I see lots of people leave their diesel engines running while going into shops and stuff.

During a recent road trip some guys at the servo left their ute running while they filled up with fuel, bought drinks, took a piss etc. Why?

most of times it's because it's a turbo D and needs to cool down before being turned off (especially after a long drive)

Owners fit "turbo timers"on them. Cuts the engine off after a set time.

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seanhogan said..
most of times it's because it's a turbo D and needs to cool down before being turned off (especially after a long drive)

Owners fit "turbo timers"on them. Cuts the engine off after a set time.

I've always wondered about the legality of the turbo timers. Is there was a law against leaving your vehicle running?

I don't think an old bugger sitting in a late model German diesel car in the suburbs is going to have a turbo timer. A bunch of young dudes in a tricked up ute loaded with bikes might have one. I can't imagine the turbo getting hot enough on a freeway to need cooling down.

As the owner of a servo, people that leave the motor running when fueling piss us off. There are signs at the fuel pumps that say "Turn of engine when refueling". When you ask them to shut it down they sometimes argue with you. If something goes wrong, we may be out of business for a while. We also get the lazy ones that park in the forecourt, right at the door to the shop with the motor running, blocking access to the pumps, just to come in and get smokes or a drink, again a sign saying "No parking in driveway.
The usual excuses for the motor left running are:
It's got a turbo Timer (I think that turbo timers on cars these days are just a gimmick)
My missus wants the aircon left on.
The battery is stuffed, if I turn it off it wont start.

When they tell me its the Turbo timer I tell them to park over there out of the way until it cools down, they then get pissed off and go somewhere else.

well if they leave their car with the engine running to go shopping, it probably means they have a turbo timer... I doubt they would leave the car with the key on the ignition.... ??

It's mostly to prevent cooking the oil in the turbocharger.

My Iload has that sticker on the door :

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Gorgo said..
I don't think an old bugger sitting in a late model German diesel car in the suburbs is going to have a turbo timer. A bunch of young dudes in a tricked up ute loaded with bikes might have one. I can't imagine the turbo getting hot enough on a freeway to need cooling down.

It is not to "cool down"

It is because turbos spin at ridiculously hi revs and when you turn the engine off the turbo continues to spin. There is no longer any oil flowing, and the bearings overheat big time, causing the residual oil in them to burn. Then you turbo wears out rather quickly and costs a lot of $$$.

All turbo's need to idle for 30 sec to a minute after running at a continuous speed of 80, or after very fast acceleration then the time you actually drove for is irrelevant (like if you drive 0-150 as fast as you cna and turn it off you are asking for trouble)
The old German dude doesn't need to as after he gets off the freeway he dawdles into the residential streets or hi rise carpark and that is enough idle-down.

Turbo timers are far from a gimmick.

However I see plenty of cars running outside shops in the country - and they're not turbos. It is laziness and some sort of belief that nobody pinches cars in the country

just had one guy sacked at my workplace in PNG for that last week.
Got outta the truck with engine running on timer mode.
W

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Mark _australia said..

Gorgo said..
I don't think an old bugger sitting in a late model German diesel car in the suburbs is going to have a turbo timer. A bunch of young dudes in a tricked up ute loaded with bikes might have one. I can't imagine the turbo getting hot enough on a freeway to need cooling down.

It is not to "cool down"

It is because turbos spin at ridiculously hi revs and when you turn the engine off the turbo continues to spin. There is no longer any oil flowing, and the bearings overheat big time, causing the residual oil in them to burn. Then you turbo wears out rather quickly and costs a lot of $$$.

All turbo's need to idle for 30 sec to a minute after running at a continuous speed of 80, or after very fast acceleration then the time you actually drove for is irrelevant (like if you drive 0-150 as fast as you cna and turn it off you are asking for trouble)
The old German dude doesn't need to as after he gets off the freeway he dawdles into the residential streets or hi rise carpark and that is enough idle-down.

Turbo timers are far from a gimmick.

However I see plenty of cars running outside shops in the country - and they're not turbos. It is laziness and some sort of belief that nobody pinches cars in the country

Question -- turbos run on exhaust gas flow, so if the engine is at idle and the turbo isn't spun up, couldn't you just turn the car off anyway? I always thought the idea of a turbo timer was to keep the oil and coolant moving and get it delievered to the vitals...

So how do you keep the aircon running for the kids while at the shops if you turn your car off

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Mark _australia said...
Turbo timers are far from a gimmick.

My first car was a WRX and every car i've owned since has had a turbo (or 2!) running more boost and turbo timers are a load of rubbish. They are just for wank factor just like loud blow off valves. I know, i had both.

No one drives under WOT / boost immediately before turning a car off do they? Usually they are pulling into a carpark / servo / house / wherever and they certainly aren't on boost are they and by the time you stop, it's been off boost for at least 30sec to a minute.

Using a good quality full synthetic oil will offer far more protection than a TT ever will.

