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Ian K said..
Nor me. The fire danger index is calculated using recent weather.

Ian, tell me TheTruth...

Is that a scan of your personal McCarthur Mk5 Forest Fire Danger Meter that you obtained from the Sandleford Holdings to calculate recent fire danger for yourself?

Sandalford Holdings?? No, I lifted it off the internet.

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FormulaNova said.. It does bug me though that people are seemingly running around saying 'its climate change, its climate change' when there is no proof, or at least nothing has changed from when this drought started. Its just that the bushfires present something that may represent a change, but without other data and long term trends, how do you know its actual climate change?

Have you looked at any of the science? Examples below.
Difficult to understand but I reckon a more valuable use of time than bothering with opinions of non-scientists.


Observed Impacts of Anthropogenic Climate Change on Wildfire in California 15 July 2019
agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/action/cookieAbsent

Impact of anthropogenic climate change on wildfire across western US forests
PNAS October 18, 2016
www.pnas.org/content/113/42/11770

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TheTruth said..

FormulaNova said..
Really? Wow, am I going to read any more amazing revelations or are you going to back your own opinion with a discussion?

I don't think I can convince you that the fires are a result of humans, and can't really be bothered arguing it. I think you might be a little NQR, or how else can I put this..... 2 cents short of a dollar.

If enough people think something is a fact then it inevitably becomes fact.

It doesn't matter if these awful fires are caused by climate change or not. Easier just to agree with you on that.

You can't be bothered arguing it, but you want to insult me instead? Okay, I understand what you are saying. You are too thick to try and argue it, but you really believe that this is the case because you think that this is the case. Is that about right?

If enough people think something is a fact it becomes a fact? really? In what universe is this true? Are we all going to heaven?

I don't mind when other people have other points of view to mine as it makes me think. I find it weird though when people can't explain why they think its the case. I am sure I am wrong a lot of the time, but its nice to understand why.

I wonder if a true scientist believes that if enough people think its true, then its true?

I believe in climate change but if it's this rapid we're all f@#ked already. Limited data to truly understand what's going on, wokey wokey take up a board sport and have some stokey

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Chris 249 said..

TheTruth said..
mensline.org.au/
www.ruok.org.au/
mensshed.org/

Chris, I've seen angry men make beautiful letterboxes in men's sheds sold at local markets. You don't necessarily have to limit yourself to building letterboxes. You could build wooden models of 747 water bombers if you wanted.




I wasn't aware that water bombers couldn't fly at night - so I googled it. Apparently they are working on it. Humans are so smart!

www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-02/firebombers-to-fly-at-night-australian-first-trial/9387562

If I was at a mens shed - I'd be building a wooden model of 747 water bomber - one that worked at night - and I wouldn't sell it. I would be running around the workshop with it making engine noises, dunking it in the sink each time I went around.

TheTruth said..
mensline.org.au/
www.ruok.org.au/
mensshed.org/

Chris, I've seen angry men make beautiful letterboxes in men's sheds sold at local markets. You don't necessarily have to limit yourself to building letterboxes. You could build wooden models of 747 water bombers if you wanted.




I wasn't aware that water bombers couldn't fly at night - so I googled it. Apparently they are working on it. Humans are so smart!

www.abc.net.au/news/2018-02-02/firebombers-to-fly-at-night-australian-first-trial/9387562

If I was at a mens shed - I'd be building a wooden model of 747 water bomber - one that worked at night - and I wouldn't sell it. I would be running around the workshop with it making engine noises, dunking it in the sink each time I went around.

There's nothing wrong with being angry with people who abuse those who spend time, and sometimes lose their lives, as volunteers

What's wrong is being a ****wit who insults such people.

Yeah you're just a ****wit The Truth!

In the time Australia is on fire, we are "saving others"

11 mln that fire service requested for water tankers pale in comparison to 2,4bln

I came across something today that said in 1973/74 we had bushfires that took out 117Million hectares! Incredible, but as most of it was in central Australia there was little impact, and only evaluated later using satellites.

That's a huge number.

I think there was also mention of a huge fire in 1939 taking out 2 Million hectares in Victoria.

I agree that people are saying that these fires seem more common in the last decade or so, but is it also more confronting as we can have live footage and reports from these areas, whereas 100 years ago you might read of isolated stories in the papers weeks later?

I wonder what they thought in 1974 when they didn't even think to blame global warming? Was it even a common thought back then? What would they have blamed it on? Just hot weather?

Back in the 70s the worry was global cooling. In balance I'd rather live in a desert than on a glacier.

