With how many different foil kits there were for a while, and many different hybrid/dedicated boards, seems like there have been a lot of different setups that work.

Here's something that seemed really silly to me and I almost didn't try. I had my 8.0 cheetah rigged because it was windy enough to fin, and I wanted to try using my select carbon slalom fin instead of a weed fin, as the weeds were actually tame. The difference was amazing, and I forgot what a real upright fin felt like on my Blast. The wind dropped off after an hour, and I had my freestyle 115 with me (and ptm 926), so I figured I would try it.

An 8.0 seems ridiculous. Normally I limit myself to the 7.0 foil glide, which is a bit difficult to uphaul on this board at my weight (over 95kg at the moment...), but very nice for light wind freeride. I have tried the 7.5 gator on it, but never the 8.0. It just seemed to big. But, it was rigged, I didn't have my foil glides (I mistakenly thought it would be windy enough for my freeks...yet again), and I didn't want to unrig just to rerig my 6.7 blade.

Well, it turns out it worked. I put it well forward of where I put the foil glide 7 or the freeks, because it's got a center of effort further back. I uphauled it once, sinking like crazy, but other than that just waterstarted when I fell in. It felt a bit awkward to pump, but it didn't need a whole lot of pumping. I think it would gust sometimes up to 15kts and I didn't feel like it was too out of hand, but I definitely felt the mast flex and the sail twist a lot compared to the foil glides. To sheet in I ha to move right out on the rail on both feet, which really put me outside of the straps. Jibing felt a bit awkward but it was sorta doable for my skill level.

Figured I would share it because it was kind of funny and a moment of desperation when I didn't have the ideal gear with me. A buddy got a video of me doing a side by side and jibe that I had a big touchdown on but kept going:

I, too, have been accused of trying to keep my foil mast from getting too much UV exposure.

Good on you for throwing stuff together and having a go. Better than sitting on the beach overthinking it.

Select to expand quote

Paducah said..
I, too, have been accused of trying to keep my foil mast from getting too much UV exposure.

Good on you for throwing stuff together and having a go. Better than sitting on the beach overthinking it.

Yeah with that one I tend to ride low as it's the 87cm. I want to try jumping it but every time I've gone out lately it's big sail weather and jumping feels awkward.

One of these days I'll swap the longer mast out again (now I can't remember if it's the 103w or 125w). With that board, the long mast is kind of a weird setup. It sinks so much that I can walk out where it's deep enough and if I'm underpowered and not waterstarting, I'm basically standing on the board, which has a foil bottomed out on the ground. When the tide is low or the spot isn't as deep I run into that issue far less, as that extra 6" or so of sink really can stop things.

Select to expand quote

aeroegnr said..

Paducah said..
I, too, have been accused of trying to keep my foil mast from getting too much UV exposure.

Good on you for throwing stuff together and having a go. Better than sitting on the beach overthinking it.

Yeah with that one I tend to ride low as it's the 87cm. I want to try jumping it but every time I've gone out lately it's big sail weather and jumping feels awkward.

One of these days I'll swap the longer mast out again (now I can't remember if it's the 103w or 125w). With that board, the long mast is kind of a weird setup. It sinks so much that I can walk out where it's deep enough and if I'm underpowered and not waterstarting, I'm basically standing on the board, which has a foil bottomed out on the ground. When the tide is low or the spot isn't as deep I run into that issue far less, as that extra 6" or so of sink really can stop things.

I hear ya. Recently been spending time on an 85cm mast and the first day out was... entertaining after so much time on 95s (25kt gusts). When I get tired, I start riding lower for some reason. The other day I went into a jibe in pretty rough water, kind of low and halfway through could tell if I continued it would end badly. Bailed on the jibe by swinging back to the original direction and tried it again.

However, I've often been accused of riding low. This may or may not have been posted about me.

%3D%3D

I tried something similar.

I had a Wizard 125, W103 and PTM926 with Gator 6 m 5 and 8 m, 8 m a bit big but OK once foiling. The 6 m 5 Gator 188 cm wishbone has another layout than the 8 m that has a cut away 198 cm wishbone but much wider sail.

Now I have a Wizard 115 : Gator 6 m 5 is good.

I tried Foilglide3 7 m and 8 m. Uphauling is no problem for me 75 kg.

