I guess "The Bible" of bitcoin is the 8 page white paper: bitcoin.org/bitcoin.pdf

Abstract.
A purely peer-to-peer version of electronic cash would allow online payments to be sent directly from one party to another without going through a financial institution. Digital signatures provide part of the solution, but the main benefits are lost if a trusted third party is still required to prevent double-spending. We propose a solution to the double-spending problem using a peer-to-peer network. The network timestamps transactions by hashing them into an ongoing chain of hash-based proof-of-work, forming a record that cannot be changed without redoing the proof-of-work. The longest chain not only serves as proof of the sequence of events witnessed, but proof that it came from the largest pool of CPU power. As long as a majority of CPU power is controlled by nodes that are not cooperating to attack the network, they'll generate the longest chain and outpace attackers. The network itself requires minimal structure. Messages are broadcast on a best effort basis, and nodes can leave and rejoin the network at will, accepting the longest proof-of-work chain as proof of what happened while they were gone.

When is started this thread i bought two ethereum they were about 670 now the 2 of them are worth 987.....

Will it keep going?????

Im kicking myself for not buying 4-5 of them but in the same token you dont make anything if it goes down and you run the risk of losing it all....

I reckon Ethereum is snake oil.

Firstly, and most importantly, do you understand Ethereum? Really? Sum it up in a paragraph.

That seems, to me, is what is creating the hype; people don't understand it but that must mean that it's really technical and really smart people have made it and it's the future and it's beyond my comprehension so that makes me anxious and the only way to alleviate than anxiety is to buy it. Perhaps. Certainly is for some percentage of people buying it.

Second, I can't explain my take on it any better than this article.
medium.com/startup-grind/i-was-wrong-about-ethereum-804c9a906d36

It looks dodgy as hell, to me anyway, at the moment. I mean what is *actually* running on that platform? There are some alpha releases, perhaps a beta (wow!), and *nothing else*. I've tried Aragon and it just falls over on me. What is the actual business case for ethereum, in particular the way they are selling it?

Yes, banks and corporations really are running it, but that is a *copy* of it; their own instance on their own private servers.

Haven't quite got my head around it yet so I can't comment further but there's something very dodgy, and apparently entirely illegal, around how they are raising the money with ICOs like that. Something about not satisfying something something in legal jargon.

I'll wait for the fallout : )

But if you're just speculating/gambling with money you can afford to lose, and you're up, go for it!

Bitcoin is really simple in comparison. It does one thing well.

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Razzonater said..
you dont make anything if it goes down and you run the risk of losing it all....

You've clearly got a firm grasp of the fundamentals Razz,
Warren Buffett would be impressed

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Hunter S said..

Razzonater said..
you dont make anything if it goes down and you run the risk of losing it all....

You've clearly got a firm grasp of the fundamentals Razz,
Warren Buffett would be impressed

It would be interesting if Warren Buffett is into it himself? It is my understanding that he is into something more akin to bricks and tiles, or railways, etc.

Not wanting to take the shine off anyone who is on his way to become a rich amigo, but I often think such new ventures just do not sit right with me. they don't actually produce a single grain of wheat, or a single gram of meat, but purely on hypes and speculations. I suppose you can ride on the high, but when to get out before the low can be tricky.

May be that is why I am not a rich person to this day !

I'm issuing TURDCOIN at $10,000 each. They are my personal poos which are autographed and baked at 300 degrees for 24 hours making them rock hard. Unlike bitcoin they are not virtual but real turds. Each turdcoin can be genetically tested to prove it came out of my arse (not to be confused with fool's turd) which guarantees it's rarity as I can only sh%t so much so get your orders in quick.

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Jupiter said..

Hunter S said..

Razzonater said..
you dont make anything if it goes down and you run the risk of losing it all....

You've clearly got a firm grasp of the fundamentals Razz,
Warren Buffett would be impressed

It would be interesting if Warren Buffett is into it himself? It is my understanding that he is into something more akin to bricks and tiles, or railways, etc.

