Hi I am at the early stages of learning. I have only a few prolonged flights under my belt.
My issues is within a second or two of most takeoffs I bear off the wind abruptly and foil out.
I suspect that I have a bad habit from windsurfing and it's to do with my hands and or feet, but I happens so quick I haven't worked it out.
Thanks

Hi!
Not easy to say with ur vague description. The most windsurfers step back as they used to on windsurf board and then the foil breach out. But the moment u pop up u have to weigh forward to pick up speed and go forward.

This video by Alan Cadiz might help.

Have you windfoiled? If not, I reckon Driks is onto it.

Difficult to say, but I'm guessing you are hanging off the wing too much causing the board to shoot away once it lifts. Focus on keeping your weight above the board and not hanging back too much. If possible I'd advise you to take a couple of lessons, a good instructor can help a great deal!

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tvesurf said..
Difficult to say, but I'm guessing you are hanging off the wing too much causing the board to shoot away once it lifts. Focus on keeping your weight above the board and not hanging back too much. If possible I'd advise you to take a couple of lessons, a good instructor can help a great deal!

Thanks, I think you are spot on, likely its pulling in on the wing as i dont have enough wind in it. I have had a couple of lessons and had a prolonged flight last time, i just don't know what i was doing different. But definately think im pulling in and maybe leaning back.

Thanks

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NickN said..
This video by Alan Cadiz might help.

this is great thanks Nick, exactly whats going on

Front foot pressure. You don't press the back foot to start flying, you release the pressure on the front.

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NickN said..
This video by Alan Cadiz might help.

That is certainly one of the best winging learner videos ever made.

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Grantmac said..
You don't press the back foot to start flying, you release the pressure on the front.

That would not apply in all cases or setups. eg. no front foot pressure exists to release.

To bring the nose up: Which foot does what depends on the board buoyancy, where you stand, the position of the foil vs your feet. Which can be anything, including rider preference. If foot pressure doesn't feel comfortable when coming up on the foil, then change the position of your feet and/or mast. Think and fix. Don't repeat and try harder.

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tvesurf said..
Difficult to say, but I'm guessing you are hanging off the wing too much causing the board to shoot away once it lifts. Focus on keeping your weight above the board and not hanging back too much. If possible I'd advise you to take a couple of lessons, a good instructor can help a great deal!

Thanks so much for all the advice. I went out again today and it clicked. Able to go on long 3 minute+ flights on both tacks/ upwind and downwind.
You were right about hanging of the wing. I had been going out without enough power and trying to muscle it. I am also taking time to get used to the front foot pressure.

Does the foiling get more fun as you get on to smaller wings? I was on a 2400 front wing and 6.5m wing this morning and maybe because it all clicked quite easily I just didn't get the same rush I would windsurfing in 20kts.

Thanks again for the advice

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windsurftom said..

tvesurf said..
Difficult to say, but I'm guessing you are hanging off the wing too much causing the board to shoot away once it lifts. Focus on keeping your weight above the board and not hanging back too much. If possible I'd advise you to take a couple of lessons, a good instructor can help a great deal!

Thanks so much for all the advice. I went out again today and it clicked. Able to go on long 3 minute+ flights on both tacks/ upwind and downwind.
You were right about hanging of the wing. I had been going out without enough power and trying to muscle it. I am also taking time to get used to the front foot pressure.

Does the foiling get more fun as you get on to smaller wings? I was on a 2400 front wing and 6.5m wing this morning and maybe because it all clicked quite easily I just didn't get the same rush I would windsurfing in 20kts.

Thanks again for the advice

Yes, it does get a lot more fun. Compare it to your beginner steps windsurfing versus full planning. In the beginning I had to force myself going foiling instead of windsurfing, now I love both (depending on conditions which one I prefer).

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windsurftom said..

tvesurf said..
Difficult to say, but I'm guessing you are hanging off the wing too much causing the board to shoot away once it lifts. Focus on keeping your weight above the board and not hanging back too much. If possible I'd advise you to take a couple of lessons, a good instructor can help a great deal!

Thanks so much for all the advice. I went out again today and it clicked. Able to go on long 3 minute+ flights on both tacks/ upwind and downwind.
You were right about hanging of the wing. I had been going out without enough power and trying to muscle it. I am also taking time to get used to the front foot pressure.

Does the foiling get more fun as you get on to smaller wings? I was on a 2400 front wing and 6.5m wing this morning and maybe because it all clicked quite easily I just didn't get the same rush I would windsurfing in 20kts.

Thanks again for the advice

It definitely get more fun! Currently on a 1200 and it is a lot quicker and a lot more agile than the old 1700 I was foiling on. I feel like the added speed lets me try a lot more manoeuvres than I could before. Also my tacks greatly improved as well.

