set. Tax at 100% should do it. A small car using a less expensive set doesn't wear out the roads as much.

That's a very interesting option. Simple too.
The challenge would, however, be with those that seem to struggle to spend $400 on a set of tyres as it is (been there myself in the past, so no judgement). I could see people resorting to public transport (where available) due to the cost of petrol, yet driving on bald tyres due to the cost of replacements.
I could see it working, from a consumer point of view, if it was gradually implemented ie gradually raising the tax. Get people used to the rising cost of tyres, but that could be too slow.

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Ian K said..
Why don't they just tax the tyres?

50,000 km per set. If they want 2.5 cents a km that's $1250 tax on a set. Tax at 100% should do it. A small car using a less expensive set doesn't wear out the roads as much.

I can imagine people keeping their pressures higher and running their tyres past the safety limit, just to reduce this tax.

What do you do when you damage a tyre prematurely? Go for a tax credit?

In these days of electronic speedos, tracking EV mileage will be easy. As mentioned, (pliug-in) hybrids not so much.

I looked at hybrids when I replaced my last car (written off before the first damn service!).
What I understood of the hybrids was that, yes, can run electric up to a certain speed, then it's running on fuel.
Great for city driving, less good for highway driving. Small diesels were getting much better fuel consumption on the highway than hybrids.
I'm currently driving a 2L diesel 7 speed auto- I average about 4.9L/100km (VW Golf Wagon).
Before that, a 1.6L diesel with 6 sp auto at about 4.5L/100km (Audi A3 hatch)
And before that, a 1.6L diesel with 5 sp manual at about 3.9L/100km (VW Golf hatch). I put 350,000ks on that car and sold it to my mother-in-law nearly 5 years ago, and it's still going strong..... mechanically. Paint and body work? Looks like she drives by 'feel'.

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damned67 said..
I looked at hybrids when I replaced my last car (written off before the first damn service!).
What I understood of the hybrids was that, yes, can run electric up to a certain speed, then it's running on fuel.
Great for city driving, less good for highway driving. Small diesels were getting much better fuel consumption on the highway than hybrids.
I'm currently driving a 2L diesel 7 speed auto- I average about 4.9L/100km (VW Golf Wagon).
Before that, a 1.6L diesel with 6 sp auto at about 4.5L/100km (Audi A3 hatch)
And before that, a 1.6L diesel with 5 sp manual at about 3.9L/100km (VW Golf hatch). I put 350,000ks on that car and sold it to my mother-in-law nearly 5 years ago, and it's still going strong..... mechanically. Paint and body work? Looks like she drives by 'feel'.

Diesels are going the way of the dodo, as emission controls tighten. Many manufacturers have stopped producing them and now focus on EV's. Some countries are banning their sale so development will stagnate in the coming years.
Yes they are great for economy and reliability, but Volkswagen and dieselgate definitely put a nail in the coffin.