I'm 70kg stepping down from riding a 89L Smik wing board.i have demo'd a 60L smik board and was fine on the volume. It's probably my lowest relatively comfortable volume. Not a fan of the smik build quality and "stickyness". I have been looking at a sunova 4'10 aviator wing board at 60L. My questions are:
What boards are people frothing on?
Is it worth going to 60L when the 70L would be a bit friendlier for chugging along in lighter wing?
Cheers

I'd say it's not only volume as a criteria - but the design of the board. You are only gonna find that out by trying some others. Yeh if chugging along is important to you how much is their to be gained from a 70L to a 60L. Especially if you say find a 70L with the same length as a 60L for example to reduce swing nose weight. For chugging along I'm not sure you want to go much past your own body weight. Maybe minus 5/10. A board that carries a lot of its volume even through its length will also help for stability.

Thanks for the advice Eppo. Regarding chugging along, its just a case of being able to sail back to shore, at least on my knees, in a lull or if the wind dies right off (like it did at Cott yesterday arvo - not a nice spot to have a long paddle in at the moment...)

I tried a 4'8 Axis Froth at 70L which I was very comfortable on. The only tricky thing was the nose tended to dip under water on pumping up to foil. Myself and a mate were thinking that 4'8 might be getting a bit short for anything that is around neutral buoyancy.

I tried the GoFoil NL130 for the first time yesterday and absolutely loved it by the way :)

I'm 75kg without gear. My main board is Appletree 4'9" 70L. It works in light wind but still rips when it's cranking. Amazing construction and quality. Made in Europe. A chiselled nose will help keep nose up on a shorter wing board like this.
My old board 4'8" 55L Skywing had noticeably more swing weight and didn't feel more sporty given its smaller overall size.

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Pat01 said..
Thanks for the advice Eppo. Regarding chugging along, its just a case of being able to sail back to shore, at least on my knees, in a lull or if the wind dies right off (like it did at Cott yesterday arvo - not a nice spot to have a long paddle in at the moment...)

I tried a 4'8 Axis Froth at 70L which I was very comfortable on. The only tricky thing was the nose tended to dip under water on pumping up to foil. Myself and a mate were thinking that 4'8 might be getting a bit short for anything that is around neutral buoyancy.

I tried the GoFoil NL130 for the first time yesterday and absolutely loved it by the way :)

Yeh I totally get what you mean. Also helps in say winter where the lack of thermals - on marginal days dogging it waiting for a gust can be very useful. Or indeed you can also afford to put up a smaller wing. I know the 75L armie FG is really stable, carries width through the body - might be an option.

I think you should keep your 89L board for light days (I mean intermittent 5 to 15 knots days) and get yourself a 70L for the consistent 15knot plus days.

I am 110kg and only riding a 95L. On the light days you work hard to get up, you struggle to maintain balance on your feet or knees when the wind drops towards 5 knots. Add in swell and the issue is magnified.

Nothing worse than straddling your board and holding up your wing trying to get back in cause the board is simply too small to stand and balance on in 5 knots (except doing the same paddling).

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bigtone667 said..
I think you should keep your 89L board for light days (I mean intermittent 5 to 15 knots days) and get yourself a 70L for the consistent 15knot plus days.

I am 110kg and only riding a 95L. On the light days you work hard to get up, you struggle to maintain balance on your feet or knees when the wind drops towards 5 knots. Add in swell and the issue is magnified.

Nothing worse than straddling your board and holding up your wing trying to get back in cause the board is simply too small to stand and balance on in 5 knots (except doing the same paddling).

I'd agree to this, you can toil away trying to make a small literage work in the light. But fml its an effort. The amount of times I've been pumping my wing to keep me from sinking, then have a gust big enough to lift off with me having sunk down or fallen off.... These are the moments that test your patience. Of course when you're up, if you never crash and don't touch down, this is when a small board rips in the light. But it's taken me 17.21 weekends (assuming I've been out every weekend) since I got my smaller board to be comfortable doing this. This is also seen me chop and change my setup often and regularly.


If you can commit, make the jump, if you don't want to see your mates flying and you're stuck there. Get a two board quiver.

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foilthegreats said..
I'm 75kg without gear. My main board is Appletree 4'9" 70L. It works in light wind but still rips when it's cranking. Amazing construction and quality. Made in Europe. A chiselled nose will help keep nose up on a shorter wing board like this.
My old board 4'8" 55L Skywing had noticeably more swing weight and didn't feel more sporty given its smaller overall size.

Sorry for capturing the thread, but have been eyeing that board for a while now. Currently ride a 5'4" F-One and wondering what I could win by switching. The 5'4 F-One is 2cm wider and 5L (at 75L) more, but still well under my 95Kgs. Weight is similar, but the F-One is slightly lighter. Have you per chance tried the F-One board aswell??

