Diesel engines left running?

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Created by

Gorgo > 9 months ago, 20 Sep 2015

Chris6791

3271 posts

22 Sep 2015 2:29pm

Do idling vehicles with headlights and other electrics running produce enough power off the alternator? Or are they also drawing off the battery?

My motorbike at idle draws from the battery rather than charge it.

mineral1

4564 posts

22 Sep 2015 2:40pm

^^^^
Chris, the new age systems, only has alternators charge when needed. Its supposed to be a fuel saving idea

But a huge pain in the youknow whatsit to anybody wanting to enhance the battery numbers in the modern vehicles.

mineral1

4564 posts

22 Sep 2015 2:42pm

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GreenPat said..

Gorgo said..
Not forums, or someone's mate, or "I had ....".

I blew up two turbos on Atlas Copco MT5020 trucks. Rule on site was to idle down for a minute before stopping, I always thought I did that. Maybe I did, maybe I didn't...

Typical

That's cos it was an MT5020 and not a Caterpillar

mineral1

4564 posts

22 Sep 2015 2:48pm

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cauncy said..
my bros latest top of the range diesel turns off whenever he stops, ie traffic lights, conjestion, major intersections, this is an automatic economy /environmental option, so carnt see why a major manufacturer would produce them if it cost them on warranty claims

cauncy, I had the use of one of these a while back. Very funny for about a micro second, then it became a pain in the coit

Nothing more annoying when you want to give the hard peddle a good work out, and the starter is still kicking out as it goes up in RPM.
The vehicle had from memory about 3500 k's on it and in that time had saved about $7.50 in fuel. Starter I reckon no matter what they say, will give up the ghost, and blow that $7.50 into the distant past

Biggest gimmick on the consumer in a long time.

Gorgo

VIC

5108 posts

22 Sep 2015 5:56pm

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mineral1 said..

cauncy, I had the use of one of these a while back. Very funny for about a micro second, then it became a pain in the coit

Biggest gimmick on the consumer in a long time.

I've haven't driven a stop-start vehicle enough to form an opinion, but I drive with a cruise control all the time, including in the suburbs. It all works fine once you understand the technology and use it appropriately.

I test drove a car with stop-start. It has a button to turn it on and off. It was easy to engage it or disengage it whenever you wanted.

sotired

602 posts

22 Sep 2015 5:25pm

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Chris6791 said..
Do idling vehicles with headlights and other electrics running produce enough power off the alternator? Or are they also drawing off the battery?

My motorbike at idle draws from the battery rather than charge it.

My understanding is that modern cars with EFI should provide a decent amount of power even at idle. They need to be able to run all the electrical loads, without a battery, including all the computers, lights, and the thermo fan(s). Which is still quite a decent power draw.

They don't produce the full rating at idle of course, which can be around 130 amps flat out, but they still provide a decent amount.

Kamikuza

QLD

6493 posts

22 Sep 2015 11:38pm

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Ian K said..

Kamikuza said..
I don't see that as any more dishonest than all the other manufacturers who set the engine management computers to run as lean as possible in the range of throttle position and rpm that emissions test use...

Yes but the throttle positions and rpm in the test procedures are designed to replicate typical driving. (I worked for a bit at the vehicle testing station at Altona, the drive cycle includes a good dose of throttle, more than many of us would use in the real world). Can't see that optimising the emissions for typical driving (even if it is as determined by the testers) is anything but reasonable.

This is something else altogether.

Yes, it's quite something else! But it's the same kind of dishonest, I reckon.

Emissions testing here is done at a couple of RPM points, so bikes are typically have very lean settings right in those ranges. It's arbitrary data points, decided on by a commission, and in no way reflect real-world typical driving...

sn

2775 posts

22 Sep 2015 10:15pm

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Kamikuza said..I don't see that as any more dishonest than all the other manufacturers ..

On a related note - today [on the AM wireless

] a legal type bloke was commenting about VW being caught out being dishonest, and mentioned a recent case in Kiwi country where a fella took FOMOCO to court when his Cougar didn't get the milage that Ford's propaganda said it should - and he won!

