In my quest to break my foil speed barrier, just like to know is it common or rare to exceed the wind speed
with your foil speed.
ie. Can we sail faster than the wind speed easily or hard ?
I noticed that the Sailgp boat easily exceeds the prevailing wind speed by a mile.

I commonly exceed the wind speed when its in the mid teens. Hitting high teens speed with 15 knots wind is pretty easy. I always struggle to get above 20 knots speed though regardless of wind speed. I definitely don't optimize my setup for speed at all though.

I agree.

I can surpass the windspeed if I am using a 4m or larger sail but have only hit 20 knots one time. I'm never faster on my smaller sails and now that my largest sail is a 3m I never get even close to 20 knots. These speeds are going to be limited by water conditions too.

I've had a bit of a side-quest for speed and for sure it's possible to exceed windspeed by 1.3-1.5x or so on normal gear.
I think my best is around 22 knots on a 5.5 and 500cm foil in about 15 knots of wind.
A couple of days ago I was testing a new 950 DW foil on a 4.5 and got a 22kt 100m run, not bad for a foil with a 104cm span. My PB speed is 25 knots over 500m and 26 over 100m on a 4.5 and 575 foil, top 2 sec speed 28 knots but take that with a grain of salt... A stiff wing (allula or dyneema airframe) makes a big difference and I'm sure a double skin racing wing would be even better.

Flat water and steady wind make it a lot easier to push for speed

Yes exceeding wind speed is the norm for the intermediate and above riders at my local. We often chat about speed, the race crew are hitting low 30'sregularly, myself as a dad bod cod hit 25knts regularly (700-900 sized foils) and not geared for pure racing.

I agree with the above, push for speeds when you have flat water and a well powered up wing. Some foils love speed, some are a sketchier and it feels like you're pushing them.. many riders don't use a leash when speed riding as sometimes when you come off stuff goes everywhere..

I've been on a speed chasing mission a bit myself. I can consistently hit 21-23 knots in 10-15 knots of wind. For the record, I have fast gear, Mikeslab and a variety of wings designed to go fast. All this said, I've capped out around 25 knots for max speed. Where I wing most often, the water gets too rough when the wind is blowing hard enough to get past the 25 knot mark for me to be able to push things harder.

I would strongly suggest watching some of this guys videos ?si=Ax_ieYZNgOvT52Pt

He's covering most of what aligns with my experience. I will say, the PPC M1R definitely goes faster than most other wings by 1-3 knots. It's also so stable at the top end that I can cruise at higher speeds as well.

No matter what the gear, my experience is that there is definitely a skill factor that starts to come into play to get past 24 knots then again at 25. I haven't figured out the + 25 thing yet, but I'm guessing it also involves going to a very flat spot with solid wind.

Thankyou for sharing your experience. You've just confirmed my suspicion that fast gear is a prerequisite
for exceeding the wind speed. I think I have reached my financial and psychological barrier for going fast
now. As a decades old windsurfer, I always like to match the windsurfer's speed.. but now I will just
accept the background science involved.

I race a bit and was 4th this year in Weymouth speedweek (UK) at an average of 26.4knots over 500m (27+ knot peak) in 12-17knots wind and chop*.
My takeaway is that many foils and wings will do a 24-25knots burst. Especially under 1000 sq cm. However pushing beyond 26knots is much more specialised and you really need a very stiff wing and a very small foil (preferably designed for speed).

I regularly do 23 / 24knots on my AFS Silk foils, but they won't go much faster than 25knots. Whereas my small Mikeslab foils will be very happy at 28/29knots. There is a big difference!

*I was on a PPC M1 6.5m wing and Mikeslab 525 foil and 80L Flygroove board

We have a local speedster who regularly does 30+kts 2sec and recently a 29.9kt 5x10sec, all confirmed with accurate GPS data (which is publicly available for scrutiny) and not just a 'phone in a plastic bag down the front of my wetsuit'. He is on a readily commercially available foil (550) but his secret appears to be strong wind, super-flat water and his 100+kg frame. and his determination to go fast.

I regularly hit 21 - 23 kts in less wind. PB is high 24, however try as I might I can't seem to crack 25kts, it's a brick wall . My gear's good enough to do it, I'm the limitation

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Stretchy said..
I regularly hit 21 - 23 kts in less wind. PB is high 24, however try as I might I can't seem to crack 25kts, it's a brick wall . My gear's good enough to do it, I'm the limitation

Pretty much like you. Regularly 23kts. And a 24.98kts 2sec. Still chasing that 25.

agree with r0d on this... he's fast and also rides recreational gear in addition to just going fast gear. I just ride recreational foils and can get them into that 25kt range occasionally with the right conditions. that said, there are plenty of guys on fast foils that are slow... technique matters a lot. If you want to to fast, eventually you'll need the technique and the gear.

Topped out this year on my Duotone Glide 2.0 620 w/ 10sec 26.7kt.... any longer than that and it goes way downhill! Normal every day foil is the AFS Silk 850 and I tend to top out around 23/24kt

using Waterspeed on Apple Watch (fairly recent) who knows if the above numbers are accurate or not.

20-22kt 2 second speeds seem pretty easy on the Balz909 which is far from a fast foil. I've done a 19kt 500m many times as well.
This is with bagged out surf wings in choppy conditions.

So I'd say unless you're hitting 20kts at least it's not the foil.

Seems like we're all having a similar experience with the 25 knot cap. When I read about people going that fast or faster in "choppy conditions" my bet is that we have different definition of "choppy." I know before I moved to Hawaii, I had a a very different experience around what I would call choppy, that I might now call flat... lol.

Check out KA72. The speedster I spoke about above just pulled a 26kt+ NM yesterday on an 800 commercially available foil. That's fast

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sunsetsailboards said..
agree with r0d on this... he's fast and also rides recreational gear in addition to just going fast gear. I just ride recreational foils and can get them into that 25kt range occasionally with the right conditions. that said, there are plenty of guys on fast foils that are slow... technique matters a lot. If you want to to fast, eventually you'll need the technique and the gear.

Topped out this year on my Duotone Glide 2.0 620 w/ 10sec 26.7kt.... any longer than that and it goes way downhill! Normal every day foil is the AFS Silk 850 and I tend to top out around 23/24kt

using Waterspeed on Apple Watch (fairly recent) who knows if the above numbers are accurate or not.

On the watch .. I regularly Windsurf with Apple Ultra watch and Mini Motion. The older watches were unreliable, but I find the Ultra is usually within 0.5kts and more likely within 0.2kts