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Reply in Topic: Silly foil setups
YellowHelmet
YellowHelmet

109 posts

Tuesday,
24 Feb 2026 7:09pm
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utcminusfour said..

YellowHelmet said..


utcminusfour said..
I imagine the leviathans would fit on your fuse.
M8 is required.
At my size I know from firsthand experience that would it not be stiff or stout enough front wing connection. You may be fine at 75kg.
If you can uphaul and slog around on the Wizard 114 I reckon it would work fine. The foils are easy to turn and handle but you need enough float and stability to handle really light lulls with chop.
You may not need as much foil as I am using.
Your right it would be good to have an app that could help wade through all the options.
At the moment I am enjoying the challenge of exploring a design space that doesn't come with instructions.




I was thinking about Leviathan 1150 or Leviathan Pro 1260 + M6/M8 washers.

Also saw PTM999 and PTM1001 (are there even bigger HA Slingshot foils ?). Anyone experience with these foils for low wind in addition to PTM926.

I heard some brands (like Duotone) stop warranty with spans bigger than 100 cm.

So better not go to wide as well for turning.

Would the stress on the long carbon mast W103 be to stong ? I could use my old Hover Glide 90 cm with connector piece.

Slogging and uphailing sail on Wizard 114 liter is no problem for me at 75 kg, but I notice and friends say the rear of my board is low in the water creating drag.



It is the connection at the front wing that is weakest link with the compatible Sab and Slingshot options. Your mast will be fine.
I would strongly advise against using M6 bolts, you want to drill and tap or drill and add inserts to your fuse so you can use M8 screws.
I would recommend that upgrade even if you don't go for a bigger wing. Take it into a metal shop and have them do it if you not interested in DYI. The bigger screws are more forgiving and tolerant of sand and cross threading not to mention a lot stronger.
I have no experience with the Leviathan or PTM but the Leviathan are higher aspect.


Does this mean drilling through the fuselage and then treading, or can it be treaded without drilling through the fuselage. I have a threading set but this gear is for threading an open hole.

Once upgraded to M8 how do you fix the old PTM or PFI foils of Slingshot. Is it needed to make a tapered wider hole in the Slingshot frontfoils ?
Reply in Topic: Silly foil setups
YellowHelmet
YellowHelmet

109 posts

Tuesday,
24 Feb 2026 1:39am
Select to expand quote
utcminusfour said..
I imagine the leviathans would fit on your fuse.
M8 is required.
At my size I know from firsthand experience that would it not be stiff or stout enough front wing connection. You may be fine at 75kg.
If you can uphaul and slog around on the Wizard 114 I reckon it would work fine. The foils are easy to turn and handle but you need enough float and stability to handle really light lulls with chop.
You may not need as much foil as I am using.
Your right it would be good to have an app that could help wade through all the options.
At the moment I am enjoying the challenge of exploring a design space that doesn't come with instructions.


I was thinking about Leviathan 1150 or Leviathan Pro 1260 + M6/M8 washers.

Also saw PTM999 and PTM1001 (are there even bigger HA Slingshot foils ?). Anyone experience with these foils for low wind in addition to PTM926.

I heard some brands (like Duotone) stop warranty with spans bigger than 100 cm.

So better not go to wide as well for turning.

Would the stress on the long carbon mast W103 be to stong ? I could use my old Hover Glide 90 cm with connector piece.

Slogging and uphailing sail on Wizard 114 liter is no problem for me at 75 kg, but I notice and friends say the rear of my board is low in the water creating drag.
Reply in Topic: Silly foil setups
YellowHelmet
YellowHelmet

109 posts

Tuesday,
24 Feb 2026 1:26am
Select to expand quote
utcminusfour said..

YellowHelmet said..
Maybe it would be an idea to find out a formula, algorithm with all the necessary input and output data.

If not possible by formula, then by neural network, some AI.

Maybe some savant mathematical member can do this.

Input :

- Weight.

- Volume of the board, maybe also width.

- Size of the sail (camber or not).