Not wanting to take the shine off anyone who is on his way to become a rich amigo, but I often think such new ventures just do not sit right with me. they don't actually produce a single grain of wheat, or a single gram of meat, but purely on hypes and speculations. I suppose you can ride on the high, but when to get out before the low can be tricky.

May be that is why I am not a rich person to this day !

Buffet would not buy them as they are not a business and generate no income, he only invests in businesses that generate a big profit, read his stuff and comments on virtual currencies.

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Little Jon said..
I'm issuing TURDCOIN at $10,000 each. They are my personal poos which are autographed and baked at 300 degrees for 24 hours making them rock hard. Unlike bitcoin they are not virtual but real turds. Each turdcoin can be genetically tested to prove it came out of my arse (not to be confused with fool's turd) which guarantees it's rarity as I can only sh%t so much so get your orders in quick.

Are they gift-wrapped? Are only a limited number is produced (crapped) ? How can an interested investor like myself know that once that limited number is reached, you stop crapping ?

If the above are satisfactorily answered, then here are my bank details..

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Jupiter said..

Little Jon said..
I'm issuing TURDCOIN at $10,000 each. They are my personal poos which are autographed and baked at 300 degrees for 24 hours making them rock hard. Unlike bitcoin they are not virtual but real turds. Each turdcoin can be genetically tested to prove it came out of my arse (not to be confused with fool's turd) which guarantees it's rarity as I can only sh%t so much so get your orders in quick.

Are they gift-wrapped? Are only a limited number is produced (crapped) ? How can an interested investor like myself know that once that limited number is reached, you stop crapping ?

If the above are satisfactorily answered, then here are my bank details..

Like bitcoin more will be produced and sold but as long as demand outstrips supply, price will rise

I don't think the crypto currencies are currencies because they are not issued by a nation's sovereign bank and if you go down to Westpac they won't buy them.
It's more like buying gold or diamonds but much easier to create as they are just computer files and lots of people can create new brands but harder to produce a new rare mineral.

However as long as the price keeps rising people will make profits from buying and selling them.

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Little Jon said..

Jupiter said..

Little Jon said..
I'm issuing TURDCOIN at $10,000 each. They are my personal poos which are autographed and baked at 300 degrees for 24 hours making them rock hard. Unlike bitcoin they are not virtual but real turds. Each turdcoin can be genetically tested to prove it came out of my arse (not to be confused with fool's turd) which guarantees it's rarity as I can only sh%t so much so get your orders in quick.

Are they gift-wrapped? Are only a limited number is produced (crapped) ? How can an interested investor like myself know that once that limited number is reached, you stop crapping ?

If the above are satisfactorily answered, then here are my bank details..

Like bitcoin more will be produced and sold but as long as demand outstrips supply, price will rise

Well...The only way I can see you being able to produce more of the "highly sought after" investment is you need to crap more. Input = Output. More Input = More Output. Does it mean you will need to eat more and more frequently ? That is a fearful scenario, innit ?

thought this was an interesting read on the subject...

'Oh, man.he made it big in bitcoin. Now he's on an extended vacation in Fiji. 'This guy set up a bank of computers in our office in Buenos Aires when the government was keeping the price of electricity low. And he used them to "mine" bitcoins. His computers solved the complex mathematical puzzles required to verify bitcoin transactions.and he got rewarded in new bitcoin in return. 'And that was when the price was in the pennies. Now we're watching the price go up by more than $100 in a single day. I mean, it's unbelievable. Did you know that just $1,000 worth of bitcoin in 2010 would be worth $90 million today? 'And bitcoin is not the only game in town. There are new initial coin offerings - or ICOs - almost every day.

Basically, crypto start-ups are selling "crypto-tokens" to raise money to fund their businesses - much like companies issue new stock to fund their businesses through IPOs, or initial public offerings. And not all of them are about currency or money. 'For example, there was recently an ICO for a company that allows you to rent out spare memory on your computer to people who need extra storage space. Another is trying to bring basic financial services to the 2.5 billion people around the world without bank accounts. 'And another ICO helped fund a company that allows you to get rid of all ads online and instead pay websites directly for their content. That one raised $36 million in just 30 seconds! 'There are over 800 cryptocurrencies now in existence. The one I like best is in the No. 2 position, Ethereum.

