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decrepit said..

Yes, this did concern me, but I really wanted an electric car, and the MG was the only one I could afford. So my conscience was overridden

Credit at least for admitting you have succumbed to materialism.

Materialism is promoted by the usual suspects.

You say you love it but i doubt it.

I get a hundred times more love on a good day sailing on the river than driving any fancy car especially one where the materials to make the car are collected by immoral means.

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Pcdefender said..> Credit at least for admitting you have succumbed to materialism.

Well I don't see it as materialism, it's not about owning something new, trendy and flash. It's more about being able to travel on sunshine, instead of running on fossil fuels.
The fact that it's a joy to drive, is just a bonus.

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decrepit said..
Well I don't see it as materialism, it's not about owning something new, trendy and flash. It's more about being able to travel on sunshine, instead of running on fossil fuels.
The fact that it's a joy to drive, is just a bonus.

No need to explain yourself. PM33 is a sad and unhappy soul, who is triggered very easily. He really should to take a break from personal attacks and this forum.

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myscreenname said..


No need to explain yourself. PM33 is a sad and unhappy soul, who is triggered very easily. He really should to take a break from personal attacks and this forum.

No personal attack on decrepit and certainly not intended if so.

Coming from you that is more than a bit rich.

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Pcdefender said..
I get a hundred times more love on a good day sailing on the river than driving any fancy car especially one where the materials to make the car are collected by immoral means.

What materials is the car you drive made from and how are these materials collected?

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Pcdefender said..
I get a hundred times more love on a good day sailing on the river than driving any fancy car ...

Hey! I use that argument for anytime I see someone with something better than me.

A nice house.... nah that guy is not as happy as me. A great wife... nah that guy is not as happy as me.

The best one is 'that guy is skinnier than me, he can't be happy'. That last one is the one I use the most.

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myscreenname said..

Pcdefender said..
I get a hundred times more love on a good day sailing on the river than driving any fancy car especially one where the materials to make the car are collected by immoral means.

What materials is the car you drive made from and how are these materials collected?

Mine are all made from existing cars.

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Pcdefender said.. No personal attack on decrepit and certainly not intended if so.

Pete, I accept you didn't mean it as a personal attack, but I did find it offensive.

I'm a DIY recycler.
Anti waste, in all it's forms.
Materialism is against my values.
I try to avoid big business where I can.
I hate the way they try to control us to make us pawns in the capitalist culture, spend ,spend, spend, chuck, chuck, chuck.
So you insulted my core values, with 0 justification.

I think your conspiracy theories are aimed in the wrong direction.
What's really trying to control us?
Ads everywhere telling us to spend.
Big tobacco and big fossil fuel, spreading their lies and misinformation.

Trouble is Pete, your working for the wrong side!

My wife has a Tesla Model 3. It is the most fun car I've ever driven. Porsche acceleration for VW prices. Maybach road comfort for Chrysler prices. My next car will also be a Tesla, they are that good. If I was an ICE automaker in the USA I'd be seriously worried now that the Supercharger network is so extensive that range anxiety is no longer an issue. The first 2 weeks we had the car my wife did two long distances trips and had zero problems with charging along the route and at her destination.

I suspect most people buying a Tesla going forward will buy them because they are damn good cars, not because the buyers are anti fossil fuel.

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philn said..
My wife has a Tesla Model 3. It is the most fun car I've ever driven. Porsche acceleration for VW prices. Maybach road comfort for Chrysler prices. My next car will also be a Tesla, they are that good. If I was an ICE automaker in the USA I'd be seriously worried now that the Supercharger network is so extensive that range anxiety is no longer an issue. The first 2 weeks we had the car my wife did two long distances trips and had zero problems with charging along the route and at her destination.

I suspect most people buying a Tesla going forward will buy them because they are damn good cars, not because the buyers are anti fossil fuel.

I'd buy one based on the price of petrol. It only takes seven years in fuel savings to pay for the car. If the car lasts more than seven years, I'm ahead.

What happens to the viability of electric cars when the government finally gets its stuff together and charges road tax to all cars?

On the one hand they want to promote electric cars to count towards reducing emissions, but on the other hand they want the money they have always had to pay for stuff.

If we were to attribute the same amount of road tax to electric cars, are they still cheap?

What is it? 44 cents per litre? If we assume certain things, does that equate to $4.40 per 100kms?

10,000kms per year is now $440 in road tax. Are they still worth it if you have to pay that?