- Span and surface of the front foil = aspect ratio (maybe thickness and volume).

- Maybe size of the stabilizer.

- Take off wind speed.

- Pumping : no - lazy - active

- Resulting cruising speed.

- Salt / fresh water (salinity)

- Other ?

All with sliders, all dynamically interacting, selecting what input(s) are to be changed for what output(s), for example asking for a take off wind speed of 10 knots by changing span / surface of the front foil for a given board size and fixed sail, or asking for the sail size for a fixed board and foil.

An app would be nice.

I think in commercial airliners there is a stall alarm when the steering wheel starts to shake. If this can be calculated for air foils, such should be possible for water foils.

This should also be possible for wingfoil and even windsurfing, but for windsurfing the window of possible changes by sail and board size to start planing is much more narrow than for foiling.

Dreaming about a wishbone with stall alarm that wakes me up when it's time to start pumping.







I think he's got a good point here. Why shouldn't we have a velocity prediction program for the entire package right? I mean there weren't even barely computers around and sailboat racing had every variable calculated in one place. Or even better how about a simulator! I've got some energy for that for sure. I don't have all the knowledge or data required, it's gotta be a community grassroots open source approach. Just planting that seed.


Maybe if we ask it nicely Boeing or Airbus could help us.

AI : Yes, payload weight is taken into account for airplane stick shaker activation. Stick shakers are triggered by the stall protection system, which calculates the critical Angle of Attack (AOA) based on total aircraft weight, including payload, fuel, and center of gravity, alongside airspeed and flap configuration.

Key details regarding payload and stick shakers:
Weight & Stall Speed: A higher payload increases the stall speed of the aircraft. As weight increases, a higher angle of attack (and thus higher lift) is required to maintain flight, meaning the stall warning (stick shaker) will activate at a higher airspeed compared to a lighter, less-loaded aircraft.
System Inputs: The stall protection system uses sensors (AOA vanes) to calculate margins, but the flight control computer constantly accounts for current gross weight to accurately predict when the aircraft is near a stall.
Safety Purpose: The system is designed to provide a "wake up" warning to the crew when the aircraft is approaching a critical angle of attack, typically 10-15 knots above the actual stall speed, regardless of how heavily the aircraft is loaded.
Reply in Topic: Silly foil setups
YellowHelmet
YellowHelmet

109 posts

Tuesday,
24 Feb 2026 1:26am
Select to expand quote
utcminusfour said..

YellowHelmet said..
Maybe it would be an idea to find out a formula, algorithm with all the necessary input and output data.

If not possible by formula, then by neural network, some AI.

Maybe some savant mathematical member can do this.

Input :

- Weight.

- Volume of the board, maybe also width.

- Size of the sail (camber or not).

- Span and surface of the front foil = aspect ratio (maybe thickness and volume).

- Maybe size of the stabilizer.

- Take off wind speed.

- Pumping : no - lazy - active

- Resulting cruising speed.

- Salt / fresh water (salinity)

- Other ?

All with sliders, all dynamically interacting, selecting what input(s) are to be changed for what output(s), for example asking for a take off wind speed of 10 knots by changing span / surface of the front foil for a given board size and fixed sail, or asking for the sail size for a fixed board and foil.

An app would be nice.

I think in commercial airliners there is a stall alarm when the steering wheel starts to shake. If this can be calculated for air foils, such should be possible for water foils.

This should also be possible for wingfoil and even windsurfing, but for windsurfing the window of possible changes by sail and board size to start planing is much more narrow than for foiling.

Dreaming about a wishbone with stall alarm that wakes me up when it's time to start pumping.







I think he's got a good point here. Why shouldn't we have a velocity prediction program for the entire package right? I mean there weren't even barely computers around and sailboat racing had every variable calculated in one place. Or even better how about a simulator! I've got some energy for that for sure. I don't have all the knowledge or data required, it's gotta be a community grassroots open source approach. Just planting that seed.


Maybe if we ask it nicely Boeing or Airbus could help us.

