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Chainsaws

Created by Mollie Mollie  > 9 months ago, 3 May 2020
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pweedas
pweedas

pweedas

WA

4642 posts

11 May 2020 12:46pm
Select to expand quote
Macroscien said..

pweedas said..




myusernam said..
ok im convinced. for an amatuer muppet like myself the sthil 2 in 1 looks like the easiest solution.
i think this guy got the wrong pitch angle read the comments







This video is really strange.
At time 3.17 he shows a close up of the tooth on the chain he is about to sharpen.
It is clearly a square cut tooth, not a round cut. A square cut tooth has to be sharpened with a square file or on a machine.
He then sharpens the chain with his magical 2 in one sharpener.

At time 9.32 he then shows a close up of the sharpened chain and it can clearly be seen that it has been converted to a round undercut tooth.
And yet he fails to mention this? Or notice it maybe?
And more strangely, it can be seen that the depth guages have been cut downabout 2 mm . Compare the two time frames. 3.17 and 9.32

I cut them down to 1mm and most people say it's too much. But 2mm?? I think I would probably say that's too much.
I tend to think that's why the saw cuts so much faster than it did before. With a 2mm raker depth the chain will be as hungry as a wolf.

I don't have one of these sharpeners so I can't say why it ripped the rakers down so low but probably there is more to setting it up than first thought. Maybe the wrong set of files?
If you get one then check closely after you file the first tooth to see that it cuts it to the proper requirements.





Will be interesting to see if my small MS180 could handle 2mm depth on iron bark hard wood I have (?)
Also kick back chance will increase significantly with deeper then prescribed manufactured depth.
Then the chance of taking the chain of the bar also may increase while cutting wigs and bushes...


Definitely not suitable for trimming wigs. Use scissors for that.
landyacht
landyacht

landyacht

WA

5921 posts

11 May 2020 4:21pm
Select to expand quote
pweedas said..

myusernam said..
ok im convinced. for an amatuer muppet like myself the sthil 2 in 1 looks like the easiest solution.
i think this guy got the wrong pitch angle read the comments




This video is really strange.
At time 3.17 he shows a close up of the tooth on the chain he is about to sharpen.
It is clearly a square cut tooth, not a round cut. A square cut tooth has to be sharpened with a square file or on a machine.
He then sharpens the chain with his magical 2 in one sharpener.

At time 9.32 he then shows a close up of the sharpened chain and it can clearly be seen that it has been converted to a round undercut tooth.
And yet he fails to mention this? Or notice it maybe?
And more strangely, it can be seen that the depth guages have been cut downabout 2 mm . Compare the two time frames. 3.17 and 9.32

I cut them down to 1mm and most people say it's too much. But 2mm?? I think I would probably say that's too much.
I tend to think that's why the saw cuts so much faster than it did before. With a 2mm raker depth the chain will be as hungry as a wolf.

I don't have one of these sharpeners so I can't say why it ripped the rakers down so low but probably there is more to setting it up than first thought. Maybe the wrong set of files?
If you get one then check closely after you file the first tooth to see that it cuts it to the proper requirements.


watched that video. so the guy started life with normal full chisel chain at 30 degrees and had been sharpening by hand ,his angle had gradually altered closer to what looked like 15 or 20 deg. . when he set that gauge on the tooth and said the tooth was wrong in reality it was right , he was wrong. If he'd filed to the angle on the sharpener he would have got a shock at how good it could be. I suspect his error that has crept in was from not filing perpendicular like in the instructions. . that tool usually only takes 1 or 2 PUSHES to do a tooth. hearing that file going backwards really ** me to tears , really amateur. pweedas, that tooth is called a full chisel , you sharpen it with the appropriate diameter round file, to 30 degrees!. at 30 degrees its a crosscutting chain , they also make 10degree chain which is for ripping(cutting along the grain) to make planks and slabs. the filing machine only comes in 30 degrees so I fitted some home made 10 degree guides for sharpening ripping chain on my 25 and 36 " bars
woko
woko

woko

NSW

1770 posts

11 May 2020 8:08pm
Select to expand quote
pweedas said..

woko said..
Depending on how I was to use the chain I would only file the rakers maybe 2 or 3 times in the life of the chain, and again the same amount of passes with the file on each raker, one side then the other just like the cutter teeth



Yes,. me too,.. but that's because I rip them right down from the very first time. . That way I don't need to fiddle around with them every time I sharpen the chain.