Once on foil the 7 m is OK on the Wizard 115. But the 8 m is too big I think on the Wizard 115. Friends say the end of my board is under water.

Have to try the Foilglide 8 with the Wizard 125.

But I guess the Wizard 125 will be also too small for the Foilglide 8.

I was thinking about a second hand IQ Foil 85 cm youth for using the W103 + PTM926 + Foilglide 7 m and 8 m, but then I would need the extra weight of the jack plate.

Or a big Duotone Stingray ?

Any ideas for a good low wind board for the PTM926 + Foilglide 7 and 8 ?

I use a 160 Slingshot levitator with an 8.2 sailworks flyer for light winds.

Select to expand quote

Hydrosurf said..
I use a 160 Slingshot levitator with an 8.2 sailworks flyer for light winds.

Yes, I was also thinking about Livitator.

What foil are you using with the levitator 160 liter + 8 m 2 sail ?What is you low wind limit and your weight ?

The jackplate, imho, is a bodge. It is well machined and fits fine but not only a little heavy but the drag at take off was, for me, surprisingly noticeable and disappointing.
It does work for other people who seem happy with it.
I'm smaller than average and the type to obsess over bottom/foil finish and early take off so my impressions may not be relevant.
Otherwise, the iq jr board would be an interesting choice. No direct experience but seeing a female PWA competitor do well with one was eye opening.

I learned the IQ youth 85 cm 153 liter has a stronger construction than the more fragile IQ senior 95 cm 196 liter. The latter seems really big to me.

Both seem to be suited for windsurfing as well, or is this more theoretical ?

Having no experience with bigger boards than Wizard 125 or 114 I ask myself :

- Does the larger surface help to get on foil because of more buoyancy > speed or does it makes the board stick more to the water due to capillarity, or is this effect counter compensated by the buoyancy ?

- Is PTM926 a good foil for such a board, or do I need smaller (or bigger ?) surface and/or higher aspect ratio.

- The boards are 215 cm / 220 cm. Does this makes a problem for swingweight compared to the shorter Levitator V2 160 liter 200 cm.

My main objective is to drop the low wind limit to 10 knots or even lower using Foilglide3 7 and 8 m.

Maximum speed is not an aim, flying is the purpose.

Here nearly every body is wingfoiling and experienced riders start at 8 knots with narrow mid sized boards using 5 m 5 or even 4 m 5 with high aspect wings, mostly Gong.

Would like to catch up with them. Think my Wizard will not do it or is it because of me ?

Or other bigger boards ?

Select to expand quote

YellowHelmet said..



I learned the IQ youth 85 cm 153 liter has a stronger construction than the more fragile IQ senior 95 cm 196 liter. The latter seems really big to me.

i've no idea of the construction in the IQ youth board, but willing to believe it possibly is given the construction on the senior board

Both seem to be suited for windsurfing as well, or is this more theoretical ?


The original idea was that the high wind races (IQ) would be sailed with a fin, so the boards were somewhat designed with the ability to be sailed with a fin. I believe the iq kit originally came supplied with a fin. As history tells, the racers didn't like the idea, and just got better at foiling in high winds instead. So yeah, usable as a fin board, but heavily orientated to course racing on the foil.



Having no experience with bigger boards than Wizard 125 or 114 I ask myself :

- Does the larger surface help to get on foil because of more buoyancy > speed or does it makes the board stick more to the water due to capillarity, or is this effect counter compensated by the buoyancy ?

nup. I can get my smaller windfoiling board to pop much easier than my formula foil board. Even when there's plenty of wind for the big board, it's harder to get on the foil than the smaller board when it's under done. The extra width is much more about controlling the foil and driving it upwind/downwind/maximizing angles

- Is PTM926 a good foil for such a board, or do I need smaller (or bigger ?) surface and/or higher aspect ratio.


PTM? Phantom? Course race foil? If so then yes, will work. If it's not their course race foil, it'll still work, but it'll have a reduced ability to climb on the angles that a course race foil will. What you want is a longer fuse (equivalent to the iq 115+) and a 900+ highish aspect front wing


- The boards are 215 cm / 220 cm. Does this makes a problem for swingweight compared to the shorter Levitator V2 160 liter 200 cm.

will you feel a difference? Maybe. Will it be a problem? No, not really. You'll bump the mast track around a bit and find the happy spot for it to be. And that'll more than likely be that. It won't be an insurmountable problem.