It's got nothing to do with currency at all. Basically, the developers behind Ethereum have created the first decentralized "world computer". 'Businesses can use this decentralized computer to referee all kinds of global transactions without the need for a third party or centralized authority as arbiter. 'It's like this "Galt's Gulch" in cyberspace - a place you can go to get away from corrupt institutions and do business without outside interference.'

Virtual gold 'Of course, there are a lot of complete frauds, too,' continued our young analyst. 'When you get a sector this hot, the shysters get in on it. These are guys who sell mining companies in a gold boom.tech companies in a tech boom.and cryptocurrencies in a cryptocurrency boom. 'Is bitcoin in a bubble now?

Maybe. I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see prices crash again. But here's the important thing. People said it was a bubble when bitcoin hit $1. They said it was a bubble when it hit $100.and again when it hit $1,000. 'Over the long haul, bitcoin - or some version of it - is here to stay. And it wouldn't be surprising to see the price of bitcoin go to $5,000.or $10,000. 'Why? It's a better form of money. 'Remember, the creator of bitcoin was a big fan of the gold standard. That's what bitcoin is designed to be - virtual gold. It's why the total supply of bitcoins is capped at 21 million. It has to be in finite supply, like gold, to have value. 'It's also why you have to use lots of expensive processing power to "mine" new coins. Unlike government fiat money, bitcoin is based on how gold was dug out of the ground at the cost to the owner of the mine. 'And if you're in Venezuela with sky-high inflation.or in China with capital controls stopping you from moving your money overseas.or in India where the feds recently banned 86% of all banknotes in circulation.or in the US with another financial crisis on the horizon.and you want to protect your wealth, you need real money. 'All the government has on offer is funny money.

So what do you do? If you have the right contacts, you buy gold. Or you go online and buy bitcoin. 'Then you've got this digital currency that's outside of the banking system.is immune from the next sovereign debt crisis.and goes up in value when bad stuff happens in the world. 'Of course, the authorities have already tried to outlaw.or control.cryptocurrencies. But it's hard to control these things. 'First, they're global and decentralized. So it doesn't really matter what one government does. Second, they're based on hardcore cryptography. That's why they're called cryptocurrencies. They're not something governments even fully understand.'

Digital referee 'We don't know which cryptos will emerge as the Hertz and Avis of the sector. But there is no doubt that cryptos are here to stay. 'Because when you boil it all down, the technology that powers cryptocurrencies - the "blockchain" - is trustable computing. It's a technology that allows you to digitally referee win-win deals without the need for lawyers, central banks, financial middlemen, or government regulators.

'In fact, cryptocurrencies are an entirely new asset class. And right now, they represent just a tiny part of the financial ecosystem. But they are going to take over more and more of it. 'For example, bitcoin is more secure than any other form of money ever invented - even, you could argue, gold. Just look at what happened to the Incas, who saw all their gold looted by the Spanish. Or the British, who lost significant amounts of gold to German U-boats in World War I and World War II. 'This is the biggest change to money in probably 5,000 years.since gold was first used as money. 'You want to give your grandchild a cool present? Give him a crypto-coin. Better than a lottery ticket.'

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eppo said..
thought this was an interesting read on the subject...

It doesn't how one cut, slice and dice it, I am terribly wary of this "virtual" thing. So one can make money, and a shed-load of it by playing around on a computer with some obscure mathematical formulae or logic. Does that remind you of pyrotechnic ? I believe some budding pyro-technicians thought they managed to turn lead into gold ! Well, these two elements are close enough on the Atomic Chart, but they are still a long way apart.

I wonder if we as a human race is racing rapidly to a world of nothingness. Computers are invented to help make our mundane tasks easier. Little do the inventors knew that they are now used to create money out of nothingness !