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Harrow said..

seanhogan said..
most of times it's because it's a turbo D and needs to cool down before being turned off (especially after a long drive)

Owners fit "turbo timers"on them. Cuts the engine off after a set time.

I've always wondered about the legality of the turbo timers. Is there was a law against leaving your vehicle running?

I knew there was something so I had a poke around.

181. Making motor vehicle secure(1)A driver of a motor vehicle shall not stop and leave the motor vehicle without first —
(a)stopping the engine; and
(b)effectively applying the brake; and
(c)if weather or road conditions would prevent the effective operation of the brake — effectively restraining the vehicle’s movements in another way.

If the driver of a motor vehicle stops and leaves the motor vehicle, and a person 16 years of age or older does not remain in or with the motor vehicle, the driver shall also secure the motor vehicle by —
(a)locking the ignition, if any; and
(b)removing the ignition key, if any; and
(c)locking the doors — if the doors of the vehicle can be locked; and
(d) securing the windows — if the windows of the vehicle can be secured, unless the driver has only temporarily left the motor vehicle to pay a fee for parking that motor vehicle.

A person having the control of, or being in charge of, a vehicle to which is fitted any appliance capable of being raised or lowered shall not leave the vehicle stopped unless —
(a) the appliance has been placed in its lowest practicable position; and
(b) every precaution has been taken to prevent injury to persons or damage to property arising from the inherent nature of the appliance and the fact of the vehicle being unattended.
(4) For the purposes of this regulation —
(a) a person leaves a vehicle if the person is more than 3 m from the closest point of the vehicle; and
(b) an appliance includes a fork lift, loader, pushbar, scraper, blade, jib or similar device; and
(c)a window is secure even if it is open by up to 2 cm.

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seanhogan said...
well if they leave their car with the engine running to go shopping, it probably means they have a turbo timer... I doubt they would leave the car with the key on the ignition.... ??

It's mostly to prevent cooking the oil in the turbocharger.

My Iload has that sticker on the door :

They must have had too many people racing with their Iload to write that

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Mark _australia said..

Gorgo said..
I don't think an old bugger sitting in a late model German diesel car in the suburbs is going to have a turbo timer. A bunch of young dudes in a tricked up ute loaded with bikes might have one. I can't imagine the turbo getting hot enough on a freeway to need cooling down.

It is not to "cool down"

It is because turbos spin at ridiculously hi revs and when you turn the engine off the turbo continues to spin. There is no longer any oil flowing, and the bearings overheat big time, causing the residual oil in them to burn. Then you turbo wears out rather quickly and costs a lot of $$$.

All turbo's need to idle for 30 sec to a minute after running at a continuous speed of 80, or after very fast acceleration then the time you actually drove for is irrelevant (like if you drive 0-150 as fast as you cna and turn it off you are asking for trouble)
The old German dude doesn't need to as after he gets off the freeway he dawdles into the residential streets or hi rise carpark and that is enough idle-down.

Turbo timers are far from a gimmick.

However I see plenty of cars running outside shops in the country - and they're not turbos. It is laziness and some sort of belief that nobody pinches cars in the country

I think it is to cool down. The idea I have always read, and used to read in 'Turbo Australia' many years ago was that after a decent run there is a certain amount of heat soak in the turbo and turning it off immediately after a decent amount of heat (i.e. on decent boost for a while) results in the oil coking as it absorbs a lot of that heat.

Supposedly water cooled turbos have made this less of a problem, and idling it down for a little while is enough to remove a lot of the heat. As MDSXR6T says, how many people are fanging it and then turn off into the petrol station. Not many I am sure.

I see a lot of people leaving diesels running in the morning while they buy papers/coffee/cigarettes. I have always assumed it is because they are lazy and they want to warm the car up. Its in the city, so its not as if car thefts are low. The only thing that would help that is that they are usually tradie type utes so not really targetted as cars to steal.

unless you have just flogged the crap out of your diesel in sand or similar just turn it off.
i turn it off waiting at food take away, lights etc

Leave your car running back in the uk, and you'll be running up the road trying to get it back

School buses drop the kids off here for swimming lessons, more than half the drivers leave the engines running for the whole lesson. It's not for the air-conditioning, because they get out of the bus and leave the doors open.

I think in the early days they were or might have been required because the turbos were ****e. But these days i think not otherwise the 200 million + Navaras, hilux's etc would all come out of the factory with 'em plus every other turbo diesel vehicle on the market now.

My turbo navara doesn't have one nor does the user manual tell me that i must idle for 1 min or so before i shut down.

Bit like a blow off valve for tossers, fashion of the time

Sometimes people leave them running for other reasons .each time you crank a oiler they draw a lot of power from your battery.were & tear on glow plugs ,pre heating timer.etc.smart people .

If you can't afford a bit of wear and tear on the car, you can't afford the car

I got red-thumbed cos I was wrong, or cos I don't buy into the Ozone Kool-aid?