My main objective is to drop the low wind limit to 10 knots or even lower using Foilglide3 7 and 8 m.

Provided you're not 100+kg, Yep, doable. You'll be on the 8m, and will more than likely have to pump to get up, but you'll keep going once up.

Maximum speed is not an aim, flying is the purpose.

Here nearly every body is wingfoiling and experienced riders start at 8 knots with narrow mid sized boards using 5 m 5 or even 4 m 5 with high aspect wings, mostly Gong.

Would like to catch up with them. Think my Wizard will not do it or is it because of me ?

Wingfoilers are getting faster and more efficient gear now. They have to be on the right gear, but there are a couple of them here that go up against the local IQ foilers, and it's more a question of are they better at doing the wing foiling than the iq foiler is at iq foiling as to who will win. Not like a couple of years ago when the gear meant they had no chance. I guess it's down to how the wing foilers are where you are. Are they on the race gear? It's like for like. If they're on the race gear and know how to use it, and you aren't then it's going to be a bit more of a mission to match up with them.

I don't know if the youth iq came with a fin but I've used the adult iq with a fin and it's... ok in desperation when the tide is too low to foil but quite awkward. I don't like it in fin mode that much and in higher winds I'd rather add rake and foil because it feels safer and I have more upwind/downwind options.

Never used it with the ptm. I do feel the difference in board swing weight between my 115 freestyle and it but that's a much smaller board

I also ran a jackplate with a foilx 145. It worked but it also tended to collect weeds at the front.

Yes, the iQfoil youth came with a fin it that was the idea. I think the idea was to use it with strong winds but I don't think that ever happened. I have a SB 144l 85cm foil board. It is very very similar to the iQfoil youth. I was using a Roberts 76 freerace board with the iQfoil foil and I felt from the time I started using the SB 144 that I was easier to get foiling. I think for me the main thing was that it made it easier to keep the board flat when pumping.

I use the levitator with 7.0 and infinity 76. 8.2 with infinity 86. I weigh 95 kg. Can get going in 10 knots gusting to 15.

I have no experience with bigger boards.

My interest is to lower the low wind limit to 10 knots, if possible even lower using Foilglide 7 m and 8 m.

1. What board would get into foil earlier : the shorter Levitator V2 160 liter 200 cm or the longer IQ yought or SB 144 liter or other similar boards ?

2. What kind of foil would work best with such boards : PTM926 + W103 or bigger/smaller, more HA ? Or is the PTM926 a bad combination with such boards ?

BTW : I experience that salt water gives more lift than fresh water.

Or another option is to add a pump foil and skip the large board and sails.
I am at 196 kg and can takeoff in 10 knots and fly through less using a 5.1 meter freestyle sail.
For me I am finding it not just for the very lightest days.
It makes marginal days magic days! If there any waves or wakes you can ride them endlessly without sail power or use them to get flying in a lull.
It is the only foil set up I have tried that I can actually get to go upwind in winds less than 15 knots.
The low stall speed is a great tool for learning new maneuvers, it gives you more time an opportunity to finish the move.

Or keep the big gear and add a pump foil.
www.instagram.com/reel/DTHlxYBE1Fo/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==

The levitator 160 works well with pfi730 and ptm 926.

Select to expand quote

utcminusfour said..
Or another option is to add a pump foil and skip the large board and sails.
I am at 196 kg and can takeoff in 10 knots and fly through less using a 5.1 meter freestyle sail.
For me I am finding it not just for the very lightest days.
It makes marginal days magic days! If there any waves or wakes you can ride them endlessly without sail power or use them to get flying in a lull.
It is the only foil set up I have tried that I can actually get to go upwind in winds less than 15 knots.
The low stall speed is a great tool for learning new maneuvers, it gives you more time an opportunity to finish the move.

Nice, very nice.

So in the video you use a big board IQ, big sail 7 m and big foil with very high AR ?

How much wind ?

Severne Hydro better than SB IQ ?

I know someone who is ~105kg using a larger board and the SAB Leviathan Pro 1360 with large sails in Seattle, which is infamous for days where there is 8-12kts with deep lulls. It's the only thing that gets him going.
The big problem is fuselages which put the foil far enough forward. I believe he's had to do some adaption.