AI : Yes, payload weight is taken into account for airplane stick shaker activation. Stick shakers are triggered by the stall protection system, which calculates the critical Angle of Attack (AOA) based on total aircraft weight, including payload, fuel, and center of gravity, alongside airspeed and flap configuration.

Key details regarding payload and stick shakers:
Weight & Stall Speed: A higher payload increases the stall speed of the aircraft. As weight increases, a higher angle of attack (and thus higher lift) is required to maintain flight, meaning the stall warning (stick shaker) will activate at a higher airspeed compared to a lighter, less-loaded aircraft.
System Inputs: The stall protection system uses sensors (AOA vanes) to calculate margins, but the flight control computer constantly accounts for current gross weight to accurately predict when the aircraft is near a stall.
Safety Purpose: The system is designed to provide a "wake up" warning to the crew when the aircraft is approaching a critical angle of attack, typically 10-15 knots above the actual stall speed, regardless of how heavily the aircraft is loaded.
Reply in Topic: Silly foil setups
YellowHelmet
YellowHelmet

109 posts

21 Feb 2026 5:39am
Select to expand quote
utcminusfour said..

YellowHelmet said..


utcminusfour said..
Or another option is to add a pump foil and skip the large board and sails.
I am at 196 kg and can takeoff in 10 knots and fly through less using a 5.1 meter freestyle sail.
For me I am finding it not just for the very lightest days.
It makes marginal days magic days! If there any waves or wakes you can ride them endlessly without sail power or use them to get flying in a lull.
It is the only foil set up I have tried that I can actually get to go upwind in winds less than 15 knots.
The low stall speed is a great tool for learning new maneuvers, it gives you more time an opportunity to finish the move.




Nice, very nice.

So in the video you use a big board IQ, big sail 7 m and big foil with very high AR ?

How much wind ?

Severne Hydro better than SB IQ ?



That is not me in the insta vid. I am one_slice_short on insta, I did make a couple of comments on that post that are relevant to this convo.
The gent who posted said it was 5-7 knots. He is using an aluminum mast, a first gen red 899 windsurf fuse and PNG 1300 from Axis, this is all gear that can be found used at reasonable prices. Looks like an IQ board and Severn sail, he is friendly and I am sure he would answer any questions you may have.
The main point I am trying to convey is High AR is only part of what is needed for early flight, you need big span > 1100 and foil cross sections designed to be efficient for low-speed flight. Put your money into your foils first to reach your goal. A wide board is only needed to lever an 8+ meter sail, all that extra flat bottom actually makes it harder to get free. You may not need all that sail to reach your goals and if you don't then you do not need a separate big, dedicated board
Grantmac makes a good point about most of the large wings have fuselages that place the front wing too close to the mast for windsurfing.
I am not here to promote any one brand, but that detail is one of the main reasons I am riding Axis atm, they have a windsurfing fuse that accepts their large span wings, and the connections are up to the job. I am experimenting with the other sizes of off the shelf axis fuses as well as the Spitfire wings 900-1180, stand by for that post when I have more time with em, but so far I am thrilled.
Here is a pic of my current configuration for light air, I am 106 kg I can honestly say I can takeoff in 10 knots and that it is really fun especial in small swell. It goes upwind amazing! The day this pic was taken was magic, it had been blowing hard for days so there was nice left over wind waves, but the wind dropped to 8-12 and I surfed for hours. Board is a custom 2m x .71m x 150L. Sail 5.1 Severn R4D. Cedrus wind ~85cm foil mast, axis black 899 windsurf fuse, PNG v2 1200, progressive 450 stab.




Interesting.

The Axis PNG 1200 is unfortunately not compatible with my Slingshot W103 + Phantasm fuse.

Would a Sabfoil Leviathan 1150 or 1350 do well on the Phantasm fuse with conical washer M6 - M8 ? Or is this too big.

Or Leviathan Pro : too HA.

Or other compatible front foils. I think Slingshot has no such HA frontfoils.

