I've been riding an 85l Carver (I'm 86kg) and been absolutely in love with it this year. I'm wondering if anyone has experience with dropping volume but not having to size up foils or wings on midlengths yet? Is -10, -20, -30l the cutoff before you start to pay for dropping too many liters?

70% of body weight.

Bryan,

I ride a 65l Amos sultan and am 80kg, my 90l f one midlength is easier but the sultan is more dynamic to ride.

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Mikedubs said..
Bryan,

I ride a 65l Amos sultan and am 80kg, my 90l f one midlength is easier but the sultan is more dynamic to ride.

Do you feel like you need to change your wing/foil size significantly between the two? Or not too bad? I've heard the Sultan is awesome!

Not really, as long as there's a bit of pressure in the wing, it comes up quick.
I use the 90l on a lake, in gusty/patchy wind or strong downwind current, but as soon as I know its good enough I'm on the Sultan.
If i was younger I'd always be on it, on a big foil it would come up quick too in patchy conditions, but I'm 60 and sometimes I just can't be bothered to work too hard.

My KT Wingdrifter5.4x22x56l of 2 old is long for its volume and it gets as quick going as the shorther but wider 85l Duotone boards with the same wing and foilsize (I,m 97kg without wettie). I don,t need to size up my wing, but I need a little gust to stand up and get going quickly instead of sloggin around like I can do on my 90/92l boards. Once up it rides great, light and nimble
Now with my SuperK I hardly grab the Wingdrifter. The WD feels smaller, but unless its howling I,m not sure if the rewards are worth the extra hard work to get up.
With the SuperK I have the feel I can get away with a wingsize smaller as with trad shorther/wider boards.

I enjoy winging, parawinging, and proning my 5'5" x 18" 55L at 68kgs (80% of my weight). I could probably go a bit lower in volume, but I wouldn't want to go shorter. It provides some security in exposed spots and also allows me to keep my wing size down compared to my traditional 44L wing board.

I'm 85kg and my main board is the Skybrid 5'6" x 21.25" @ 70l. I also use an AFS Blackbird 6'2" x 21.5" @ 90l.

I used to use the Blackbird more when my smaller board was a Sky Style 65l but I find the Skybrid has so much better efficiency. I use my 3.5 Unit D/LAB pretty much all the time. I have about 20X amount of time on the 3.5 compared to my 4.5. Most used foil is the Silk 850 but also some time on Pure 700 and Aero Glide 725

i take the bigger board if there is a lot of slog
potential. Sometimes at my local spot, and especially toward the end of the season, the wind line is far out and there can be sudden die offs in the wind. Slogging a neutral volume board is much easier. In really light wind I am up to my knees on 70l.

takeoff is a little easier on the 90 but as long as there are gusts I feel pretty confident the 70 will get me going. I ride the same foils and wing on both boards.

Alright trigger pulled! Going with a custom Sunova Pilot. 5'9"x20"x4.5" 65l. That puts it at -21l plus winter gear. I don't have a lead time on it yet but it will be a mid winter arrival for sure.

Cool I reckon that will end up as your only board unless you go smaller still. in this vid I'm on the 5'1 x 20 50L in 15 knts onshore with 5.5 and 25 sideshore with 3m
?si=tLydg9XiFVnAYiQQ

I am 103kg and ride the stock Sunova carver 5'10x20"x85L. At these dimensions it is basically a one board quiver. I am also sup foiling and have 2 foil sups that are longer and much wider. I used to use them a lot more in light wind when I had my 5ft square wingboard as i needed the length of the sup to get going. Now I don't usually use them for winging as I find the carver gets going easier than the bigger and much wider boards.
The only time I really feel like I need to be on a floater is at the absolute bottom end when there's barely enough wind to hold the wing up. I have been out and had the wind drop off to the point I couldn't slog on my knees and it was so light I don't think I would have been able to slog on my knees even on a floater. I think the only option that would really beat a good midlength for lightwind would be a proper downwind board.
I feel like I could easily get away with a bit less volume, say around 65L and it would only effect the absolute low end when I can barely slog or knee sail. For normal conditions as long as there is some length and narrow width i think the volume is less important. I am not keen to drop any volume though as I do want to have the ability to knee slog when necessary.
Since switching to the carver from the square wide wingboard I have definitely been able to size down my wings. Each wing has essentially moved up a size. I have a 2.8m ppc surge that I have had some really great sessions on when I wouldn't have been using it otherwise. I haven't downsized my foils as much as I am mostly matching my foils to the bump/wave size and will often choose a bigger foil to maximise glide/bump riding ability.