The modern light gauge semi chain with anti kick back, for sure even on the little 30cc saws. Not sure if I would be fooling with the rakers on a new length of the old 404 chisel or semi for that matter, sometimes it's more work holding the saw off the wood your cutting if you know what I mean. But even with the old chunky chains if your useing it to rip then you can take em down a bit from the get go, that said the smallest saw I had that ran 404 was 08s from memory 60cc ? And the new chain was as good as it got
myusernam
myusernam

myusernam

QLD

6154 posts

11 May 2020 10:23pm
Select to expand quote
landyacht said..

pweedas said..


myusernam said..
ok im convinced. for an amatuer muppet like myself the sthil 2 in 1 looks like the easiest solution.
i think this guy got the wrong pitch angle read the comments





This video is really strange.
At time 3.17 he shows a close up of the tooth on the chain he is about to sharpen.
It is clearly a square cut tooth, not a round cut. A square cut tooth has to be sharpened with a square file or on a machine.
He then sharpens the chain with his magical 2 in one sharpener.

At time 9.32 he then shows a close up of the sharpened chain and it can clearly be seen that it has been converted to a round undercut tooth.
And yet he fails to mention this? Or notice it maybe?
And more strangely, it can be seen that the depth guages have been cut downabout 2 mm . Compare the two time frames. 3.17 and 9.32

I cut them down to 1mm and most people say it's too much. But 2mm?? I think I would probably say that's too much.
I tend to think that's why the saw cuts so much faster than it did before. With a 2mm raker depth the chain will be as hungry as a wolf.

I don't have one of these sharpeners so I can't say why it ripped the rakers down so low but probably there is more to setting it up than first thought. Maybe the wrong set of files?
If you get one then check closely after you file the first tooth to see that it cuts it to the proper requirements.



watched that video. so the guy started life with normal full chisel chain at 30 degrees and had been sharpening by hand ,his angle had gradually altered closer to what looked like 15 or 20 deg. . when he set that gauge on the tooth and said the tooth was wrong in reality it was right , he was wrong. If he'd filed to the angle on the sharpener he would have got a shock at how good it could be. I suspect his error that has crept in was from not filing perpendicular like in the instructions. . that tool usually only takes 1 or 2 PUSHES to do a tooth. hearing that file going backwards really ** me to tears , really amateur. pweedas, that tooth is called a full chisel , you sharpen it with the appropriate diameter round file, to 30 degrees!. at 30 degrees its a crosscutting chain , they also make 10degree chain which is for ripping(cutting along the grain) to make planks and slabs. the filing machine only comes in 30 degrees so I fitted some home made 10 degree guides for sharpening ripping chain on my 25 and 36 " bars


no the angle was way off - he had the wrong tool for the chain. it became clear in the comments. heaps of people said their tool matched chain perfectly. he just ordered the wrong angle
landyacht
landyacht

landyacht

WA

5921 posts

12 May 2020 5:34pm
Select to expand quote
myusernam said..

landyacht said..


pweedas said..



myusernam said..
ok im convinced. for an amatuer muppet like myself the sthil 2 in 1 looks like the easiest solution.
i think this guy got the wrong pitch angle read the comments






This video is really strange.
At time 3.17 he shows a close up of the tooth on the chain he is about to sharpen.
It is clearly a square cut tooth, not a round cut. A square cut tooth has to be sharpened with a square file or on a machine.
He then sharpens the chain with his magical 2 in one sharpener.

At time 9.32 he then shows a close up of the sharpened chain and it can clearly be seen that it has been converted to a round undercut tooth.
And yet he fails to mention this? Or notice it maybe?
And more strangely, it can be seen that the depth guages have been cut downabout 2 mm . Compare the two time frames. 3.17 and 9.32

I cut them down to 1mm and most people say it's too much. But 2mm?? I think I would probably say that's too much.
I tend to think that's why the saw cuts so much faster than it did before. With a 2mm raker depth the chain will be as hungry as a wolf.

I don't have one of these sharpeners so I can't say why it ripped the rakers down so low but probably there is more to setting it up than first thought. Maybe the wrong set of files?
If you get one then check closely after you file the first tooth to see that it cuts it to the proper requirements.