Could Wizard V4 114 hold such a wide frontfoil.

I weigh 75 kg.

Reply in Topic: Silly foil setups
YellowHelmet
YellowHelmet

109 posts

21 Feb 2026 5:07am
Select to expand quote
Mr Keen said..

YellowHelmet said..
Maybe it would be an idea to find out a formula, algorithm with all the necessary input and output data.

If not possible by formula, then by neural network, some AI.

Maybe some savant mathematical member can do this.

Input :

- Weight.

- Volume of the board, maybe also width.

- Size of the sail (camber or not).

- Span and surface of the front foil = aspect ratio (maybe thickness and volume).

- Maybe size of the stabilizer.

- Take off wind speed.

- Pumping : no - lazy - active

- Resulting cruising speed.

- Salt / fresh water (salinity)

- Other ?

All with sliders, all dynamically interacting, selecting what input(s) are to be changed for what output(s), for example asking for a take off wind speed of 10 knots by changing span / surface of the front foil for a given board size and fixed sail, or asking for the sail size for a fixed board and foil.

An app would be nice.

I think in commercial airliners there is a stall alarm when the steering wheel starts to shake. If this can be calculated for air foils, such should be possible for water foils.

This should also be possible for wingfoil and even windsurfing, but for windsurfing the window of possible changes by sail and board size to start planing is much more narrow than for foiling.

Dreaming about a wishbone with stall alarm that wakes me up when it's time to start pumping.



Your other most reliable variable over looked variable would be skill level. There is nothing better than TOW for earlier flight.


Right, but that comes close to the scale of pumping.
Reply in Topic: Silly foil setups
YellowHelmet
YellowHelmet

109 posts

19 Feb 2026 7:17pm
Maybe it would be an idea to find out a formula, algorithm with all the necessary input and output data.

If not possible by formula, then by neural network, some AI.

Maybe some savant mathematical member can do this.

Input :

- Weight.

- Volume of the board, maybe also width.

- Size of the sail (camber or not).

- Span and surface of the front foil = aspect ratio (maybe thickness and volume).

- Maybe size of the stabilizer.

- Take off wind speed.

- Pumping : no - lazy - active

- Resulting cruising speed.

- Salt / fresh water (salinity)

- Other ?

All with sliders, all dynamically interacting, selecting what input(s) are to be changed for what output(s), for example asking for a take off wind speed of 10 knots by changing span / surface of the front foil for a given board size and fixed sail, or asking for the sail size for a fixed board and foil.

An app would be nice.

I think in commercial airliners there is a stall alarm when the steering wheel starts to shake. If this can be calculated for air foils, such should be possible for water foils.

This should also be possible for wingfoil and even windsurfing, but for windsurfing the window of possible changes by sail and board size to start planing is much more narrow than for foiling.

Dreaming about a wishbone with stall alarm that wakes me up when it's time to start pumping.
Reply in Topic: Silly foil setups
YellowHelmet
YellowHelmet

109 posts

19 Feb 2026 12:38am
Select to expand quote
utcminusfour said..
Or another option is to add a pump foil and skip the large board and sails.
I am at 196 kg and can takeoff in 10 knots and fly through less using a 5.1 meter freestyle sail.
For me I am finding it not just for the very lightest days.
It makes marginal days magic days! If there any waves or wakes you can ride them endlessly without sail power or use them to get flying in a lull.
It is the only foil set up I have tried that I can actually get to go upwind in winds less than 15 knots.
The low stall speed is a great tool for learning new maneuvers, it gives you more time an opportunity to finish the move.


Nice, very nice.

So in the video you use a big board IQ, big sail 7 m and big foil with very high AR ?

How much wind ?

Severne Hydro better than SB IQ ?
Reply in Topic: Silly foil setups
YellowHelmet
YellowHelmet

109 posts

18 Feb 2026 1:38am


I have no experience with bigger boards.

My interest is to lower the low wind limit to 10 knots, if possible even lower using Foilglide 7 m and 8 m.