Ok
now i understand a bit better what you're trying to do i wouldn't bother. Bout the only thing it'll give you is a bit more float in the lulls when you're not going. And thats really only of help if you weigh enough to need it.

right forum thread though

These setups seem tame.
one day was up at Myall lakes with barely 6-8 knots blowing so I had my 8m rigged hoping for the best and waiting. Then it finally picked up to about 12 and I thought. why not try the 400 front wing. Managed to pump it up for two runs. Felt fine once up! I remember thinking. how is this working???
I've also done 32kts on a 7m sail and the 400 CA older front wing. I'm often amazed at how well the smaller HA foils work!

Maybe it would be an idea to find out a formula, algorithm with all the necessary input and output data.

If not possible by formula, then by neural network, some AI.

Maybe some savant mathematical member can do this.

Input :

- Weight.

- Volume of the board, maybe also width.

- Size of the sail (camber or not).

- Span and surface of the front foil = aspect ratio (maybe thickness and volume).

- Maybe size of the stabilizer.

- Take off wind speed.

- Pumping : no - lazy - active

- Resulting cruising speed.

- Salt / fresh water (salinity)

- Other ?

All with sliders, all dynamically interacting, selecting what input(s) are to be changed for what output(s), for example asking for a take off wind speed of 10 knots by changing span / surface of the front foil for a given board size and fixed sail, or asking for the sail size for a fixed board and foil.

An app would be nice.

I think in commercial airliners there is a stall alarm when the steering wheel starts to shake. If this can be calculated for air foils, such should be possible for water foils.

This should also be possible for wingfoil and even windsurfing, but for windsurfing the window of possible changes by sail and board size to start planing is much more narrow than for foiling.

Dreaming about a wishbone with stall alarm that wakes me up when it's time to start pumping.

Select to expand quote

YellowHelmet said..
Maybe it would be an idea to find out a formula, algorithm with all the necessary input and output data.

If not possible by formula, then by neural network, some AI.

Maybe some savant mathematical member can do this.

Input :

- Weight.

- Volume of the board, maybe also width.

- Size of the sail (camber or not).

- Span and surface of the front foil = aspect ratio (maybe thickness and volume).

- Maybe size of the stabilizer.

- Take off wind speed.

- Pumping : no - lazy - active

- Resulting cruising speed.

- Salt / fresh water (salinity)

- Other ?

All with sliders, all dynamically interacting, selecting what input(s) are to be changed for what output(s), for example asking for a take off wind speed of 10 knots by changing span / surface of the front foil for a given board size and fixed sail, or asking for the sail size for a fixed board and foil.

An app would be nice.

I think in commercial airliners there is a stall alarm when the steering wheel starts to shake. If this can be calculated for air foils, such should be possible for water foils.

This should also be possible for wingfoil and even windsurfing, but for windsurfing the window of possible changes by sail and board size to start planing is much more narrow than for foiling.

Dreaming about a wishbone with stall alarm that wakes me up when it's time to start pumping.

Your other most reliable variable over looked variable would be skill level. There is nothing better than TOW for earlier flight.

Select to expand quote

YellowHelmet said..

utcminusfour said..
Or another option is to add a pump foil and skip the large board and sails.
I am at 196 kg and can takeoff in 10 knots and fly through less using a 5.1 meter freestyle sail.
For me I am finding it not just for the very lightest days.
It makes marginal days magic days! If there any waves or wakes you can ride them endlessly without sail power or use them to get flying in a lull.
It is the only foil set up I have tried that I can actually get to go upwind in winds less than 15 knots.
The low stall speed is a great tool for learning new maneuvers, it gives you more time an opportunity to finish the move.

Nice, very nice.

So in the video you use a big board IQ, big sail 7 m and big foil with very high AR ?

How much wind ?

Severne Hydro better than SB IQ ?