I think Victoria only backed down from charging road tax as the legal argument was that the state cannot impose that sort of tax, but I wonder if the government will sort that one out in the long run?

I wonder if Australia will follow NZ with th Road User Tax of $76 per 1,000 km. It will take quite a bit longer for the EV to pay for itself.

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remery said..
I wonder if Australia will follow NZ with th Road User Tax of $76 per 1,000 km. It will take quite a bit longer for the EV to pay for itself.

Off the top of my head, wouldn't that make it about 15% longer

BYD is just the new Toyota and China will dominate the car market for years to come. CATL (world's biggest battery supplier) just announced this week a 1.5 million km/ 15 year warranty on their next generation batteries for trucks and buses. They also supply BYD too. I just want an EV Van that I can afford to be a grey nomad in .

I just want an EV to commute in until PT for my route to work improves.
Charge it on my crappy solar all weekend or even day rate domestic supply if I have to and I will still be thousands of dollars ahead each year on fuel savings.

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Pcdefender said..

decrepit said..

Yes, this did concern me, but I really wanted an electric car, and the MG was the only one I could afford. So my conscience was overridden

Credit at least for admitting you have succumbed to materialism.

Materialism is promoted by the usual suspects.

You say you love it but i doubt it.

I get a hundred times more love on a good day sailing on the river than driving any fancy car especially one where the materials to make the car are collected by immoral means.

I'm confused. Decrep bought an MG not a BYD and u were originally going on about anti china, not buying a car from a country that deliberatly hurt our industries etc? MG is british?
I hire a polestar2 or hybrids often and thry are nice to drive and go further and are much better than i thought they would be. Saves getting fuel on return which i like. Polestar 2 hertz they turn the regen off by default as hire car but u can alao vary strength or turn on or off easy so non issue. Fastest accelrating car ive ever driven. Nice 360 camera around car.

I like the idea of having an EV in the garage, but would need the second car to be an ICE or hybrid for the longer trips. I just couldn't be asked to do the planning with an EV and the unknown if chargers are broken or busy on a long trip.


Resale will also be an issue, my current car is 15 years old, and from my reading you definitely don't want to own an EV once it is out of the battery or mechanical warranty period. Yes, the saving on fuel over the years will pay for a new battery, but then you could have stuck with an ICE for a similar cost. The battery will probably last longer than 10 years, but you will definitely start to loose range and you better have a wad of cash awaiting the inevitable.

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myusernam said..

Pcdefender said..

decrepit said..

Yes, this did concern me, but I really wanted an electric car, and the MG was the only one I could afford. So my conscience was overridden

Credit at least for admitting you have succumbed to materialism.

Materialism is promoted by the usual suspects.

You say you love it but i doubt it.

I get a hundred times more love on a good day sailing on the river than driving any fancy car especially one where the materials to make the car are collected by immoral means.

I'm confused. Decrep bought an MG not a BYD and u were originally going on about anti china, not buying a car from a country that deliberatly hurt our industries etc? MG is british?
I hire a polestar2 or hybrids often and thry are nice to drive and go further and are much better than i thought they would be. Saves getting fuel on return which i like. Polestar 2 hertz they turn the regen off by default as hire car but u can alao vary strength or turn on or off easy so non issue. Fastest accelrating car ive ever driven. Nice 360 camera around car.

The MG brand is now Chinese, which is why you are starting to see a lot of new MG cars running around, that are relatively cheap.

Are they cheap because they aren't using as complex safety systems? How are they doing it cheaper than everyone else (put aside electric for a minute).

cheaper wages I guess, and maybe lower profit, to establish a presence.
Mine has a 5 star rating. Haven't checked the air bags yet but lane assist and proximity warnings all work.

It's all made using robotics now, so I'd assume wages play a small part and those with the newest robotics build the best and cheapest. (Other things being equal)

There is an international trade fight going on about Chinese government subsidisation of EVs. Both Europe and the USA are talking about erecting barriers to protect their own industries.
That said, I'll buy one when either light van range goes up and price comes down or when I decide that I don't want to sail at spots where parking is limited during summer. The MG4 plus a trailer would work and I could park at boat ramps that jetskiers and tinny fishermen use.

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bjw said..
Are they cheap because they aren't using as complex safety systems? How are they doing it cheaper than everyone else (put aside electric for a minute).