1. What board would get into foil earlier : the shorter Levitator V2 160 liter 200 cm or the longer IQ yought or SB 144 liter or other similar boards ?

2. What kind of foil would work best with such boards : PTM926 + W103 or bigger/smaller, more HA ? Or is the PTM926 a bad combination with such boards ?

BTW : I experience that salt water gives more lift than fresh water.
Reply in Topic: Silly foil setups
YellowHelmet
YellowHelmet

109 posts

16 Feb 2026 2:34am



I learned the IQ youth 85 cm 153 liter has a stronger construction than the more fragile IQ senior 95 cm 196 liter. The latter seems really big to me.

Both seem to be suited for windsurfing as well, or is this more theoretical ?

Having no experience with bigger boards than Wizard 125 or 114 I ask myself :

- Does the larger surface help to get on foil because of more buoyancy > speed or does it makes the board stick more to the water due to capillarity, or is this effect counter compensated by the buoyancy ?

- Is PTM926 a good foil for such a board, or do I need smaller (or bigger ?) surface and/or higher aspect ratio.

- The boards are 215 cm / 220 cm. Does this makes a problem for swingweight compared to the shorter Levitator V2 160 liter 200 cm.

My main objective is to drop the low wind limit to 10 knots or even lower using Foilglide3 7 and 8 m.

Maximum speed is not an aim, flying is the purpose.

Here nearly every body is wingfoiling and experienced riders start at 8 knots with narrow mid sized boards using 5 m 5 or even 4 m 5 with high aspect wings, mostly Gong.

Would like to catch up with them. Think my Wizard will not do it or is it because of me ?

Or other bigger boards ?
Reply in Topic: Duotone E Pace SLS
YellowHelmet
YellowHelmet

109 posts

16 Feb 2026 2:03am

I tested the F-type 7 m 4 (not the F-type cam) which has 2 sleeve inducers.

I didn't like it for low wind.

Although the sail looks nice and is of good quality.

The stickers for min and max on the sail are very close 10 cm to each other.

Somebody more savant than me (here or other forum) pointed out that the very narrow wishbones (like also on Naish RN lift) are not good for easy pumping for early flying, but are good for a wide high wind range.

The externa sleeve inducers are strange to me.

I got Severne Foilglide3 7 m and 8 m and am satisfied. Easy 3 cam rotation, small wishbone 203 cm / 211 cm but not to small, and light with Severne Blue RDM 460 cm.
Reply in Topic: Silly foil setups
YellowHelmet
YellowHelmet

109 posts

12 Feb 2026 11:44pm
Select to expand quote
Hydrosurf said..
I use a 160 Slingshot levitator with an 8.2 sailworks flyer for light winds.


Yes, I was also thinking about Livitator.

What foil are you using with the levitator 160 liter + 8 m 2 sail ?What is you low wind limit and your weight ?
Reply in Topic: Silly foil setups
YellowHelmet
YellowHelmet

109 posts

11 Feb 2026 5:10am
I tried something similar.

I had a Wizard 125, W103 and PTM926 with Gator 6 m 5 and 8 m, 8 m a bit big but OK once foiling. The 6 m 5 Gator 188 cm wishbone has another layout than the 8 m that has a cut away 198 cm wishbone but much wider sail.

Now I have a Wizard 115 : Gator 6 m 5 is good.

I tried Foilglide3 7 m and 8 m. Uphauling is no problem for me 75 kg.

Once on foil the 7 m is OK on the Wizard 115. But the 8 m is too big I think on the Wizard 115. Friends say the end of my board is under water.

Have to try the Foilglide 8 with the Wizard 125.

But I guess the Wizard 125 will be also too small for the Foilglide 8.

I was thinking about a second hand IQ Foil 85 cm youth for using the W103 + PTM926 + Foilglide 7 m and 8 m, but then I would need the extra weight of the jack plate.

Or a big Duotone Stingray ?

Any ideas for a good low wind board for the PTM926 + Foilglide 7 and 8 ?
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