Are they worth it?

Yes they're cheaper, but you'll lose far more value when you go to sell it than a Toyota.

My mechanic says they look like a Hyundai from the late 90s in quality underneath.

But dam they look good and are way cheaper.

nope

After about 2 years
Havel H6 new 45k secondhand 30k
Toyota Kluger new 75k secondhand 50k

So about the same depreciation, 33% but the longer you hold it the Toyota would probably come out ahead and be more reliable.

I've bought an MG4 electric. it's got a 7year warranty. So probably could well be the last car we own, not sure how much longer I'll be driving after 86. I'm not that concerned about resale value.
BTW we love it, it's a dream to drive, didn't take more than a day or two to get completely used to the regen breaking. In fact when I get into the commodore surf wagon I miss it, have to start using the break pedal all over again.

Just can't abide buying a car from a country that has actively targeted (and crippled) parts of our economy. Wine makers, crayfishers, rare earth and other miners have all been victims of Chinese aggression. This has knock on effects in the community generally. I know that you could argue the same with white goods and electronics, but there is little choice in those markets. You still have a wide choice of Japanese, Korean, European and (avoidable) American cars.

You'd think that Tesla vs BYD, after 5 years you'd have better resale value in a Tesla and end up costing you less once considering resale.

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bjw said..
You'd think that Tesla vs BYD, after 5 years you'd have better resale value in a Tesla and end up costing you less once considering resale.

An electric car is essentially worthless after 5 years. I though I would put my money on BYD who has been making electric cars a lot longer than Tesla (and provides the batteries to Tesla).

www.drive.com.au/caradvice/used-electric-car-prices-fall-after-two-years-data-finds/

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airsail said..
After about 2 years
Havel H6 new 45k secondhand 30k
Toyota Kluger new 75k secondhand 50k

So about the same depreciation, 33% but the longer you hold it the Toyota would probably come out ahead and be more reliable.

Can you post an example of a Kluger, or preferably a Land Cruiser or Prado that is 33% less value after 2 years?

Happy to pay those prices - any day of the week.

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CH3MTR4IL5 said..

bjw said..
You'd think that Tesla vs BYD, after 5 years you'd have better resale value in a Tesla and end up costing you less once considering resale.

An electric car is essentially worthless after 5 years. I though I would put my money on BYD who has been making electric cars a lot longer than Tesla (and provides the batteries to Tesla).

www.drive.com.au/caradvice/used-electric-car-prices-fall-after-two-years-data-finds/

Why would a 5 year old electric car be worthless?

Surely it would be a matter of how many kms rather than years?

As said my car has a 7 year warranty, surely with 2 years still left, that's worth something.

I think everyone needs to pay attention to what and how these e?ectric scooters are going.

Its like were putting a lithium bomb network around us. Gps tracked and allocated lithium bombs.


Now use that same ice head paranoid thinking with the cars......

We park em next to the columns....

Great now seabreeze is on a watch list again!

Honestly didnt know the writer of fight club was ukrainian

And if you think of tyler durden as China then it all kinda makes sense.....

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westozwind said..
Just can't abide buying a car from a country that has actively targeted (and crippled) parts of our economy. Wine makers, crayfishers, rare earth and other miners have all been victims of Chinese aggression. This has knock on effects in the community generally. I know that you could argue the same with white goods and electronics, but there is little choice in those markets. You still have a wide choice of Japanese, Korean, European and (avoidable) American cars.

Yes, this did concern me, but I really wanted an electric car, and the MG was the only one I could afford. So my conscience was overridden

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D3 said..

CH3MTR4IL5 said..

bjw said..
You'd think that Tesla vs BYD, after 5 years you'd have better resale value in a Tesla and end up costing you less once considering resale.

An electric car is essentially worthless after 5 years. I though I would put my money on BYD who has been making electric cars a lot longer than Tesla (and provides the batteries to Tesla).

www.drive.com.au/caradvice/used-electric-car-prices-fall-after-two-years-data-finds/

Why would a 5 year old electric car be worthless?

Surely it would be a matter of how many kms rather than years?

It's not just about the kilometres an EV has done, but also the age of the battery. They lose capacity over time whether they are being used or not. A big concern EV producers are having is in regards to their cars sitting in a port waiting to be moved onto a dealer, is that the battery is degrading all the time. So by the time you buy your new EV, the battery is no longer at 100%.

Are Australian Tesla's chinese made?

Also BYD's largest shareholder is Berkshire Hathaway so it's a confusing story.

It was interesting to see most of the cabs in China were electric.