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Mobydisc said..
Back in the 70s the worry was global cooling. In balance I'd rather live in a desert than on a glacier.

I suspect that in the 70s they were probably worried about running out of oil more than the effects of it on the climate. I vaguely recall, although probably from reading about it more than anything, about petrol rationing and people only allowed to fill their cars if their number plates were either odd or even depending on the day.

Mind you, in the same period it felt like a family having one car was normal, versus now when everyone in the family has one.

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TheTruth said..

FormulaNova said..
I came across something today that said in 1973/74 we had bushfires that took out 117Million hectares! Incredible, but as most of it was in central Australia there was little impact, and only evaluated later using satellites.

That's a huge number.

I bet those facts make you feel ok about keeping that can of coke cold in your car by running a fridge in your car.

No, after someone got to me and mortally wounded me with their comment about my car fridge, I have turned it off. It has been off now for about 4 weeks and I have repented for my sins.

On the other hand it may have coincided with me parking the car in the long term car park as I went on a fuel guzzling flight across a huge country and then back again. Yes, that's much closer to the truth! I am even thinking about buying another one so that i can use one as a fridge and the other as a freezer. You need ice in that almost ice-cold coke you know!

You don't like to feel you have lost an argument do you?

Would you like to address the 117 Hectares that were burnt out in 1973 and whether it was global warming or something else? Perhaps at the time you could have been shouting from the rooftops that 'we only have 10 years before we are all doomed'.

Edit. Pffftt, a can of coke? A single can? I drink that rubbish by the bottle, and am thinking about upgrading the fridge to a bigger model aswell as I don't want to lay them on their side.

Do you think an inverter and a microwave is overkill for those moments when you really want a chicko roll? Yes, a deep fryer is probably a better choice, I will see about fitting one of those.

Taken from a wiki I just read>

'Major Victorian bushfires occurred on Black Thursday in 1851, where an estimated 5 million hectares were burnt'

1851?

^Just a few posts and your already resorting to this champ, you u might have to rethink who is the knob!!

DIDNT THINK IT WOULD TAKE U LONG TO REMOVE A KNOBHEAD POST LIKE THAT

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TheTruth said..
farking

cocksmoker

That you, log man?

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TheTruth said..
Let's find out TheTruth.

Click the thumbs up button and I will change this message accordingly

I green thumbed your post before i read the bit about being anonymous... sorry!

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FormulaNova said..
Taken from a wiki I just read>

'Major Victorian bushfires occurred on Black Thursday in 1851, where an estimated 5 million hectares were burnt'

1851?

How is that relevant - any chance that water bombers were less effective in 1851?

Climate change has been around for 100s of years!

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Mobydisc said..
Back in the 70s the worry was global cooling. In balance I'd rather live in a desert than on a glacier.

Back in the 70s, on a slow news day, somebody ran a story on Milankovic cycles. Back in the 70s, even Margaret Thatcher was aware that global heating was a long term problem coming up. That's the beauty of being in government...access to serious advice

Piers Morgan thinks Craig Kelly needs to do the maths........

Ok, let's do the maths!

* At the end of 1999, global Co2 concentrations were 0.03681% (368.1 ppm) of the atmosphere. They are currently around 0.041185% (411.85ppm)

* Therefore, over the past 21 years Co2 levels have increased by 0.004375% (43.75ppm)

* Australia's man made contribution is around 1.3% of that 0.004375% = 0.00005687% (0.5687ppm)

* Therefore, if at the turn of the last century, in fear of the Y2K Millennium bug, the entire Australian population 'lemming like' went and jump off high cliffs into the sea - today Co2 levels would be 0.041126% (411.26ppm) instead of 0.041185% (411.85ppm)

* Assuming that Co2 acts like a 'control knob' (and at the sensitivity assumed by the IPCC computer models) the difference in average global temperatures with a Co2 level of 0.041126 (411.26ppm) instead of 0.041185% (411.85ppm) today (the result of the entire Australia population jumping of high cliffs into the sea back on 31st December 1999) is 0.000000?C.

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TonyAbbott said..
Piers Morgan thinks Craig Kelly needs to do the maths........

Ok, let's do the maths!

