www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-17/holden-car-brand-axed-after-160-years-in-australia/11972092

car prices in Australia are ridiculous and not many of us can afford $10,000+ car and seeing car sales at $20,000 to 50,000+ is just nuts (is just a transportation, I know some you take it seriously ).

Also, I just can't believe were still in combustion engine technology, its so primitive.

Select to expand quote

JEG said..
car prices in Australia are ridiculous and not many of us can afford $10,000+ car and seeing car sales at $20,000 to 50,000+ is just nuts (is just a transportation, I know some you take it seriously ).

Also, I just can't believe were still in combustion engine technology, its so primitive.

You just contradicted yourself. Internal combustion engines are a proven design, reliable and cheap. You want to replace that with something else and still want cheaper cars?

If you want a cheap car, buy a second hand one, if all you want is cheap and proven.

I wondered how long until this would happen. They existed in name only...what was the point of continuing?

Holden has not been an Australian company for maybe 80 years. In other words anyone directly associated with the brand when it was Australian owned is either dead or is very old. So why is it an Australian brand trashed by a US company? Holden has been an American brand for a long time.

GMH's failure is the result of two decisions. Firstly deciding to sell cars not many people wanted or were able to buy.
Secondly and relatedly, deciding to concentrate on one customer, the State. The deal was give us the money or the workers will suffer. GMH and Ford managers did this year after year, extorting money out of the Federal government. When the State finally said no, the result was inevitable, especially considering Holden still continued to sell cars not many people wanted or were able to buy.

Select to expand quote

Harrow said..
I wondered how long until this would happen. They existed in name only...what was the point of continuing?

I heard the brand was on market last year for a peppercorn... $1... couldn't sell it for that...

Select to expand quote

JEG said..
car prices in Australia are ridiculous and not many of us can afford $10,000+ car and seeing car sales at $20,000 to 50,000+ is just nuts (is just a transportation, I know some you take it seriously ).

Also, I just can't believe were still in combustion engine technology, its so primitive.

I think some new cars are crazy cheap... particularly Japanese cars... Subaru, Mitsubishi, Nissan...

Of course, keeping up with Mr or Mrs Jones can change make things a little dearer... but that is choice...

The reality is, if we're gunna make an impact on car emissions, pollution, use of resources that go into making cars, the price or ownership model needs to change... a lot...

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..

JEG said..
car prices in Australia are ridiculous and not many of us can afford $10,000+ car and seeing car sales at $20,000 to 50,000+ is just nuts (is just a transportation, I know some you take it seriously ).

Also, I just can't believe were still in combustion engine technology, its so primitive.

You just contradicted yourself. Internal combustion engines are a proven design, reliable and cheap. You want to replace that with something else and still want cheaper cars?

If you want a cheap car, buy a second hand one, if all you want is cheap and proven.

yup, combustion engine is a primitive thinking and another reason why we're still stack in caveman thinking or combustion engine is because of the heavily regulated industries and who do you think control/makes this regulation

Select to expand quote

JEG said..

FormulaNova said..

JEG said..
car prices in Australia are ridiculous and not many of us can afford $10,000+ car and seeing car sales at $20,000 to 50,000+ is just nuts (is just a transportation, I know some you take it seriously ).

Also, I just can't believe were still in combustion engine technology, its so primitive.

You just contradicted yourself. Internal combustion engines are a proven design, reliable and cheap. You want to replace that with something else and still want cheaper cars?

If you want a cheap car, buy a second hand one, if all you want is cheap and proven.

yup, combustion engine is a primitive thinking and another reason why we're still stack in caveman thinking or combustion engine is because of the heavily regulated industries and who do you think control/makes this regulation

I don't understand your logic. New and innovative is often not cheap, so if you want a cheap car, ICE is your best option.

Thinking electric? Are the costs down low enough and the ability to recharge anywhere on par with petrol? No. So why are you comparing them and still saying cars are expensive?

Its like asking for a futuristic house with space age insulation properties and able to withstand hurricanes, but cheaper than existing construction methods. It doesn't make sense.

Give me a faster laptop too, but I only want to pay half price.

Select to expand quote

JEG said..

yup, combustion engine is a primitive thinking and another reason why we're still stack in caveman thinking or combustion engine is because of the heavily regulated industries and who do you think control/makes this regulation

Gee its annoying when people make statements like this... who do you think makes/controls this regulation? I don't know, you are the one inferring something, so you tell me and then tell me what their goal is?

Is it to produce less environmental damage?

Is it to stop people killing themselves in cars due to dodgy design practices?

Is it to stop people dying in preventable automotive accidents?

Is it to prevent people from adopting affordable electric cars?


You know you are allowed to build your own electric cars don't you, and there are even companies that will help you?

If you really want a cheap car, without all those regulations that cover things like seatbelts and cameras and luxuries like abs and fuel injection, just buy a car from the 70s. You will be winning.

