Newbie getting my first sustained rides on foil with a 97L, 5'3" board (I'm 63Kg) ...and as I get comfortable with that, and spend time thinking about new gear and the next board/foil/wing...it seems when most people talk about outgrowing their first big board, they talk about the swing weight of a big board, or that its bulky for carving or riding waves...but in my short time foiling, the main thing I notice is the windage. If I turn up wind it immediately rides higher and wants more nose pressure. And that is in really modest winds.

I'm looking forward to the next, smaller board just for less windage...

Anyone else?

Comments/insights? I thought this would be discussed more, but I'm not seeing much..

I have ridden 85-95L 5'1" boards for the last couple years in 8-35mph winds. I have never once noticed windage. I have experienced it though windfoiling with an 8'2" board board in 30+mph winds and even that wasn't bad, it would blow the nose of the board sligntly downwind. If you are turning upwind it sounds like you may be building speed through apparent wind and with that speed comes more lift from the foil.

I started with a 135 litre, 6-inch thick inflatable Naish 5'7". It was a big chubby boy.
I changed to a 90 litre 5'4" KT Wing Drifter and the difference in windage was stark. It actually felt more slippery through the air.

At 63kgs you're going to end up on a board around 60lts, that's an everyday board you can ride in all conditions. If your skills develop to jumping you will move to a full sinker. But you're not going to be able to get there yet, look at a jump to around 80lts first, get your gybes to 100% then get your forever board. Don't go too short, short and stubby are a nightmare to get going in lighter wind.

Only the bigger wing boards suffer from windage, especially in stronger winds when the wind can flip the board onto your wing.

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SpokeyDoke said..

I'm looking forward to the next, smaller board just for less windage...

Anyone else?

Comments/insights? I thought this would be discussed more, but I'm not seeing much..

Yeah windage can be an issue. Going upwind, with substantial lean, the aero drag is substantial and in gusty conditions you can easily feel the board windage with foil pitch instability. Beam reaching it still happens but downwind the apparent wind speed is too light and board rides flatter. We only have to carry the board on land in strong winds to grasp the significance of the wind force on a tilted board.

BUT, the gusts should always drive the nose down, due to the heel angle of the board and apparent wind coming in from the side/top and hitting the deck. Unless your board-mast angle has the nose way up. But that's unlikely.

If you have to push the front foot down harder only when going upwind, then something else might be happening.

Any free-play in any of your foil bolt joins?

Are your front and rear foils kinda matched in size? If your rear foil is not sized or angle setup to pull a big front foil out of a dive, then you might have the mast abnormally far forward in board tracks.

Is it the same on both tacks? I'm wondering if you have excessive yaw which is generating too much lift off your mast with high lean angles.

Another possibility is that your sail is so inefficient at generating forward drive going upwind that you have much of your body weight hanging off the sail and not much weight pushing through your feet. When you have an upwind efficient sail (plus properly functioning foils) you could/should notice consistent front-rear feet weighting going upwind to downwind. Wing-sails differ heaps in upwind perf and you might have a "super-dog"! LOL! Any idea what is your typical upwind speed range and true wind angle?

I have felt nose windage when going upwind, but it should be a nose down/leeward force as written above.

I would check setup and technique before going to a smaller board.

I'm 195 lbs (88kg), riding 5'3", 95 liters Fanatic Sky Free. Very comfortable on flat water and waves, no problem in high wind ( up to 30 mph gusting 40 mph) with 3m wing. Upwind, downwind no problem.
I don't think I can gain much by going to smaller board, same time smaller board may create problems - complicating start, loosing ability come back without swimming if wind drops ...
BTW: a lot of people praising downwind boards for ability to get up really fast and easy - we are talking here about 7 - 8 foot long boards! Where is the windage?

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motogon said..
I'm 195 lbs (88kg), riding 5'3", 95 liters Fanatic Sky Free. Very comfortable on flat water and waves, no problem in high wind ( up to 30 mph gusting 40 mph) with 3m wing. Upwind, downwind no problem.
I don't think I can gain much by going to smaller board, same time smaller board may create problems - complicating start, loosing ability come back without swimming if wind drops ...
BTW: a lot of people praising downwind boards for ability to get up really fast and easy - we are talking here about 7 - 8 foot long boards! Where is the windage?

DW boards have a pointy nose,very little width and chunky thickness...makes a very inneficient foil shape to create down&leeward lift.
Compare that to a square nosed, thin, curved bottom&flattop typical wingboard.
The cross section that the apparent wind flows up&under is a very nice wing shape.

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mcrt said..

motogon said..
I'm 195 lbs (88kg), riding 5'3", 95 liters Fanatic Sky Free. Very comfortable on flat water and waves, no problem in high wind ( up to 30 mph gusting 40 mph) with 3m wing. Upwind, downwind no problem.
I don't think I can gain much by going to smaller board, same time smaller board may create problems - complicating start, loosing ability come back without swimming if wind drops ...
BTW: a lot of people praising downwind boards for ability to get up really fast and easy - we are talking here about 7 - 8 foot long boards! Where is the windage?

DW boards have a pointy nose,very little width and chunky thickness...makes a very inneficient foil shape to create down&leeward lift.
Compare that to a square nosed, thin, curved bottom&flattop typical wingboard.
The cross section that the apparent wind flows up&under is a very nice wing shape.

mcrt's post above is my experience going from a 4'11'' wing board to a 6'3" Sunova DW board -- the DW board feels like much less windage going upwind -- I think because it is narrower, thinner, and has a pointy nose. The foil is much further from the tail, so I have not felt any big loss in agility. Even in higher winds, it is much easier to start in big steep wind swell because it accelerates and gets on foil so unbelieveably quickly. I've sold my other board and use the DW board for all winging, and am really happy with it.

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Emmett said..

SpokeyDoke said..

I'm looking forward to the next, smaller board just for less windage...

Anyone else?

Comments/insights? I thought this would be discussed more, but I'm not seeing much..

Yeah windage can be an issue. Going upwind, with substantial lean, the aero drag is substantial and in gusty conditions you can easily feel the board windage with foil pitch instability. Beam reaching it still happens but downwind the apparent wind speed is too light and board rides flatter. We only have to carry the board on land in strong winds to grasp the significance of the wind force on a tilted board.

BUT, the gusts should always drive the nose down, due to the heel angle of the board and apparent wind coming in from the side/top and hitting the deck. Unless your board-mast angle has the nose way up. But that's unlikely.

If you have to push the front foot down harder only when going upwind, then something else might be happening.

Any free-play in any of your foil bolt joins?

Are your front and rear foils kinda matched in size? If your rear foil is not sized or angle setup to pull a big front foil out of a dive, then you might have the mast abnormally far forward in board tracks.

Is it the same on both tacks? I'm wondering if you have excessive yaw which is generating too much lift off your mast with high lean angles.

Another possibility is that your sail is so inefficient at generating forward drive going upwind that you have much of your body weight hanging off the sail and not much weight pushing through your feet. When you have an upwind efficient sail (plus properly functioning foils) you could/should notice consistent front-rear feet weighting going upwind to downwind. Wing-sails differ heaps in upwind perf and you might have a "super-dog"! LOL! Any idea what is your typical upwind speed range and true wind angle?

Super thoughtful and insightful...thanks.

I also have to out myself as noticing this while using a foil drive as an efoil and going from straight down wind then turning up and heading into the wind and flattening out to go upwind...this rather than a reach with a bit of lean to winward that would help keep the board down...

I am loving the foil drive as a learning tool to get lots of extra time on foil starting out...