No, good luck to the people who is making a bigger than handsome profits. But I am out. Not because I am afraid of the losses, but I just don't see the validity of creating things of value out of nothing. Whether it is a scam or not, that is for the participants to find out further down the road.

Warren buffet school of thought...

When everyone is scared buy in when everyone is greedy than sell.......

Or something like that

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Jupiter said..

eppo said..
thought this was an interesting read on the subject...

Does that remind you of pyrotechnic ? I believe some budding pyro-technicians thought they managed to turn lead into gold ! Well, these two elements are close enough on the Atomic Chart, but they are still a long way apart.

Do you mean budding alchemists?

Let's look at couple of "awesome" facts about cryptocurrency :
1. Anonymity..
privacy is thing of the past..it went out of the window long time ago..the name like Snowden should ring the bell.
2.Sending money to anywhere in the world is sooo easy..
Just think again, folks.. send..your..money..to..anywhere..in the world..
How cool is that !
Edit.. another awesome fact is security of course..
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mt._Gox

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mazdon said..

Jupiter said..

eppo said..
thought this was an interesting read on the subject...

Does that remind you of pyrotechnic ? I believe some budding pyro-technicians thought they managed to turn lead into gold ! Well, these two elements are close enough on the Atomic Chart, but they are still a long way apart.

Do you mean budding alchemists?

Yes, I got the wrong word. Somehow, alchemists and pyrotechnic all involved the use of fire ! May be alchemists were just a bunch of hopeful or perhaps hopeless pyrotechicians trying to make the impossible possible ?

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Razzonater said..
Warren buffet school of thought...

When everyone is scared buy in when everyone is greedy than sell.......

Or something like that

You are quite right about what Buffet said. However, he is into tangible things like infrastructures such as rail systems. The crypto currencies are just invisible money creating more invisible money by some obscure algorithms created by some dudes who you may not want to loan 20 cents in person.

Peter Forster, the man who made tens of millions out of desperate people who wanted to do the near impossible, to lose weight by simply drinking some dodgy tea in various names, and from optimistic and possibly gullible investors. But at least the people whom he swindled money out of have a cup of tea to sip. Not sure about the taste though

But that is your money, and please don't take it as a criticism for your choice of investment.

Down 20% today rough,, still in front by 15% but a big hit today,,, I hear that turdcoin is getting a lot of market share and investors are going crazy for it...

apparently they love that ****

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Razzonater said..
Down 20% today rough,, still in front by 15% but a big hit today,,, I hear that turdcoin is getting a lot of market share and investors are going crazy for it...

apparently they love that ****

That is investment for you. Hopefully more ups than downs. In regard to "Turdcoin", I am on good authority that RockMagnet is still "hard" at it to produce a marketable product with the correct "consistency" and appearance.

When and if he does achieve such goal, I would be the first to sign up for it. But I will need a pair a good gloves and a very long barge pole.

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dmitri said..
Edit.. another awesome fact is security of course..
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mt._Gox

Don't keep large amounts in an online wallet.

I bought something from Gumtree recently. Unfortunately, it doesn't have PayPal. Because I am a long way from the seller, so it is either COD or direct bank deposit. I know it is not a good idea to deposit money into someone else' bank account if you have never met him. But after spoken with him a few times, and the fact that he has been a Gumtree member for few years, I decided that I will trust him.

Then it shocked me when he said that he doesn't want to have money deposited directly into his account because it is not safe to provide his bank account details to someone he doesn't know. So it was COD and I got the goods as advertised.

Now the question is this...Is it not safe to give someone your bank account detail ? I have always thought it is relatively safe because it is a "push" and not a "pull" situation. It means the owner of the account has to "push" the money into someone's account. Nobody can "pull" or extract money from your account without your permission. When I send money, I also needed a password or code from the bank via SMS before the transaction can complete.

Can someone please enlighten me on such matter ?