What got me into winging was a 2 week period of 15-17kts northerly winds which makes my local wave spot useless(only works with SW which is prevalent). Only place I could go was the local lake nearby, but flat water doesn't do it for me anymore. Once I hooked up my first jibe at the end of week 1 I was hooked on winging. If its under 22kts I'll go winging and above I go wavesailing. Currently till working up the courage to go winging at sea.

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windsurftom said..
Does the foiling get more fun as you get on to smaller wings? I was on a 2400 front wing and 6.5m wing this morning and maybe because it all clicked quite easily I just didn't get the same rush I would windsurfing in 20kts.

Yes, as your skills evolve, smaller foils should be more fun. I tried to find your body weight above, but don't see it. In any case, 2400 is very big, and will be very slow without a lot of drive force pushing it.

A consequence of lift is drag. Let's assume we compare foils of the same general design/shape and the only difference is the size...

As a general rule, if you can get up on foil too easily, then the foil is too big for you. Because once you are up, that big foil has way too much drag and just wants to slow down. So your arms will get pulled much harder in strong winds and in light winds the big foil just wants to slow down and stop. You never get any moment to relax and enjoy the flow. You will "bag out" your sails sooner. Plus the bigger foil will have a wider span, so it'll resist roll much more, and that means you need to apply much more pressure to each side to begin/end carve turns. And ... a foil that is too big will glide less, so in lighter winds you will have to pump more often across lulls, when the right foil for you will glide across without you doing anything.

On the other hand, if you can rarely get up on the foil, then the foil is probably too small for you. Not foiling is disappointing and working extra hard to get up, or a need to focus too much on maintaining high speed thru tacks or gybes, can also take away some fun.

So there is a right size foil for your skills, your target riding type and the choice of board and sail and the conditions.

PS. Don't forget that lift-drag depends on more than simply the projected area. The aspect ratio (AR) and the foil cross-section each make a big difference. And some foil designs are far more versatile or very application specific.

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Does the foiling get more fun as you get on to smaller wings?

Yes! More fun on smaller Wings as well as smaller foils I have found more fun.

I started a few months ago and regarding wings, the bigger wind wings make it easier to learn, less pumping trying to get up in marginal conditions and more time on foil on those days vs waiting for gusts to get up because of average beginner technique.. This is more fun in terms that the wing is easier to manipulate which makes larger carving turns up and down more fun as you are less restricted by the sail and smaller wings make gybes easier as it's more forgiving and lighter/smaller/easier.. but really I've found you need whatever wing and foil size is required for your current technique to get up on foil and going, that is most important when learning vs one good gybe and 5 mins pumping and wasting energy and waiting to get on foil..

Regarding foils I have started on a 1300 front foil (duotone glide) and that has worked well for learning. I recently tried a ~1000 foiland wow what a difference, it was easier to turn, easier to gybe, faster, more stable feeling at speed with less flagging of an overpowered wing/sail, the only drawback for me was it was just harder to get up on the foil if the wind dropped.. I've started going a smaller foil vs a smaller sail now as the wind increases which was not intuitive for me originally. Can't wait to improve and try other sizes.

Select to expand quote

Does the foiling get more fun as you get on to smaller wings?

Yes! More fun on smaller Wings as well as smaller foils I have also found more fun.

I started a few months ago and regarding wings, the bigger wind wings make it easier to learn, less pumping trying to get up in marginal conditions and more time on foil on those days vs waiting for gusts to get up because of average beginner technique.. Smaller wings are more fun in terms that the wing is easier to manipulate which makes larger carving turns up and down more fun as you are less restricted by the sail and smaller wings make gybes easier as it's more forgiving and lighter/smaller/easier.. but really I've found you need whatever wing and foil size is required for your current technique to get up on foil and going, that is most important when learning vs one good gybe and 5 mins pumping and wasting energy and waiting to get on foil..

Regarding foils I have started on a 1300 front foil (duotone glide, I'm 90kg) and that has worked well for learning. I recently tried a ~1000 foiland wow what a difference, it was easier to turn, easier to gybe, faster, more stable feeling at speed with less flagging of an overpowered wing/sail, the only drawback for me was it was just harder to get up on the foil if the wind dropped.. I've started going a smaller foil vs a smaller sail/wing now as the wind increases which was not intuitive for me originally. Can't wait to improve and try other sizes.

First thing to get someone to check for you, is if you're mast is in the right place relative to you're standing position or vice versa.

Sometimes I go to a lake where there are lots of learners who always have mast/feet wrong and wonder why they can't get on foil or immediately foil out. I always correct for them and everyone is always shocked by the difference it makes.