Select to expand quote

Pugwash said..

JEG said..
car prices in Australia are ridiculous and not many of us can afford $10,000+ car and seeing car sales at $20,000 to 50,000+ is just nuts (is just a transportation, I know some you take it seriously ).

Also, I just can't believe were still in combustion engine technology, its so primitive.

I think some new cars are crazy cheap... particularly Japanese cars... Subaru, Mitsubishi, Nissan...

Of course, keeping up with Mr or Mrs Jones can change make things a little dearer... but that is choice...

The reality is, if we're gunna make an impact on car emissions, pollution, use of resources that go into making cars, the price or ownership model needs to change... a lot...

Maybe ride share services like Uber are a way to change this? Some people use them far more frequently than they would have ever used taxis, so maybe this is a benefit to the economy in the long run?

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..
Give me a faster laptop too, but I only want to pay half price.

Well, that kinda happens... but understand and agree with your point.

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..

Pugwash said..

JEG said..
car prices in Australia are ridiculous and not many of us can afford $10,000+ car and seeing car sales at $20,000 to 50,000+ is just nuts (is just a transportation, I know some you take it seriously ).

Also, I just can't believe were still in combustion engine technology, its so primitive.

I think some new cars are crazy cheap... particularly Japanese cars... Subaru, Mitsubishi, Nissan...

Of course, keeping up with Mr or Mrs Jones can change make things a little dearer... but that is choice...

The reality is, if we're gunna make an impact on car emissions, pollution, use of resources that go into making cars, the price or ownership model needs to change... a lot...

Maybe ride share services like Uber are a way to change this? Some people use them far more frequently than they would have ever used taxis, so maybe this is a benefit to the economy in the long run?

Ride sharing or even car sharing already exist...

Completely agree more use than taxis... I know quite a few people that use ride sharing instead of driving.

The ownership model for cars is ancient and a very inefficient use of capital and resources... it's not even a stretch of the imagination to see how cars can be fully autonomous, connected via an internet of things, picking the most efficient routes and passenger numbers using AI...

I read that electric vehicles are expected to hit price parity by 2025.

"An Australian brand name shelved by its American owner" is way more accurate ................ it's just another GM brand like "Chevrolet" or "Corvette"

Ford vs Holden

Holden supporters, do you admit that you lost?

Holden lost the plot with build quality , my sports wagon whilst nice to drive is pretty much worn out at 200 thou ks and interior falling apart , never had a problem with old buick motor good for 500 thou ks ,{VY} , would never buy anther GM brand again .

Select to expand quote

bjw said..
Ford vs Holden

Holden supporters, do you admit that you lost?

No ford drivers are still losers

Select to expand quote

bazz61 said..
Holden lost the plot with build quality , my sports wagon whilst nice to drive is pretty much worn out at 200 thou ks and interior falling apart , never had a problem with old buick motor good for 500 thou ks ,{VY} , would never buy anther GM brand again .

Really? How many cars really are that good after 200k kms?

My falcon felt good on the first 40k kms I drove it, but now you can feel that the shocks need replacing.

Select to expand quote

Pugwash said..

JEG said..
car prices in Australia are ridiculous and not many of us can afford $10,000+ car and seeing car sales at $20,000 to 50,000+ is just nuts (is just a transportation, I know some you take it seriously ).

Also, I just can't believe were still in combustion engine technology, its so primitive.

I think some new cars are crazy cheap... particularly Japanese cars... Subaru, Mitsubishi, Nissan...

Of course, keeping up with Mr or Mrs Jones can change make things a little dearer... but that is choice...

The reality is, if we're gunna make an impact on car emissions, pollution, use of resources that go into making cars, the price or ownership model needs to change... a lot...

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..

JEG said..

yup, combustion engine is a primitive thinking and another reason why we're still stack in caveman thinking or combustion engine is because of the heavily regulated industries and who do you think control/makes this regulation

Gee its annoying when people make statements like this... who do you think makes/controls this regulation? I don't know, you are the one inferring something, so you tell me and then tell me what their goal is?

Is it to produce less environmental damage?

Is it to stop people killing themselves in cars due to dodgy design practices?

Is it to stop people dying in preventable automotive accidents?

Is it to prevent people from adopting affordable electric cars?


You know you are allowed to build your own electric cars don't you, and there are even companies that will help you?

If you really want a cheap car, without all those regulations that cover things like seatbelts and cameras and luxuries like abs and fuel injection, just buy a car from the 70s. You will be winnin

I like that word logic.
It is complicated in general but I am speaking at the deathbed of the mind, at the brink of that darkness in which someone is drowning.
Anyway looks like will be driving combustion engine for a long while and then maybe electric cars after. Though I do feel the current car engine feels like an older person with the latest and greatest botox trying to look appealing with all the wizz bang electronics

Select to expand quote

bazz61 said..
Holden lost the plot with build quality , my sports wagon whilst nice to drive is pretty much worn out at 200 thou ks and interior falling apart , never had a problem with old buick motor good for 500 thou ks ,{VY} , would never buy anther GM brand again .