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decrepit said..
As said my car has a 7 year warranty, surely with 2 years still left, that's worth something.

On the average, 24% of the new car price. As a buyer, you have to work on the possibility that the battery will fail at the end of the warranty, which is the bulk of the car value- so the price has to justify that possibility.

I'm not knocking your decision,
or any decision to by an e-car, if you buy it new and keep for 7+ years and then sell for parts when the battery fails, all good, but they are going to struggle to hold value because of the battery failure risk.

I wouldn't buy a Tesla personally, the Chinese have been doing electric cars well for a long time, I worked there for a while several years ago and 80% of cars in Shenzhen were electric.

That said I'm hanging out for the Rivian Ute to get here

www.motortrend.com/reviews/2022-rivian-r1t-electric-pickup-truck-first-drive-review/

wow, that looks very impressive!
The fossil fuel lobby will find it hard to ague against that.

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shi thouse said..

D3 said..

CH3MTR4IL5 said..

bjw said..
You'd think that Tesla vs BYD, after 5 years you'd have better resale value in a Tesla and end up costing you less once considering resale.

An electric car is essentially worthless after 5 years. I though I would put my money on BYD who has been making electric cars a lot longer than Tesla (and provides the batteries to Tesla).

www.drive.com.au/caradvice/used-electric-car-prices-fall-after-two-years-data-finds/

Why would a 5 year old electric car be worthless?

Surely it would be a matter of how many kms rather than years?

It's not just about the kilometres an EV has done, but also the age of the battery. They lose capacity over time whether they are being used or not. A big concern EV producers are having is in regards to their cars sitting in a port waiting to be moved onto a dealer, is that the battery is degrading all the time. So by the time you buy your new EV, the battery is no longer at 100%.

With the rate technology is improving/changing at the moment in the battery space, I suppose there's a chance that today's batteries would be undesirable in 5 years because they'd be obsolete and inefficient by new battery standards.

But I wouldn't think you should write off the idea of purchasing an EV just because resale might be terrible because of the battery.
Maybe future pre-sale car inspection services would be able to certify battery status as compared to new, as a negotiating tool when buying 2nd hand

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D3 said..

shi thouse said..

D3 said..

CH3MTR4IL5 said..

bjw said..
You'd think that Tesla vs BYD, after 5 years you'd have better resale value in a Tesla and end up costing you less once considering resale.

An electric car is essentially worthless after 5 years. I though I would put my money on BYD who has been making electric cars a lot longer than Tesla (and provides the batteries to Tesla).

www.drive.com.au/caradvice/used-electric-car-prices-fall-after-two-years-data-finds/

Why would a 5 year old electric car be worthless?

Surely it would be a matter of how many kms rather than years?

It's not just about the kilometres an EV has done, but also the age of the battery. They lose capacity over time whether they are being used or not. A big concern EV producers are having is in regards to their cars sitting in a port waiting to be moved onto a dealer, is that the battery is degrading all the time. So by the time you buy your new EV, the battery is no longer at 100%.

With the rate technology is improving/changing at the moment in the battery space, I suppose there's a chance that today's batteries would be undesirable in 5 years because they'd be obsolete and inefficient by new battery standards.

But I wouldn't think you should write off the idea of purchasing an EV just because resale might be terrible because of the battery.
Maybe future pre-sale car inspection services would be able to certify battery status as compared to new, as a negotiating tool when buying 2nd hand

Agree 100% with this. Electric motors driving cars into the future. How that electricity is stored and provided to those motors is going to change radically in the next 5 years. Fuel cells, solid state batteries and different chemistrys will see today's lithium powered vehicles become worthless overnight. Imagine a solid state battery/capacitor that charges in 5 mins and gives 1000+km range.

Trouble with that, I haven't got 5 years to wait, I'll be in mid 80s by then. I want to enjoy the benefits of battery now.

Likewise, the advancement of battery technology will leave ICE vehicles as less and less attractive options in the future. Potentially affecting their resale value even worse than EVs.

So if you are able to afford a new car now, why not buy the one you want/need now and stress less about how much it will be worth in the future?

Or get onboard with a series of leased EVs so you can get maximum advantage of zero FBT and zero after tax contributions and not worry about resale at all?

Someone has a 7 year old Tesla for sale with over 200,000 km for sale at $65,000. The seller claims 100 per cent charge has a range of 400km.

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bjw said..
Are they worth it?

Can't be any worse than an American or European car.
BYD has great electric car IP.

Personally I avoid anything that isn't Japanese or Korean, but I would consider BYD electric, however, I would need to see what they export here.

Driving an oil powered car, you can literally see the increase in sea level by the time you have reached your destination.