watched that video. so the guy started life with normal full chisel chain at 30 degrees and had been sharpening by hand ,his angle had gradually altered closer to what looked like 15 or 20 deg. . when he set that gauge on the tooth and said the tooth was wrong in reality it was right , he was wrong. If he'd filed to the angle on the sharpener he would have got a shock at how good it could be. I suspect his error that has crept in was from not filing perpendicular like in the instructions. . that tool usually only takes 1 or 2 PUSHES to do a tooth. hearing that file going backwards really ** me to tears , really amateur. pweedas, that tooth is called a full chisel , you sharpen it with the appropriate diameter round file, to 30 degrees!. at 30 degrees its a crosscutting chain , they also make 10degree chain which is for ripping(cutting along the grain) to make planks and slabs. the filing machine only comes in 30 degrees so I fitted some home made 10 degree guides for sharpening ripping chain on my 25 and 36 " bars



no the angle was way off - he had the wrong tool for the chain. it became clear in the comments. heaps of people said their tool matched chain perfectly. he just ordered the wrong angle


that tool only comes in 30 degrees. I have 4 of them . 5/16 .404 3/8 and a 3/8 that I ve modified for 10 degrees.
H said he hadn't sharpened the chain previously ,but looking at how much it took off the depth guides in one go I would call bulls**t. that tool only takes off a tad each time. he had been hand filing that chain and it had got way off
fitz66
fitz66

fitz66

QLD

575 posts

14 May 2020 6:48pm
What Landyacht said Depth gauge is 0.65mm on most chains a bit more on .404 0.8mm I think.
kato
kato

kato

VIC

3513 posts

14 May 2020 8:01pm
Select to expand quote
woko said..

pweedas said..


woko said..
Depending on how I was to use the chain I would only file the rakers maybe 2 or 3 times in the life of the chain, and again the same amount of passes with the file on each raker, one side then the other just like the cutter teeth




Yes,. me too,.. but that's because I rip them right down from the very first time. . That way I don't need to fiddle around with them every time I sharpen the chain.



The modern light gauge semi chain with anti kick back, for sure even on the little 30cc saws. Not sure if I would be fooling with the rakers on a new length of the old 404 chisel or semi for that matter, sometimes it's more work holding the saw off the wood your cutting if you know what I mean. But even with the old chunky chains if your useing it to rip then you can take em down a bit from the get go, that said the smallest saw I had that ran 404 was 08s from memory 60cc ? And the new chain was as good as it got


Not sure that I'd use 404 chain unless you're doing a lot of falling.
landyacht
landyacht

landyacht

WA

5921 posts

14 May 2020 7:02pm
Select to expand quote
kato said..

woko said..


pweedas said..



woko said..
Depending on how I was to use the chain I would only file the rakers maybe 2 or 3 times in the life of the chain, and again the same amount of passes with the file on each raker, one side then the other just like the cutter teeth





Yes,. me too,.. but that's because I rip them right down from the very first time. . That way I don't need to fiddle around with them every time I sharpen the chain.




The modern light gauge semi chain with anti kick back, for sure even on the little 30cc saws. Not sure if I would be fooling with the rakers on a new length of the old 404 chisel or semi for that matter, sometimes it's more work holding the saw off the wood your cutting if you know what I mean. But even with the old chunky chains if your useing it to rip then you can take em down a bit from the get go, that said the smallest saw I had that ran 404 was 08s from memory 60cc ? And the new chain was as good as it got



Not sure that I'd use 404 chain unless you're doing a lot of falling.


my chainsaw shop told me that .404 was referred to as cocky chain as it came on saws called farm boss. all my bigger saws have been converted to 3/8 so I can alternate the bars and chains for ripping and crosscutting. between 2 saws Ive ended up with an 18" 2x25" and a 36" bar with crosscutting chains for all and ripping for the 25 and the 36. I think there might be a spare ripper that was a 36 and became a 25 after eating a 5/16 bolt whilst slabbing.
.
.
.hence all the sharpening tools. but with all that stuff you can sharpen the lot and set the depths in less than an hr. 6 chains at $15 each and you soon recoup the $250 outlay for the grinder
fitz66
fitz66

fitz66

QLD

575 posts

15 May 2020 7:06am
Farmboss has 3/8 661 and 880 have option for 404.
landyacht
landyacht

landyacht

WA

5921 posts

16 May 2020 2:40pm
Select to expand quote
fitz66 said..
Farmboss has 3/8 661 and 880 have option for 404.


they fixed that then
Macroscien
Macroscien

Macroscien

QLD

6808 posts

5 Jun 2020 9:31am
Another question regarding chain servicing.
Chain is now sharpened and rakes adjusted , but looks like bar is jamming in hardwood log.
Does chain need also some sideways adjustments ?
Seems that cutting gap is too narrow. Should I bent cutting links sideways somehow?
BTW Jammin is not caused by log bending ,. Starts very early when 1/2 of the bar widrth is engaged on big diameter log.
Any advantage of buying more expensive chains " tungsten tipped" instead of standard chromed ?
landyacht
landyacht

landyacht

WA

5921 posts

7 Jun 2020 4:07pm
Select to expand quote
Macroscien said..
Another question regarding chain servicing.
Chain is now sharpened and rakes adjusted , but looks like bar is jamming in hardwood log.
Does chain need also some sideways adjustments ?
Seems that cutting gap is too narrow. Should I bent cutting links sideways somehow?
BTW Jammin is not caused by log bending ,. Starts very early when 1/2 of the bar widrth is engaged on big diameter log.
Any advantage of buying more expensive chains " tungsten tipped" instead of standard chromed ?