That is not me in the insta vid. I am one_slice_short on insta, I did make a couple of comments on that post that are relevant to this convo.
The gent who posted said it was 5-7 knots. He is using an aluminum mast, a first gen red 899 windsurf fuse and PNG 1300 from Axis, this is all gear that can be found used at reasonable prices. Looks like an IQ board and Severn sail, he is friendly and I am sure he would answer any questions you may have.
The main point I am trying to convey is High AR is only part of what is needed for early flight, you need big span > 1100 and foil cross sections designed to be efficient for low-speed flight. Put your money into your foils first to reach your goal. A wide board is only needed to lever an 8+ meter sail, all that extra flat bottom actually makes it harder to get free. You may not need all that sail to reach your goals and if you don't then you do not need a separate big, dedicated board
Grantmac makes a good point about most of the large wings have fuselages that place the front wing too close to the mast for windsurfing.
I am not here to promote any one brand, but that detail is one of the main reasons I am riding Axis atm, they have a windsurfing fuse that accepts their large span wings, and the connections are up to the job. I am experimenting with the other sizes of off the shelf axis fuses as well as the Spitfire wings 900-1180, stand by for that post when I have more time with em, but so far I am thrilled.
Here is a pic of my current configuration for light air, I am 106 kg I can honestly say I can takeoff in 10 knots and that it is really fun especial in small swell. It goes upwind amazing! The day this pic was taken was magic, it had been blowing hard for days so there was nice left over wind waves, but the wind dropped to 8-12 and I surfed for hours. Board is a custom 2m x .71m x 150L. Sail 5.1 Severn R4D. Cedrus wind ~85cm foil mast, axis black 899 windsurf fuse, PNG v2 1200, progressive 450 stab.

Select to expand quote

Mr Keen said..

YellowHelmet said..
Maybe it would be an idea to find out a formula, algorithm with all the necessary input and output data.

If not possible by formula, then by neural network, some AI.

Maybe some savant mathematical member can do this.

Input :

- Weight.

- Volume of the board, maybe also width.

- Size of the sail (camber or not).

- Span and surface of the front foil = aspect ratio (maybe thickness and volume).

- Maybe size of the stabilizer.

- Take off wind speed.

- Pumping : no - lazy - active

- Resulting cruising speed.

- Salt / fresh water (salinity)

- Other ?

All with sliders, all dynamically interacting, selecting what input(s) are to be changed for what output(s), for example asking for a take off wind speed of 10 knots by changing span / surface of the front foil for a given board size and fixed sail, or asking for the sail size for a fixed board and foil.

An app would be nice.

I think in commercial airliners there is a stall alarm when the steering wheel starts to shake. If this can be calculated for air foils, such should be possible for water foils.

This should also be possible for wingfoil and even windsurfing, but for windsurfing the window of possible changes by sail and board size to start planing is much more narrow than for foiling.

Dreaming about a wishbone with stall alarm that wakes me up when it's time to start pumping.

Your other most reliable variable over looked variable would be skill level. There is nothing better than TOW for earlier flight.

Right, but that comes close to the scale of pumping.

Select to expand quote

utcminusfour said..

YellowHelmet said..

utcminusfour said..
Or another option is to add a pump foil and skip the large board and sails.
I am at 196 kg and can takeoff in 10 knots and fly through less using a 5.1 meter freestyle sail.
For me I am finding it not just for the very lightest days.
It makes marginal days magic days! If there any waves or wakes you can ride them endlessly without sail power or use them to get flying in a lull.
It is the only foil set up I have tried that I can actually get to go upwind in winds less than 15 knots.
The low stall speed is a great tool for learning new maneuvers, it gives you more time an opportunity to finish the move.

Nice, very nice.

So in the video you use a big board IQ, big sail 7 m and big foil with very high AR ?

How much wind ?

Severne Hydro better than SB IQ ?

That is not me in the insta vid. I am one_slice_short on insta, I did make a couple of comments on that post that are relevant to this convo.
The gent who posted said it was 5-7 knots. He is using an aluminum mast, a first gen red 899 windsurf fuse and PNG 1300 from Axis, this is all gear that can be found used at reasonable prices. Looks like an IQ board and Severn sail, he is friendly and I am sure he would answer any questions you may have.
The main point I am trying to convey is High AR is only part of what is needed for early flight, you need big span > 1100 and foil cross sections designed to be efficient for low-speed flight. Put your money into your foils first to reach your goal. A wide board is only needed to lever an 8+ meter sail, all that extra flat bottom actually makes it harder to get free. You may not need all that sail to reach your goals and if you don't then you do not need a separate big, dedicated board
Grantmac makes a good point about most of the large wings have fuselages that place the front wing too close to the mast for windsurfing.
I am not here to promote any one brand, but that detail is one of the main reasons I am riding Axis atm, they have a windsurfing fuse that accepts their large span wings, and the connections are up to the job. I am experimenting with the other sizes of off the shelf axis fuses as well as the Spitfire wings 900-1180, stand by for that post when I have more time with em, but so far I am thrilled.
Here is a pic of my current configuration for light air, I am 106 kg I can honestly say I can takeoff in 10 knots and that it is really fun especial in small swell. It goes upwind amazing! The day this pic was taken was magic, it had been blowing hard for days so there was nice left over wind waves, but the wind dropped to 8-12 and I surfed for hours. Board is a custom 2m x .71m x 150L. Sail 5.1 Severn R4D. Cedrus wind ~85cm foil mast, axis black 899 windsurf fuse, PNG v2 1200, progressive 450 stab.

