If you are a believer that it is OK to have a few alcoholic drinks when pregnant you are running a serious risk of giving birth to a child who is misdiagnosed with ADHD or pervasive learning disorder and making your life a misery for the next thirty years.

When I first became aware of this problem in society at the time in the US gaols (2000) 40% were said to be there as a result of their mothers drinking when pregnant. Social workers had a saying for it: the boys get locked up, the girls get knocked up.

The alcohol industry here has knowingly not followed some precedents from the United States and put warning labels on bottles and it is quite tragic and turns my stomach when I see a visibly pregnant woman drinking.

Unfortunately most female party goers do not realize they are pregnant for six weeks by which case they are behind the eight ball even if they stop drinking immediately as most damage is done when the fetus is in embryonic stage.

This has catastrophic results in disadvantaged groups, particularly aborigines but is not rare among educated but uninformed people. I know for a fact that the Queensland governments recommendation is that two standard drinks a day is RECOMMENDED!!!!!!!!! WTF?????

If it is okay for a daily drinker to have two then how many are not going to do any harm after a few, then a few more!!!

If you don't believe it do some research. I speak from close knowledge and it ain't nice!

It may also go some way toward answering why it is that some kids you know just cannot behave.

The alchohol industry has a huge hold on a lid just waiting to blow. Tobacco is not good for mums but it does not result in brain damage (that I know of anyway).

Japie is not exagerating.

Wifey is a paediatric nurse and sees these cases on a daily basis.

The bubs/kids that come from disadvantaged and dodgy backgrounds are easier to spot but it is a syndrome that is truly widespread accross the spectrum as Ozzies love a bit of nectar. Kids from better backgrounds usually have better schooling,tutors/families to help overcome the hurdles, but the hurdles needn't be there.

Up to a decade ago having a couple of drinks during pregnancy was thought no harm at all, hell even getting shellacked a few times in the 9 months was thought to do little harm. 100% wrong.

All the research shows that even a very small amount of alchohol during pregnancy has significant affects. These affects are life long.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_alcohol_syndrome

embryology.med.unsw.edu.au/Defect/page5a.htm


As Japie says unfortunately a lot of damage is done by women who don't evenb realise they are preggo at the time. Tragic.

Although I - in the great Oz tradition - love a bit of sauce, wifey has never been a drinker. At times socially I have thought it a pain in the butt, these days I mostly admire her for it, and am sooo thankful that she didn't drink regularly/heavily before, during or after the pregnancy.

Who out there thinks a preggo mum smoking is ok? Then why would introducing alchohol to the babies blood system/intake be ok? Sorry but in this day and age - if you have a bump and suck down the suds - you probably deserve the scorn afforded to preggo women who suck on tar.

Wifey has a friend I find extremely annoying and downright ignorant. She is one of the most opinionated but least informed people I have ever met. Having also met her family and knowing her mum and dad's love of the sauce (and they do LOVE it) without doubt the daughter is a FAS kid. Her sister, the same. They are around 40 and were products of a differant era. They are both from affluent backgrounds and their parents have always lived it up - BIG. The offspring are damaged I am sure of it (there are several indicators including physical).

It is fortunate that most preggo women have their taste buds turned upside down during preggo and former delights like coffee, wine etc suddenly become unappealing. Probably nature's way of stearing away from trouble.

10-20 yrs from now we will probably look back on generations that didn't adhere to zero grog during pregnancy/breast feeding in the same way we scoff at doctors doing adds for ciggies and the love Oz once had for asbestos.

Ozzies (and we aren't alone in this) remain blissfully unaware of the huge damge alchohol does to ourselves, our society and our future.

As I said I enjoy a few bevvies and occasionally wearing a lampshade and dancing like Peter Garret but (unlike the big media whipping boys; smack, pills, speed and even ciggies) no-one want to face up to the huge financial and widespread costs that a saturation of alchohol culture does.

Everything in moderation.

Good post Japie.

The women are only part of the equation,......Us boozed blokes,

appendages swollen with illicit drugs and alkeyhole pressuring the

ladies for a game of hide the sausage after a party. We contribute

big problems in the egg factory.

To be born as a result of one coupling such as this, is less than a

great start to life.

No one can select their Parents. Its a game of chance , some make it

others don't. All fetuses deserve an even start to life...or abort.

So instead of :
a) making his kids take personal responsibility for stealing a car and endangering other peoples lives, or
b) taking the responsibility for his children's actions himself

he chooses

c) blame someone else

The worst part is the kids will think that it doesn't matter what they do in life, it's never going to be their fault.

I worry when bad behaviour is medicalised.
Certianly there are probably circumstances that permit the 'unsoundness of mind' defence but i believe they are rare.

Bad behaviour is exactly that - bad behaviour - and kids who know no boundaries or have never experienced consequences of their actions are more prone to acting out

Kids need stability, security, boundaries, rules and consequences not fkn dexamphetamines or medical diagnosis for bad behaviour

Japie is 100% correct m***********s!

"Fetal alcohol exposure is the leading known cause of mental retardation in the Western world.In the United States and Europe the FAS prevalence rate is estimated to be nearly one in every 100 live births."

I thought this was common knowledge nowadays? Look, it's even on the internet now:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fetal_alcohol_syndrome

Japie said...the alchohol industry STILL holds power over logic.

Does it or what? And how about cigarettes? Statistically marijuana is far, far safer than alcohol, yet it is still illegal (except here in SA?). Now I'm in no way saying it is completely safe, but what I'm saying is that people seem so dogmatically stuck on valuing opinion over fact.

It's funny, I've got relatives that would freak if they saw me smoking a quiet spliff in Australia, but photos of us doing same in Amsterdam are funny.