Now THAT would be bound to worry the car manufacturers!

stephen

Kamikuza

QLD

6493 posts

23 Sep 2015 12:51pm

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sn said..

Kamikuza said..I don't see that as any more dishonest than all the other manufacturers ..

On a related note - today [on the AM wireless

Good on him!

Last International trip, we got a Corolla Fielder to the airport, and the hybrid version on the way back home. The hybrid used more gas, by about a third!

Chris6791

3271 posts

23 Sep 2015 11:47am

My Focus has manufacturer mileage at 7.1l/100km. I routinely get 6.1 and have got as low as 5.2 on a tank. On the other hand my beach bunky Rodeo gets about 2 litres oil per 5000km and 1 litre of coolant per 100km.

Mark _australia

23526 posts

23 Sep 2015 11:52am

Sounds like it is time you used your right foot Chris.

Chris6791

3271 posts

23 Sep 2015 12:48pm

...and drive the Rodeo to the wreckers?

seanhogan

QLD

3424 posts

23 Sep 2015 4:17pm

my iload should do 700 km on a tank, only does 600, but who cares : I run it on cooked oil.

My favourite is when I use oil from the chinese restaurant, hummmm that springroll smell !!!

jeff2

221 posts

23 Sep 2015 3:04pm

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Chris6791 said..

jeff2 said..
Fitting a turbo timer to any vehicle under 4500 GVM. (gross vehicle mass) in Western Australia , is illegal if the car is less than 25 years old .
The state requires you to have an immobiliser which conforms to government regulations.
This means that as soon as you remove the key from the ignition , or turn the vehicle off and vacate the vehicle , then the immobiliser must self-activate within 30 seconds.
Also they are seen as dangerous as it is possible to lock the steering by removing the key, then drive off without realising that you have no steering, because you are sitting on your keys in your back pocket.

Does that make it illegal to fit them, or just illegal to use them if the vehicle is unattended for a determined period?

I went digging for the requirements of immobilisers (not easy by the way), WA legislation just refers to other documents. There are Australian Standards which cover it, but they aren't easy to find without paying $$$. I did find the EU standards which are also applicable in WA and it mentions a self-arming within 1 minute requirement.

"8.3.4. Setting of the immobiliser

8.3.4.1.The immobiliser must be set without supplementary action from the driver by at least one of the following means:
(a)at rotation of the ignition key into the ‘0’ position in the ignition lock and activation of a door; in addition, immobilisers which unset immediately before or during the normal starting procedure of the vehicle are permitted to set on turning the ignition off;

(b)a maximum of 1 minute after removing the key of the ignition lock.

8.3.4.2.If the immobiliser can enter the set state when the ignition key is in the engine running mode as provided for in paragraph

8.2.4, the immobiliser may also be set by the opening of the driver’s door and/or the authorised user carrying out a deliberate action."

~~http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX:42010X0630~~(07)

State regulations are foremost when applying the rules and WA requires that a government approved immobiliser be fitted to all vehicles under 25 years old .
This state also has the regulations that no vehicle (under4500GVM) shall be fitted with such a device which allows the vehicle to be left running unattended.

SandS

VIC

5904 posts

23 Sep 2015 7:30pm

Slow news day ?or days ? .... Three pages on turbo cooling ....

CrossStep

210 posts

23 Sep 2015 7:48pm

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mineral1 said..
^^^^
Chris, the new age systems, only has alternators charge when needed. Its supposed to be a fuel saving idea

But a huge pain in the youknow whatsit to anybody wanting to enhance the battery numbers in the modern vehicles.

I know with our Diesel the alternator won't kick in until the battery is down to around 20% and we can have "alternator thingy inhibiter disconnected" if we want it to run as standard, for additional electrics. Also I like to run the engine for around 1 min in the morning (cold climate) and a couple of mins after long runs. Does it do any good? Don't know, but its not doing any harm.

Chris6791

3271 posts

23 Sep 2015 11:10pm

What regulation are you specifically referring to jeff2? Because every vehicle can be left running unattended without anything extra being fitted.

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