* At the end of 1999, global Co2 concentrations were 0.03681% (368.1 ppm) of the atmosphere. They are currently around 0.041185% (411.85ppm)

* Therefore, over the past 21 years Co2 levels have increased by 0.004375% (43.75ppm)

* Australia's man made contribution is around 1.3% of that 0.004375% = 0.00005687% (0.5687ppm)

* Therefore, if at the turn of the last century, in fear of the Y2K Millennium bug, the entire Australian population 'lemming like' went and jump off high cliffs into the sea - today Co2 levels would be 0.041126% (411.26ppm) instead of 0.041185% (411.85ppm)

* Assuming that Co2 acts like a 'control knob' (and at the sensitivity assumed by the IPCC computer models) the difference in average global temperatures with a Co2 level of 0.041126 (411.26ppm) instead of 0.041185% (411.85ppm) today (the result of the entire Australia population jumping of high cliffs into the sea back on 31st December 1999) is 0.000000?C.

So that's OK then. We'll let the atmosphere go to 100% CO2
And you're sh#t at arithmetic. An increase from 368ppm to 412ppm is about a 12% change.

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azymuth said..

FormulaNova said..
Taken from a wiki I just read>

'Major Victorian bushfires occurred on Black Thursday in 1851, where an estimated 5 million hectares were burnt'

1851?

How is that relevant - any chance that water bombers were less effective in 1851?

Water bombers flown back in from the future would not have made a dent on the 5 million hectares. What might have made a difference was the decline of the aboriginals, (60,000 to 1,900 ) the fire stick farming mosaic would have mostly gone with them by 1850.

press-files.anu.edu.au/downloads/press/p316011/pdf/book.pdf




"Even before 1835, Aboriginal people in Victoria had been affected by European presence; many had been ravaged by disease. Smallpox epidemics in the 1790s and 1820s reduced a population that probably numbered at least 60,000 and contained at least 40 distinct language groups to somewhere between 10 and 15,000 in 1835. Further depopulation was 'massive and rapid' during those first 15 years through a combination of violence and disease; by 1850, only around 1,900 Aboriginal people were recorded as having survived.8"

The question of aboriginal burning and its effect on reducing fire extent and intensity was first raised in the Stretton Commission following the Black Friday fires of 1930

history.cass.anu.edu.au/news/black-friday-bushfires-and-beginning-stretton-royal-commission-january-1939

"The Stretton Commission transcripts also reveal debate about the extent, impact and purpose of pre-colonial Aboriginal burning amongst foresters and graziers "

"Interestingly, the grazier Peter O'Mara referenced the journals of European explorers to argue that the cessation of Aboriginal burning had resulted in thickened forest undergrowth, and even claimed that Indigenous Australians "grew" the forest. This claim preceded Rhys Jones's theory of Aboriginal 'fire-stick farming' as deliberate and systematic by several decades. Dairy farmers and graziers such as O'Mara argued that Indigenous Australians regularly used fire to promote vegetation growth and attract game for hunting; in doing so, graziers conducting burning for 'green pick' were positioned as the apparent heirs of Aboriginal burning. Such arguments continue today in debates over grazing in alpine areas."

I think the amount of fossil fuels burnt to run your computer machines to post continually on this thread plus all the hot air from some of the posters is what is the cause of global warming and the bush fire crisis present in this day and age.
If you guys spent as much time out in the bush vacuuming up leaf litter as you did forum-ing there would be no bushfire crisis and Sco-mo could have finished his Hawaiian holiday with his family.

Australian forumers/twitterers, SHAME SHAME SHAME. I don't like it. please explain. If any employer sacks their employee's for not turning up to work today their a bum.

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Ian K said..

of the aboriginals, 60,000

There must be some difference in land management once we expect to feed 6 mln people instead of 60,000 on the same area. I am absolutely sure that having population of 1,6 bln Australia will still have lower density then most Asian countries and probably zero problems with bushfires.All sticks will be consumed/utilized by population, every tree rip off, grass eaten, bush torn apart.How many people we may have now per every km2 of forest in the country? or rather how many km2 of forest per 1 person? If we could only relocate those millions living like rats in few megacities into outback and those people could take care of smaller parcels of the land.

Australians mainly but also the rest of the world need to know the truth of the devastating fires, I did live there for 10 years. Experts, fire fighters etc all say the fires aren't behaving naturally, evidence points to it being by design and the drought is a lie, its being dammed up-river into catchment areas for the powers that be including the Chinese who have bought farms bigger than the UK. I'm no conspiracy theory tin hat wearing idiot, check out on YouTube, the crow house with Max Igan, he's Australian and presents fact backed with evidence. Its then up to you what you think. I'm writing this in the UK, my son still lives in Australia and brought the aforementioned to my attention when here for Xmas. PLEASE CHECK OUT MAX EGAN ON CROW HOUSE, THE Aussie powers that be are committing treason