Yeah no worries, something that spins at up to 150,000 RPM (yes 5x faster than your roooly fast Dremel tool, 30x faster than your diesel engine etc) just magically slows down all by itself in 5 seconds, when you pull into a roadside servo after doing hours and hours on the highway. And I am the queen of Sheba

Granted, the roooly fast revs are under load, maybe it is doing 10,000rpm on the highway but look at it this way:

If you could stop the oil circulating in your engine - just turn off the oil pump - would you turn it off 1 min before you get home?
I bet you wouldn't. So why leave your turbo spinning real fast with no oil and therefore cooling?

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Mark _australia said...
slows down all by itself in 5 seconds, when you pull into a roadside servo after doing hours and hours on the highway. And I am the queen of Sheba

Turbo's spool under load and hours and hours sitting on 110km isn't under load unless your accelerating. Boost gauges show this clearly. Anyway by the time you slow down, take the exit, drive slowly through the carpark, the turbo (especially a ball bearing turbo running high quality full synthetic oil) will be fine.

This is what happens when a turbo gets just a bit HOT.....

www.facebook.com/DPTISA/videos/990118201040490/

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Chris6791 said..


I knew there was something so I had a poke around.

181. Making motor vehicle secure(1)A driver of a motor vehicle shall not stop and leave the motor vehicle without first —
...
...
...

If the driver of a motor vehicle stops and leaves the motor vehicle, and a person 16 years of age or older does not remain in or with the motor vehicle, the driver shall also secure the motor vehicle by —
(a)locking the ignition, if any; and
(b)removing the ignition key, if any; and
(c)locking the doors — if the doors of the vehicle can be locked; and
(d) securing the windows — if the windows of the vehicle can be secured, unless the driver has only temporarily left the motor vehicle to pay a fee for parking that motor vehicle.

For the last 30 odd years I've parked at my local shops, and walked in to buy a couple of groceries without doing up the windows or locking the doors. Seems I've been breaking the law all that time.

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MDSXR6T said..

Mark _australia said...
slows down all by itself in 5 seconds, when you pull into a roadside servo after doing hours and hours on the highway. And I am the queen of Sheba

Turbo's spool under load and hours and hours sitting on 110km isn't under load unless your accelerating. Boost gauges show this clearly. Anyway by the time you slow down, take the exit, drive slowly through the carpark, the turbo (especially a ball bearing turbo running high quality full synthetic oil) will be fine.

Not to forget that turbo whine...

I find it very hard to believe that you cannot simply turn off a turbo diesel engine after cruising along at 110 kph on a freeway. Maybe after doing a hot lap on Mt Panorama, but definitely not in any ordinary driving situation. It would be impractical and nonsensical to expect people to hang around and wait for a turbo to stop spinning during ordinary driving.

Even my petrol Subaru barely cracks 3000 rpm during freeway cruising. The load on the engine is minimal. Even towing a load the engine hardly works unless I stomp the accelerator.

Given that most turbo diesel cars have stop-start engine technology then the default position for the vehicle at rest is going to be engine off for a lot of driving.

Given the lack of definitive answers to this question I can only assume the obvious answer. Wankers at the wheel.

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MDSXR6T said..

Mark _australia said...
slows down all by itself in 5 seconds, when you pull into a roadside servo after doing hours and hours on the highway. And I am the queen of Sheba

Turbo's spool under load and hours and hours sitting on 110km isn't under load unless your accelerating. Boost gauges show this clearly. Anyway by the time you slow down, take the exit, drive slowly through the carpark, the turbo (especially a ball bearing turbo running high quality full synthetic oil) will be fine.

If you read both my posts you will see I do acknowledge that if you slow down and take the exit then do a carpark etc then of course no idling down is required.

However this thread started with talking about getting off the highway at 110 and pulling into a servo. That is 10sec and I don't think it is enough.
I would rather just let it run a little bit, it can't hurt.

Same I always eave my rig running. I always remember the taxi scenario,.. my mate picked up an old taxi that had almost a million clicks and was still going strong because they rarely turn them off, just constantly idling. 90% of damage to an engine is on start up.

My old man was a diesel fitter since Jesus played for Collingwood and he swears by leaving them running.

The worst are bus drivers. They've dropped off or are waiting for a load of kids on an excursion to the national park. Or a load of tourists for a 20 minute break at the lookout/kiosk. Do you reckon they can turn off the engine as they lean on the bumper having smoke? They know how the sound and smell of an idling diesel can permeate every corner of a scenic stopover. I think it's a look-at-me I drive a big machine sort of thing.

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Gazuki said..

Same I always eave my rig running. I always remember the taxi scenario,.. my mate picked up an old taxi that had almost a million clicks and was still going strong because they rarely turn them off, just constantly idling. 90% of damage to an engine is on start up.

My old man was a diesel fitter since Jesus played for Collingwood and he swears by leaving them running.

That's the start of a good answer, but why? What tangible benefit is there other than, "My dad says so."