how much tooth have you got left. every time you file your cut width gets a tiny bit narrower.by the time you file away 1/2 the tooth the gap will be be getting quite tight. if the wood is really hard your bar will probably jam . also check your bar isn't bent. i guessing bugger all teeth left. the tungsten teeth are really designed for frozen wood, as steel teeth in frozen wood gets its tempering altered when cutting. by using tungsten tipped teeth you get longer cutting time . I've tried 1 tungsten chain, wouldn't get another
kato
kato

kato

VIC

3513 posts

7 Jun 2020 6:57pm
We tried tungsten for our fire saws when cutting burnt timber. Just not worth the cost and difficulty in resharpening.
I still wouldn't bother using 404 chain unless you're dropping lots of big trees regularly.
woko
woko

woko

NSW

1770 posts

7 Jun 2020 7:46pm
Select to expand quote
Macroscien said..
Another question regarding chain servicing.
Chain is now sharpened and rakes adjusted , but looks like bar is jamming in hardwood log.
Does chain need also some sideways adjustments ?
Seems that cutting gap is too narrow. Should I bent cutting links sideways somehow?
BTW Jammin is not caused by log bending ,. Starts very early when 1/2 of the bar widrth is engaged on big diameter log.
Any advantage of buying more expensive chains " tungsten tipped" instead of standard chromed ?


Has the bar been dressed ie rails made of equal height ? Take the bar off the saw and put a square on it, chances are its out of whack and cutting a curve. There is no side ways adjustment. Some woods when cut green get a bit furry and pinch the chain. I only ever had one tungsten chain damn thing had plenty of tooth left but in the end was to streached to be of any use and a pain to have sharpened
fitz66
fitz66

fitz66

QLD

575 posts

8 Jun 2020 6:32pm
Dressing the bar also involves taking the burrs off the side. If you are trying to force a blunt chain through timber it causes metal to flare out and it ends up wider than the width of the chain stopping it cutting down. Tungsten chain is good for dirty timber that has ants, dirt etc in it but more brittle than standard chain, stays sharp longer and yes has to be sharpened with a diamond wheel. Horses for courses.
Ben1973
Ben1973

Ben1973

1008 posts

8 Jun 2020 6:43pm
Chain seas where invented to help with child birth. They used them to slip the pelvic bones.

usless facet of the day.
Macroscien
Macroscien

Macroscien

QLD

6808 posts

8 Jun 2020 11:20pm
Select to expand quote
fitz66 said..
Dressing the bar also involves taking the burrs off the side. If you are trying to force a blunt chain through timber it causes metal to flare out and it ends up wider than the width of the chain stopping it cutting down. Tungsten chain is good for dirty timber that has ants, dirt etc in it but more brittle than standard chain, stays sharp longer and yes has to be sharpened with a diamond wheel. Horses for courses.




Good point, I need to look closely now on the bar itself. Indeed , my mistake was probably to press dull chain to speed up cutting on hard wood. This extra pressure could made damage to the bar now.
BTW> This is now my 4th bar as sprockets gave up on all previous. I am using now cheaper Oregon instead of original Stihl bars and cheaper GreenAcres chains at $15 instead of $40, New arrival this week will be Prokut chain from eBay. Will see how it will perform as plenty of new tracks to cut at farm now. I did extend by another 160Ha aquiring adjustment property that haven't been properly mainteinded by 30 years .

woko
woko

woko

NSW

1770 posts

9 Jun 2020 9:17pm
I found the trick for the sprocket tips was when you take the bar of regularly and clean it with compressed air and get the sprocket spinning and oil it generously, I found grease caused them to become sticky, for oil I only ever used cheapest motor oil, and turn the bar over every time you clean it to even the wear. Keep the chain sharp use plenty of oil and the bars last a lot longer
monaro
monaro

monaro

QLD

105 posts

11 Jun 2020 8:14am
I seem to be rack up 10,000 ks driving real quick.
I do oil change of Penrite eviro 5/40.
7.7 litres a time.
Could that oil be used for chain oil.
Cheers
Ben 555
Ben 555