How's the box position relative to the straps / board length? I see you ride Armstrong foils, which if I understand correctly have to be ridden pretty far forward in the tracks? I'm riding F-One Phantom and have the straps all the way back and foil 1cm from the front in the boxes of my board currently.

The reason I'm eying a new board is that I have the problem that with my current setting the board is perfectly setup for waveriding and can foilpump almost indefinately (until my endurance gives out), but during riding I'd like a little more front foot pressure. My mates 5'0 F-One feels much better in that regard, so I'm thinking the swing weight might be the baddy here, but 60L is too small for an allround board for my weight (I'd use it in 12-35 knots with a 5.0 wing). As an alternative I'm considering ordering an appletree custom with 75-80L and 4'10-4'11.

Something I'm also unsure about is how the thickness affects the riding sensation. I think one of the reasons my 5'4 feels smaller than it is is because its relatively thin and narrow for its size.

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WhiteofHeart said..

foilthegreats said..
I'm 75kg without gear. My main board is Appletree 4'9" 70L. It works in light wind but still rips when it's cranking. Amazing construction and quality. Made in Europe. A chiselled nose will help keep nose up on a shorter wing board like this.
My old board 4'8" 55L Skywing had noticeably more swing weight and didn't feel more sporty given its smaller overall size.

Sorry for capturing the thread, but have been eyeing that board for a while now. Currently ride a 5'4" F-One and wondering what I could win by switching. The 5'4 F-One is 2cm wider and 5L more, but still well under my 95Kgs. Have you per chance tried the F-One board aswell?? How's the box position relative to the straps / board length? I see you ride Armstrong foils, which if I understand correctly have to be ridden pretty far forward in the tracks? I'm riding F-One Phantom and have the straps all the way back and foil 1cm from the front in the boxes of my board currently. The reason I'm eying a new board is that I like the deck of my board to feel a little angled upward (front foot higher than the back foot), and the deck of the F-One is perfectly flat. Having the deck being a little higher under the frontfoot makes the ride feel more front foot powered, while during foilpumping and waveriding the balance between the feet remains the same. I have the problem that with my current setting the board is perfectly setup for waveriding and can foilpump almost indefinately (until my endurance gives out), but during riding I'd like a little more front foot pressure.

I've got this board in the 5'2" / 90 litre version, haven't tried the FOne boards. It doesn't feel like the Appletree front foot is higher than the back (at least the way I have it set up). Im riding it with a Lift High aspect foil and my mast is positioned about 1/3 from the front of the tracks or 2/3 from the rear. My front strap is in the front holes and while I don't usually ride with a rear strap - when I do its on the front holes.

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Velocicraptor said..

WhiteofHeart said..

foilthegreats said..
I'm 75kg without gear. My main board is Appletree 4'9" 70L. It works in light wind but still rips when it's cranking. Amazing construction and quality. Made in Europe. A chiselled nose will help keep nose up on a shorter wing board like this.
My old board 4'8" 55L Skywing had noticeably more swing weight and didn't feel more sporty given its smaller overall size.

Sorry for capturing the thread, but have been eyeing that board for a while now. Currently ride a 5'4" F-One and wondering what I could win by switching. The 5'4 F-One is 2cm wider and 5L more, but still well under my 95Kgs. Have you per chance tried the F-One board aswell?? How's the box position relative to the straps / board length? I see you ride Armstrong foils, which if I understand correctly have to be ridden pretty far forward in the tracks? I'm riding F-One Phantom and have the straps all the way back and foil 1cm from the front in the boxes of my board currently. The reason I'm eying a new board is that I like the deck of my board to feel a little angled upward (front foot higher than the back foot), and the deck of the F-One is perfectly flat. Having the deck being a little higher under the frontfoot makes the ride feel more front foot powered, while during foilpumping and waveriding the balance between the feet remains the same. I have the problem that with my current setting the board is perfectly setup for waveriding and can foilpump almost indefinately (until my endurance gives out), but during riding I'd like a little more front foot pressure.

I've got this board in the 5'2" / 90 litre version, haven't tried the FOne boards. It doesn't feel like the Appletree front foot is higher than the back (at least the way I have it set up). Im riding it with a Lift High aspect foil and my mast is positioned about 1/3 from the front of the tracks or 2/3 from the rear. My front strap is in the front holes and while I don't usually ride with a rear strap - when I do its on the front holes.

Thanks for the reply! I was not really done writing my comment, always do that in parts, allowing my mind some time to wrap itself around what I'm feeling on the water.

Sounds like the box positions would be in the right spot for me though.