There's a pretty cool site here for keeping track the market & some interesting reading as well.

ethereumprice.org/

We all hope for a quick and blissful retirement sooner than later. Some of us have cleverly chosen the "virtual" money scheme to prepare them for their future. That got me all fired up last night and after an on-off night of sleep, I tumbled on a "fail-safe" scheme that will make me, err, I mean you, rich, fast.

So here it is...Have you ever wonder how quickly a tiny mouse can grow to a pesty grown up in such a short time? It is all in the milk. Yes, apparently mouse milk is very rich and nutritious. It is like a steroid charged dose which turn tiny new-born into super mouse in a very short time.

So I thought it would be great if I can start a mouse milk farm to harvest its milk. Yes, it is going to be tricky. BUt I have worked out a way to calm the mice down, and passively allow themselves to be milked. Sadly, I needed funding. So the first thinig I thought of is the stock market. But then I realized that loyalty counts a lot in this day of dog eats dog. So immediately I thought of Seabreeze.

Yes, I thought it would be only fair that Seabreeze regulars ought t be give the first pick to invest in my soon-to-be very profitable mouse milking scam, err...scheme. To qualify, you need to have contributed at least once here. That means only a handful of you will qualify. Yes, it is exclusivity at its max. Not only that, only 100 investors are given this once in a lifetime opportunity. So in effect, after some very tough qualification process, you will be the privileged few in this very exclusive club.

Please remember, only 100 and no more. So hurry before you miss out. But how much ? $5,000 only. You will get a certificate printed on a piece of virgin paper. Each will have its very own digitally assigned serial number based on an algorithm devised by a reclusive blind mathematician living up the hills of the Himalayas. Only Bitcoins are accepted. Sorry.

Must be a very small milking stool for milking mice .

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Jupiter said..
I bought something from Gumtree recently. Unfortunately, it doesn't have PayPal. Because I am a long way from the seller, so it is either COD or direct bank deposit. I know it is not a good idea to deposit money into someone else' bank account if you have never met him. But after spoken with him a few times, and the fact that he has been a Gumtree member for few years, I decided that I will trust him.

Then it shocked me when he said that he doesn't want to have money deposited directly into his account because it is not safe to provide his bank account details to someone he doesn't know. So it was COD and I got the goods as advertised.

Now the question is this...Is it not safe to give someone your bank account detail ? I have always thought it is relatively safe because it is a "push" and not a "pull" situation. It means the owner of the account has to "push" the money into someone's account. Nobody can "pull" or extract money from your account without your permission. When I send money, I also needed a password or code from the bank via SMS before the transaction can complete.

Can someone please enlighten me on such matter ?

Should be fine because you'll need more than a BSB and Account number to do any damage, but I can understand their hesitation. Giving bank details to a stranger?

Because this is a thread about cryptocurrencies I can point out that this is not an issue for them. Your gumtree guy can give you a wallet address for you to transfer to, almost instantly (I know: SegWit & BU). Or, they can make a new wallet exclusively for the one, single transfer.

In that respect cryptocurrencies are much, much safer than bank transfers. It is a big part of their appeal.

[Bang] Here's a unique, one-time address to transfer me bitcoin: 1J2dkwxLDzxVDdYwUMfPzdM8fp3phTQamS

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Jupiter said..

It doesn't how one cut, slice and dice it, I am terribly wary of this "virtual" thing. So one can make money, and a shed-load of it by playing around on a computer with some obscure mathematical formulae or logic. Does that remind you of pyrotechnic ? I believe some budding pyro-technicians thought they managed to turn lead into gold ! Well, these two elements are close enough on the Atomic Chart, but they are still a long way apart.

Fair call. It's honestly very good to be wary, and suspicious. Critical thinking in action.

Let me ask you in return though how is it different to the $AUD? All the money in your bank account is virtual too. It's just 1s and 0s on a hard drive somewhere. Except the cash in your wallet which is ...paper.

So why does it have value? Only when you can really answer that to your own satisfaction can you start to understand these new alternatives. The cryptocurrencies.

I usually hear:

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Because it's backed by a sovereign nation

That sounds very reassuring (and it is), but what does it actually mean?