Interesting.

The Axis PNG 1200 is unfortunately not compatible with my Slingshot W103 + Phantasm fuse.

Would a Sabfoil Leviathan 1150 or 1350 do well on the Phantasm fuse with conical washer M6 - M8 ? Or is this too big.

Or Leviathan Pro : too HA.

Or other compatible front foils. I think Slingshot has no such HA frontfoils.

Could Wizard V4 114 hold such a wide frontfoil.

I weigh 75 kg.

I imagine the leviathans would fit on your fuse.
M8 is required.
At my size I know from firsthand experience that would it not be stiff or stout enough front wing connection. You may be fine at 75kg.
If you can uphaul and slog around on the Wizard 114 I reckon it would work fine. The foils are easy to turn and handle but you need enough float and stability to handle really light lulls with chop.
You may not need as much foil as I am using.
Your right it would be good to have an app that could help wade through all the options.
At the moment I am enjoying the challenge of exploring a design space that doesn't come with instructions.

My big friend using the Leviathan found it really doesn't want to turn. Gybes were a struggle and it traded glide for pump.
The Leviathan Pro was easier for him.

Select to expand quote

YellowHelmet said..
Maybe it would be an idea to find out a formula, algorithm with all the necessary input and output data.

If not possible by formula, then by neural network, some AI.

Maybe some savant mathematical member can do this.

Input :

- Weight.

- Volume of the board, maybe also width.

- Size of the sail (camber or not).

- Span and surface of the front foil = aspect ratio (maybe thickness and volume).

- Maybe size of the stabilizer.

- Take off wind speed.

- Pumping : no - lazy - active

- Resulting cruising speed.

- Salt / fresh water (salinity)

- Other ?

All with sliders, all dynamically interacting, selecting what input(s) are to be changed for what output(s), for example asking for a take off wind speed of 10 knots by changing span / surface of the front foil for a given board size and fixed sail, or asking for the sail size for a fixed board and foil.

An app would be nice.

I think in commercial airliners there is a stall alarm when the steering wheel starts to shake. If this can be calculated for air foils, such should be possible for water foils.

This should also be possible for wingfoil and even windsurfing, but for windsurfing the window of possible changes by sail and board size to start planing is much more narrow than for foiling.

Dreaming about a wishbone with stall alarm that wakes me up when it's time to start pumping.

I think he's got a good point here. Why shouldn't we have a velocity prediction program for the entire package right? I mean there weren't even barely computers around and sailboat racing had every variable calculated in one place. Or even better how about a simulator! I've got some energy for that for sure. I don't have all the knowledge or data required, it's gotta be a community grassroots open source approach. Just planting that seed.

Select to expand quote

utcminusfour said..

YellowHelmet said..
Maybe it would be an idea to find out a formula, algorithm with all the necessary input and output data.

If not possible by formula, then by neural network, some AI.

Maybe some savant mathematical member can do this.

Input :

- Weight.

- Volume of the board, maybe also width.

- Size of the sail (camber or not).

- Span and surface of the front foil = aspect ratio (maybe thickness and volume).

- Maybe size of the stabilizer.

- Take off wind speed.

- Pumping : no - lazy - active

- Resulting cruising speed.

- Salt / fresh water (salinity)

- Other ?

All with sliders, all dynamically interacting, selecting what input(s) are to be changed for what output(s), for example asking for a take off wind speed of 10 knots by changing span / surface of the front foil for a given board size and fixed sail, or asking for the sail size for a fixed board and foil.

An app would be nice.

I think in commercial airliners there is a stall alarm when the steering wheel starts to shake. If this can be calculated for air foils, such should be possible for water foils.

This should also be possible for wingfoil and even windsurfing, but for windsurfing the window of possible changes by sail and board size to start planing is much more narrow than for foiling.

Dreaming about a wishbone with stall alarm that wakes me up when it's time to start pumping.

I think he's got a good point here. Why shouldn't we have a velocity prediction program for the entire package right? I mean there weren't even barely computers around and sailboat racing had every variable calculated in one place. Or even better how about a simulator! I've got some energy for that for sure. I don't have all the knowledge or data required, it's gotta be a community grassroots open source approach. Just planting that seed.

Maybe if we ask it nicely Boeing or Airbus could help us.

AI : Yes, payload weight is taken into account for airplane stick shaker activation. Stick shakers are triggered by the stall protection system, which calculates the critical Angle of Attack (AOA) based on total aircraft weight, including payload, fuel, and center of gravity, alongside airspeed and flap configuration.

Key details regarding payload and stick shakers:
Weight & Stall Speed: A higher payload increases the stall speed of the aircraft. As weight increases, a higher angle of attack (and thus higher lift) is required to maintain flight, meaning the stall warning (stick shaker) will activate at a higher airspeed compared to a lighter, less-loaded aircraft.
System Inputs: The stall protection system uses sensors (AOA vanes) to calculate margins, but the flight control computer constantly accounts for current gross weight to accurately predict when the aircraft is near a stall.
Safety Purpose: The system is designed to provide a "wake up" warning to the crew when the aircraft is approaching a critical angle of attack, typically 10-15 knots above the actual stall speed, regardless of how heavily the aircraft is loaded.

Select to expand quote

utcminusfour said..

YellowHelmet said..
Maybe it would be an idea to find out a formula, algorithm with all the necessary input and output data.

If not possible by formula, then by neural network, some AI.

Maybe some savant mathematical member can do this.

Input :

- Weight.

- Volume of the board, maybe also width.

- Size of the sail (camber or not).

- Span and surface of the front foil = aspect ratio (maybe thickness and volume).

- Maybe size of the stabilizer.

- Take off wind speed.

- Pumping : no - lazy - active

- Resulting cruising speed.

- Salt / fresh water (salinity)

- Other ?

All with sliders, all dynamically interacting, selecting what input(s) are to be changed for what output(s), for example asking for a take off wind speed of 10 knots by changing span / surface of the front foil for a given board size and fixed sail, or asking for the sail size for a fixed board and foil.

An app would be nice.

I think in commercial airliners there is a stall alarm when the steering wheel starts to shake. If this can be calculated for air foils, such should be possible for water foils.

This should also be possible for wingfoil and even windsurfing, but for windsurfing the window of possible changes by sail and board size to start planing is much more narrow than for foiling.

Dreaming about a wishbone with stall alarm that wakes me up when it's time to start pumping.

I think he's got a good point here. Why shouldn't we have a velocity prediction program for the entire package right? I mean there weren't even barely computers around and sailboat racing had every variable calculated in one place. Or even better how about a simulator! I've got some energy for that for sure. I don't have all the knowledge or data required, it's gotta be a community grassroots open source approach. Just planting that seed.

Maybe if we ask it nicely Boeing or Airbus could help us.

AI : Yes, payload weight is taken into account for airplane stick shaker activation. Stick shakers are triggered by the stall protection system, which calculates the critical Angle of Attack (AOA) based on total aircraft weight, including payload, fuel, and center of gravity, alongside airspeed and flap configuration.

Key details regarding payload and stick shakers:
Weight & Stall Speed: A higher payload increases the stall speed of the aircraft. As weight increases, a higher angle of attack (and thus higher lift) is required to maintain flight, meaning the stall warning (stick shaker) will activate at a higher airspeed compared to a lighter, less-loaded aircraft.
System Inputs: The stall protection system uses sensors (AOA vanes) to calculate margins, but the flight control computer constantly accounts for current gross weight to accurately predict when the aircraft is near a stall.
Safety Purpose: The system is designed to provide a "wake up" warning to the crew when the aircraft is approaching a critical angle of attack, typically 10-15 knots above the actual stall speed, regardless of how heavily the aircraft is loaded.