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leepasty said..
Cool I reckon that will end up as your only board unless you go smaller still. in this vid I'm on the 5'1 x 20 50L in 15 knts onshore with 5.5 and 25 sideshore with 3m

?si=tLydg9XiFVnAYiQQ

I remember when you were questioning and disbelieving in narrow boards, till ur sponsor made some. ??

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Mikedubs said..

leepasty said..
Cool I reckon that will end up as your only board unless you go smaller still. in this vid I'm on the 5'1 x 20 50L in 15 knts onshore with 5.5 and 25 sideshore with 3m

?si=tLydg9XiFVnAYiQQ

I remember when you were questioning and disbelieving in narrow boards, till ur sponsor made some. ??

No was never disbelieving was asking advice (which I never really got as no one winging low volume longer boards and still not seen many people going 40L below weight on 5' or longer boards)


Anyway I went with my own idea and got the 50L custom made in January.
wondering now if can go less volume as the 5'1 x 20 50L gets going so easy. might stick same dims just go bit thinner as 20 wide seems good, wouldn't want to go 17 or 18 and be thicker like some 45L mid lengths

Hey Lee, nice clip. So I wing on a Naish Hover 4'10 22" 60L and have done for 18 months as a one board quiver for my 76 to 80kg. Just got a narrower prone board (use with FD 4'8 18" 40L) which I love. I'm thinking narrower could be the way forward. Do you get up with less litres winging with a narrower longer board? Do you think I'd loose, gain or be about the same in terms of take off with these boards I could get - 5 x 20 x 50L or 5'3 20 50L or 5'8 20 52L. I don't chase very light wind but it's Uk gusty conditions. Like the idea of tight turns and thinner board.

I also have been using the Duotone Skybird. I'm 90 kg, and use the 5'8"x22 85L for winging and also Foil Drive. Really impressed with the board. Depite it being a sinker, it get's off the water realitively quick. I still use a 6'6"x25 115 L Sunova DW for winging on lite days (<10 knots), and wave SUP foil. The Skybird is definitely a nice board to have for windier days. With the FD+, it takes more energy to get it off the water than the SUNOVA, but it is still doable and more fun in carving. For learning prone foiling, I could see how midlengths could be useful based on how fast they paddle.

@pasquales I have the skybrid 85 as my lightwind board. I am 90 kg and it's a floater I use it up to 15 knots or if the wind is really light on inside and big waves making getting out tricky.
a sinker for me is a board that sinks past your waist when no wind.


@ianinca I think all of those board would get going quicker than your Naish. the size depends on your main style.

I'd say the 5'8 is a bit long for a small board, the 5'3 be better getting going in chop and will be bit thinner.
what brand you looking at?
im also tempted to get the Skybrid 5'4 55L as a travel board as my custom is really light but also fragile and when I travel I take kite & surf kit as well so only 1 wing board

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leepasty said..
@pasquales I have the skybrid 85 as my lightwind board. I am 90 kg and it's a floater I use it up to 15 knots or if the wind is really light on inside and big waves making getting out tricky.
a sinker for me is a board that sinks past your waist when no wind.


@ianinca I think all of those board would get going quicker than your Naish. the size depends on your main style.

I'd say the 5'8 is a bit long for a small board, the 5'3 be better getting going in chop and will be bit thinner.
what brand you looking at?
im also tempted to get the Skybrid 5'4 55L as a travel board as my custom is really light but also fragile and when I travel I take kite & surf kit as well so only 1 wing board

Looking at Gong boards as their prone ranges seem to fit the low volume slightly longer thinner profile well and very cheap. Just worried that 10L less will mean I lose on low end over my 60L. If you reckon the narrow profile will make up for it then it maybe worth a purchase. I do know that narrower boards feel great on foil particularly in waves and negotiating chop.

Sure. Using a 5'9 x 19.5, 60 L, that's a bit more than -10 L for me. Can get away with either 750 cm2 or 630 cm2 front wing, and 3.0 or 2.5 m2 wing. Would not make sense to go for a less volume than that in our wave spots on most days, as there is often no reliable wind close to the shore where you would end the wave rides.