I learnt so much about money researching cryptocurrency. It has been really interesting.

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evlPanda said..

Jupiter said..

It doesn't how one cut, slice and dice it, I am terribly wary of this "virtual" thing. So one can make money, and a shed-load of it by playing around on a computer with some obscure mathematical formulae or logic. Does that remind you of pyrotechnic ? I believe some budding pyro-technicians thought they managed to turn lead into gold ! Well, these two elements are close enough on the Atomic Chart, but they are still a long way apart.

Fair call. It's honestly very good to be wary, and suspicious. Critical thinking in action.

Let me ask you in return though how is it different to the $AUD? All the money in your bank account is virtual too. It's just 1s and 0s on a hard drive somewhere. Except the cash in your wallet which is ...paper.

So why does it have value? Only when you can really answer that to your own satisfaction can you start to understand these new alternatives. The cryptocurrencies.

I usually hear:

Because it's backed by a sovereign nation

That sounds very reassuring (and it is), but what does it actually mean?

I learnt so much about money researching cryptocurrency. It has been really interesting.

Well, I thought $AUD or any other "official" currencies is the sovereign currency of that nation. There are people who are accountable for it, eg. the RBA in Straya and of course, the Strayan government. With Bitcoins and other forms of Internet currencies, who is actually ultimately responsible for them ?

One can't imagine Strayan government to suddenly pull up stumps and shut up shop, and taking all the profits with it. I am not sure if the creator/overseers of virtual currencies can guarantee that won't happen. If that indeed happens, who do you make a complain to ? What do you complain about ? And How would you go about lodging a complain ?

A scenario I can think you that closely resembles such "No one is accountable" is one I had experienced a while back. The company I worked for used a company to take care of our superannuation. I had always trusted the company's good judgment until one day I discovered I was charged $1,000 a year on insurance which seemed ridiculous. For a start, I worked in the office, and not in the mine where the real dangers were.

I rang the number, and waited, and waited, and waited. Then finally it was connected a a "real" human voice actually was on the phone ! I made my concerns heard, and the person was non the wiser as to why it was such a large amount for a very low risk office job. A promise was made to return my call with real answers. No calls. Repeated calls to the company were met with the same responses. I gave up, but soon changed employment anyway.

I read a bit about this $hit for a last couple of weeks..heck, we had a dinner with my sister in law this weekend and I asked if her son ( a computer geek) had any of bitcoins..turned out that 6 years ago he asked her for $1500 to buy this $hit..he was a young student back then.... eventually all his bitcoins was stolen by MtGox...damn, wish I could talk to him, but he lives in Manchester now.

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evlPanda said..

Jupiter said..

It doesn't how one cut, slice and dice it, I am terribly wary of this "virtual" thing. So one can make money, and a shed-load of it by playing around on a computer with some obscure mathematical formulae or logic. Does that remind you of pyrotechnic ? I believe some budding pyro-technicians thought they managed to turn lead into gold ! Well, these two elements are close enough on the Atomic Chart, but they are still a long way apart.

Fair call. It's honestly very good to be wary, and suspicious. Critical thinking in action.

Let me ask you in return though how is it different to the $AUD? All the money in your bank account is virtual too. It's just 1s and 0s on a hard drive somewhere. Except the cash in your wallet which is ...paper.

I just don't get it how is it better than AUD, or USD or CHF if it's no different..
But, hey..I have no doubts this $hit will be in our faces sooner or later, and the future will be so good..as those hipsters on the videos are promising.. all the evil banks (especially WStreet c@nts) will all get vanished..no debts anymore..and we all will be rich

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evlPanda said..

Jupiter said..

I am terribly wary of this "virtual" thing.

I usually hear:

Because it's backed by a sovereign nation

That sounds very reassuring (and it is), but what does it actually mean?

I'm pretty sure the average Greek citizen wouldn't have been too impressed when easy access to the "sovereign backed" currency in their bank accounts disappeared a couple of years ago,

or the average punter in India, where circulation of much of the "sovereign backed" bank notes came to a screeching halt not that long ago.