At least according to some from the super religious crowd Extinction Rebellion.

I wonder who funds this mob?

Almost certain the same entity that funds to the tune of billions of dollars the W.E.F

Once cash is removed from circulation they will transfer us seamlessly to a digital Social Credit System.

Once under this system they got you by the balls.

Enjoy your slavery - after all you well and truly earned it by complying with tyranny.

The interesting thing for me is that brand loyalty and cred has almost disappeared.

It'd be safe to suggest that Audi has a bundle of patents on its safety systems developed over many years, but people don't recognise this.

BVs are heavy and don't roll (due to a massive battery) but 0-100 in 3 seconds is dangerous in a sedan let alone in a Rivian truck. Just don't hit the accelerator instead of the brake.

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Pcdefender said..
Driving an oil powered car, you can literally see the increase in sea level by the time you have reached your destination.

At least according to some from the super religious crowd Extinction Rebellion.

I wonder who funds this mob?

I know who funds your mob, the multinational fossil fuel industry. They are just delaying the inevitable with lies and misdirection, same playbook as Big Tobacco. In fact, anti-environment conservative think tanks, for example the IPA, are employing ex-Big Tobacco publicists.

Exxon was well aware of the future impact of C02 on climate in the early 80's...
insideclimatenews.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/1982-Exxon-Primer-on-CO2-Greenhouse-Effect.pdf

Follow the money.

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bjw said..
The interesting thing for me is that brand loyalty and cred has almost disappeared.

It'd be safe to suggest that Audi has a bundle of patents on its safety systems developed over many years, but people don't recognise this.

BVs are heavy and don't roll (due to a massive battery) but 0-100 in 3 seconds is dangerous in a sedan let alone in a Rivian truck. Just don't hit the accelerator instead of the brake.

Interesting that you comment on the Audi safety systems. About 6 years ago, I was stopped in traffic on the highway in my Audi A3 that hadn't even had it's first service, when the person behind me failed to notice the stopped traffic (coming over a rise, regularly accidents in that spot). Hit so hard that my infant son's stroller in the boot was crushed, and my drivers seat broke, flexing backwards. Cops, Ambos and Fire crew all turned up. One of the fire crew came past and asked if the Audi was mine. He said that if it wasn't for the Audi's something or other (adrenaline had taken over - especially given my son was in the car at the time of impact), I wouldn't have walked away.
Due to a comedy of errors, starting with the ED only assessing me for whiplash (I got the kid home before heading to the local hospital, despite Ambos wanting to take me with them... damn, adrenaline.. and dinner time for the 1 year old!), took 6 weeks before I got sent for an x-ray.. to find evidence of a fractured vertebrae. And that sucked. And has sucked ever since.

As a side note, and a commentary on 'whatever', I was cleaned up by a Nissan Dualis (or whatever their small SUV thingy was), and I took out a BMW X5. Thankfully I was far enough behind the X5, and saw the Nissan coming, that I was able to somewhat swerve on impact to the point where my left front (ripped the fender off), took out the right rear quarter of the BMW... enough so that I wasn't at fault for hitting the BMW. Neither the Nissan nor the BMW had insurance. The Nissan was clearly written off, as was my Audi. I wouldn't be surprised if the X5 has written off too. Would have been an expensive day for the Nissan driver - probably the X5 driver too, unless he filed a civil claim?

But on the comment re: brand loyalty, I had a Golf with the 1.6L diesel, that I put 350K kms on before selling to the mother in law (and it's still going strong). VW no longer sold the 1.6L diesel in Oz at that point, but Audi did. The A3 is/was the same platform as the Golf, so I went with the A3. When that was written off, it was going to take 6 months to get another A3 with the 1.6, so i went back to a golf (wagon) with the 2L diesel. It's now got close to 260K on the clock... so all of that is kinda brand loyalty?

But none of this has anything to do with Chinese cars or EVs, so ignore all of the above.

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remery said..
Follow the money.

Whereas the electric car industry, which autocratic government controls most of the sales?

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remery said..


I know who funds your mob, the multinational fossil fuel industry. They are just delaying the inevitable with lies and misdirection, same playbook as Big Tobacco. In fact, anti-environment conservative think tanks, for example the IPA, are employing ex-Big Tobacco publicists.

Exxon was well aware of the future impact of C02 on climate in the early 80's...
insideclimatenews.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/1982-Exxon-Primer-on-CO2-Greenhouse-Effect.pdf

Follow the money.

Too much drugs, You're cooked

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remery said..
Follow the money.

Exactly, follow the money: