hi smart people

what is best comparison metric for axis front wings model to model

eg say I got png 910, what is the art equivalent

span length or surface area?

cheers

You can't really compare the PNG 910 to the ARTs.

910 has a much fatter section for early lift and bottom end, but not much top end. Very traditional outline (for early Axis foils). Super well behaved in choppy water and carves/turns great for its span.

To get the same bottom end and early lift from an ART you are probably looking at the 1099, or a bigger ART Pro, but these will generally be faster/more glide due to the narrow foil section, but sacrifice carve and stability in choppy water.

that was what I'm getting at

eg art size equivalent for wind that you would use another model hps png for

do the numbers on the wing help? I know aspects alter the characteristcs

but does surface area comparison help

cheers

Hmm, still (very much) learning about foils, but have been at it for 3-4 year now... first windfoil, now wingfoiling.

I think that you really only can use surface area as an indicator for performance if you compare foils within the same line/design. I have gone through BSC, HPS, Art Pro, Spitfire and now on Art V2 foils. My experience is that span and width (chord) says a bit more (=aspect ratio), but not all. The actual profile, flex and outline of the foil has a lot of impact on performance, way more than area in my view. However, I would say that span is better than area. But, you kind of need to do a bit of research and understand what the foil you are interested in is designed to deliver and try to understand the whole picture. It is a bit like windsurfing boards, where people look at volume or width, but that is only one measurement of many and says (very) little about actual performance.

As an example, my I'd say that my Art V2 999 (1038 sqcm) gets me going just as early as the HPS 1050 (1502 sqcm) did, with quite a bit range in the Art V2.

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bolgo said..
say I got png 910, what is the art equivalent

They're not comparable. There is a huge speed difference between pump and glide and ART. I've gone to thinking of ranges as smal,l medium and large. Forget #'s all together, they don't mean anything anymore. You want to work a similar amount. Get the corresponding small/medium/large in the competing range. But remember the speed range difference. So if you're talking about pumping and connecting waves, you'll have to go A LOT faster on the ART's to keep the same energy output as you would on a super slow PNG.

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masse said..

As an example, my I'd say that my Art V2 999 (1038 sqcm) gets me going just as early as the HPS 1050 (1502 sqcm) did, with quite a bit range in the Art V2.

Masse, if I trade my HPS for the Art V2 999, which you say will get me up just as early and with more range, what would I be giving up? It's hard to imagine there are no tradeoffs. But maybe that's what new technology delivers. Thanks for ideas. I like my HPS 930 too and I'm thinking about downsizing. 82kg. Mostly flat water, gusting winds.

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marc5 said..

masse said..

As an example, my I'd say that my Art V2 999 (1038 sqcm) gets me going just as early as the HPS 1050 (1502 sqcm) did, with quite a bit range in the Art V2.

Masse, if I trade my HPS for the Art V2 999, which you say will get me up just as early and with more range, what would I be giving up? It's hard to imagine there are no tradeoffs. But maybe that's what new technology delivers. Thanks for ideas. I like my HPS 930 too and I'm thinking about downsizing. 82kg. Mostly flat water, gusting winds.

The HPS is easier, more stable and slightly more forgiving with a bit less effort to get going (in comparable sizes). Otherwise, I would actually claim that the ART V2 is better at _everything_ compared with an HPS foil. Better speed, turning, glide (much better) and efficiency. It is a surprisingly easy foil to use, despite the seemingly high-aspect design. It responds better to pumping, so even if it might require a bit better technique to get going one could argue that the improved efficiency more than makes up for this. I personally enjoy the ART V2s a lot (999 and 879) and think that they are really good for wingfoiling, which is what I use them for.

One issue, though, is that my personal technique has improved (I hope!) since I had the HPS foils (1050 and 930) so it is a bit tricky to do a proper comparison since it is from memory and not a true side-by-side experience. But, personally, I would choose ART V2 over HPS foils every day of the week in all conditions. The only area where I would recommend HPS over V2 is for beginners or early improvers, based on their characteristics and being less pointy.

edit: remembered one more area where smaller HPS most likely have an advantage - in smaller size I would expect them to be easier to jump, since the give more area to push against to get airborne.