Ben 555

NSW

456 posts

11 Jun 2020 8:22am
Monaro - sump oil wont adhere / stick - it gets thrown off and wont provide the lubrication needed. Plus the carbon deposits in the oil may block up the galleries

If you don't have bar oil then use gender fluid (Tranny oil)
monaro
monaro

monaro

QLD

105 posts

11 Jun 2020 9:49am
Cheers Ben555
Thought there would be a reason not to.
woko
woko

woko

NSW

1770 posts

11 Jun 2020 7:48pm
The unburnt fuel in used engine oil fools with the oil pump rubber bits, metal in used oil wears the bar and its @&$!? Messy. Cheapo engine oil is ok as is the gender fluid !
kato
kato

kato

VIC

3513 posts

11 Jun 2020 8:05pm
Chain oil is cheap and it stays were it needs to be...... on the chain . Thin oil comes off the chain at the sprockets and doesn't get to the bottom of the bar. Which is where it's needed when cutting
BlueMoon
BlueMoon

BlueMoon

866 posts

12 Jun 2020 8:34am
Battery chainsaws. I'm after a top handle battery chainsaw, anyone got any recommendation or had good luck with a particular brand?, concern is battery life and speed of chain, cheers
Ian K
Ian K

Ian K

WA

4164 posts

12 Jun 2020 11:21am
Select to expand quote
BlueMoon said..
Battery chainsaws. I'm after a top handle battery chainsaw, anyone got any recommendation or had good luck with a particular brand?, concern is battery life and speed of chain, cheers



Chainsaws appear to be pretty safe if used properly. Most of the near-miss/coulda-been-worse incidents I've heard about are with top handled saws. If the saw needs two hands to balance that's two sets of fingers with no chance of getting in the way. They make them for climbers and those already with one arm.
landyacht
landyacht

landyacht

WA

5921 posts

1 Jul 2020 8:06pm
Select to expand quote
pweedas said..

myusernam said..
ok im convinced. for an amatuer muppet like myself the sthil 2 in 1 looks like the easiest solution.
i think this guy got the wrong pitch angle read the comments




This video is really strange.
At time 3.17 he shows a close up of the tooth on the chain he is about to sharpen.
It is clearly a square cut tooth, not a round cut. A square cut tooth has to be sharpened with a square file or on a machine.
He then sharpens the chain with his magical 2 in one sharpener.



are you perhaps confusing full chisel teeth and semi chisel teeth. i can say I've never seen square teeth before given the size of his saw and being a still he would have had full chisel teeth (still a round file)
landyacht
landyacht

landyacht

WA

5921 posts

1 Jul 2020 8:08pm
Select to expand quote
BlueMoon said..
Battery chainsaws. I'm after a top handle battery chainsaw, anyone got any recommendation or had good luck with a particular brand?, concern is battery life and speed of chain, cheers


worked with a guy today using a husqvarna top hander .. quite impressed main saw used all day
fitz66
fitz66

fitz66

QLD

575 posts

3 Jul 2020 6:47am
I'm reducing a 40ft mango tomorrow with a demo top handle Stihl. I have the ground saw and its great.
Macroscien
Macroscien

Macroscien

QLD

6808 posts

3 Jul 2020 1:20pm
Eventually I found the problem with jamming bar. Had a look at the bar and found a lot of dents in the rail.
Bought a new bar , but also did try to fix old one by grinding and sanding with belt sander rail along. New strategy will be now to use old bar, old chain for bush cleaning and new bar new chain for straight cuts across hardwood logs.Probability of chain falling of while cleaning bushes with this powered machete is 100% just , matter of time. So if must, than better to some damage to older bar.We had a lot of talk about chain but not much about bar maintenance.
Any tips and recommendation about chainsaw bar servicing? If need regular filling or something?
Are all bar the same, or some are better then other?
woko
woko

woko

NSW

1770 posts

3 Jul 2020 7:38pm
Turn the bar over and clean regularly, you will see a burr develop on the outer edge of the rails as they wear, use clean oil and lots of it if cutting seasoned wood especially in sandy soil, the oil that flicks off cleans as well as lubricates, so between cuts if you don't have a manual oiler run the saw free of the wood at revs till you can see oil flicking off the top edge of the tip, you should be able to sort of spray paint with the oil flicking off, if you can't find out why ? The pick up filter in the oil tank is often over looked, a good way to limit the amount of crap getting in the tank is to wipe the filler cap area before opening. And a caution when dressing a bar, be gentle there's limited depth in the groove and when the drive links touch the bottom the bar is rooted. Keep the chain sharp & use lots of oil and the bar will last,don't and it won't.
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