For any car manufacturing, the systems are going to be about the same as far as automation goes. It will come down to costs of wages and cost of other supplies, which are also dictated by the cost of wages in the same economy. Glass, rubber, anything, is going to be dictated by what the local workers are getting paid.

Australia was not that different to any other economy, even though our wages were comparatively expensive. If we were all paid $3.50 a day instead of $350 a day we could produce cars at similar cost.

If it weren't for our exports keeping the AUD high, then our costs to produce would be lower.

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bjw said..
It's all made using robotics now, so I'd assume wages play a small part and those with the newest robotics build the best and cheapest. (Other things being equal)

Wages contribute to everything. Steel will be cheaper. Even if the base material weren't, the processing would be because labour costs are low.

Off on a tangent, you can read about when the Japanese took over a GM plant in the USA and quality went up. It was the exact same machinery, just a different approach.

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decrepit said..

Pcdefender said.. No personal attack on decrepit and certainly not intended if so.

Pete, I accept you didn't mean it as a personal attack, but I did find it offensive.

I'm a DIY recycler.
Anti waste, in all it's forms.
Materialism is against my values.
I try to avoid big business where I can.
I hate the way they try to control us to make us pawns in the capitalist culture, spend ,spend, spend, chuck, chuck, chuck.
So you insulted my core values, with 0 justification.

I think your conspiracy theories are aimed in the wrong direction.
What's really trying to control us?
Ads everywhere telling us to spend.
Big tobacco and big fossil fuel, spreading their lies and misinformation.

Trouble is Pete, your working for the wrong side!

dnyuz.com/2024/07/23/we-can-buy-sustainable-food-why-cant-we-buy-sustainable-batteries/
Its always about materailism .The longest lasting car is the most sustainable, probably a toyota.

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Rango said..
The longest lasting car is the most sustainable, probably a toyota.

I know Toyota have a reputation for being reliable but I have never owned one so I don't know first-hand.

Are they really that reliable or do the owners just take them for services more regularly? I think it is a mix of this plus Toyota keep the same components for a long time and produce them for a huge number of the same model across the globe, ironing the bugs out anytime something goes wrong.

I had a friend that used to laugh at all the Falcons and Commodores that you would notice on the side of the road broken down. When you think about it it is probably more that these cars had been kept well beyond the first 5 years, probably 10 years, and sometimes longer.

When they move into a less cashed up demographic they get serviced less, repaired less, and left on the side of the road without a towtruck more.

I then laughed when I started to see VWs and Toyotas and Mitsubishis broken down on the side of the road as these same cars moved into the poorer demographic. With Falcons and Commodores no longer made, these people bought different cars and the apparent reliability affected different brands and models.

They do tend to have shorter service intervals than rivals .So does this mean other car manufacturers are trying to make their's more attractive at the expense of longevity .Their components do seem better built though compared to every other car we,ve owned and had to ditch.Mine is 20yrs old still runs perfect,thinking of chucking a radiator in it soon.

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Rango said..
They do tend to have shorter service intervals than rivals .So does this mean other car manufacturers are trying to make their's more attractive at the expense of longevity .

I think that is a thing. I suspect that people think 'I don't need a service as regularly, so it will be cheaper'. I guess having high tech oils and coolants probably helps some too.

I have only bought a Holden new, but from that I learned that dealers are there to make money and find problems that they can charge for and to try and ignore any warranty problems that they can. I wonder if this is true of other dealerships?

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Rango said..

Their components do seem better built though compared to every other car we,ve owned and had to ditch.Mine is 20yrs old still runs perfect,thinking of chucking a radiator in it soon.

I was reading something on Quora where someone compared BMW and Toyota. Arguing that the Germans used hi-tech interesting stuff and Toyota was using reliable stuff that did the job. I think that's the difference and it makes sense. Why change something when it works well and lasts?

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FormulaNova said..

I was reading something on Quora where someone compared BMW and Toyota. Arguing that the Germans used hi-tech interesting stuff and Toyota was using reliable stuff that did the job. I think that's the difference and it makes sense. Why change something when it works well and lasts?

I have heard an exec from BMW confirming this. Toyota's are just so reliable.

I think the big brands have stopped advertising their technologies. It's all about lifestyle pretty shots. I heard recently that within the VW parent company, VW has the most basic safety systems, Audi has better and Porsche has their premium.

I wouldn't have assumed this. Because all cars look somewhat similar inside and out, therefore why would I buy and an Audi when an MG kinda looks similar? When in reality their price isn't just a badge.