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WhiteofHeart said..

foilthegreats said..
I'm 75kg without gear. My main board is Appletree 4'9" 70L. It works in light wind but still rips when it's cranking. Amazing construction and quality. Made in Europe. A chiselled nose will help keep nose up on a shorter wing board like this.
My old board 4'8" 55L Skywing had noticeably more swing weight and didn't feel more sporty given its smaller overall size.

Sorry for capturing the thread, but have been eyeing that board for a while now. Currently ride a 5'4" F-One and wondering what I could win by switching. The 5'4 F-One is 2cm wider and 5L (at 75L) more, but still well under my 95Kgs. Weight is similar, but the F-One is slightly lighter. Have you per chance tried the F-One board aswell?? How's the box position relative to the straps / board length? I see you ride Armstrong foils, which if I understand correctly have to be ridden pretty far forward in the tracks? I'm riding F-One Phantom and have the straps all the way back and foil 1cm from the front in the boxes of my board currently. The reason I'm eying a new board is that I have the problem that with my current setting the board is perfectly setup for waveriding and can foilpump almost indefinately (until my endurance gives out), but during riding I'd like a little more front foot pressure. My mates 5'0 F-One feels much better in that regard, so I'm thinking the swing weight might be the baddy here, but 60L is too small for an allround board for my weight (I'd use it in 12-35 knots with a 5.0 wing). Considering ordering an appletree custom with 75-80L aswell.

I have not tried F-One.

I have the Armstrong all the way forward in the boxes. Front strap all the way back and rear strap all the way forward.

Maybe you should try experimenting with current setup to shim the tail for more front foot pressure to see if you can get the feeling you'd like.

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foilthegreats said..

WhiteofHeart said..

foilthegreats said..
I'm 75kg without gear. My main board is Appletree 4'9" 70L. It works in light wind but still rips when it's cranking. Amazing construction and quality. Made in Europe. A chiselled nose will help keep nose up on a shorter wing board like this.
My old board 4'8" 55L Skywing had noticeably more swing weight and didn't feel more sporty given its smaller overall size.

Sorry for capturing the thread, but have been eyeing that board for a while now. Currently ride a 5'4" F-One and wondering what I could win by switching. The 5'4 F-One is 2cm wider and 5L (at 75L) more, but still well under my 95Kgs. Weight is similar, but the F-One is slightly lighter. Have you per chance tried the F-One board aswell?? How's the box position relative to the straps / board length? I see you ride Armstrong foils, which if I understand correctly have to be ridden pretty far forward in the tracks? I'm riding F-One Phantom and have the straps all the way back and foil 1cm from the front in the boxes of my board currently. The reason I'm eying a new board is that I have the problem that with my current setting the board is perfectly setup for waveriding and can foilpump almost indefinately (until my endurance gives out), but during riding I'd like a little more front foot pressure. My mates 5'0 F-One feels much better in that regard, so I'm thinking the swing weight might be the baddy here, but 60L is too small for an allround board for my weight (I'd use it in 12-35 knots with a 5.0 wing). Considering ordering an appletree custom with 75-80L aswell.

I have not tried F-One.

I have the Armstrong all the way forward in the boxes. Front strap all the way back and rear strap all the way forward.

Maybe you should try experimenting with current setup to shim the tail for more front foot pressure to see if you can get the feeling you'd like.

I've tried shimming the stab and moving the foil even further forward, but doing that results in the foil becoming "too powerful" to pump efficiently off swells or even flatwater dockstarting. Feeling while riding does improve when I do though. The thing is I want both to feel right with the same setup ;). Will try shimming the plate to angle the entire board up a little next time, but am thinking maybe losing a bit of nose might be a better solution to get the feel I'm looking for.

To stay on topic btw, my favorite board size is 75L / 5'4 F-One RocketWing at the moment. I have tried the 5'10 / 110L, 5'5 / 85L, 5'0 / 60L and 4'8 / 44L F-One boards aswell. For my 95Kgs the 75L is just enough to get me going in our average gusty conditions, and I dont go out under 10 knots anyway. If its 10 knots here there's often 13-14 knot gusts anyway, so getting up is fine. Add to that I pretty much foil 100% of my jibes and 99% of my tacks means I dont really fall unless practicing aerials / tricks. I've found the 60L to be too small for me, with -35L really missing out on the bottom-end, the difference between the 110L and the 75L is marginal for my spot, as its often gusty enough to get going with either. You'd think the 5'5 would be the better size, but I've found -20L easier to kneestart than -10L, and the 5'5 feels a lot bigger in the air because of its massive increase in width. Having 4-5 years of windfoiling experience under my belt I have the experience to know when its time to foil back to shore, so never had to swing back yet. I cannot slog my 75L board, nor could I slog the 85L if the wind really dies and the wing no longer keeps flying.