What did you buy now ol' mate, a Ford Ranger

Select to expand quote

FormulaNova said..

bazz61 said..
Holden lost the plot with build quality , my sports wagon whilst nice to drive is pretty much worn out at 200 thou ks and interior falling apart , never had a problem with old buick motor good for 500 thou ks ,{VY} , would never buy anther GM brand again .

Really? How many cars really are that good after 200k kms?

My falcon felt good on the first 40k kms I drove it, but now you can feel that the shocks need replacing.

mate it was falling apart at 140,000 ks , rear tailgate switch, head liner , dash components , aircon components , door handles , motor chewing oil , the Sdi motors wont see high milage unlike earlier models . wreckers are full of VE commys as not viable to repair .

Select to expand quote

bazz61 said..

FormulaNova said..

bazz61 said..
Holden lost the plot with build quality , my sports wagon whilst nice to drive is pretty much worn out at 200 thou ks and interior falling apart , never had a problem with old buick motor good for 500 thou ks ,{VY} , would never buy anther GM brand again .

Really? How many cars really are that good after 200k kms?

My falcon felt good on the first 40k kms I drove it, but now you can feel that the shocks need replacing.

mate it was falling apart at 140,000 ks , rear tailgate switch, head liner , dash components , aircon components , door handles , motor chewing oil , the Sdi motors wont see high milage unlike earlier models . wreckers are full of VE commys as not viable to repair .

I agree, that motor was a turkey. They had cam chain problems and my parents have a captiva with the same problem where the cost to repair is worth more than the car.

The buick motor was pretty rough in the vn, but by the vs it was smooth and powerfull, all without OHC.

I think sometimes the dealerships are the reason that some faults exist. They are often not the most interested in fixing warranty problems.

As for things like headliners, do any cars do well in Aus? I have had to replace them all once they get to a certain age.

Crappy built aged style vehicles. Wont be missed.
I bet if the gov offered the same amount for handouts to a Jap or Euro maker to establish a modern factory here it would be taken. But the union would complain of too many robots and it wouldnt happen.

Select to expand quote

bazz61 said..
Holden lost the plot with build quality , my sports wagon whilst nice to drive is pretty much worn out at 200 thou ks and interior falling apart , never had a problem with old buick motor good for 500 thou ks ,{VY} , would never buy anther GM brand again .

I think our cars suffer from being in a small market. If we sold ten times the volume, would they solve the problems easier?

If you are toyota and sell the same model in every market, you can get most things right, but even they make mistakes.

It is very sad with job losses but it makes sense, as GM has already several years ago sold the UK and German counterparts, Vauxhall and Opel to Groupe PSA (formerly known as PSA Peugeot Citroen), now itself merged with Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FCA). The exit from right hand drive brands was on the cards. Around two thirds of the countries in the world drive on the right side of the road (left hand drive) including the USA, China and Russia. General Motors has been making a slow retreat from other right-hand-drive countries over the past couple of years, getting out of lucrative markets such as the United Kingdom, Japan, India and South Africa. Australia is a very small, probably not lucrative nor a profitable market nor was Holden a brand that anyone wanted except in Australia and presumably Groupe PSA did not want it. The world car industry is rationalising otherwise it won't survive. Holden is a casualty that had to happen for GM to survive and stay in business.

www.cnbc.com/2020/02/05/general-motors-gm-earnings-q4-2019.html

GM got out of the UK a couple of years ago so not surprising as we were only rh country for them. Am I right in saying UK allows lh cars on road now. Not to worry aside from up market UK cars we have Japan and India left being RH countries with their own manufactured cars.So it'll be a Camry or a Tata in five years
Edit :didn't see above when posting

On a side note, the "Supercars" business model must be a bit shakey now with no manufacturer support and only one car (the Mustang) that looks like something you can buy at a dealership ............... is this a nail in the coffin for their business?

A big expense will be for the Holden dealer network having to rebrand everything to alternative brands.

We should be allowed to buy cars sold in the U.K. and drive them on the roads here. It's B.S. cars are cheaper there and can't be used here, especially German cars.

Select to expand quote

Paddles B'mere said..
On a side note, the "Supercars" business model must be a bit shakey now with no manufacturer support and only one car (the Mustang) that looks like something you can buy at a dealership ............... is this a nail in the coffin for their business?

Is anyone into Supercars or car racing in general nowadays? With all the global warming shouldn't this frivolous activities be wound back & eliminated?

The different championships try really hard to reduce their carbon footprint Moby, I think F1 have even placed limits on the number of mobile homes allowed at an event ................. true story