I digress, sorry. You wouldn't get your toddler drunk, so why would you get your unborn baby drunk?

getfunky said...

All the research shows that even a very small amount of alchohol during pregnancy has significant affects. These affects are life long.

evlPanda said...

I digress, sorry. You wouldn't get your toddler drunk, so why would you get your unborn baby drunk?

I think there is a world of difference between a "small amount of alcohol" and getting sh!tfaced. I think what we have here is an example of intensification. We get indications that pregnant women getting sh!tfaced is bad and then just expand that to say that all alcohol during pregnancy is bad. I say "beat-up".

Reminds me of the other beat-up - that saturated fats are bad because they produce high cholesterol leading to coronary heat disease. OK... except that the French eat incredible quantities of butter. Some parts of France, food is routinely fried in duck fat and they use lots of butter and cream (HUGE saturated fat content). Result? A population with a very low incidence of coronary heart disease.

WTF?

The medicos call that "the French paradox". Paradox my hairy backside! Obviously they don't properly understand what is going on. I'll stick to the population studies as represented by the European experience thanks.

japie said

When I first became aware of this problem in society at the time in the US gaols (2000) 40% were said to be there as a result of their mothers drinking when pregnant.

I think 40% were there because they probably committed a crime.

or the odd ciggy then?

or the odd line?

i worked with a bogan chick that said the only thing that cured her morning sickness were 'buckets'

stupid bogan feral

maxm said...

getfunky said...

or the odd ciggy then?

getfunky said...

or the odd scoob?

getfunky said...

or the odd line?

GF, none of those are the same as one or two drinks and you know it. You cheapen your argument just by raising them. For the record - no, I don't endorse anyone having the odd ciggy, scoob and certainly not a line, whether they're male or female, pregnant or not. But neither am I endorsing putting a huge guilt trip on a young pregnant woman just because she likes a glass of wine occasionally.

dude, I think that is what he is saying. Just because our culture says it's ok doesn't mean it is. 30 years ago it was considered culturally ok to drink and drive. not so now.
There is a high level of concern among specialists about the current guidelines of alchohol and pregnancy.
It's not worth the risk. http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/186_01_010107/whi10623_fm.pdf

myusernam said...

dude, I think that is what he is saying. Just because our culture says it's ok doesn't mean it is. 30 years ago it was considered culturally ok to drink and drive. not so now.

Mate, dunno about Queensland but here in NSW it is perfectly acceptable to drink and drive - both culturally and legally - as long as you don't exceed the legal limit. I went to a mates barbie yesterday afternoon and probably 40 people did exactly that. I drove home after having one beer and one glass of wine over the space of about 5 hours.

It's all about moderation, you see.

maxm said...

getfunky said...

or the odd ciggy then?

getfunky said...

or the odd scoob?

getfunky said...

or the odd line?

GF, none of those are the same as one or two drinks and you know it. You cheapen your argument just by raising them. For the record - no, I don't endorse anyone having the odd ciggy, scoob and certainly not a line, whether they're male or female, pregnant or not. But neither am I endorsing putting a huge guilt trip on a young pregnant woman just because she likes a glass of wine occasionally.

I was just trying to highlight how alchohol in our society gets very little attention to it's detrimental effects.

I think your answer actually reinforces my point. Alarm bells went off at the ciggies, scoob and lines but not alchohol? Why? The grog may well be the most harmful, certainly more harm to foetal development than tar, smack etc. Think I'm exaggerating? Nope.

All of us would scowl seeing a preggo lady sucking on tar (even if it's only one a day) but not a glass of wine?

Fact is 1-2 drinks a day is far more harmful to foetal development than a few ciggies a day.

It is a shame the knowledge isn't out there and that our society turns a complete blind eye to the harm, as most mothers (not breakky-bucket-boguns maybe) would chose not to drink at all if they actually knew the harm.

I'm not trying to judge BTW - just spread the news. As I said I am ever thankful my wife chose not to drink and am embarrassed that 8 yrs ago I was encouraging her to have "Just one glass of wine" while she was up the duff.

getfunky said...

All of us would scowl seeing a preggo lady sucking on tar (even if it's only one a day)

...well actually no, I wouldn't. I'm not her doctor and I'm not her father. While I might or might not have my own private thoughts, I figure it'd be her lookout and none of my business. So there'd be no scowling involved.

getfunky said...

Fact is 1-2 drinks a day is far more harmful to foetal development than a few ciggies a day.

...which you've previously said causes no harm at all. So how much more is far more? 0.000001% is far more than nothing. Is it worth worrying about? For me, probably not. Others can make up their own minds as suits their personal situation.

getfunky said...

It is a shame the knowledge isn't out there and that our society turns a complete blind eye to the harm, as most mothers (not breakky-bucket-boguns maybe) would chose not to drink at all if they actually knew the harm.

...and good on them if they choose that. But again, I kinda feel it's their choice and none of my business.

getfunky said...

I'm not trying to judge BTW - just spread the news.

which in itself is fine. But then why choose to be so alarmist?

myusernam said...

maxm said...

myusernam said...

dude, I think that is what he is saying. Just because our culture says it's ok doesn't mean it is. 30 years ago it was considered culturally ok to drink and drive. not so now.

Mate, dunno about Queensland but here in NSW it is perfectly acceptable to drink and drive - both culturally and legally - as long as you don't exceed the legal limit. I went to a mates barbie yesterday afternoon and probably 40 people did exactly that. I drove home after having one beer and one glass of wine over the space of about 5 hours.

It's all about moderation, you see.

the whole point of this thread is that there is growing medical evidence to suggest that alchohol even in moderation whilst pregnant causes the baby harm.

As usual someone has said it better than I in 20% (percentage is great) the space I have.