Below 10 knots means going to big / slow foils for me, which just dont entertain me anymore.

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WhiteofHeart said..

foilthegreats said..

WhiteofHeart said..

foilthegreats said..
I'm 75kg without gear. My main board is Appletree 4'9" 70L. It works in light wind but still rips when it's cranking. Amazing construction and quality. Made in Europe. A chiselled nose will help keep nose up on a shorter wing board like this.
My old board 4'8" 55L Skywing had noticeably more swing weight and didn't feel more sporty given its smaller overall size.

Sorry for capturing the thread, but have been eyeing that board for a while now. Currently ride a 5'4" F-One and wondering what I could win by switching. The 5'4 F-One is 2cm wider and 5L (at 75L) more, but still well under my 95Kgs. Weight is similar, but the F-One is slightly lighter. Have you per chance tried the F-One board aswell?? How's the box position relative to the straps / board length? I see you ride Armstrong foils, which if I understand correctly have to be ridden pretty far forward in the tracks? I'm riding F-One Phantom and have the straps all the way back and foil 1cm from the front in the boxes of my board currently. The reason I'm eying a new board is that I have the problem that with my current setting the board is perfectly setup for waveriding and can foilpump almost indefinately (until my endurance gives out), but during riding I'd like a little more front foot pressure. My mates 5'0 F-One feels much better in that regard, so I'm thinking the swing weight might be the baddy here, but 60L is too small for an allround board for my weight (I'd use it in 12-35 knots with a 5.0 wing). Considering ordering an appletree custom with 75-80L aswell.

I have not tried F-One.

I have the Armstrong all the way forward in the boxes. Front strap all the way back and rear strap all the way forward.

Maybe you should try experimenting with current setup to shim the tail for more front foot pressure to see if you can get the feeling you'd like.

I've tried shimming the stab and moving the foil even further forward, but doing that results in the foil becoming "too powerful" to pump efficiently off swells or even flatwater dockstarting. Feeling while riding does improve when I do though. The thing is I want both to feel right with the same setup ;). Will try shimming the plate to angle the entire board up a little next time, but am thinking maybe losing a bit of nose might be a better solution to get the feel I'm looking for.

To stay on topic btw, my favorite board size is 75L / 5'4 F-One RocketWing at the moment. I have tried the 5'10 / 110L, 5'5 / 85L, 5'0 / 60L and 4'8 / 44L F-One boards aswell. For my 95Kgs the 75L is just enough to get me going in our average gusty conditions, and I dont go out under 10 knots anyway. If its 10 knots here there's often 13-14 knot gusts anyway, so getting up is fine. Add to that I pretty much foil 100% of my jibes and 99% of my tacks means I dont really fall unless practicing aerials / tricks. I've found the 60L to be too small for me, with -35L really missing out on the bottom-end, the difference between the 110L and the 75L is marginal for my spot, as its often gusty enough to get going with either. You'd think the 5'5 would be the better size, but I've found -20L easier to kneestart than -10L, and the 5'5 feels a lot bigger in the air because of its massive increase in width. Having 4-5 years of windfoiling experience under my belt I have the experience to know when its time to foil back to shore, so never had to swing back yet. I cannot slog my 75L board, nor could I slog the 85L if the wind really dies and the wing no longer keeps flying.

Below 10 knots means going to big / slow foils for me, which just dont entertain me anymore.

I wouldn't expect the same settings to work from what feels good when using the wing to translate into the same performance when dock starting or prone foiling in my experience. For example when I use my prone board on the wing I'll set at 5 or 6 setting on the tracks but if prone foiling it would be at 2 or 3.

@Whiteofheart
I was able to test the Appletree Appleslice Wingboard with 50 litres at a local lake (Westeinderplassen) and tried to pronesurf it the next day :-).
The owner of Appletree told me a couple of boards were available for testing, but on a sort of tour through Germany, Denmark and the Netherlands. At that time the 70 litre was being tested in Germany (gleiten.tv).
Don't know where you live, but you could just drop 'm a mail to see if anything is going on in your area.

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FlyingPeew said..
@Whiteofheart
I was able to test the Appletree Appleslice Wingboard with 50 litres at a local lake (Westeinderplassen) and tried to pronesurf it the next day :-).
The owner of Appletree told me a couple of boards were available for testing, but on a sort of tour through Germany, Denmark and the Netherlands. At that time the 70 litre was being tested in Germany (gleiten.tv).
Don't know where you live, but you could just drop 'm a mail to see if anything is going on in your area.

Westeinderplassen is one of my main spots, so I'll see what can be arranged! Thanks!

@foilthegreats Hmm, not what I was hoping for, but is to be expected ofcourse. Seeking the answer in new gear is always a fun way to get rid of ones savings right?