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Taavi said..
Sure. Using a 5'9 x 19.5, 60 L, that's a bit more than -10 L for me. Can get away with either 750 cm2 or 630 cm2 front wing, and 3.0 or 2.5 m2 wing. Would not make sense to go for a less volume than that in our wave spots on most days, as there is often no reliable wind close to the shore where you would end the wave rides.

I was responding to Lee. My current traditional wing board 4'10 22" 60L @ -17L but thinking about 5'3 20" 50L @ -27. I was hoping/wondering if I could get going in the same low end due to the narrow long profile.

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IanInca said..

Taavi said..
Sure. Using a 5'9 x 19.5, 60 L, that's a bit more than -10 L for me. Can get away with either 750 cm2 or 630 cm2 front wing, and 3.0 or 2.5 m2 wing. Would not make sense to go for a less volume than that in our wave spots on most days, as there is often no reliable wind close to the shore where you would end the wave rides.

I was responding to Lee. My current traditional wing board 4'10 22" 60L @ -17L but thinking about 5'3 20" 50L @ -27. I was hoping/wondering if I could get going in the same low end due to the narrow long profile.

Yes I think you can as that's what I found. my 5'1 x 20 50L sinks in no wind to past my waist but soon as wind in wing it comes to surface and 3 pumps in a gust I'm foiling. my previous 4'9 x 22.75 65L would sink to my knees and be really wobbly. Would come to surface but lot of time not take off before the gust had gone as would stick to water. being sunk more I find easier to balance than just sunk to knees . I'm not sure if the gong prones have inserts and how strong they are if you want to jump? I find at least front strap helps a lot when you are sinking

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IanInca said..

Taavi said..
Sure. Using a 5'9 x 19.5, 60 L, that's a bit more than -10 L for me. Can get away with either 750 cm2 or 630 cm2 front wing, and 3.0 or 2.5 m2 wing. Would not make sense to go for a less volume than that in our wave spots on most days, as there is often no reliable wind close to the shore where you would end the wave rides.

I was responding to Lee. My current traditional wing board 4'10 22" 60L @ -17L but thinking about 5'3 20" 50L @ -27. I was hoping/wondering if I could get going in the same low end due to the narrow long profile.

I was just responding to BWalnut's "Anyone have experience yet?" question. The question of if it's possible to go -10, -20, etc. litres below is just the matter of wind strength and the size of the foil and wing you are willing to use. If there is plenty of wind in your spots for doing that, go smaller. And if not then don't.

Longer and narrower shapes definitely get going easier, but when choosing a board I wouldn't decide merely based on the dimensions. At the end it's the complete package (foil, board, you, the conditions) that decides if a board feels good and matches the riding style you are after.

Well I'm not really asking if it's possible. I know it's possible. I'm really looking at how much is sacrificed.

Example:
I'm 86kg.

I took a 60l 5'2"x21" Omen out in 30 knots with a powerful 2.5mAA and a Silk 1050 and didn't have any issues with water starts on my session.

I then switched to my 85l 5'10"x20" Carver in the same wind but rigged a 2m Strike v3 (no low end) and the Ultra 750 and I again, didn't have issues on my session.

So, I decided to order a 65l 5'9"x20" Pilot. The difference for the 60l Omen vs the 85l Carver was about full meter of sail and 300cm squared for the foil. With more time and experience I expect I could close that gap but I still preferred the feel of the Carver in flight. Those two boards are the same weight, but the narrower profile of the Carver caught edges less for me. The Pilot will be lighter than both of the above boards and 1/2" thinner than the Carver so, I'm thinking it will be a slayer for me.

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leepasty said..
@pasquales I have the skybrid 85 as my lightwind board. I am 90 kg and it's a floater I use it up to 15 knots or if the wind is really light on inside and big waves making getting out tricky.
a sinker for me is a board that sinks past your waist.

Today was first session winging in salt water with some wave energy. It was fine getting started in 12 knots. The 85L size board without the FD+ sinks maybe knee deep. When the wind dropped to 10 knots, I switched to a big pump foil and still could get up relatively quick in the lite air. It's possible this could be my lite wind board as well. With the FD+, however it can be a bit hard to get off the water in 1-2 ft surf. Using a DW SUP, it's trivial in any condition. With the Skybird, I need almost breaking waves. But that's a minor issue.